New Sheriff in 8AA??

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elliott70
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Re: New Sheriff in 8AA??

Post by elliott70 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:07 pm

Talked with a youth coach in Roseau's program.
He said the Rams got a couple of breaks early in the game and it snowballed on the Spuds.

He thinks Roseau beats Moorhead 2 out of ten.
He hopes the second time is in the section finals.

Amazing all the hockey minds out there saying different things.

One thing for sure, its a crazy season, right CEC?

karl(east)
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Re: New Sheriff in 8AA??

Post by karl(east) » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:20 pm

7TIMECHAMPS wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:16 am
A theme that seems to be emerging in this section is the top end talent for several of the teams but not a whole lot of depth. STMA with Laylin and Flammang. Roseau with Huglen, Huglen, Gunderson. Buffalo with the Braccini brothers. Bemidji to a lesser extent with Hunter Olson. And I would put Moorhead in this category as well. If Kleven (whom I was impressed with), HH, and Gramer aren't producing I am not sure who is going to. It could be a fluke game last night and they could get better but I wasn't impressed with the second set of D or the 2-3 lines. That same observation of the top needing to produce would apply to all of the teams mentioned above. If that doesn't happen it will likely be a poor night for any of these teams. Brainerd is maybe a little different story with not such a pronounced drop off but also it doesn't appear like they have any real high end D1 type of players either.

This observation leads me to believe that the name of the game/strategy to follow in 8AA is to figure out how to shut down a couple of players. A lot of these teams don't have enough to consistently produce after that. We will see if that rings true the rest of the year or not. Should be fun.
I expect there is a lot of truth to this, and it really comes out in some of the 8AA teams' results so far...Roseau rolling past Moorhead but losing to a very down Centennial, Moorhead hanging right with Andover but losing to Roseau, Brainerd getting thumped by Moorhead but hanging 9 on Bemidji. Whichever team can get the most out of its top line while getting the rest of the team to play reliable team defense will have an edge. Brainerd is sort of the wild card given its depth, but do they have some players they can turn to with a big game on the line?

I appreciate the good takes, especially since 8AA is probably the hardest section for non-locals to follow closely!

O-townClown
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Re: New Sheriff in 8AA??

Post by O-townClown » Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:34 am

northwoods oldtimer wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:29 am
I need a ruling does 6-2 loss equate to a woodshed schooling?
Absolutely. Particularly when it was 6-0 through two and the outcome was not in doubt early. (I think I have the right game. Memory blurring. I heard St. Thomas got up early on Benilde last night as well.)
Be kind. Rewind.

Green and White Fan
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Re: New Sheriff in 8AA??

Post by Green and White Fan » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:53 am

Mr. Elliot, I think you are being very generous with the term "hockey minds" if one of our youth coaches actually said Moorhead would win 8 out of 10. If that is the take away this person took from that game, not sure if they should be one of our youth coaches! :D
We've got 7 yes we do, we've got 7, how about you!

northwoods oldtimer
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Re: New Sheriff in 8AA??

Post by northwoods oldtimer » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:11 am

Green and White Fan wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:53 am
Mr. Elliot, I think you are being very generous with the term "hockey minds" if one of our youth coaches actually said Moorhead would win 8 out of 10. If that is the take away this person took from that game, not sure if they should be one of our youth coaches! :D
This is how fake news gets generated [-X

elliott70
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Re: New Sheriff in 8AA??

Post by elliott70 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:41 am

Actually he said 8 or 9 times.

elliott70
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Re: New Sheriff in 8AA??

Post by elliott70 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:45 am

To give him some credit he watched part of the first and most of the third.
And again to his credit he has been around for a long time in all facets of the game.

The other hockey minds include Moorhead, Bemidji, Brainerd and Warroad people.

I would like to think that Roseau will be in the section finals and then getting on the bus for St Paul, but there is no one or multiple leaders as of yet. Just confusion. I am going with 7times thoughts.

northwoods oldtimer
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Re: New Sheriff in 8AA??

Post by northwoods oldtimer » Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:46 pm

Image

Green and White Fan
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Re: New Sheriff in 8AA??

Post by Green and White Fan » Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:11 pm

"And again to his credit he has been around for a long time in all facets of the game." Maybe a little too long! :wink: #-o
We've got 7 yes we do, we've got 7, how about you!

Green and White Fan
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Re: New Sheriff in 8AA??

Post by Green and White Fan » Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:15 pm

I agree that this section will probably be a mess come seeding time. Roseau has 3 more games in a row here that they need to continue to build on and not lay anymore eggs. They showed us they could definitely do that in Grand Rapids. There will be several splits on the season between the top teams in the section. It certainly would be fun to get back down to St. Paul, but that would be a really premature assumption at this point.
We've got 7 yes we do, we've got 7, how about you!

elliott70
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Re: New Sheriff in 8AA??

Post by elliott70 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:29 pm

Green and White Fan wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:11 pm
"And again to his credit he has been around for a long time in all facets of the game." Maybe a little too long! :wink: #-o
Or maybe he understands that one period does not make a season.

7TIMECHAMPS
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Re: New Sheriff in 8AA??

Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:42 pm

elliott70 wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:29 pm
Green and White Fan wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:11 pm
"And again to his credit he has been around for a long time in all facets of the game." Maybe a little too long! :wink: #-o
Or maybe he understands that one period does not make a season.
That is true it does not. I would argue restraint in making a conclusion on such small data sets. But that goes both ways. Saying Moorhead would go 9-0 or 8-1 if they played 9 more times is a strong statement. What was the individual basing that conclusion off of? A pretty small data set for certain. Do they have information the rest of us don’t? They certainly weren’t basing it on last night’s game. It could end up being that Moorhead has the better team. Could have been a fluke. Too many unknowns at this point. Drawing that strong of a conclusion is just irresponsible at this point quite frankly. Especially since I am guessing that game was only time that individual has seen Moorhead all year.........honestly sounds like that individual might be talking out of their you know what. I don’t say that trying to offend anyone I just don’t know how else to word it.

Section 8 guy
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Re: New Sheriff in 8AA??

Post by Section 8 guy » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:13 am

I think some of the depth "perception" :D, or lack thereof....comes from the fact that you have a fair number of high end forwards in the section this year. Maybe more than normal and Especially on some non traditional teams like Buffalo and STMA. More teams have high end up front than in a normal year. Just because teams have a high end guy you have to stop doesn't mean they lack depth. It means they have a high end guy you have to stop. And there's a number of them this year.

I also think the assessment of where the depth does lie in the section given by 7Time is off target based on conversations with people from around the section.

7TIMECHAMPS
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Re: New Sheriff in 8AA??

Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:22 am

Section 8 guy wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:13 am
I think some of the depth "perception" :D, or lack thereof....comes from the fact that you have a fair number of high end forwards in the section this year. Maybe more than normal and Especially on some non traditional teams like Buffalo and STMA. More teams have high end up front than in a normal year. Just because teams have a high end guy you have to stop doesn't mean they lack depth. It means they have a high end guy you have to stop. And there's a number of them this year.

I also think the assessment of where the depth does lie in the section given by 7Time is off target based on conversations with people from around the section.
I am curious to hear which of the teams I gave that assessment for is incorrect? You mention STMA for example. They return their top two scorers off a state tournament team. However, they return almost nothing else and they brought in the #30 ranked bantam team from last year. Where does their depth come from? We know the teams I mentioned have a few high end players. Why then will section 8 likely not have a top 15 team in the rankings? Just curious where you think I am wrong.

Section 8 guy
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Re: New Sheriff in 8AA??

Post by Section 8 guy » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:40 am

I’m going to stay out of the bulletin board material business. I have already answered your question in my earlier comments. You have said where you think the depth is. I have said I think you’re off target. Time will tell.

I will point out that you have accused others of speaking out of their you know what and of basing things off a small “data set” then seem to turn right around and adamantly defend what you saw in one game and then give the standard team analysis that anyone could pull out of any superficial hockey rag that’s just trying to push product with no real understanding of the teams. Elliott seems to have more and better thought out sources than you do yet you’re bickering with him with very little substance to back it up.

Relax and enjoy the season. Let it play out.

7TIMECHAMPS
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Re: New Sheriff in 8AA??

Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:26 am

Section 8 guy wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:40 am
I’m going to stay out of the bulletin board material business. I have already answered your question in my earlier comments. You have said where you think the depth is. I have said I think you’re off target. Time will tell.

I will point out that you have accused others of speaking out of their you know what and of basing things off a small “data set” then seem to turn right around and adamantly defend what you saw in one game and then give the standard team analysis that anyone could pull out of any superficial hockey rag that’s just trying to push product with no real understanding of the teams. Elliott seems to have more and better thought out sources than you do yet you’re bickering with him with very little substance to back it up.

Relax and enjoy the season. Let it play out.
Time will tell. My beef with the statement that Moorhead would beat Roseau 8-9 out of 10 times was that it is too early and we don't have enough information to make a conclusion like that yet. I would have said that before the game too. I don't know that I made any bold statements in my assessment.

Elliot's sources watched the same game as me. The one that made the bold prediction didn't even watch the whole game by his own admission. So I am not sure where those sources got their substance that you seem to think they have and I don't?

If you want some supporting information to my statement about the lack of depth on the above teams I will give you a few supporting points.

No team in the section (unless I missed somebody) had more than 2 elite league players. Not a perfect correlation but usually a good indicator of upper class talent numbers.

Another way to add depth is layering in underclassmen. Brainerd had the highest ranked bantam team on YHH at #20. Four of the five teams I mentioned had under .500 bantam teams (Buffalo, Moorhead, STMA, and Bemidji).

If it is Moorhead you disagree with specifically when you look at player's returning after HH and Kleven the two players with the most points off last year's team have 4-4-8 and 1-3-4 respectively.

No large transfers that I know of either.

I am not saying that none of these teams could develop some depth just that as of now I am not sure where it comes from.

Another way I think about it is remove the top two players from each of those teams and how much do they scare you? Moorhead the last couple years, STMA the last couple of years, Bemidji a few years ago when they had state runs. All of those teams would still look pretty tough without their top 2 players. I am not yet convinced there is a team like that in the section. The recipe may be closer to the 2014 Rams for the eventual section winner. We will see

Section 8 guy
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Re: New Sheriff in 8AA??

Post by Section 8 guy » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:24 am

I agree with you the comment seemed very strong based on a limited viewing. I’m not talking about that one comment about the Moorhead and Roseau game. I didn’t see the game but I agree with you there. I’m talking about the bigger picture comments about the section..

Where I think Elliott’s overall comments have merit is they come from a broad sample of people that have seen the teams play and it seems to be coming from a variety of perspectives and settings. That’s what matters. This year’s teams.

The paper analysis of what people have coming back can be flawed. Look at Chaska. Scoring a bunch of points vs New Prague doesn’t mean much when you’re now trying to compete with Edina and White Bear Lake. That takes a completely different type of depth and the paper analysis of what’s coming back makes the teams with weak schedules look better than they are. What if one team doesn’t need any help from Sophomores but another one does? That completely changes the relevance of last years Bantam teams.

Elliott’s comments seem to be well grounded. Yours seem abstract and based on limited viewings and paper analysis. Not saying yours aren’t valid.....just saying which ones have more credibility in my eyes.

northwoods oldtimer
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Re: New Sheriff in 8AA??

Post by northwoods oldtimer » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:33 am

I am waiting for the Worriors to step up and take charge and claim the section.
Wizard of Aus take note, the section needs a bonafide leader. The door is open for opportunity here in 2019.
Have the boys ready to thump some gourds. Archie can fill you in on how to get it done. =P~

7TIMECHAMPS
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Re: New Sheriff in 8AA??

Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:05 pm

Section 8 guy wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:24 am
I agree with you the comment seemed very strong based on a limited viewing. I’m not talking about that one comment about the Moorhead and Roseau game. I didn’t see the game but I agree with you there. I’m talking about the bigger picture comments about the section..

Where I think Elliott’s overall comments have merit is they come from a broad sample of people that have seen the teams play and it seems to be coming from a variety of perspectives and settings. That’s what matters. This year’s teams.

The paper analysis of what people have coming back can be flawed. Look at Chaska. Scoring a bunch of points vs New Prague doesn’t mean much when you’re now trying to compete with Edina and White Bear Lake. That takes a completely different type of depth and the paper analysis of what’s coming back makes the teams with weak schedules look better than they are. What if one team doesn’t need any help from Sophomores but another one does? That completely changes the relevance of last years Bantam teams.

Elliott’s comments seem to be well grounded. Yours seem abstract and based on limited viewings and paper analysis. Not saying yours aren’t valid.....just saying which ones have more credibility in my eyes.
That is ok you can disagree with me. I was just giving my assessment to this point. We will have to wait and see how everything plays out. It will be interesting to see if some secondary players emerge on these teams.

I don't know that I disagree with much of what Elliot said other than the 8-9 of the next 10 Moorhead would win. I just thought that was too strong a statement for the small sample. Most everything else sounded good.

SOS is a good point. Everything is never apples to apples. It is early in the year though so some assumptions have to be made passed on prior years. Bantam teams can make a big difference though in comparing say this year's seniors against each other in youth hockey. It can re-balance the scales. I will give 2016 Rapids as an example (nobody has anything close to that).

Nothing we can do now but wait and see what happens. It should be a fun year for this section.

elliott70
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Re: New Sheriff in 8AA??

Post by elliott70 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:42 am

From where I sit it looks like

Roseau
Moorhead
Brainerd
St Mikes
Bemidji
St Cloud
Buffalo
Rogers

Of course a long way to go.

northwoods oldtimer
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Re: New Sheriff in 8AA??

Post by northwoods oldtimer » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:17 am

At 9-2-1 ROSEAU is back as the Sheriff of section 8AA

Did the boys find their killer instinct after going to sleep in Rapidly declining?

I sure hope so they are most puck skilled group out of the storied section when clicking.

Looks like Worriors have folded the tent stake for 2019 and are booking spring fling flights to warmer destinations. Aus and the hockey moms be like that. priorities don't ya know.

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