Last 16 State Winners: Rank 'Em

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karl(east)
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Re: Last 16 State Winners: Rank 'Em

Post by karl(east) » Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:55 pm

I might have been too flippant in calling 2013 Edina a younger version of the 2014 team. That group certainly depended on its veteran defense much more than 2014, which by the end of the season was just dominant in every facet. The fact that they had players like Meyer and Fuss sitting around on JV in 13 shows just how deep they were. Long story short, the amount of dominant talent on those two teams, and the ease with which they replaced the 2013 grads, led them to blur somewhat in my mind.

That said, despite them being the 3-seed in 2013, I don't recall having much doubt that they were the favorite heading into State. Maybe it felt different as a Hornet fan, but I thought they were in pretty thorough control of the final against Hill. East, which had beaten them in the regular season to earn the 2-seed, gave them a pretty good run in the semis, but in watching that game it was pretty obvious which group had the superior talent. I do recall that very narrow escape against Jefferson in the section semis; can't say I have much recollection of the final with Burnsville.

DanFromWoodbury
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Re: Last 16 State Winners: Rank 'Em

Post by DanFromWoodbury » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:16 pm

Went to college in the early 2000s and it took me until the latter part of the decade to start following HS hockey again. I missed the appealing, yet bizarre, string of come-from-nowhere champions: Blaine, ER, HA, Anoka, Centennial, HA again, then Cretin! And book-ended by Roseau 'ships on either side! (Obviously Roseau is one of, if not THE, most storied programs in MN, but moving to AA and winning it all twice in 8 years is insane) High School hockey in MN has for decades seemed similar to college football/basketball, in that at the end of the year only a handful of programs seem to have a real shot at a title. But that stretch between 2000-2006 seems so strange. And of all of them, the Anoka title sticks out as the most improbable. Of course all these title winners had to have good youth classes prior to high school. Aside from that, any outside factors that contributed to the oddity of that decade? I'm very curious if anyone has any thoughts/theories on this. Thanks, DFW.

WestMetro
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Re: Last 16 State Winners: Rank 'Em

Post by WestMetro » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:27 pm

Karl- in reply to DFW, you better ban discussion of the origins of the Holy Angels regime , for fear of inciting riots among the HS hockey community on the eve of the greatest week in the sport

O-townClown
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Re: Last 16 State Winners: Rank 'Em

Post by O-townClown » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:57 pm

DanFromWoodbury wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:16 pm
But that stretch between 2000-2006 seems so strange.
Really? 4 different teams from the Northwest during a run when demographics were favorable for that area and a private school twice.
Be kind. Rewind.

karl(east)
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Re: Last 16 State Winners: Rank 'Em

Post by karl(east) » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:25 pm

DanFromWoodbury wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:16 pm
Went to college in the early 2000s and it took me until the latter part of the decade to start following HS hockey again. I missed the appealing, yet bizarre, string of come-from-nowhere champions: Blaine, ER, HA, Anoka, Centennial, HA again, then Cretin! And book-ended by Roseau 'ships on either side! (Obviously Roseau is one of, if not THE, most storied programs in MN, but moving to AA and winning it all twice in 8 years is insane) High School hockey in MN has for decades seemed similar to college football/basketball, in that at the end of the year only a handful of programs seem to have a real shot at a title. But that stretch between 2000-2006 seems so strange. And of all of them, the Anoka title sticks out as the most improbable. Of course all these title winners had to have good youth classes prior to high school. Aside from that, any outside factors that contributed to the oddity of that decade? I'm very curious if anyone has any thoughts/theories on this. Thanks, DFW.
At the risk of opening up the can of worms WestMetro mentioned, I'll take a stab at this one.

While I think OTown is right that it's not as crazy as it might now look, it was a unique time, and if you look at the rosters from that era, the state champs were often not quite as deep in terms of front-end talent as they were in the 90s or this past decade. I'd argue this is because the landscape changed suddenly, and very quickly. Two things really happened:

1. Kids started leaving HS early for juniors/NTDP with some regularity
2. Private schools other than Hill became good

The junior departures, at the very beginning, seemed to affect the top teams more than the middle tier. Duluth East, for example, was losing a kid a year in those earlier days, when it wasn't as common as it is now; that probably took the Hounds from being the dynastic team they were from 94-98 to one that was merely pretty good and lost in sections as often as it went to state over the next decade. This had the general effect of driving down the talent in the deepest programs, which opened the door to others. (Nowadays, on the other hand, kids on top-end teams might be more likely to stick around, whereas playing out through one's senior year on a mediocre team might be viewed as a less justifiable decision for one's development.)

The private schools, meanwhile, were I think both a product of the two-class split (they were mostly small, and before long people realized they could collect talent and quickly win in Class A) and the overwhelming depth of the elite programs. In the 90s, it wasn't uncommon for kids to play JV as sophomores for Bloomington Jefferson or Duluth East and then go on to play D-I. It was somewhat more attractive for some of them to go be stars as sophomores or even freshmen elsewhere. This spread the talent some and opened the door.

The Holy Angels case was especially unique, as Greg Trebil, the longtime bantam coach at Jefferson, left for Holy Angels and took a bunch of kids with him. As a result, the state's premier program from the late 80s-late 90s dropped off, and AHA rose in its place. Jefferson has never really recovered from that, and AHA's run came to a close when Trebil left the building.

Otherwise, I'd refer you to my essay from a couple years back on the progression of hockey talent in the metro: https://apatientcycle.com/2015/03/18/a- ... ol-hockey/

The northwest suburban area was on the mature edge of urban development then, as Lakeville and Plymouth have been this decade, and Stillwater or St. Michael or Minnetrista may be next decade. Edina, meanwhile, went through a down patch; I don't have demographics in front of me but I'm guessing the city turned over in that time period from one generation to a new one with more kids, which fed their return to powerhouse status since 2007 or so. As I say in the article, Edina and East (and maybe Moorhead, sort of?) are the only real exceptions to the metro area development rule, while the smaller northern towns are reliant on occasional surges of talent to make their runs.

The private school get-rich-quick route has also run its course to some extent now, I think. A lot of the hockey-hungry private schools have made the leap to AA, either out of ambition or in response to pressure. While one or two more may come along at some point, the privates left in A right now, excepting maybe Cathedral, don't seem to have much interest in hockey.

If I were to offer a mild update to that urbanism piece now, it would be that I'm more convinced that certain teams that are now good might remain good for longer than they might have in previous development waves, largely due to national trends in concentration of wealth in certain areas (namely, the southwest metro).

DanFromWoodbury
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Re: Last 16 State Winners: Rank 'Em

Post by DanFromWoodbury » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:38 pm

As James Carville once said in response to Will Ferrell, "That was perfect." Btw, I wasn't trying to take anything away from those state champs at the beginning of the 2000s. Thanks Karl.

DubCHAGuy
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Re: Last 16 State Winners: Rank 'Em

Post by DubCHAGuy » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:50 pm

The north suburbs were pretty dominant in the late 90's early 2000's. Much like how the west side is today. Anoka was runner-up to East in 98. They then gave way to the loaded Blaine teams (Hendricks, Bochenski, Frischmon, Foyt and company) in 1999-2000. While Elk River took 3rd in 99 (out of section 7) and won it all in 2001. The real shame is the 2000 Elks (Paul Martin's senior season) were probably one of the top 5 teams in Minnesota history, but sadly they'll never be mentioned due to the stunning upset loss to Osseo in the section semi-finals that year. They beat Blaine 8-0 and 7-1 during the season, and Blaine went on to win the AA title with the Elks out of the way. Then Add Centennial in 2004 and Totino Grace 2002 on the A side. The north side was pretty stacked during that era.

On the topic I'm a little surprised by the lack of love for the 2003 Anoka squad. Must be a lot of young posters here. That team didn't have any big time future D1/NHL players that I can remember but they were perhaps the speediest team up and down the lineup on this list of 16. They won some thrilling games too. I'd say they were #2 on the list from a sheer entertainment value, only behind 2007 Roseau. That Rams team looked like they were playing pond hockey with their tic tac toe goals and Aaron Ness at the time was in a category with Paul Martin and Mike Crowley with how he controlled the game as a defensemen.

2006 Cretin was the most boring team on the list. They just shut everyone down and didn't add much for style. And through no fault of their own I don't think they played any close or exciting games either.

All that said, my vote for the #1 spot is 2015 Lakeville North. They had elite talent at every position, yet played with a ton of grit and heart. You'd have to go back to the Jefferson dynasty to find a team that deep with talent.

hockey59
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Re: Last 16 State Winners: Rank 'Em

Post by hockey59 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:39 am

WestMetro wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:30 pm
I will say - that if I go by which one do I think about most often and catch myself smiling ,
it’s definitely Grand Rapids 2017 . The drama of events surrounding that team in 2016 and 2017 , Section 7AA Kniven streamed final game , combined with the history and the all northern final at the X
As we all know, the Champ@ionship game in 2017 was actually played between GR & EP in the semi-finals...same as in 1996 between Apple Valley & DE 😉

hockey59
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Re: Last 16 State Winners: Rank 'Em

Post by hockey59 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:03 am

DanFromWoodbury wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:16 pm
Went to college in the early 2000s and it took me until the latter part of the decade to start following HS hockey again. I missed the appealing, yet bizarre, string of come-from-nowhere champions: Blaine, ER, HA, Anoka, Centennial, HA again, then Cretin! And book-ended by Roseau 'ships on either side! (Obviously Roseau is one of, if not THE, most storied programs in MN, but moving to AA and winning it all twice in 8 years is insane) High School hockey in MN has for decades seemed similar to college football/basketball, in that at the end of the year only a handful of programs seem to have a real shot at a title. But that stretch between 2000-2006 seems so strange. And of all of them, the Anoka title sticks out as the most improbable. Of course all these title winners had to have good youth classes prior to high school. Aside from that, any outside factors that contributed to the oddity of that decade? I'm very curious if anyone has any thoughts/theories on this. Thanks, DFW.
The 2003 Anoka team got by a good DE team when DE iced the puck with 16 seconds to go and Ben Hendrick walked the DE center on the ensuing faceoff and scored on a shot from his knees. In the semifinals they played defending State Champions AHA, jumped to a 2 goal lead and held on for a 2-1 HUGE UPSET win. Then played a solid Roseville team in the Final, were down 1-0, but rallied for a 3-1 win. I sat in the stands with my 5 year old son (for the final). Of course his favorite student chant was the infamous “Hey, Hey, you suck”😉 Thirteen years later...he was fortunate enough to play at Xcel for Anoka. True that team had only two D1 players, both D, Matt Sorteberg played 4 years for Quinnepic & Tim Manthey played 2 years at Army. But several of the teams forwards (including Hendrick) played D3 hockey☝️

LetMeEatCake
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Re: Last 16 State Winners: Rank 'Em

Post by LetMeEatCake » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:34 am

karl(east) wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:25 pm

Otherwise, I'd refer you to my essay from a couple years back on the progression of hockey talent in the metro: https://apatientcycle.com/2015/03/18/a- ... ol-hockey/
A really good read! Thanks for sharing!
I can have my cake and eat it too.

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