You're giving him too much credit.
Maybe sitting back with a bowl of popcorn watching all those "great" CEC teams from 2009 - 2017
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Well stated 7 time. The reality is...it’s NOT a similar experience or ACCOMPLISHMENT for the players (on a team like Hermantown) where as PWAA’s & BantamAA’s these players often qualify for the MAHA State Tourney...it’s a rather steep step down7TIMECHAMPS wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:52 pm Just my thoughts on the matter. Not speaking for anyone. It seems like people’s perception (or some people’s) is that A hockey or playing in the A state tournament is a similar experience or accomplishment as AA. Therefore, (I’ll use Section 8 as an example), when teams like Roseau and Bemidji see Warroad going to state at youth levels and even winning a state tournament they think to themselves that those kids had a better experience than our kids who sit home nearly every year. It’ll happen again this year where Warroad’s bantam and PeeWee teams will compete for an A state title and Roseau’s teams with roughly the same talent have a good chance of going home. After a while parents start to wonder why don’t we do that? It looks more fun. Same thing with high school. Last year Roseau and Bemidji were 5-6 seeds and both were dispatched in the first round. Had they been in 8A they would have been 1 seed(either of them) and likely went down to state and competed for a title.
I’m not saying I agree with that way of thinking but that is my understanding of it. To me it seems like so many things in life have become more about mommy and daddy’s Facebook post about Johnny going to state than the actual accomplishment or meaning of what was done.
And while the three teams in 8A that you mentioned might keep scores respectable most of the time the amount that they win 8AA is probably limited to 1-2 times a decade between the 3 of them. The best chance they had this decade was 13-15 EGF or Warroad. But those were far from guaranteed.
The A vs AA gap has grown. It is pronounced. Look at pagestat rankings as a reference. Orono was 32 and Alex 41 in the final rankings last year.
Perhaps the finest post ever drafted here! Thank you sir for sharing a valued opinion. All the best to CEC hockey!!Alumni30 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:01 pm First, let me say that I am a first time poster but have read this forum for years. For the most part I really enjoy reading what everyone has to say about most topics on here. With that said, let me just offer an opinion on this specific subject. Remember this is my opinion only.
As a one time coach in the high school ranks at Cloquet years ago, I don’t see them making the switch down to Class A hockey. Obviously things have probably changed a lot since I was last involved in the program and with that a new mind set in the way of thinking is definitely possible, but class AA hockey in that community is a huge deal and a lot of pride was associated with playing the “big schools”. Sure we wanted to win and play in the tournament every year but it was so much more than that. The boys learned that you have to work hard to compete at the highest level whether that was on the rink or in life and more often than not things aren’t going to be easy to achieve the ultimate goal. The history is there for Lumberjack hockey to play at and continue to play at the highest level regardless of the enrollments of Cloquet, Esko and Carlton. It’s not all about winning, it’s about working hard on and off the ice and learning valuable life lessons along the way as well as having fun and remembering things aren’t always going to be or come easy to reach your goals. Again, this post is my opinion only.
Very interesting perspective and a lot of merit to it. Conceptually it would be nice for two from the N and one from the S, but that ship has mostly sailed as one from the S is often suburban. Toss in a program like St. Michael-Albertville (last year) or Elk River and Andover (possibly this) and you could similarly see the Metro teams "rob" the two Northern sections of their berth.StanleyCup55 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:30 amThe need to have 2 strong northern sections is imperative to the success HS hockey state tournament and having it stay as big of a deal as it is... which is completely incredible but if it becomes all city teams (like MSHSL football) then you won’t have as many fans coming that don’t have a team in the tourney.
For years the 3 "best teams" came from REGIONS 7 & 8 and their runner-up.O-townClown wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:15 amVery interesting perspective and a lot of merit to it. Conceptually it would be nice for two from the N and one from the S, but that ship has mostly sailed as one from the S is often suburban. Toss in a program like St. Michael-Albertville (last year) or Elk River and Andover (possibly this) and you could similarly see the Metro teams "rob" the two Northern sections of their berth.StanleyCup55 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:30 amThe need to have 2 strong northern sections is imperative to the success HS hockey state tournament and having it stay as big of a deal as it is... which is completely incredible but if it becomes all city teams (like MSHSL football) then you won’t have as many fans coming that don’t have a team in the tourney.
The sentiment from folks in loaded Sections like II and VI is that the tournament would be better with the "eight best" teams. Hmmmm.
Cost isn't just a 218 issue oldtimer. It effects the sport across the board. I think your perception that Metro associations play games within a 10-20 minute commute is a bit of a reach. Sure there are some of those games, but have you ever tried to drive across the metro to get to a 6 PM game? A 40 mile drive can easily take an hour and a half. I do agree 4 to 5 trips a season which includes hotel stays does increase the cost, but are 218 teams at squirts and PW's really making that many trips? District 10 has games that are much further than a 10-20 minute drive (Rogers to Chicago Lakes or Mora as an example), not to mention the district director "forced" teams to travel to luverne to play a district game at PWA level, a four hour drive for most associations... In addition, two out of town tournaments. I am not disputing what you are saying, I agree with you, just saying it is not just a 218 issue. Do keep yours eyes fully open though as even including the type of schedule you mention, the cost is WAY lower then in other parts of the country. It also doesn't help that the cost of a stick is $300 and skates $1000, of course these are top end, but the cost of gear has also increased dramatically even for the mid to low range gear. I hate to spoil your stereo type, but not all metro's are filthy rich and loaded. Many of the parents in the 763, 612, and 651 have the same financial difficulties, especially the older communites. Of course I am excluding Edina!northwoods oldtimer wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:55 am I think 218 needs to figure out how to make hockey affordable to a greater group of athletes than currently is getting culled from all the communities.
We are so busy trying to keep up with the metro teams its getting far too pricey for young families to afford the sport.
Do we really need to run our squirt teams down to the metro to play 4 - 5 X per year? It it too expensive a price to force on families with the added hotel and meal costs. Metro associations have the luxury of a 10-20 minute commute to games on a weekend and this gives time for the kids to get out and skate unorganized play to a larger degree and parents are not burdened by the commitment of hockey as heavily as the grind is for their northern parent counterpart. Plus the metro is smart about limiting teams to one travel weekend while north teams race for 4 to 5 trips to metro every winter from squirt through HS. It gets to be attrition on family budgets and each year progresses. Add to it multiple kids playing and see the budget get out of hand.
There is ample time to lock horns with the metro area teams as you grown older but we need to go back to what Herb Brooks was always pleading "keep the youth base large". We are snobs for turning a blue collar sport into an elite white collar sport it's sad to see happen. Good athletes and some of your very best are not playing because they cannot afford to play period.
@StanleyCup55 is 100 percent accurate on his observations.
Me too.
13-14 was a good year for EGF and Warroad. I think either one of them could have won 8AA that year. The 8A section championship game could have well been the state championship as EGF beat Hermantown, and I have little doubt Warroad would have had they gone instead. Both teams matched up favorably against a squad like Hermantown for different reasons.7TIMECHAMPS wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:52 pm And while the three teams in 8A that you mentioned might keep scores respectable most of the time the amount that they win 8AA is probably limited to 1-2 times a decade between the 3 of them. The best chance they had this decade was 13-15 EGF or Warroad. But those were far from guaranteed.
elliott70 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:35 pm There is about an 80% chance that your AA state tourney will have these teams
Edina
Duluth East
Lakeville North or South
Hill
STA
Eden Prairie or Minnetonka
Maple Grove or Blaine
Moorhead
Section 8 gives us the most chance for a variation.
So Class AAA could be with these eleven and add in Wayzata, Grand Rapids, Stillwater, Bemidji, Roseau, Eagan and Apple Valley.
In the last ten years these are the teams that have played more than once in the state tourney.
Another nine or so teams have been there once.
About 15% of the AA 64 teams are there 80% of the time.
Hermantown is about the only team I can think of that can crack into that lineup.
Every other AA team may want to consider single A.
Speechless. No idea what your point is?kniven wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:11 pm Yes. I realize the 2 East games would be gone each year. Enter....the Hermantown Hawks. Virginia Blue Devils. Greenway Raiders. Warroad. East Grand Forks. Etc. hopefully other program that opt up would see through the blah, blah, blah. Kids just want to have fun. You know. Remember being a kid. All this blah, blah, blah adult crap. You are not playing, but kids are. Give me a break. Hermantown fans. Could you help me out here.
kniven wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:11 pm Yes. I realize the 2 East games would be gone each year. Enter....the Hermantown Hawks. Virginia Blue Devils. Greenway Raiders. Warroad. East Grand Forks. Etc. hopefully other program that opt up would see through the blah, blah, blah. Kids just want to have fun. You know. Remember being a kid. All this blah, blah, blah adult crap. You are not playing, but kids are. Give me a break. Hermantown fans. Could you help me out here.