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7TIMECHAMPS
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:58 am

Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:54 pm

Schotzy wrote:
keepyourheadup wrote:I think the supportive fan base in GF is a great thing and they should be super proud of Sioux hockey but gosh darn it’s like packer fans, in the solar system of college hockey they seem to think they are the sun! It isn’t always about you!
This part is so true. Thanks for that. I am a UMD fan, grew up a Gopher fan, went to SCSU. Been watching the Fighting Hawks (purposeful) fans be complete tools all my life. Not all of them, but most. I will say they have an amazing tradition, they have proven they can be successful, and their fanbase travels incredibly well.....but what else do they have to do? Just like Packer fans. Be proud of your program, but you don't have to be a d**k about it.

In truth, all of this is great news for NCAA Hockey. I live in a hockey bubble, so I can not speak with any certainty, but I think the power of the conferences out East, plus the established strength of the NCHA, plus the emergence of what I see as a very strong B1G conference, equals nothing but a larger and more engaged fan base. This is great news!

There was no way the B1G was going to stay down for long. It took a couple of years, but the B1G has shown they are going to be contenders. There is WAY too much money among those schools. The Schools, The Facilities, The Boosters, The Coaches, all of these things contribute to their future success.
You say you went to SCSU and are a UMD fan so why don't you enlighten everyone on the great things that Duluth/St Cloud and their schools have that UND/Grand Forks is gravely missing. I just want to know all these things to do so that next time I visit I can check them out. I mean as far as sports I would have guessed UND's D1 basketball and football would be a bigger draw than anything those other two cities have but clearly I am missing something.

keepyourheadup
Posts: 1100
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Post by keepyourheadup » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:06 pm

Spot on Schotzy ! Now for clairifaction, 2102/13 U of M shared the title with St. Cloud. The Sioux finished just 2 points back and the U was a 1 seed and was upset by Yale. Yale went on a historic run which just goes to show that the ECAC is also a good conference. As for Minnesota fans saying we get who ever we choose....that hasn’t been the case for years. Anybody that thinks otherwise just isn’t paying attention or doesn’t follow college hockey very closely. I’m assuming I’m not the pot in your example, I’m a gopher fan who has always admired the UND program, it’s their overly sensitive goofball fans....I realize it’s not ALL of them, that want to perpetuate this conference strength myth. Like I said, let it go! There is high end college puck all across our country, not just your beloved NACHO!

keepyourheadup
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Post by keepyourheadup » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:26 pm

And to clarify further....Minnesota also was league champ in 2011-2012. Beat ND in the regional that year.

Slap Shot
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Post by Slap Shot » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:30 pm

Fawker fans (i.e.) Fighting Halo fans. Always precious little angels in their own minds they make Packer fans look sober, quiet and sports literate. :P

7TIMECHAMPS
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:58 am

Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:03 pm

keepyourheadup wrote:And to clarify further....Minnesota also was league champ in 2011-2012. Beat ND in the regional that year.
Usually "the champ" is who wins the post season tournament not the regular season (ex. section champ, state champ, national champ). I would not consider St Cloud the champ of college hockey.

Point taken that Minnesota has had some good teams recently. Never disputed that. The Big 10 had a nice showing at the national tournament this year. No doubt about that either. However, objectively speaking I do not feel that the Big 10 is on par with the NCHC at this point. If they sustain the success they had this year in the tournament then sure they are. What I am saying is in the next few years go out and prove this year wasn't a fluke. I need to see more than one year. I would say the same thing about individual programs. For example I would not say Air Force's hockey program is better than UM's based off of this year's result. To support these statement's let's take a look at some results in the NCAA tournament since the split.

National Champions:
NCHC-3 out of the last 5 including the last 3 consecutive.
Big 10-0

Appearances in the Frozen 4:
NCHC-8
Big 10-4(3 this year)

Last time a current Big 10 team won a national title-Wisconsin 2006

My point is this. On any given day could a Big 10 team beat a NCHC team? Obviously. And could the Big 10 be improving and be equally as successful as the NCHC someday? It is possible. But to start calling everyone d**ks and tools because they say the NCHC is a better conference is just irresponsible.

keepyourheadup
Posts: 1100
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:07 pm

Post by keepyourheadup » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:16 pm

So league champions ships don’t count, first time I heard that , thank you! It’s simply too small a sample size. Was there a bit of a down turn the first couple years of the big 10? I think the answer to that is clearly yes. That’s over. Michigan has righted the ship, Wisconsin is building a power house. Penn State and Notre Dame are now players on a national level. Research recruiting info, become aware of the quality players the league is now attracting, The U is going to have their hands full every year competing in the big 10. Some unfortunate timing occurred back at the split as many big 10 teams were either just starting or were in a down cycle, IMO that’s simply not the case anymore. If nothing else Duluth’s success is a perfect example of how close all the conferences are. SCSU and Denver crap the bed while The dogs squeak in, get hot and win it. So, if it makes you feel better thinking the NACHO is the best....great, it just isn’t true.

7TIMECHAMPS
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Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:39 pm

You must live in WBL or something then. I never said it meant nothing but most people’s measuring stick of success is the post season......And the “down years” you are referring to are literally every year other than this year. So I guess we agree on that. I am not saying that this can’t be the start of something and they become a consistently equal conference with the NCHC going forward. I am saying it hasn’t been the case so far. Look at the facts.

Schotzy
Posts: 192
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Post by Schotzy » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:16 pm

7TIMECHAMPS wrote:But to start calling everyone d**ks and tools because they say the NCHC is a better conference is just irresponsible.
Oh, I was not calling "everyone" that.

.....make your own conclusion.

warriors41
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Post by warriors41 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:17 pm

A few posters have referred to UND as the Fawker's but their fans are the most unbearable ones? That's neat logic.

As someone who graduated from Bemidji State I always thought that Gopher fans were the most annoying for hockey.

zamboniexhaustinhaler
Posts: 257
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Post by zamboniexhaustinhaler » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:32 am

To funny. Sounds like when people argue about their favorite politician. And very similar in another way; neither the politicians or any school gives a rats behind about any of us.
Yet people defend them both like they're some close relative that is getting insulted.

:lol:

keepyourheadup
Posts: 1100
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Post by keepyourheadup » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:32 am

Maybe I’m not most people! Best college team I ever watched was the Sioux team with Frattin, they didn’t win it! You need to understand the best team in the country rarely wins the national title! Duncan toews, paresi couldn’t get it done either. In the one and done all bets are off, how often does the favorite win? You just really don’t have a clue, I’m done

keepyourheadup
Posts: 1100
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Post by keepyourheadup » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:24 am

And again, for clarification. Would every other year include Minnesota beating ND in Philly, that’s one of those years. Bottom line NACHO is good, from today forward so is the big 10. I

7TIMECHAMPS
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Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:53 pm

I don't have a clue? Let's look at your beloved regular season Big 10 championships. They won 4 in a row. Any chance they win 4 consecutive regular season championships in the NCHC? I don't think so. And what would be the reason for that? I will let you draw your own conclusion since apparently I don't have a clue.

Read my earlier post where I state that I am not arguing that a Big 10 team couldn't beat an NCHC team on any given night. That's absurd. I am also not arguing that Minnesota has had no good teams since joining the Big 10. (The game you picked in Philly was the ONE frozen four appearance by a Big 10 team prior to this year by the way). I am looking at results in the aggregate. You claimed that I have too small of a sample size, which may be true. However, it is the only sample size we have and it is a lot larger sample size than the one year you are basing your conclusions off of.

Regarding your post about the best team in the country rarely wins it all you will have to clear that one up for me. Are you saying the Big 10 has had more good teams than the NCHC that just haven't gotten the job done? Or are you saying that the NCHC has gotten lucky in the national tournament? By the way the seedings do not support either statement.

One last piece of logic I will point out from a previous post that makes no sense. You said the Bulldogs winning the championship is evidence of the conferences being so close. Are you sure that isn't evidence of how deep the NCHC is with quality teams instead?

As I have stated several times the Big 10 could be improving and pull even with the NCHC in the future. I am not going to pretend I am a scout like you and say school X or school Y has more or less talent coming into the program(which hopefully the "powerhouse" building kids that Wisconsin has coming in don't pull a Boeser and go to ND!). And if I was, based solely on MN, I would say that team is Duluth. That being said if you think the Big 10 and NCHC have been equal conferences to date I just can't help you.

I have posted far too much on this topic and would also like this to come to a conclusion, so I think I will wrap up my posting on this topic as well. As soon as I post this I am going to go set an alert on my stub hub account to get some Gopher tickets when they come out. Any team that could routinely beat up on the likes of ND, Denver, St Cloud, UMD, and UNO to take home 4 consecutive conference championships(since they are even) I have to see.

WarmUpTheBus
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Post by WarmUpTheBus » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:54 pm

keepyourheadup wrote:Maybe I’m not most people! Best college team I ever watched was the Sioux team with Frattin, they didn’t win it! You need to understand the best team in the country rarely wins the national title! Duncan toews, paresi couldn’t get it done either. In the one and done all bets are off, how often does the favorite win? You just really don’t have a clue, I’m done
Parise

Corn Cobb
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Location: Hill City, SD

Post by Corn Cobb » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:06 pm

Vanek > Parise ????

BodyShots
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Post by BodyShots » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:38 pm

7TIMECHAMPS wrote: One last piece of logic I will point out from a previous post that makes no sense. You said the Bulldogs winning the championship is evidence of the conferences being so close. Are you sure that isn't evidence of how deep the NCHC is with quality teams instead?
:lol: :lol: Your killing me. Reading all of our reply's is making me laugh to the point of tears.

How does Duluth winning the NCAA show evidence of how deep the NCHC is? Look at it this way. The B1G had 5 out of seven teams make the tournament with a 6th team just being edged out on the last day when 6 game results all went against them. 2 of those teams were #1 seeds and 3 of them made the final 4. That my friend shows depth!

Corn Cobb
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Post by Corn Cobb » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:50 pm

BodyShots wrote:
7TIMECHAMPS wrote: One last piece of logic I will point out from a previous post that makes no sense. You said the Bulldogs winning the championship is evidence of the conferences being so close. Are you sure that isn't evidence of how deep the NCHC is with quality teams instead?
:lol: :lol: Your killing me. Reading all of our reply's is making me laugh to the point of tears.

How does Duluth winning the NCAA show evidence of how deep the NCHC is? Look at it this way. The B1G had 5 out of seven teams make the tournament with a 6th team just being edged out on the last day when 6 game results all went against them. 2 of those teams were #1 seeds and 3 of them made the final 4. That my friend shows depth!
Perhaps, he thinks the NCHC shows depth in that 5 of the 8 teams had losing records in conference play. (sarcasm)

Slap Shot
Posts: 548
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Post by Slap Shot » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:50 pm

7TIMECHAMPS wrote:I don't have a clue? Let's look at your beloved regular season Big 10 championships. They won 4 in a row. Any chance they win 4 consecutive regular season championships in the NCHC? I don't think so.
Possibly not but they did win the last 2 of the former WCHA. Additionally it's pretty short-sighted to have expected UM, UW and UMi to remain at the levels they dropped to the previous 3 seasons for an extended period given their histories. With OSU and PSU demonstrating they're all in on hockey, have legit coaches and are showing consistency, and with the addition of Notre Dame showing similar promise it seems to reason the conference should be expected to be a contender and not a pretender more often than not.

7TIMECHAMPS
Posts: 66
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Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:55 am

Corn Cobb wrote:
BodyShots wrote:
7TIMECHAMPS wrote: One last piece of logic I will point out from a previous post that makes no sense. You said the Bulldogs winning the championship is evidence of the conferences being so close. Are you sure that isn't evidence of how deep the NCHC is with quality teams instead?
:lol: :lol: Your killing me. Reading all of our reply's is making me laugh to the point of tears.

How does Duluth winning the NCAA show evidence of how deep the NCHC is? Look at it this way. The B1G had 5 out of seven teams make the tournament with a 6th team just being edged out on the last day when 6 game results all went against them. 2 of those teams were #1 seeds and 3 of them made the final 4. That my friend shows depth!
Perhaps, he thinks the NCHC shows depth in that 5 of the 8 teams had losing records in conference play. (sarcasm)
Wow the intelligence in this comment is almost astonishing (sarcasm). How do inter conference records prove anything in comparison to other conferences? They are playing each other you do realize that? If you have 6 of 8 teams that have wining records in a conference that doesn’t mean anything other than you have two really terrible teams in the conference. You could have eight really good teams in a conference and eight really bad teams in another conference and you wouldn’t be able to tell anything by just comparing inter conference records. Zero sum game bud. Simple math. I shouldn’t even say this because I know how useless it is when comparing conferences but the Big 10 had four of seven teams with losing records and Michigan 11-10 so just barely a winning record. However that means nothing so probably shouldn’t even mention it.

I have said many times that the Big 10 had a nice showing at the tournament this year. Taking third in your conference and winning the national championship does show some depth however. At least it has more correlation to NCHC depth than it does Big 10 depth like was originally stated.

I can say it one more time so that hopefully nobody else has to come on here and tell me how great of a year the Big 10 had. They had a good year. The success could continue in future I also said that. My point was that saying you have arrived and are a premium hockey conference after one good year seems a bit premature. Prior years don’t support the Big 10 being a top conference. (Again emphasis on a larger sample size than this year)

7TIMECHAMPS
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Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:03 am

Maybe I should have instead asked who had the better in conference winning percentage the Big 10 or NCHC? That would decide who is better right? (Hint: sorry it is a tie at .500)

keepyourheadup
Posts: 1100
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Post by keepyourheadup » Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:55 am

I’m with you slap, prior to this year it’s my belief that the performance of the Big10 was the result of some fairly rare things all happening simultaneously. I guess only time will tell but I expect them to be very competitive pretty much every year. Will they have 3 teams at the frozen Four? Not likely but as stated earlier in the thread the recruiting advantages the big10 has will allow them to stay highly competitive. The NCHC is a powerhouse for sure but as I stated previously moving forward I think we’ll see the big10 right with them.

My Duluth reference was more to demonstrate how unpredictable the NCAA tourney is. Yale, Holy Cross ,RIT, Duluth all 16 seeds in fairly recent memory to make a huge impact in the one and done format.

keepyourheadup
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Post by keepyourheadup » Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:57 am

I guess Duluth was actually the 13 or 14 seed but last to get in.

WestMetro
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Post by WestMetro » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:36 pm

This thread now so complicated and confusing that I gave up reading it!

(even though i think i have might have thrown out an early opinion to add to the confusion!)

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