Duluth East at Andover, Section 7AA Final

[elliott70]

Or Duluth Marshall could improve to a top 4 team in 7AA. I’ve heard a rumor that Andover might get moved and replaced with Brainerd. That would make for one hell of a semifinal Saturday. Brainerd is a growing hockey community and has the stability at head coach to be relevant for a long time. They have a good fan base and people there are used to travel to Duluth. There was a good rivalry going in the mid 2000’s with GR and Brainerd, though the Worriers never won then.

I don't understand why Brainerd people are used to traveling to Duluth?

[hockey59]

Or Duluth Marshall could improve to a top 4 team in 7AA. I’ve heard a rumor that Andover might get moved and replaced with Brainerd. That would make for one hell of a semifinal Saturday. Brainerd is a growing hockey community and has the stability at head coach to be relevant for a long time. They have a good fan base and people there are used to travel to Duluth. There was a good rivalry going in the mid 2000’s with GR and Brainerd, though the Worriers never won then.

I don't understand why Brainerd people are used to traveling to Duluth?

ER should be in 8AA, Andover in 5AA, Centennial in 4AA & TG in 4AA or 5AA. That would leave 7 teams in 7AA, just give the top seed a opening round bie, it’s ususually a 10-1 game anyway Or move Brainerd to 7AA, they are a lot farther NORTH than Andover, anyone who can read a map can see this...

[mnmouth]

Or Duluth Marshall could improve to a top 4 team in 7AA. I’ve heard a rumor that Andover might get moved and replaced with Brainerd. That would make for one hell of a semifinal Saturday. Brainerd is a growing hockey community and has the stability at head coach to be relevant for a long time. They have a good fan base and people there are used to travel to Duluth. There was a good rivalry going in the mid 2000’s with GR and Brainerd, though the Worriers never won then.

**Brainerd folks have a much easier drive to St. Cloud when they need the amenities of a larger city.**

I don't understand why Brainerd people are used to traveling to Duluth?

ER should be in 8AA, Andover in 5AA, Centennial in 4AA & TG in 4AA or 5AA. That would leave 7 teams in 7AA, just give the top seed a opening round bie, it’s ususually a 10-1 game anyway Or move Brainerd to 7AA, they are a lot farther NORTH than Andover, anyone who can read a map can see this...

Move Brainerd and/or Hermantown (ultimate section pipe dream) to 7AA and it's done deal

[Section 8 guy]

What would happen if they moved the 7AA final to the X? DJ would be happy because it is a better arena and all the northern fans would keep their mouths shut because the game is played on the ice right?

Seriously I always root for northern teams but some of the arguments made for keeping it at Amsoil are just ridiculous. The game should be at a neutral site. In games where the margin of error is razor thin any small advantage can be the difference. To deny that is just not logical and shows clouded judgement.

Also, the game should be about what is fair and equitable to the kids. NOT the best fan experience.

This is from an outsider with no horse in the race. Easy call.

In section 8 if Roseau had to play a section final against Bemidji at Sanford or Moorhead at Scheels Arena I would be disappointed too.

100% this. Especially the bolded part.

[Section 8 guy]

Or Duluth Marshall could improve to a top 4 team in 7AA. I’ve heard a rumor that Andover might get moved and replaced with Brainerd. That would make for one hell of a semifinal Saturday. Brainerd is a growing hockey community and has the stability at head coach to be relevant for a long time. They have a good fan base and people there are used to travel to Duluth. There was a good rivalry going in the mid 2000’s with GR and Brainerd, though the Worriers never won then.

Brainerds AA youth teams aren’t very competive. This was likely their year for a while.

[StanleyCup55]

What would happen if they moved the 7AA final to the X? DJ would be happy because it is a better arena and all the northern fans would keep their mouths shut because the game is played on the ice right?

Seriously I always root for northern teams but some of the arguments made for keeping it at Amsoil are just ridiculous. The game should be at a neutral site. In games where the margin of error is razor thin any small advantage can be the difference. To deny that is just not logical and shows clouded judgement.

Also, the game should be about what is fair and equitable to the kids. NOT the best fan experience.

This is from an outsider with no horse in the race. Easy call.

In section 8 if Roseau had to play a section final against Bemidji at Sanford or Moorhead at Scheels Arena I would be disappointed too.

100% this. Especially the bolded part.

The way to make it the most fair is to go Tier 1 and Tier 2. That is what truly gives teams the best chance to make it and play in a state tournament on any given year. The only argument I ever hear against Tiers is the Rosemount one win team that made it. So what? That’s what it all about. Any team having a chance to play in St. Paul. But no, the fans can’t get as excited about that so we gotta have designated class system with AA teams beating up on small schools still. But everyone turns a blind eye to it.

Tier 1 and Tier 2 save HS hockey in Minnesota. Class A and AA kill it.

[blueblood]

CupGuy:

What’s your definition of Tier 1 and 2?

[elliott70]

CupGuy:

What’s your definition of Tier 1 and 2?

How old are you stanleycup?
Obviously you do not remember Tier 2.
It rewarded failure. I have no problem with redesigning the system to allow smaller, weaker programs but Tier 2 di not promote anything but losing.
coaches going into a game, players going into a game thinking it is not important to win because if we lose we will qualify for a tournament that gives us a chance to go to state. Perhaps you have never participated in anything competitively.
Giving your best is what should be promoted not getting a chance at something for showing up and worse, for losing.
Rosemount is an example of 8 reasons why it was not good.

[TheHockeyDJ]

CupGuy:

What’s your definition of Tier 1 and 2?

How old are you stanleycup?
Obviously you do not remember Tier 2.
It rewarded failure. I have no problem with redesigning the system to allow smaller, weaker programs but Tier 2 di not promote anything but losing.
coaches going into a game, players going into a game thinking it is not important to win because if we lose we will qualify for a tournament that gives us a chance to go to state. Perhaps you have never participated in anything competitively.
Giving your best is what should be promoted not getting a chance at something for showing up and worse, for losing.
Rosemount is an example of 8 reasons why it was not good.

Sounds like the QRF. That ranking system should be banned from the entire MSHL forever.

[That guy for that thing]

CupGuy:

What’s your definition of Tier 1 and 2?

How old are you stanleycup?
Obviously you do not remember Tier 2.
It rewarded failure. I have no problem with redesigning the system to allow smaller, weaker programs but Tier 2 di not promote anything but losing.
coaches going into a game, players going into a game thinking it is not important to win because if we lose we will qualify for a tournament that gives us a chance to go to state. Perhaps you have never participated in anything competitively.
Giving your best is what should be promoted not getting a chance at something for showing up and worse, for losing.
Rosemount is an example of 8 reasons why it was not good.

Sounds like the QRF. That ranking system should be banned from the entire MSHL forever.

How so? In what way does QRF promote losing in order to get down to a weaker half of the rankings in order to not play the best teams?

[TheHockeyDJ]

How old are you stanleycup?
Obviously you do not remember Tier 2.
It rewarded failure. I have no problem with redesigning the system to allow smaller, weaker programs but Tier 2 di not promote anything but losing.
coaches going into a game, players going into a game thinking it is not important to win because if we lose we will qualify for a tournament that gives us a chance to go to state. Perhaps you have never participated in anything competitively.
Giving your best is what should be promoted not getting a chance at something for showing up and worse, for losing.
Rosemount is an example of 8 reasons why it was not good.

Sounds like the QRF. That ranking system should be banned from the entire MSHL forever.

How so? In what way does QRF promote losing in order to get down to a weaker half of the rankings in order to not play the best teams?

It means sandbagging in terms of playing a weak schedule. Forest Lake was an awful team all year and hosted a quarterfinal. They did not have 1 quality win the entire season, and against the 7AA teams that were seeded 1-7 around them they went winless. When the 7AA coaches voted sometimes a team didn't get the seed they deserved, but you never saw an obvious 7 seed end up at 4. As Karl(East) said on the podcast, it is ridiculous also to punish a team in their rating simply for playing Hermantown because they are Class A even though everyone knows they would have been top 10 all year if they were Class AA.

[That guy for that thing]

Sounds like the QRF. That ranking system should be banned from the entire MSHL forever.

How so? In what way does QRF promote losing in order to get down to a weaker half of the rankings in order to not play the best teams?

It means sandbagging in terms of playing a weak schedule. Forest Lake was an awful team all year and hosted a quarterfinal. They did not have 1 quality win the entire season, and against the 7AA teams that were seeded 1-7 around them they went winless. When the 7AA coaches voted sometimes a team didn't get the seed they deserved, but you never saw an obvious 7 seed end up at 4. As Karl(East) said on the podcast, it is ridiculous also to punish a team in their rating simply for playing Hermantown because they are Class A even though everyone knows they would have been top 10 all year if they were Class AA.

AH, ok. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. If we compare the three computer rankings that people use on the forums here, we see oddly different results. Happy's is only based on wins, Pagestat seams to be the most liked and QRF gets a bad rap that is well deserved. 1 I think isn't looked at at all is MyHockeyRankings. They have a ton of different leagues and they use a fairly simple formula. Avg SOS + Avg Goal Diff. It at least has Flake below Rapids and ER, and Hastings below LVS and LVN. You can combine A and AA or keep them separate. I think that would be interesting to monitor over the season instead of QRF.

https://myhockeyrankings.com/rank.php?y=2018&a=4&v=701

[hockey59]

It was a great atmosphere last night and being a UMD alum I think Amsoil is an awesome arena & training facility for the Bulldogs...but after spending the previous four years Thursday nights watching 5AA section Finals at Aldrich...I have to give the nod to Aldrich for excitement & atmosphere, as someone noted, it’s like a mini version of the old Met Center, the rink, the way the building appears when you drive up to it and the parking lot

2016, I went to the Finals at both Amsoil and Aldrich. Aldrich cannot compete with Amsoil Arena in any way. Amsoil has the nicest lobby arguably in the NCAA, and going to the 4AA final the next night it was 10 degrees outside which is where you wait before they open the gates. Aldrich is a regular season building. Coming from 7AA where the stage gets bigger in the semi's and finals being in an NCAA building, it is a major let down going to a just nice regular season building for a section title game. Add in flat benches instead of theatre style seats, no food scene anywhere near the arena at Aldrich, the experience is bland at best. The energy inside the building was great, don't get me wrong, but you also don't have enough seating to meet the demand for tickets.

Another reason Aldrich is a better venue than Amsoil for a section final...players climbing on TOP of the boards...as part of the postgame celebration with their student section https://www.twincities.com/wp-content/u ... .jpg?w=620

[That guy for that thing]

It was a great atmosphere last night and being a UMD alum I think Amsoil is an awesome arena & training facility for the Bulldogs...but after spending the previous four years Thursday nights watching 5AA section Finals at Aldrich...I have to give the nod to Aldrich for excitement & atmosphere, as someone noted, it’s like a mini version of the old Met Center, the rink, the way the building appears when you drive up to it and the parking lot

2016, I went to the Finals at both Amsoil and Aldrich. Aldrich cannot compete with Amsoil Arena in any way. Amsoil has the nicest lobby arguably in the NCAA, and going to the 4AA final the next night it was 10 degrees outside which is where you wait before they open the gates. Aldrich is a regular season building. Coming from 7AA where the stage gets bigger in the semi's and finals being in an NCAA building, it is a major let down going to a just nice regular season building for a section title game. Add in flat benches instead of theatre style seats, no food scene anywhere near the arena at Aldrich, the experience is bland at best. The energy inside the building was great, don't get me wrong, but you also don't have enough seating to meet the demand for tickets.

Another reason Aldrich is a better venue than Amsoil for a section final...players climbing on TOP of the boards...as part of the postgame celebration with their student section https://www.twincities.com/wp-content/u ... .jpg?w=620

I think 7AA may be trying to avoid student celebrations for a while. DEast kids were almost trampling students last year in those bleachers on the end of Amsoil. I was surprised when DEasat was put on that end again for student section as you would think the home and away ends would be set before the teams have been decided.

[green4]

At risk of getting hockeyDJ going again, but did anyone hear the Elk River guy call into KFAN to ask Lou Nanne about if it was fair that the section final is at Amsoil when East keeps winning?
Louie’s answer was basically that home ice isn’t that much of an advantage in hockey, but did mention that he was talking about in NHL playoffs compared to high school and how that might be different.
The part that was surprisingly was that he said him and Willard Ikola were talking about it and they had some inside info that 7AA might not be at Amsoil in about 4 or 5 years.
I might disagree with DJ about how wonderful Duluth is in the winter and if Amsoil is really America’s number one hockey experience, but I just don’t see that section final moving, nor probably should it.
Just curious to see if anyone else heard that topic on KFAN or maybe see if someone wants to admit they called in

[mnmouth]

At risk of getting hockeyDJ going again, but did anyone hear the Elk River guy call into KFAN to ask Lou Nanne about if it was fair that the section final is at Amsoil when East keeps winning?
Louie’s answer was basically that home ice isn’t that much of an advantage in hockey, but did mention that he was talking about in NHL playoffs compared to high school and how that might be different.
The part that was surprisingly was that he said him and Willard Ikola were talking about it and they had some inside info that 7AA might not be at Amsoil in about 4 or 5 years.
I might disagree with DJ about how wonderful Duluth is in the winter and if Amsoil is really America’s number one hockey experience, but I just don’t see that section final moving, nor probably should it.
Just curious to see if anyone else heard that topic on KFAN or maybe see if someone wants to admit they called in

I heard it. Didn't call in.

But I agree that home ice may not be much of an advantage. Just ask the Hibbing players who lost in the section final in 1981, 1988, 1997 and 1999. All at the Hibbing Memorial Building.

[hockey59]

At risk of getting hockeyDJ going again, but did anyone hear the Elk River guy call into KFAN to ask Lou Nanne about if it was fair that the section final is at Amsoil when East keeps winning?
Louie’s answer was basically that home ice isn’t that much of an advantage in hockey, but did mention that he was talking about in NHL playoffs compared to high school and how that might be different.
The part that was surprisingly was that he said him and Willard Ikola were talking about it and they had some inside info that 7AA might not be at Amsoil in about 4 or 5 years.
I might disagree with DJ about how wonderful Duluth is in the winter and if Amsoil is really America’s number one hockey experience, but I just don’t see that section final moving, nor probably should it.
Just curious to see if anyone else heard that topic on KFAN or maybe see if someone wants to admit they called in

I heard it. Didn't call in.

But I agree that home ice may not be much of an advantage. Just ask the Hibbing players who lost in the section final in 1981, 1988, 1997 and 1999. All at the Hibbing Memorial Building.

That’s not the point. The argument is the Section Final in 7AA should be played at a neutral site (or at least rotated to SCSU rink) every other year...and there’s no objective reason not to schedule it this way...as long as Andover, ER, Cambridge, St Francis & Forest Lake...constitute the numerical majority of 7AA teams

[mnmouth]

At risk of getting hockeyDJ going again, but did anyone hear the Elk River guy call into KFAN to ask Lou Nanne about if it was fair that the section final is at Amsoil when East keeps winning?
Louie’s answer was basically that home ice isn’t that much of an advantage in hockey, but did mention that he was talking about in NHL playoffs compared to high school and how that might be different.
The part that was surprisingly was that he said him and Willard Ikola were talking about it and they had some inside info that 7AA might not be at Amsoil in about 4 or 5 years.
I might disagree with DJ about how wonderful Duluth is in the winter and if Amsoil is really America’s number one hockey experience, but I just don’t see that section final moving, nor probably should it.
Just curious to see if anyone else heard that topic on KFAN or maybe see if someone wants to admit they called in

I heard it. Didn't call in.

But I agree that home ice may not be much of an advantage. Just ask the Hibbing players who lost in the section final in 1981, 1988, 1997 and 1999. All at the Hibbing Memorial Building.

That’s not the point . . .

However, home ice not being much of an advantage is Louie’s point.

[hockey59]

I heard it. Didn't call in.

But I agree that home ice may not be much of an advantage. Just ask the Hibbing players who lost in the section final in 1981, 1988, 1997 and 1999. All at the Hibbing Memorial Building.

That’s not the point . . .

However, home ice not being much of an advantage is Louie’s point.

We’ll if Louie thinks so Louie also thinks his Grandson is in the same zip code (as a player) as Scott Perunovich...when the only thing they actually have in common.. is both are less than 6 feet tall

[Duluthguy]

At risk of getting hockeyDJ going again, but did anyone hear the Elk River guy call into KFAN to ask Lou Nanne about if it was fair that the section final is at Amsoil when East keeps winning?
Louie’s answer was basically that home ice isn’t that much of an advantage in hockey, but did mention that he was talking about in NHL playoffs compared to high school and how that might be different.
The part that was surprisingly was that he said him and Willard Ikola were talking about it and they had some inside info that 7AA might not be at Amsoil in about 4 or 5 years.
I might disagree with DJ about how wonderful Duluth is in the winter and if Amsoil is really America’s number one hockey experience, but I just don’t see that section final moving, nor probably should it.
Just curious to see if anyone else heard that topic on KFAN or maybe see if someone wants to admit they called in

I heard it. Didn't call in.

But I agree that home ice may not be much of an advantage. Just ask the Hibbing players who lost in the section final in 1981, 1988, 1997 and 1999. All at the Hibbing Memorial Building.

That’s not the point. The argument is the Section Final in 7AA should be played at a neutral site (or at least rotated to SCSU rink) every other year...and there’s no objective reason not to schedule it this way...as long as Andover, ER, Cambridge, St Francis & Forest Lake...constitute the numerical majority of 7AA teams

The other day, I happened to run into an administrator who is deeply involved in discussions on where to hold the semi-finals and finals. This person acknowledged Amsoil is an imperfect location, but that the the coaches—even the southern ones—would rather play in Duluth than on an Olympic sheet like that at SCSU, and that other venues, including the MAC, don’t have the seating capacity. Those are the main reasons—along with the TV element—why the game remains at Amsoil, according to this individual.

[That guy for that thing]

I heard it. Didn't call in.

But I agree that home ice may not be much of an advantage. Just ask the Hibbing players who lost in the section final in 1981, 1988, 1997 and 1999. All at the Hibbing Memorial Building.

That’s not the point. The argument is the Section Final in 7AA should be played at a neutral site (or at least rotated to SCSU rink) every other year...and there’s no objective reason not to schedule it this way...as long as Andover, ER, Cambridge, St Francis & Forest Lake...constitute the numerical majority of 7AA teams

The other day, I happened to run into an administrator who is deeply involved in discussions on where to hold the semi-finals and finals. This person acknowledged Amsoil is an imperfect location, but that the the coaches—even the southern ones—would rather play in Duluth than on an Olympic sheet like that at SCSU, and that other venues, including the MAC, don’t have the seating capacity. Those are the main reasons—along with the TV element—why the game remains at Amsoil, according to this individual.

I still think a Friday night final would be better. Section 4 does it, why not 7AA. It allows for parents to get a hotel in Duluth, which is not a bad travel area, hotel/food wise and allows for the kids to come because they dont have to worry about class the next day. It is far easier on everyone to not have to worry about the next morning for travel like this. Hell even Section 8, 6 and 1 could use something like this because they have such a far distance to travel on a Thursday night.

[mnmouth]

That’s not the point. The argument is the Section Final in 7AA should be played at a neutral site (or at least rotated to SCSU rink) every other year...and there’s no objective reason not to schedule it this way...as long as Andover, ER, Cambridge, St Francis & Forest Lake...constitute the numerical majority of 7AA teams

The other day, I happened to run into an administrator who is deeply involved in discussions on where to hold the semi-finals and finals. This person acknowledged Amsoil is an imperfect location, but that the the coaches—even the southern ones—would rather play in Duluth than on an Olympic sheet like that at SCSU, and that other venues, including the MAC, don’t have the seating capacity. Those are the main reasons—along with the TV element—why the game remains at Amsoil, according to this individual.

I still think a Friday night final would be better. Section 4 does it, why not 7AA. It allows for parents to get a hotel in Duluth, which is not a bad travel area, hotel/food wise and allows for the kids to come because they dont have to worry about class the next day. It is far easier on everyone to not have to worry about the next morning for travel like this. Hell even Section 8, 6 and 1 could use something like this because they have such a far distance to travel on a Thursday night.

Yes! Time to break from the Thursday night tradition.

[Where is F3?]

I heard it. Didn't call in.

But I agree that home ice may not be much of an advantage. Just ask the Hibbing players who lost in the section final in 1981, 1988, 1997 and 1999. All at the Hibbing Memorial Building.

That’s not the point. The argument is the Section Final in 7AA should be played at a neutral site (or at least rotated to SCSU rink) every other year...and there’s no objective reason not to schedule it this way...as long as Andover, ER, Cambridge, St Francis & Forest Lake...constitute the numerical majority of 7AA teams

The other day, I happened to run into an administrator who is deeply involved in discussions on where to hold the semi-finals and finals. This person acknowledged Amsoil is an imperfect location, but that the the coaches—even the southern ones—would rather play in Duluth than on an Olympic sheet like that at SCSU, and that other venues, including the MAC, don’t have the seating capacity. Those are the main reasons—along with the TV element—why the game remains at Amsoil, according to this individual.

This is a huge reason HS games don't get played at SCSU anymore. Both Cathedral and the Public Co-op in St. Cloud play at the MAC.

[HSPuckFan96]

Brainerd in 7AA makes sense, they are closer to Duluth than ER and Andover. ER is in section 8 for almost everything, other than hockey

[elliott70]

Brainerd in 7AA makes sense, they are closer to Duluth than ER and Andover. ER is in section 8 for almost everything, other than hockey

Brainerd should be in 8AA, they are closer to Bemidji and St Cloud than Grand Rapids and Duluth.

Grand Rapids should be in 8AA. (other than tradition)