Hudson WI is 2-0 vs MN teams, 0-2 vs WI...

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LASERBLUE135
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Hudson WI is 2-0 vs MN teams, 0-2 vs WI...

Post by LASERBLUE135 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:28 pm

I can virtually guarantee that’s never happened in the history of Wisconsin high school hockey. Hudson was #1 coming into the year, but in the past the #1 team in Wisconsin would get rolled by almost any Minnesota team. Yes, Hudson played Woodbury and Mankato so they didn’t knock off anyone in the top 10, but it’s interesting that they then lost to a couple of Wisconsin teams. I see this as another sign that MN high school hockey is fading while Wisconsin hockey is possibly seeing a resurgence. What is Wisconsin doing that Minnesota isn’t? The answer is probably more what is Minnesota doing that Wisconsin is avoiding???

O-townClown
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Re: Hudson WI is 2-0 vs MN teams, 0-2 vs WI...

Post by O-townClown » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:47 pm

LASERBLUE135 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:28 pm
I see this as another sign that MN high school hockey is fading while Wisconsin hockey is possibly seeing a resurgence.
Fading compared to what? Minnesota HS hockey is very healthy. I heard the sky was falling a decade ago and it certainly never happened.
Be kind. Rewind.

green4
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Re: Hudson WI is 2-0 vs MN teams, 0-2 vs WI...

Post by green4 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:09 pm

Yeah, I don't think Minnesota hockey is ending because Mankato East lost to Hudson and then Hudson lost to Superior. The people of Hudson probably have more in common with the rest of twin cities then they do to someone living in Milwaukee or Madison. I just looked at Hudson's bantam team and 12 of their first 13 games are against Minnesota teams.

It is okay to lose to the people across the river once in awhile.

Section 8 guy
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Re: Hudson WI is 2-0 vs MN teams, 0-2 vs WI...

Post by Section 8 guy » Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:22 am

Is this a real post?

Can't.......tell.........if.........serious..........

greenwayraider
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Re: Hudson WI is 2-0 vs MN teams, 0-2 vs WI...

Post by greenwayraider » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:24 am

Trolling

northwoods oldtimer
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Re: Hudson WI is 2-0 vs MN teams, 0-2 vs WI...

Post by northwoods oldtimer » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:45 am

LASERBLUE135 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:28 pm
I can virtually guarantee that’s never happened in the history of Wisconsin high school hockey. Hudson was #1 coming into the year, but in the past the #1 team in Wisconsin would get rolled by almost any Minnesota team. Yes, Hudson played Woodbury and Mankato so they didn’t knock off anyone in the top 10, but it’s interesting that they then lost to a couple of Wisconsin teams. I see this as another sign that MN high school hockey is fading while Wisconsin hockey is possibly seeing a resurgence. What is Wisconsin doing that Minnesota isn’t? The answer is probably more what is Minnesota doing that Wisconsin is avoiding???
Hudson WI will only get better as years progress.Nice to see growth and development of bordering city.

zooomx
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Re: Hudson WI is 2-0 vs MN teams, 0-2 vs WI...

Post by zooomx » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:59 am

Seems like someone is unhappy with something MN Hockey is doing but doesn't want to come right out and say it. :roll:

Hockey in MN is not fading. Hockey in WI border towns may be picking up, which is a good thing for everyone!

gopherpuck516
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Re: Hudson WI is 2-0 vs MN teams, 0-2 vs WI...

Post by gopherpuck516 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:47 am

Hudson is basically an East Metro suburb. I’m glad they’re doing well, but suggesting MN hockey is fading based on a 4 game sample wherein the MN teams they’ve beat are middle of the road (at best in Woodbury’s case, Mankato East could be a rising Class A team over the next couple years) as far as the entire state is concerned, is asinine. Nothing against WI hockey, I hope they continue to get better. But your suggestion is a non-issue.

MrBoDangles
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Re: Hudson WI is 2-0 vs MN teams, 0-2 vs WI...

Post by MrBoDangles » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:58 am

Not even close... Wisconsin might be #1 in birthing famous serial killers, though.. 👍

goldy313
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Re: Hudson WI is 2-0 vs MN teams, 0-2 vs WI...

Post by goldy313 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:04 pm

Schools like Eau Claire Memorial, Onalaska, Superior, and New Richmond have beat Minnesota schools fairly regularly over the years. I would bet over the last decade Memorial, at the very least, is well above .500 against Minnesota schools. Are they playing Edina or Minnetonka? No, but they played the Rochester schools pretty regularly. Same caliber as East and Woodbury.

LASERBLUE135
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Re: Hudson WI is 2-0 vs MN teams, 0-2 vs WI...

Post by LASERBLUE135 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:50 pm

I see Madison Memorial hasn’t played a MN team for 10 years. If you look at Superior and Hudson, teams that play MN teams regularly and are constantly some of the best teams in WI you’ll see they are probably .250 win percentage if lucky against MN teams. You’ll see loses to plenty of middling MN teams...until recently. You think that means nothing? I’m not sure.

Inver Grove neophyte
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Re: Hudson WI is 2-0 vs MN teams, 0-2 vs WI...

Post by Inver Grove neophyte » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:03 pm

Having lived in both Superior and Eau Claire along with the Twin Cities and Duluth I have watched a lot of hockey in both states and it is not even close.

The top Wisconsin schools would be competitive against most class A top teams consistently (Not Herantown or EGF) but they would not be able to compete with the top AA teams. Winning 3 in a row at State against top AA would be a major upset not unlike the 1980 miracle on ice.

Superior plays Duluth East every year right before they start playoffs and they get dominated. the last 2 years have been 7-0 and 8-1 shellackings.

Superior benefits greatly from playing a minnesota heavy schedule every year. They won the Wisconsin State title with a sub 500 record in 2015.
This article says it all.

https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/sport ... nsin-title

Inver Grove neophyte
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Re: Hudson WI is 2-0 vs MN teams, 0-2 vs WI...

Post by Inver Grove neophyte » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:04 pm

If ou want to gauge first hand. Next Thursday (Dec 13) Hudson is playing Mahtomedi at St Croix Rec. You could also catch the current #1 team in Wisconsin (University School of Milwaukee) at the Schwan's Cup tourney over the Holidays. They are in the Bronze bracket. They lost to Simley last year in the same bracket. Hudson is in the Silver Bracket of the Schwan's.

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Re: Hudson WI is 2-0 vs MN teams, 0-2 vs WI...

Post by O-townClown » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:49 pm

IGN, thanks for your informed assessment as to the competitiveness of these levels. Wisconsin has very many good players. Evidence is that their Elite League team is able to compete. Minnesota feeds six, however. No matter how you slice it there is still strong play in Minnesota.

His initial post is interesting. Winning against Minnesota teams and losing in Wisconsin. The conclusion is seriously flawed. The teams they beat aren't indicative of high-level Minnesota HS hockey at all.
Be kind. Rewind.

gopherpuck516
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Re: Hudson WI is 2-0 vs MN teams, 0-2 vs WI...

Post by gopherpuck516 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:48 pm

O-townClown wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:49 pm
IGN, thanks for your informed assessment as to the competitiveness of these levels. Wisconsin has very many good players. Evidence is that their Elite League team is able to compete. Minnesota feeds six, however. No matter how you slice it there is still strong play in Minnesota.

His initial post is interesting. Winning against Minnesota teams and losing in Wisconsin. The conclusion is seriously flawed. The teams they beat aren't indicative of high-level Minnesota HS hockey at all.
WI fields one team in the Elite League, MN fields 6. If WI were to field 6 teams made up (mostly) geographically as MN does, each game they face a MN team would be running time. A 4 game sample is cute, but not indicative in the least of the state of HS hockey in either state.

hockey59
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Re: Hudson WI is 2-0 vs MN teams, 0-2 vs WI...

Post by hockey59 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:09 pm

Superior actually has a pretty decent team this year, they defeated Hudson 3-1 last Saturday & Chippewa Falls 6-2 Tuesday (CF beat Hudson 4-3 recently). Superior plays Duluth Denfeld (who just upset Greenway 4-3, albeit the Denfeld goalie made 50 saves) 😳on Dec 20th it will be interesting to see how that game comes out☝️

karl(east)
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Re: Hudson WI is 2-0 vs MN teams, 0-2 vs WI...

Post by karl(east) » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:26 pm

Inver Grove neophyte wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:03 pm
The top Wisconsin schools would be competitive against most class A top teams consistently (Not Herantown or EGF) but they would not be able to compete with the top AA teams. Winning 3 in a row at State against top AA would be a major upset not unlike the 1980 miracle on ice.
This is the exact line I've used in the past when comparing Wisconsin to Minnesota: similar to Class A, but without any of the Hermantown/STA super teams that occasionally come along. By that measure, a top-5 Wisconsin team beating a 10-20ish Minnesota team like Mankato East and a AA program going nowhere like Woodbury is no surprise at all.

Hudson, as a third tier suburb, will likely continue to improve, much as many other communities in that tier have over time. It's also a fairly large school that would be AA by Minnesota standards. I'm guessing they'll continue to be competitive, but will be an exception given their proximity to the metro.

Superior has had some ebbs and flows and occasionally gives East a competitive game, but hasn't beaten the Hounds since 03-04. East is 39-1 against Superior under Mike Randolph (who was on his one-year coaching "sabbatical" in 03-04)...through the 70s and early 80s it was actually a pretty even rivalry. I have the all-time record at 57-15-1...don't think I'm missing any stuff there.

LASERBLUE135
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Re: Hudson WI is 2-0 vs MN teams, 0-2 vs WI...

Post by LASERBLUE135 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:53 pm

I appreciate the feedback. I’m not at all saying that Minnesota is going to be overtaken by Wisconsin. They are and likely will always be on completely different levels overall. However, over the years the trend has been more Wisconsin teams coming into Minnesota and winning. I think statistically it would be a huge difference comparing winning percentages from as little as 5-7 years ago to the last few years. 5 years ago the #1 team in Wisconsin comes into a class A holiday tournament and gets rolled. Now they are playing in the Schwan Cup and winning games and winning divisions. I see Wisconsin OVERALL becoming more skilled, while a handful of Minnesota teams are rising to the top. 5 years ago the best team in WI loses consistently to middling A teams. Today I think they play straight up with teams in the 10-20 AA level. I think teams in the 10-20 level get rolled pretty good by the top 5 (similar to the best in Wisconsin). I see a trend. A very small number of MN schools are elite, while after that WI is becoming competitive with the remaining. That did not happen in very recent memory. Remember that Superior in Wisconsin is the Edina (some off years, but generally near the top of the state). My nephew was the goalie that year they won WI with a losing record. They were bad that year and just happened to get that perfect chemistry at the end of the season. You can’t just look at that one school. Most WI teams wouldn’t even bother coming here in past years. That again is changing because they are becoming more competitive. Wisconsin might be getting better? Minnesota might be getting worse? (Except for 5-6 teams that have a group of D1 recruits each year). That’s somewhat new.

grindiangrad-80
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Re: Hudson WI is 2-0 vs MN teams, 0-2 vs WI...

Post by grindiangrad-80 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:31 pm

I would agree that the gap between WIAA and MSHL Hockey has narrowed. My question is this- why has it taken 75 years?

gopherpuck516
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Re: Hudson WI is 2-0 vs MN teams, 0-2 vs WI...

Post by gopherpuck516 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:18 am

“Wisconsin might be getting better? Minnesota might be getting worse?”

As I mentioned, I hope WI hockey is getting better. Hockey around the country is getting better and that’s a great thing. Some fun games between teams from neighboring states would always be welcomed. But I’ll argue your suggestion that MN hockey is getting worse, as I would argue your statement that a handful of MN teams are elite and then after that they’re middling. In class A that can be true some years, but in AA I’d suggest there isn’t some deep drop after the top elite teams.

SCBlueLiner
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Re: Hudson WI is 2-0 vs MN teams, 0-2 vs WI...

Post by SCBlueLiner » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:06 am

I think Wisconsin hockey is like hockey in out-state, especially southern MN, the sport is growing and the talent is getting better. It's kind of like hockey everywhere in the country, the talent is getting better and good players are being produced in many different places. It's not a case of MN slipping, it's everyone else is getting better due to knowledge and information being shared via the internet. Coaching and training is getting better everywhere because of the web.

Minnesota Class AA has some truly elite level teams that no Wisconsin teams could compete with. The top 10 or so WI teams would be competitive with the back half of AA and most of A (outside the Class A super teams). My big wonder this year (if you'll allow me to shift to the other side of the border) is how Grand Forks Central would compete with the top schools in MN. They are killing everyone in NoDak.

green4
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Re: Hudson WI is 2-0 vs MN teams, 0-2 vs WI...

Post by green4 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:14 am

SCBlueLiner wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:06 am
\
My big wonder this year (if you'll allow me to shift to the other side of the border) is how Grand Forks Central would compete with the top schools in MN. They are killing everyone in NoDak.
Trying to navigate the North Dakota high school hockey page is a bit difficult, but I would agree that Grand Forks Central would be a good team here. They beat Orono pretty bad this year, but they did split with EGF last year. They lost 5-1 and then won 4-0 a couple weeks later. North Dakota seems to have probably a better top team than Wisconsin, but the depth in North Dakota looks pretty bad. For one, they only have 19 or 20 teams in the state it looks like. Also, looking at the results page there are JV teams playing Varsity so I don't know if those are exhibitions or what, but in some cases the JV teams are winning so that should tell you something. If you add up the state championships in the state, Grand Forks Central has 27 since 1961, including the first 13 state titles. Grand Forks Red River has 17 state titles. The rest of the state has 15 and that is spread between 5 teams.
If you look at the Grand Rapids AA bantam team they play a pretty heavy Minnesota and Canadian schedule. Minot and Fargo are the only North Dakota teams they play in the regular season. But their AA bantam team is really good it appears, they beat lake conference teams last year. This year they lost to Blaine and OMG but beat Elk River and Moorhead. But I would also assume that roughly half the team will go to Red River and half will go to Central.
So if I GF Central were to come here to play I would think they would be equivalent to an elite A team or maybe around 12-16 in AA? I am no expert but I went back through Hockey hub and looked at all there games with EGF and they are .500 going back to 2014. If you look past 2014, those were against those really good state champ EGF teams and they were losing both games. So long story short, I think they are probably pretty comparable to EGF

Goose21
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Re: Hudson WI is 2-0 vs MN teams, 0-2 vs WI...

Post by Goose21 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:01 pm

There is no real big secret in creating a successful hockey program--building a base with a high number of kids, good coaching, a focus on development, playing good competition, a commitment to success. The programs who do that (or are able to) anywhere are going to be successful. You are going to see less growth in programs that have been doing it for a while here in Minnesota, but you will also see those programs coming up with new ideas to take things to the next level.

As up and coming programs (such as those in ND,WI, Southern MN, and newer ring suburbs) begin to imitate and resemble the more successful Minnesota programs, they are going to improve more rapidly and close the gap. Eventually the programs with the most resources rise to the top. In the North I think about how Moorhead went from a developing program in the 90s to the most dominate program in 8AA the last two decades.
Forecheck, Backcheck, Paycheck

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