CEC boys High School Hockey to A

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kniven
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CEC boys High School Hockey to A

Post by kniven » Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:29 pm

I am starting my campaign to make it known that I do, and would support Cloquet, Esko, and Carlton moving to single A in boys high school hockey. I’m not alone. Please let me know your thoughts boys. Thanks

elliott70
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Re: CEC boys High School Hockey to A

Post by elliott70 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:47 pm

Let the people in power do what's best for all.

elliott70
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Re: CEC boys High School Hockey to A

Post by elliott70 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:47 pm

Bemidji is discussing it this winter.

greenwayraider
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Re: CEC boys High School Hockey to A

Post by greenwayraider » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:16 pm

If CEC goes to Class A that will end any chance of a Range school making it to state. Denfeld, CEC and Hermantown will be the top teams for years to come. That will also require section 7AA and 8AA ( if Bemidji switches too) to absorb more metro teams or maybe just one “Northern” Section.

northwoods oldtimer
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Re: CEC boys High School Hockey to A

Post by northwoods oldtimer » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:23 pm

kniven wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:29 pm
I am starting my campaign to make it known that I do, and would support Cloquet, Esko, and Carlton moving to single A in boys high school hockey. I’m not alone. Please let me know your thoughts boys. Thanks
Horrible decision to move down to single A level of hockey for CEC. No reason for it. Admission of joining the ranks of mediocrity. Overall its just not very exciting hockey to be honest. Single A has its place for some programs, CEC is not one of them. Your kids are better off playing semi final Saturday than ever playing for single A title on a Thursday night no show event. It's not all about chasing trophies.

rainier2
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Re: CEC boys High School Hockey to A

Post by rainier2 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:53 pm

If I'm a CEC fan, I don't want to go to A. The Jacks were missing their two best defensemen and they lost to the #2 team in AA in OT on the road. A program that can produce a team like that should want to stay in AA.

However, if the future is bleak in CEC, then it makes sense to go A. One thing for the purple faithful to consider is whether or not Hermantown stays in 7A, because if they do, the chances of making it out of 7A are about the same as 7AA.

Any chance the Jacks end up in 5A?

ifallsin64
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Re: CEC boys High School Hockey to A

Post by ifallsin64 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:02 pm

I just don’t see it, CEC folks are a proud bunch. I would be shocked.

Goose21
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Re: CEC boys High School Hockey to A

Post by Goose21 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:38 pm

CEC is still a AA program and should remain so until thru the 20-21 season. But beyond that I don’t see them as able to compete at the AA level the way they should. Similar to Bemidji who had a nice run a few years ago, but are really an A program who be a contender at that level, but HS and youth teams just can’t match up to AA teams with any consistency.
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elliott70
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Re: CEC boys High School Hockey to A

Post by elliott70 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:07 am

Well Bemidji is 2-2 against 8AA teams and there are a lot of die-hards. but a lot of young parents of hockey players thinking other wise.

northwoods oldtimer
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Re: CEC boys High School Hockey to A

Post by northwoods oldtimer » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:28 am

elliott70 wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:07 am
Well Bemidji is 2-2 against 8AA teams and there are a lot of die-hards. but a lot of young parents of hockey players thinking other wise.
Geez! I am shocked! :shock:

LASERBLUE135
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Re: CEC boys High School Hockey to A

Post by LASERBLUE135 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:55 am

I come from a school that NEVER competes with the top teams. We beat them once every 15 years and we get a close game every 5. Our school wins a playoff game once every 5 years. THIS is the type of team that should be considering a drop to A.

CEC has been competitive for years. Just because you’re not making it to state doesn’t mean you should drop. When you are near hopeless and don’t even get a thought when the top tier teams see you on the schedule, that’s when you drop down. Just a thought.

Do you not think you’re competitive??? That is the question. If you don’t think you are, then you’re ready to drop to A. Otherwise you’re a AA school.

TheHockeyDJ
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Re: CEC boys High School Hockey to A

Post by TheHockeyDJ » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:22 am

LASERBLUE135 wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:55 am
I come from a school that NEVER competes with the top teams. We beat them once every 15 years and we get a close game every 5. Our school wins a playoff game once every 5 years. THIS is the type of team that should be considering a drop to A.

CEC has been competitive for years. Just because you’re not making it to state doesn’t mean you should drop. When you are near hopeless and don’t even get a thought when the top tier teams see you on the schedule, that’s when you drop down. Just a thought.

Do you not think you’re competitive??? That is the question. If you don’t think you are, then you’re ready to drop to A. Otherwise you’re a AA school.
That is where the biggest problem is, in hockey and in life. If you think you can't, you can't. Maybe instead of being "realistic", set unrealistic goals, outwork everyone else and see where that gets you. If your thoughts are mediocre, your results and life will be mediocre. So rather than take a losers mentality and drop to A, perhaps programs/parents etc, need to ask themselves why they are so eager to quit. CEC dropping to A is ridiculous. That program has more then enough to compete at AA. Roseau has won state titles and been to the tourney in recent years and look at their population. Perfect example of a program that sets unrealistic goals, puts in the work, and reaps the results of that mentality and effort.
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Northernlakes
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Re: CEC boys High School Hockey to A

Post by Northernlakes » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:55 am

Everyone gets a medal, everyone gets equal ice time, every kid should be on the power play, every team should play as low level as hockey as they can so they can win every game, go to State every year.

Makes me sick. The only thing everyone is promised in life is you can vote when your 18. CEC was suppose to be this huge success this year. Guess what, injuries happen, another kid steps up and gets a chance, they are not where they are because of injuries, plenty of talent there in CEC land.

Bigfoot12
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Re: CEC boys High School Hockey to A

Post by Bigfoot12 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:23 pm

The rumor I have heard is Esko wants to break off and play A, Esko has the majority of the top end players

kniven
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Re: CEC boys High School Hockey to A

Post by kniven » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:56 pm

Bigfoot12 wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:23 pm
The rumor I have heard is Esko wants to break off and play A, Esko has the majority of the top end players
If that happened, it would be Esko/Carlton. The indoor rink in Carlton would be needed. Esko gives CEC the depth it needs in high school pretty consistently. I would say Cloquet provides the most top end talent year in and year out. Without Esko’s numbers adding much needed depth and feeder to CEC, Cloquet would have no choice to drop down to A as well. 5 years ago, Esko was chewing on the idea of having their own squirt program, then coming over to CEC for Peewees and bantams, which was just talk.

tezer13
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Re: CEC boys High School Hockey to A

Post by tezer13 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:31 am

OK - sorry it's late and I didn't read everyone's comments.

But the last thing we need it for good AA teams to go and play A, especially in section 7 - a NORTH section. We need teams to move up, not down. Without starting the whole Hermantown thing in yet another thread. I'll just say it again.

We need teams to move up once they have used A to establish a program.

Move up, let another team get some success at A, build a better program and guess what...yes MOVE UP.

To me that is the only good thing about A. If it's all about teams winning trophies and going to state it stagnates the whole system (in my view anyway). Build better programs move up, get even better. Before the HS merger in Duluth, East was eligible for A, Cloquet is and I think Rapids is. Look at Roseau. Should they all move down? To what? Win some hardware?

I've watched just about every Cloquet team at state and while it was usually because they knocked off East...Man I was pulling for them. And some of those East Cloquet games were EPIC beyond belief. The East v. Cloquet rivalry is one of the best in the state! Top 2 or 3, I would say. I watched Cloquet v. East in '91 sitting in the middle of the aisle, sitting on the cement steps (after being over an hour early) with well over 7000 fans in stadium that sat 5300 or so. Game went to OT with Fitzgerald roofing one to send East to state for the first time in almost 20 years.

Then we got to watch the Langenbrunner years and some of the best Cloquet teams ever (though if Millen hadn't been hurt in 82?). The 93' team could have easily won the whole thing, but got Roseau first. Then we watched the beginning of Spehar-Locker East v. Cloquet in 94. I didn't even get to sit on the concrete in that one. NO NO NO NO NO NO NOOOOoooo

If every north team that can play A does, we might as well have a North State and a Metro State, which would ruin the whole bleeping thing. The AA-A system has almost done this already and without strong northern teams in AA, it will happen.

A and AA already put a tear into the heart of hockey in MN, let's try not to add more.

The whole Esko breaking off would stink too.

by the way kudos to Marshall.

northwoods oldtimer
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Re: CEC boys High School Hockey to A

Post by northwoods oldtimer » Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:45 am

Kudos to Marshal, Rapids, Roseau, CEC, Bemidji they all play up.

The whole Esko move (playing A) is absurd.

elliott70
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Re: CEC boys High School Hockey to A

Post by elliott70 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:57 am

northwoods oldtimer wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:45 am
Kudos to Marshal, Rapids, Roseau, CEC, Bemidji they all play up.

The whole Esko move (playing A) is absurd.
And if we could get East Grand, Thief and Alex

And Hermantown, Greenway, Virginia or Hibbing

zooomx
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Re: CEC boys High School Hockey to A

Post by zooomx » Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:28 am

Does anyone else wonder if kniven is just trolling? I think he is just sitting back with a bowl of popcorn and giggling.

Goose21
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Re: CEC boys High School Hockey to A

Post by Goose21 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:11 am

This topic brings up three questions I have for the sake of discussion:

1.) There are 3 long-standing opt-up programs in CEC, Roseau, and Bemidji that are at least rumored to be considering not opting up. Why and for what reasons would they now considering not opting-up?

2.) Conversely, there are 3 similar and comparable programs in East Grand Forks, Thief River Falls, and Warroad that have never opted up. Why and for what reasons have they never opted up?

3.) What would be a reasonable set of criteria for any program to use to decide whether to opt up (i.e. ability to compete against AA/A programs, numbers, strength of youth program, play-off seeding/record, geography, etc)?
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Jeffy95
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Re: CEC boys High School Hockey to A

Post by Jeffy95 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:20 am

Bigfoot12 wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:23 pm
The rumor I have heard is Esko wants to break off and play A, Esko has the majority of the top end players
Very heavy on the "rumor" part there. Esko doesn't have enough players to field their own High School team. They only have a handful of Bantams playing right now. And no arena which is kind of a big deal. And the majority of the top end players are not from Esko. If Esko broke from Cloquet their only option would be a co-op with Proctor, which has been thrown around in the past.

elliott70
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Re: CEC boys High School Hockey to A

Post by elliott70 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:27 am

Goose21 wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:11 am
This topic brings up three questions I have for the sake of discussion:

1.) There are 3 long-standing opt-up programs in CEC, Roseau, and Bemidji that are at least rumored to be considering not opting up. Why and for what reasons would they now considering not opting-up?

Not speaking for any of these three, but my perception is that they feel they cannot compete with the bigger schools - Moorhead, Brainerd, St Mikes in terms of resources they have: number of players, facilities, money. I think these are obstacles but not insurmountable. I wiul hope none of these programs play single A. But I will cheer for them regardless.


2.) Conversely, there are 3 similar and comparable programs in East Grand Forks, Thief River Falls, and Warroad that have never opted up. Why and for what reasons have they never opted up?

The play Moorhead, Bemidji, Roseau and Brainerd in bantams (and below) and frequently compete. that is not the fear. They want to be playing for the state championship and find it would be difficult to beat Edina, Minnetonka, Wayzata, Maple Grove, Duluth East and add the metro privates. Again, I am making an assumption on their part.

3.) What would be a reasonable set of criteria for any program to use to decide whether to opt up (i.e. ability to compete against AA/A programs, numbers, strength of youth program, play-off seeding/record, geography, etc)?

I don't know. Bemidji people (some if not most) feel Bemidji is a big school (and they are when you look at their neighbors) and playing 5A football, 2A hockey, etc is where they belong. We have a lot of new faces serving in roles a the youth level and they see obstacles not challenges so they are thinking of the switch.
I think if the group moved up it would make sense to them. Moorhead/Brainerd would stand in their way but they see those teams on a regular basis and would feel they had the chance. I think that may be a motivator, brining the competition back to what they see most of their youth hockey days. Again just me speaking of the cuff.

Mite-dad
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Re: CEC boys High School Hockey to A

Post by Mite-dad » Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:27 am

Goose21 wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:11 am
This topic brings up three questions I have for the sake of discussion:

1.) There are 3 long-standing opt-up programs in CEC, Roseau, and Bemidji that are at least rumored to be considering not opting up. Why and for what reasons would they now considering not opting-up?

2.) Conversely, there are 3 similar and comparable programs in East Grand Forks, Thief River Falls, and Warroad that have never opted up. Why and for what reasons have they never opted up?

3.) What would be a reasonable set of criteria for any program to use to decide whether to opt up (i.e. ability to compete against AA/A programs, numbers, strength of youth program, play-off seeding/record, geography, etc)?
Honestly, I think the answer to all those questions is that "A" Hockey isn't as bad as what all you say it is, and, actually, adding these teams would instantly make it even more interesting. But I agree that I'd rather they stay in AA.

hockey59
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Re: CEC boys High School Hockey to A

Post by hockey59 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:27 am

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pdi_kASSsJs I say we lock this thread and let the chiefs (Hawks) continue with their long standing old time hockey style of play 😉🤣

Upfan111
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Re: CEC boys High School Hockey to A

Post by Upfan111 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:31 am

Bigfoot12 wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:23 pm
The rumor I have heard is Esko wants to break off and play A, Esko has the majority of the top end players
HAHAHA That's pretty funny!! Good one.

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