Page 6 of 7

Re: 7A - Thoughts

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:14 am
by BeauKnowsHockey
greenwayraider wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 7:52 am
That makes them the largest Class A school in the Section. This will certainly make them a contender for the #2 seed every year. The downside is that you cut in half the number of kids that will be playing high school hockey. I also wonder how this will affect the youth hockey programs at each community. Will they combine too?
These are my thoughts and questions exactly.

Re: 7A - Thoughts

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:59 am
by rainier2
BeauKnowsHockey wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 9:14 am
greenwayraider wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 7:52 am
That makes them the largest Class A school in the Section. This will certainly make them a contender for the #2 seed every year. The downside is that you cut in half the number of kids that will be playing high school hockey. I also wonder how this will affect the youth hockey programs at each community. Will they combine too?
These are my thoughts and questions exactly.
My gut feeling is that the combining will have a positive synergistic effect. Both programs just became stronger, which I imagine will encourage more participation, especially if/when Hermantown goes to AA and VMIBEGME starts making it to state. That's why I had thought there could be a future in AA for this new team. VMIB occasionally beats GR on their own (GR is 5-2 vs VMIB the last 6 years, and just a hair away in this year's game from it being 4-3), so adding in EGME could eventually put them close to the level of GR on a yearly basis, assuming participation does increase.

It is unfortunate that there will be fewer kids playing hs hockey, but the consolidation is in the best interests of all students, IMO.

ME has their own squirt teams now, so perhaps VMIB, EG, and ME teams won't combine until Pee Wees?

What will the name be? Golden Devils? Blue Bears? Giant Golden Devil Rangers? :D

Re: 7A - Thoughts

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:27 am
by greenwayraider
Don’t see this new school ever going AA. These are the weakest Rapids teams in years that they beat. Also Rapids has the history of being competitive most every year at AA. Both VMIB and Greenway will be underdogs to Rapids this year. This new team would rarely even get home ice in the first round. Until they win the A title a couple of times then I’d start talking about AA. I don’t see that happening.

Re: 7A - Thoughts

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:10 pm
by IRMN
This change will shake things up quite a bit in the next few years. This new combined school with Virginia and Eveleth-Gilbert will have a whole new name (like South Ridge, Northeast Range, North Woods, etc all had to do. New mascot, colors, everything.) One thing that was NEVER mentioned in the campaigning of this new school was athletics. Not one bit. This was based on education only. Which, in my opinion, athletics are just an extension of the classroom and should be cared about as much as education. Quality athletic programs=quality kids=quality education. Eveleth people will want to play in the Hipp for history...Virginia will want to play in their brand new arena when that happens....Do you combine the youth programs? You would think you'd have to...that's where you grow your players...will they need a Jr. Gold program for kids that get cut (have fun traveling to the cities every weekend)...intramurals? LOTS of questions to be answered now that it passed. I don't see this team ever going AA. Will they retain every kid? Enrollment may decline for all we know. Will people move because they didn't want to be part of a big collaboration like this? Coaching...who's gonna coach? Virginia or Eveleth? You hire out and people lose jobs...this is big picture stuff that wasn't mentioned at all. This will now be a rural school....lots of traveling. Going to be quite interesting. Once this gets going, yes, they could be a force in 7A. But it'll take some building. I am very interested to see how this all plays out.
I am assuming all co-ops will stay but not affect the name (Virginia-MIB-Eveleth-Gilbert-Mesabi East). VEGAS has been thrown around (Virginia Eveleth Gilbert Area School), Mesabi Central has been tossed out there....we'll see what happens. Big changes coming.

Re: 7A - Thoughts

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 2:35 pm
by greenwayraider
IRMN, I agree with everything you say except for the role of education. Your equation should read quality education= quality students = quality athletics. How many players on the hockey team will play beyond high school? Extra-curriculars are very important but should not be the most important. All students will either enter the workforce or attend a post-secondary institution. Their future lies in their developing trade skills or securing an education that prepares them for further education. The education model for the new school is outstanding and does just this. It will be the envy of almost every school in Northeastern Minnesota. As much as I enjoy high school athletics, education is far more important.

Re: 7A - Thoughts

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 2:41 pm
by CanAm Hockey
Congratulations to the students at Eveleth, Virginia and surrounding cities. Hearing Fort Frances and IFalls could be next, sports wise. I'm guessing it would work like the Baudette/Rainy River situation.

Re: 7A - Thoughts

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 7:34 am
by IRMN
greenwayraider, I absolutely agree with you. That is pretty much what I was trying to say but I was getting at the fact that zero mention of athletics was brought into this collaboration process. If your administration cares as much about athletics as it does education, there is going to be a good balance across the board. If you look at many academically successful schools...they have superb and successful athletic programs as well. I just feel athletics have fallen behind in Virginia and it has to do with little emphasis and support of athletic programs.

Re: 7A - Thoughts

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 11:38 am
by greenwayraider
This will put tremendous pressure on the remaining high schools in the area (MIB, Mesabi East, Cherry, Northeast Range, Ely, North Woods, Chisholm) to keep their students and not lose them to open enrollment. This new school could really make it tough on the remaining small schools to maintain financial stability. I would not be surprised at huge open enrollment gains for “Mesabi West”.

Re: 7A - Thoughts

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 1:09 pm
by That guy for that thing
Raider, doesnt ME already coop with EG? So would they be apart of this growth?

Re: 7A - Thoughts

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 1:14 pm
by IRMN
It absolutely will. It'll be interesting to see if enrollment increases and by how much if it does. Or will people not necessarily like the concept of a bigger school and will leave to smaller districts or stay put. Bigger school = bigger competition....kids will actually have to compete for a spot on a team now? That's a new concept up here on the Iron Range....

ME does coop with EG already in hockey. They will remain a separate school but still coop with hockey. I don't know what the numbers are from ME for hockey but I don't think it is super significant.

Re: 7A - Thoughts

Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 12:12 pm
by rainier2
greenwayraider wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 11:38 am
This will put tremendous pressure on the remaining high schools in the area (MIB, Mesabi East, Cherry, Northeast Range, Ely, North Woods, Chisholm) to keep their students and not lose them to open enrollment. This new school could really make it tough on the remaining small schools to maintain financial stability. I would not be surprised at huge open enrollment gains for “Mesabi West”.
There might be some enrollment gains, but I doubt it would be from MIB, who has a brand new, high tech school of its own. Ely would also seem to be a bit far for much open enrollment.

I won't be surprised if Hibbing and Chisholm combine soon. They already co-op for hockey and several other sports, so if they can ever get past the unthinkable combining of basketball teams, then it might, and should, happen. Perhaps Cherry would be part of this new school also. An advantage to this combination is that a new school wouldn't have to be built; Hibbing hs could absorb these students and I imagine it would cost far less to update the current hs than build a $200 million new building, as they are doing in Virginia.

Re: 7A - Thoughts

Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 12:52 pm
by IRMN
The state has money set aside for schools looking to collaborate. That is how Virginia and Eveleth-Gilbert got it done. If one city would have said no, it would have killed the deal and the money would have been dispersed to other districts looking to do the same. The $181 million dollar project/referendum that just passed is for 2 brand new elementary schools (one in virginia, one in eveleth) and a brand new high school in midway (between virginia and eveleth). I can see other schools in the area looking to do this in the future. The Range population is on a steady decline. Tax payers will only pay 19% of this project which was a big selling point. But, on the other hand, people are very proud up here and I can see the small towns doing what they can to keep the schools in their towns. Time will tell.

Re: 7A - Thoughts

Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 3:54 pm
by greenwayraider
The Greenway and Rapids school boards had a joint meeting this month. Discussion centered around identifying how the districts could collaborate on academics. It was clearly stated this was not for combining the school districts. At least for now.

Re: 7A - Thoughts

Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 8:44 am
by greenwayraider
A news article on the combining of Virginia and Eveleth-Gilbert left me a a little confused. The article identified this a collaboration leading to a consolidation. This makes it sound as if consolidation is not going to happen and each school district continues to operate for the time being. So a collaboration will not result in one sports team even though students from both districts will be in the same building. Can anyone clarify this for me?

Re: 7A - Thoughts

Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 9:39 am
by zooomx
I think until the new school is built, they are looking at a collaboration situation. Once the school is open, it will become a consolidation.

Re: 7A - Thoughts

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:41 am
by IRMN
It is a collaboration for now. That was basically to obtain the money from the state. It will eventually lead to consolidation. It is confirmed though that when the school is built Virginia-Eveleth-Gilbert will compete as one in all sports/extra curriculars.

Re: 7A - Thoughts

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:52 am
by greenwayraider
Thanks for the clarification.

Re: 7A - Thoughts

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:46 am
by kniven
I wonder if Greenway is going to scrimmage CEC again this summer. That would be sweeeeeeet 🤓

Re: 7A - Thoughts

Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:03 pm
by kniven
What in the world is going on with Hibbing boys hockey? It’s very unfortunate. 16,000 + population town in the range. Somebody please shed some light.....

Re: 7A - Thoughts

Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:18 pm
by greenwayraider
The same thing that has happened to all Range schools: declining enrollment and poorer economics and changing social conditions. In the high enrollment years (60s and 70s) Hibbing had an 9-12 enrollment of over 2,000 as they graduated over 500 students a year. Current enrollment figure is about 1,000 (this is without adjustment for free and reduced lunch). The 16,000 is made up of a lot of seniors as opposed to young families.Hibbing had a decent bantam team so they will put out a good product soon. Ranier2 can give a much better analysis than me.

Re: 7A - Thoughts

Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:33 pm
by muckandgrinder65
I think the social part is key as GWR mentioned.
Look at Princeton or St Franny-
The communities did it support hockey so the went to SCC or Andover.
Could Hibbing do what Greenway did?
Return to hockey roots and a solid program

Re: 7A - Thoughts

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:56 am
by rainier2
kniven wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:03 pm
What in the world is going on with Hibbing boys hockey? It’s very unfortunate. 16,000 + population town in the range. Somebody please shed some light.....
You like to bring this up periodically, Kniven, and I'll give the same answer I have in the past.

First of all, as Greenie mentioned, population is irrelevant for true Class A teams, enrollment is a bigger factor. (Mpls has a population of 422,000 and most years they wouldn't beat Hibbing. :D ) A quick look at MSHSL enrollments and it seems the only schools to have high-level Class A success with smaller enrollment than Hibbing are TRF, Warroad, and Greenway, and they've all had down periods.

Despite the struggles the HS program has had recently, let's not forget just 4 years ago they were a top 3 team in Class A, and just 3 years removed from being in the top 10. A lot of D1 talent developed in the Hibbing youth levels over the last few years (Perunovich, Gotz x2, Lee, Ullan, Galatz) but left at some point, for various reasons, including a previous coach who resigned under a cloud of awful rumors. Once some of these players left, a handful of next-tier players followed, thus we had the bottoming out we saw last year. But,the bantam team was solid this year, and it seems like there is a wave of talent at the younger levels, so it seems to me the youth program has been and still is pretty healthy.

The exodus began before the current head coach took over, so I can't blame him for it, but the onus is on him now to stop the bleeding and convince top talent that the grass isn't greener in Hermantown. (or Greenway! #-o ) :D I don't know enough to say whether or not he's making progress with this, so I'll leave that up to others.

Enrollments are up in Hibbing, there are more young families moving in or moving back, and believe it or not, the housing market is very tight here right now, something I thought I'd never hear. The mines are always a factor, but the future looks good. Like Churchill said, "I am an optimist, It does not seem too much use being anything else." 8)

Thanks again for poking the wound, Kniven, I'll see you over on the 7AA thread so you can tell us if Cloquet's colossal underachieving will continue for a 3rd year in a row. :D

Re: 7A - Thoughts

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:31 pm
by kniven
rainier2 wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:56 am
kniven wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:03 pm
What in the world is going on with Hibbing boys hockey? It’s very unfortunate. 16,000 + population town in the range. Somebody please shed some light.....
You like to bring this up periodically, Kniven, and I'll give the same answer I have in the past.

First of all, as Greenie mentioned, population is irrelevant for true Class A teams, enrollment is a bigger factor. (Mpls has a population of 422,000 and most years they wouldn't beat Hibbing. :D ) A quick look at MSHSL enrollments and it seems the only schools to have high-level Class A success with smaller enrollment than Hibbing are TRF, Warroad, and Greenway, and they've all had down periods.

Despite the struggles the HS program has had recently, let's not forget just 4 years ago they were a top 3 team in Class A, and just 3 years removed from being in the top 10. A lot of D1 talent developed in the Hibbing youth levels over the last few years (Perunovich, Gotz x2, Lee, Ullan, Galatz) but left at some point, for various reasons, including a previous coach who resigned under a cloud of awful rumors. Once some of these players left, a handful of next-tier players followed, thus we had the bottoming out we saw last year. But,the bantam team was solid this year, and it seems like there is a wave of talent at the younger levels, so it seems to me the youth program has been and still is pretty healthy.

The exodus began before the current head coach took over, so I can't blame him for it, but the onus is on him now to stop the bleeding and convince top talent that the grass isn't greener in Hermantown. (or Greenway! #-o ) :D I don't know enough to say whether or not he's making progress with this, so I'll leave that up to others.

Enrollments are up in Hibbing, there are more young families moving in or moving back, and believe it or not, the housing market is very tight here right now, something I thought I'd never hear. The mines are always a factor, but the future looks good. Like Churchill said, "I am an optimist, It does not seem too much use being anything else." 8)

Thanks again for poking the wound, Kniven, I'll see you over on the 7AA thread so you can tell us if Cloquet's colossal underachieving will continue for a 3rd year in a row. :D
Underachieving 3 years in a row. I’ll give you 2 years. Esse’s last year, we lost to a very good Duluth East team 1-0. East scored in the last few minutes of the game. Smalley’s year we basically swept Duluth East but lost a lot of games and Duluth MarshLl in a blowout at home in the QFinals. Last year, lots of close losses to elite teams and swept by Duluth East and destroyed in the SFinals by Duluth East. I’m still a huge, huge fan of my purple though 🤓. 15-8-2 Esse’s last year. - yea we should have been better with the talent that year. Unfortunately, the turmoil that hit our program began in the middle of that season. But like I always say: split with Duluth East in the regular season and get a home playoff game. 🙂👍

Re: 7A - Thoughts

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:25 pm
by rainier2
kniven wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:31 pm
rainier2 wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:56 am
kniven wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:03 pm
What in the world is going on with Hibbing boys hockey? It’s very unfortunate. 16,000 + population town in the range. Somebody please shed some light.....
You like to bring this up periodically, Kniven, and I'll give the same answer I have in the past.

First of all, as Greenie mentioned, population is irrelevant for true Class A teams, enrollment is a bigger factor. (Mpls has a population of 422,000 and most years they wouldn't beat Hibbing. :D ) A quick look at MSHSL enrollments and it seems the only schools to have high-level Class A success with smaller enrollment than Hibbing are TRF, Warroad, and Greenway, and they've all had down periods.

Despite the struggles the HS program has had recently, let's not forget just 4 years ago they were a top 3 team in Class A, and just 3 years removed from being in the top 10. A lot of D1 talent developed in the Hibbing youth levels over the last few years (Perunovich, Gotz x2, Lee, Ullan, Galatz) but left at some point, for various reasons, including a previous coach who resigned under a cloud of awful rumors. Once some of these players left, a handful of next-tier players followed, thus we had the bottoming out we saw last year. But,the bantam team was solid this year, and it seems like there is a wave of talent at the younger levels, so it seems to me the youth program has been and still is pretty healthy.

The exodus began before the current head coach took over, so I can't blame him for it, but the onus is on him now to stop the bleeding and convince top talent that the grass isn't greener in Hermantown. (or Greenway! #-o ) :D I don't know enough to say whether or not he's making progress with this, so I'll leave that up to others.

Enrollments are up in Hibbing, there are more young families moving in or moving back, and believe it or not, the housing market is very tight here right now, something I thought I'd never hear. The mines are always a factor, but the future looks good. Like Churchill said, "I am an optimist, It does not seem too much use being anything else." 8)

Thanks again for poking the wound, Kniven, I'll see you over on the 7AA thread so you can tell us if Cloquet's colossal underachieving will continue for a 3rd year in a row. :D
Underachieving 3 years in a row. I’ll give you 2 years. Esse’s last year, we lost to a very good Duluth East team 1-0. East scored in the last few minutes of the game. Smalley’s year we basically swept Duluth East but lost a lot of games and Duluth MarshLl in a blowout at home in the QFinals. Last year, lots of close losses to elite teams and swept by Duluth East and destroyed in the SFinals by Duluth East. I’m still a huge, huge fan of my purple though 🤓. 15-8-2 Esse’s last year. - yea we should have been better with the talent that year. Unfortunately, the turmoil that hit our program began in the middle of that season. But like I always say: split with Duluth East in the regular season and get a home playoff game. 🙂👍
Off topic! Keep this 7AA crap where it belongs! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Re: 7A - Thoughts

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:12 pm
by kniven
7AA thread bores people.