Is Greenway turning into Hermantown?

[bardown27]

If Ville (goalie) can return I think Greenway will have a good shot at beating Hermantown. Without him or a vastly improved JV goalie it will be very difficult to beat Hermantown.

He will be back. Already a done deal.

You are right. Ville and mom will be living in Bovey. Greenway should be competitive with every A team and even some AA teams. Greenway will find out fast if they will compete when they play Mound and Chaska the first weekend on the road.

I'm not sold on Mound yet. Of all their scorers over 10 points last year (11 of them) only one was not a senior. They graduate a lot of points. They also graduate one of their two goalies. It will be interesting to see if they roll with one goalie, and if he can handle the entire load of games, unlike last year where they split.

On the other hand, I agree on the early test of Chaska. Chaska will be a fun team to watch and could make some noise in section 2AA. Of all their scorers over 10 points last year (10 of them) they return all but one (Mason Kulics is a senior), hopefully will have a healthy Blaine Warnert, and return Bach in net who played the majority of the minutes.

[SpOilerfan]

Pretty quiet up here.

Smalley is returning to Cloquet to the relief of many, look for former Fairbanks coach(West) to take over at St Scholastica

[SpOilerfan]

Pretty quiet up here.

Smalley is returning to Cloquet to the relief of many, look for former Fairbanks coach(West) to take over at St Scholastica

Hey folks, here's my latest intel on the CSS job. First, not sure if SP is hearing that Lance (West) is the favorite based on his own info or, just trusts me that much BUT... my latest info is that Lance did not make the final cut -- heard he pulled out based on the pay. Heard that a few of the others I mentioned previously removed their names for that reason as well. Latest I've heard is they were down to 4 finalists. Current assistant Shawn Bartlette, Minnesota Wilderness Head Coach Tim Madsen, Sjhon Podein, and I believe the current Head Coach of Concordia Univ. Wisconsin, Jasen Wise. Extremely confident on the first three. However, I'm going to give myself a possible out on the last one as it's been a solid week since I heard my latest info and I may have the wrong NCHA school/coach. Obviously, if Lance West has dropped out, what I was told about him being the leading candidate wasn't accurate so, although I really trust my latest source you just never know... In case some are wondering about the fact some candidates may have removed themselves from consideration due to possible issues with salary, I was told the possible salary range was between $45,000 and $70,000 depending on the experience of the selected individual. For those that aren't familiar, that's pretty much in line with what other schools at this level and in this league are paying, outside of someone like Tim Coughlin at St. Norberts who I'm pretty sure is over $100K.

Great info, my sources say West and a few others did not like the salary structure or the added duties. For what its worth Smalley was the only current or ex high school coach that they looked at with any interest at all. I know others applied in addition to him and several called inquiring and kevin was the only one that they really took a look at

[greenwayraider]

Odds look pretty good that Greenway is going to get two more kids moving in. Will know for sure about one of them later this week. I have mixed feelings about this. Certainly want Greenway to be a great team but it doesn't feel quite right to get all of these "imports". Unfortunately that's how high school hockey is now-a-days.

[Rocketwrister]

Odds look pretty good that Greenway is going to get two more kids moving in. Will know for sure about one of them later this week. I have mixed feelings about this. Certainly want Greenway to be a great team but it doesn't feel quite right to get all of these "imports". Unfortunately that's how high school hockey is now-a-days.

Really? Where are the kids coming from? What's the draw, academics?

[greenwayraider]

One from an Iron Range school and one from out of the area. That's all I care to say at this point until it's a fact. Of course it's because of academics.

[ironranger2]

A few people from Hibbing said a senior to be from Hibbing is going over. Parents bought a house in the Greenway school district. Not sure about the out of area one.

[greenwayraider]

That’s Birdsall and the family has indeed purchased a home in the Greenway district. The Range kid I’m referring to is in addition to Birdsall.

[kniven]

Odds look pretty good that Greenway is going to get two more kids moving in. Will know for sure about one of them later this week. I have mixed feelings about this. Certainly want Greenway to be a great team but it doesn't feel quite right to get all of these "imports". Unfortunately that's how high school hockey is now-a-days.

excellent! great news for greenway hockey! these days you have to have this to succeed...

[kniven]

Odds look pretty good that Greenway is going to get two more kids moving in. Will know for sure about one of them later this week. I have mixed feelings about this. Certainly want Greenway to be a great team but it doesn't feel quite right to get all of these "imports". Unfortunately that's how high school hockey is now-a-days.

excellent! great news for greenway hockey! these days you have to have this to succeed...

And Hibbing hockey is truly a feeder to every high school hockey program but Hibbing high school hockey. Sad but true. https://youtu.be/O_4OfD-wmGs

[pekyman]

Odds look pretty good that Greenway is going to get two more kids moving in. Will know for sure about one of them later this week. I have mixed feelings about this. Certainly want Greenway to be a great team but it doesn't feel quite right to get all of these "imports". Unfortunately that's how high school hockey is now-a-days.

excellent! great news for greenway hockey! these days you have to have this to succeed...

And Hibbing hockey is truly a feeder to every high school hockey program but Hibbing high school hockey. Sad but true. https://youtu.be/O_4OfD-wmGs

And it is nobody’s fault but Hibbing’s. Got an earful from Hibbing parents back when Adam Johnson almost single handedly beat Hermantown in the state semi-final game back in 2011. None of the parents were happy with the Hibbing hockey “program” and the lack of any off season or summer hockey “program”. Would love to see Hibbing get their program back on track but it doesn’t look like that is happening.

[zooomx]

Odds look pretty good that Greenway is going to get two more kids moving in. Will know for sure about one of them later this week. I have mixed feelings about this. Certainly want Greenway to be a great team but it doesn't feel quite right to get all of these "imports". Unfortunately that's how high school hockey is now-a-days.

excellent! great news for greenway hockey! these days you have to have this to succeed...

Alexandria begs to differ.

[BSUBeaver]

Odds look pretty good that Greenway is going to get two more kids moving in. Will know for sure about one of them later this week. I have mixed feelings about this. Certainly want Greenway to be a great team but it doesn't feel quite right to get all of these "imports". Unfortunately that's how high school hockey is now-a-days.

excellent! great news for greenway hockey! these days you have to have this to succeed...

Alexandria begs to differ.

Agreed!

[Goose21]

Odds look pretty good that Greenway is going to get two more kids moving in. Will know for sure about one of them later this week. I have mixed feelings about this. Certainly want Greenway to be a great team but it doesn't feel quite right to get all of these "imports". Unfortunately that's how high school hockey is now-a-days.

excellent! great news for greenway hockey! these days you have to have this to succeed...

I think it depends on what section you are in and on an individual's definition of "success" .

[greenwayraider]

excellent! great news for greenway hockey! these days you have to have this to succeed...

Alexandria begs to differ.

Agreed!

Found some interesting facts. Enrollment:

Greenway 269
Alexandria 1120
Grand Rapids 972
Cloquet-Esko-Carlton 1079
(594+346+139)
Bemidji 1179
Roseau 305

Alexandria has approximately four times the enrollment of Greenway. It would be interesting to see what kind of team Alexandria would put on the ice if their enrollment was 1/4 of what it currently is. Also, they have a larger enrollment than Grand Rapids and CEC. Makes me wonder why they don't opt up. I know Greenway would if their enrollment was 1120. I would also add that the socio-economic make-up of the two districts are very different. I think Alexandria deserves a lot of respect for the program they have developed and for beating Hermantown at state. Although I'm not sure how many state championships banners Alexandria has hanging in their arena.

[Stang5280]

Greenway 269
Alexandria 1120
Grand Rapids 972
Cloquet-Esko-Carlton 1079
(594+346+139)
Bemidji 1179
Roseau 305

Alexandria has approximately four times the enrollment of Greenway. It would be interesting to see what kind of team Alexandria would put on the ice if their enrollment was 1/4 of what it currently is. Also, they have a larger enrollment than Grand Rapids and CEC. Makes me wonder why they don't opt up. I know Greenway would if their enrollment was 1120. I would also add that the socio-economic make-up of the two districts are very different. I think Alexandria deserves a lot of respect for the program they have developed and for beating Hermantown at state. Although I'm not sure how many state championships banners Alexandria has hanging in their arena.

Are we seriously bringing this topic up again?! Yes, Alexandria is one of the larger schools in Class A, and just finished a great tournament run in which they knocked off the hated Hermantown Hawks. But Alex didn’t even win the tournament, for crying out loud, and it was the first time the Cardinals had ever advanced past the QF round at state. And now you are already suggesting that they opt up to AA?

Alex has only been to state five times in the school’s history (one of which was Tier 2, which really doesn’t even count), the last trip being in 2011. It doesn’t have nearly the hockey tradition of programs like Greenway, Rapids, Roseau, etc., and was a complete non-factor in the sport until building some momentum in the 1990s. Heck, Alexandria won’t even be the favorite in its own section going into next season. The enrollment cutoff exists for a reason, and suggesting that every A program that experiences even a modicum of success should opt up brings us closer to returning to the dreaded two-tier format. Let Alexandria enjoy their successful season and see where the program goes from here. If the enrollment continues to grow, things will take care of themselves organically, and Alex will have to compete at the AA level.

[Jeffy95]

Greenway 269
Alexandria 1120
Grand Rapids 972
Cloquet-Esko-Carlton 1079
(594+346+139)
Bemidji 1179
Roseau 305

Alexandria has approximately four times the enrollment of Greenway. It would be interesting to see what kind of team Alexandria would put on the ice if their enrollment was 1/4 of what it currently is. Also, they have a larger enrollment than Grand Rapids and CEC. Makes me wonder why they don't opt up. I know Greenway would if their enrollment was 1120. I would also add that the socio-economic make-up of the two districts are very different. I think Alexandria deserves a lot of respect for the program they have developed and for beating Hermantown at state. Although I'm not sure how many state championships banners Alexandria has hanging in their arena.

Are we seriously bringing this topic up again?! Yes, Alexandria is one of the larger schools in Class A, and just finished a great tournament run in which they knocked off the hated Hermantown Hawks. But Alex didn’t even win the tournament, for crying out loud, and it was the first time the Cardinals had ever advanced past the QF round at state. And now you are already suggesting that they opt up to AA?

Alex has only been to state five times in the school’s history (one of which was Tier 2, which really doesn’t even count), the last trip being in 2011. It doesn’t have nearly the hockey tradition of programs like Greenway, Rapids, Roseau, etc., and was a complete non-factor in the sport until building some momentum in the 1990s. Heck, Alexandria won’t even be the favorite in its own section going into next season. The enrollment cutoff exists for a reason, and suggesting that every A program that experiences even a modicum of success should opt up brings us closer to returning to the dreaded two-tier format. Let Alexandria enjoy their successful season and see where the program goes from here. If the enrollment continues to grow, things will take care of themselves organically, and Alex will have to compete at the AA level.

Have to give the Greenway folks a pass on this topic. They opted up until they absolutely couldn't, and would do anything to be able to opt up again.

But you are correct. Enrollment means nothing in Hockey anymore. If it did, we would see Minneapolis in the tourney every year.

[zooomx]

Alexandria begs to differ.

Agreed!

Found some interesting facts. Enrollment:

Greenway 269
Alexandria 1120
Grand Rapids 972
Cloquet-Esko-Carlton 1079
(594+346+139)
Bemidji 1179
Roseau 305

Alexandria has approximately four times the enrollment of Greenway. It would be interesting to see what kind of team Alexandria would put on the ice if their enrollment was 1/4 of what it currently is. Also, they have a larger enrollment than Grand Rapids and CEC. Makes me wonder why they don't opt up. I know Greenway would if their enrollment was 1120. I would also add that the socio-economic make-up of the two districts are very different. I think Alexandria deserves a lot of respect for the program they have developed and for beating Hermantown at state. Although I'm not sure how many state championships banners Alexandria has hanging in their arena.

Wow, and here I thought we had developed a mutual respect. My comments were not a slam on Greenway. It was a response to the "you must recruit to win" comments other people keep posting on this board. I have always shown much respect for Greenway and have rooted for you in 7A.

But I guess this all makes sense. As soon as any program in the state has any sort of success, it is attacked. I guess Alexandria's success is due to enrollment and socio-economic conditions, not the endless hours so many of us have put into the youth and high school programs. Or, the fundraising efforts to raise money for scholarships so that kids of all economic backgrounds can play. Or, a group of coaches who adopted the ADM principles very early and train skaters the right way.

I did predict this. The top 3 teams in Class A will always have a target on their back. I just thought we would not be in the crosshairs until after Hermantown moved up. Ha! Guess I was wrong.

[zooomx]

Greenway 269
Alexandria 1120
Grand Rapids 972
Cloquet-Esko-Carlton 1079
(594+346+139)
Bemidji 1179
Roseau 305

Alexandria has approximately four times the enrollment of Greenway. It would be interesting to see what kind of team Alexandria would put on the ice if their enrollment was 1/4 of what it currently is. Also, they have a larger enrollment than Grand Rapids and CEC. Makes me wonder why they don't opt up. I know Greenway would if their enrollment was 1120. I would also add that the socio-economic make-up of the two districts are very different. I think Alexandria deserves a lot of respect for the program they have developed and for beating Hermantown at state. Although I'm not sure how many state championships banners Alexandria has hanging in their arena.

Are we seriously bringing this topic up again?! Yes, Alexandria is one of the larger schools in Class A, and just finished a great tournament run in which they knocked off the hated Hermantown Hawks. But Alex didn’t even win the tournament, for crying out loud, and it was the first time the Cardinals had ever advanced past the QF round at state. And now you are already suggesting that they opt up to AA?

Alex has only been to state five times in the school’s history (one of which was Tier 2, which really doesn’t even count), the last trip being in 2011. It doesn’t have nearly the hockey tradition of programs like Greenway, Rapids, Roseau, etc., and was a complete non-factor in the sport until building some momentum in the 1990s. Heck, Alexandria won’t even be the favorite in its own section going into next season. The enrollment cutoff exists for a reason, and suggesting that every A program that experiences even a modicum of success should opt up brings us closer to returning to the dreaded two-tier format. Let Alexandria enjoy their successful season and see where the program goes from here. If the enrollment continues to grow, things will take care of themselves organically, and Alex will have to compete at the AA level.

Great post! Let me add this: Alexandria does really well at thinking long term in both youth hockey and high school hockey decisions. The hockey folks here are very determined to make the program strong enough to compete at AA. We have a love/hate relationship with Moorhead. They deserve the respect they have as they have built a powerhouse program. In a way, we envy that and want to someday reach that level. I am no longer directly involved with hockey operations, but I am 100% confident that the program will choose to opt up whenever it makes sense for the kids. We would not wait as long as Hermantown, but we have a ways to go to compete at the AA level year in and year out.

[kniven]

When you put it on paper for the last 10-20 years what Hermantown Hockey has accomplished in the last 20 years in single A, it is stunning how dominate they have been. Youth hockey in AA as well. Maybe I will post the stretch run later on this forum here. And the Elite league number of players they have routinely every year.

[BSUBeaver]

First, full disclosure, I am an Alexandria Cardinal fan and have kids that have just gotten their feet wet in the youth program. Now, onto my thoughts.

I don't have a huge problem with Alexandria, Hermantown, Mahtomedi, Orono, etc., playing at the Class A level. They are playing by the rules and standards that the High School League has set up. The High School League has also said you can petition to opt up if you want, but no where in its bylaws does it say you have to just because you are having success at the Class A level.

Now, what I think rubs people the wrong way (I know it does me somewhat), it the perceived abuse of the "Open Enrollment Policy" that the State of Minnesota has. Even though it is hard to prove, there have been what appears to be very clear cut examples of "recruitment" over the years as programs try to get ahead. This has now lead to examples of programs trying to "keep up with the Joneses". These examples have lead to some success for some schools, at the expense of schools that are, more or less, abiding by the rules. This leads to bitter feelings.

You are seeing it in other sports as well, especially with basketball and the private schools in the Cities. Should a private school that is not bound by residential boundaries and can offer financial aid to prospective students (and athletes) be allowed to play in the class they are assigned to by enrollment? In essence, these schools can go out and "recruit" some of the best athletes from public schools, offer them a financial aid package that makes the private school affordable for the family, and viola, they are in. Is it an abuse of the system? That is up to debate.

Sorry to get off on a tangent there, but to throw Alexandria into the conversation after one successful season, using home grown kids, is a little quick on the draw. If Alexandria had been pulling in kids from other programs, then I could see the angst. But when they have done it with kids that have come through their program, it just doesn't fly with me.

[ThatMNHockeyGuy62]

I don't have a huge problem with Alexandria, Hermantown, Mahtomedi, Orono, etc., playing at the Class A level. They are playing by the rules and standards that the High School League has set up. The High School League has also said you can petition to opt up if you want, but no where in its bylaws does it say you have to just because you are having success at the Class A level.

Now, what I think rubs people the wrong way (I know it does me somewhat), it the perceived abuse of the "Open Enrollment Policy" that the State of Minnesota has. Even though it is hard to prove, there have been what appears to be very clear cut examples of "recruitment" over the years as programs try to get ahead. This has now lead to examples of programs trying to "keep up with the Joneses". These examples have lead to some success for some schools, at the expense of schools that are, more or less, abiding by the rules. This leads to bitter feelings.

You are seeing it in other sports as well, especially with basketball and the private schools in the Cities. Should a private school that is not bound by residential boundaries and can offer financial aid to prospective students (and athletes) be allowed to play in the class they are assigned to by enrollment? In essence, these schools can go out and "recruit" some of the best athletes from public schools, offer them a financial aid package that makes the private school affordable for the family, and viola, they are in. Is it an abuse of the system? That is up to debate.

This is spot on. Alexandria is the team that the Class A system was made for. A smaller public school that can find success against schools of similar size (even if they are at the higher end of Class A enrollment). I know this is an age-old debate, but private school enrollment numbers are irrelevant. Their potential enrollment pool is the entire state, and sometimes even wider (just look at Holy Family's goalie last season from out of state, who basically was the entire team in their section final). I do credit schools like Duluth Marshall, Holy Family, etc who understand this and opt up.

[formersection3Afan]

4 out of 80. That’s a lot of applicants. I think they have a nice hockey program there at CSS.

Tim Madsen is new CSS HC

[Upfan111]

4 out of 80. That’s a lot of applicants. I think they have a nice hockey program there at CSS.

Tim Madsen is new CSS HC

Great hire for CSS! Now that opens another HC coaching position with the Wilderness. Wonder who will apply for that job?

[Usthockey13]

4 out of 80. That’s a lot of applicants. I think they have a nice hockey program there at CSS.

Tim Madsen is new CSS HC

Great hire for CSS! Now that opens another HC coaching position with the Wilderness. Wonder who will apply for that job?

Smalley?