Realignment theory

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blueblood
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Realignment theory

Post by blueblood » Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:24 pm

If Hermantown opts up here’s a scenario to consider:

Hermantown to 7AA
Elk River from 7AA to 8AA
Buffalo from 8AA to 6AA
Cretin from 6AA to 3AA
Jefferson from 3AA to 2AA
Prior Lake from 2AA to 1AA
Hastings from 1AA to 4AA
Totino to 5AA (opt up)
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Usthockey13
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Re: Realignment theory

Post by Usthockey13 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:47 pm

They aren’t opting up

Sparlimb
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Re: Realignment theory

Post by Sparlimb » Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:11 pm

Can't even get by Greenway...

Corn Cobb
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Re: Realignment theory

Post by Corn Cobb » Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:47 pm

Class B school.

StanleyCup55
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Re: Realignment theory

Post by StanleyCup55 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:44 pm

I wouldn’t be surprised if Hermantown opts down to Bantam AA next year. Class A is now too hard

East Side Pioneer Guy
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Re: Realignment theory

Post by East Side Pioneer Guy » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:08 pm

Well, Hermantown is still the 1A public school champion.

Oh, never mind....

Joe2015
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Re: Realignment theory

Post by Joe2015 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:33 am

They will use this year as an excuse not to move up

goldy313
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Re: Realignment theory

Post by goldy313 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:37 pm

If Northfield meets the AA threshold then Northfield and New Prague to 1AA, Lakeville North and South to 3AA.

Yes, it weakens 1AA substantially but makes sense geographically and avoids the problem of the Lakeville schools refusing to play any non conference games against section teams.

blueblood
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Re: Realignment theory

Post by blueblood » Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:59 am

313: that’s highly unlikely in that Section 3AA would have 11 teams and 2AA would have 7 teams under your scenario.
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StanleyCup55
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Re: Realignment theory

Post by StanleyCup55 » Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:09 am

You could move Jefferson over to 2AA or even Buffalo. Then shift Woodbury over to 3AA and put Centennial in 4AA.

ThatMNHockeyGuy62
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Re: Realignment theory

Post by ThatMNHockeyGuy62 » Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:44 am

This is supposed to be a small realignment, with a big one coming in two more years. It’s a chance to re-look at enrollment numbers for schools on the cusp like Northfield, Mahtomedi, and Waconia (like New Prague two years ago). Generally expect if any of these schools move up to see some 7 or 9 team sections for two more years. Then, in the next realignment I wouldn’t be shocked to see the above mentioned Lakevilles to 3AA, Jefferson and Waconia to 2AA, Cretin to some east side section, and possibly a northern 2AA team like Tonka to move up to 6AA to replace CDH.

Cougaralumni14
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Re: Realignment theory

Post by Cougaralumni14 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:12 pm

StanleyCup55 wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:09 am
You could move Jefferson over to 2AA or even Buffalo. Then shift Woodbury over to 3AA and put Centennial in 4AA.
I'd love to see Centennial in 4AA but so much of the conference is in 5AA so its probably not going to happen. Though they could schedule 3 non conference games against the 4AA blue-bloods Stillwater, White Bear, and Hill and still get 4 more against other non-conference teams.

hockey59
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Re: Realignment theory

Post by hockey59 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:20 pm

Cougaralumni14 wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:12 pm
StanleyCup55 wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:09 am
You could move Jefferson over to 2AA or even Buffalo. Then shift Woodbury over to 3AA and put Centennial in 4AA.
I'd love to see Centennial in 4AA but so much of the conference is in 5AA so its probably not going to happen. Though they could schedule 3 non conference games against the 4AA blue-bloods Stillwater, White Bear, and Hill and still get 4 more against other non-conference teams.
You’re welcome to join the SE Suburban conf, NW Sub has plenty of teams. 😉 In all seriousness, I’m fine with CT being in the NW conf, but for Sections they belong (and always belonged) in 4AA IMO ☝️

goldy313
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Re: Realignment theory

Post by goldy313 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:33 pm

blueblood wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:59 am
313: that’s highly unlikely in that Section 3AA would have 11 teams and 2AA would have 7 teams under your scenario.
You could easily move Jefferson into 2AA.

For the next big realignment I would like the MSHSL to take conferences into account. At least in AA try to keep conferences into no more than 2 sections.
So, for example in 1AA either take Hastings out and move in another South Suburban school or schools. Or, if Northfield is AA keep Hastings and add New Prague and St. Thomas while dropping the 3 South Suburban schools.
In theory this would make scheduling easier and seeding better.

elliott70
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Re: Realignment theory

Post by elliott70 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:00 pm

North AA

Teams are segregated by how far north and west they are from the metro (10 or 610)

Teams north and west (from farthest north) Using east of Hwy 169 to be east teams.
Roseau
Bemidji
Grand Rapids
Moorhead
Brainerd
St Cloud
Elk River * farthest north
St Michaels *** farthest nw
Rogers
Buffalo ** farthest west of metro-area teams

North and East
Duluth Marshall
Duluth East
Cloquet
Cambridge
St Francis
Forest Lake
Andover
Anoka
Coon Rapids
Champlin
Blaine

So section 8 would be
Roseau
Bemidji
Grand Rapids
Moorhead
Brainerd
St Cloud
St Michaels
Buffalo

Section 7 would be
Duluth Marshall
Duluth East
Cloquet
Cambridge
St Francis
Forest Lake
Andover
Elk River
Rogers

Hermantown - if and when
growing?
Monticello
Alexandria
Wilmar
Sartell
Hibbing
Hutchinson
Mankato
Marshall
Thief River Falls
East Grand Forks

blueblood
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Re: Realignment theory

Post by blueblood » Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:30 pm

If MNHS football can do away with conferences and move to their district scheduling process, why can't hockey?
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East Side Pioneer Guy
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Re: Realignment theory

Post by East Side Pioneer Guy » Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:49 pm

blueblood wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:30 pm
If MNHS football can do away with conferences and move to their district scheduling process, why can't hockey?
Football is a sport that is driven by numbers far more than any other sport. The odd thing about hockey is that there are a lot of schools that don't offer it. Although, I'm not sure how many conferences have say half the schools with and without hockey.

One of the reasons football was taken out of conferences is that that sport was the primary driver in the break up of conferences, going back to the late 80's. Some schools had a lot of trouble filling out their football schedules. By making a section the conference for football, it solved a lot of problems.

goldy313
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Re: Realignment theory

Post by goldy313 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:01 pm

The primary factor in football is the limited amount of games and that games are basically every Friday. Conferences with an odd number of teams means one team needs to find a non conference opponent every Friday. Districts all have an even number of teams, meaning no trouble finding games. In football when Cretin and Totino opt up 2 teams are sent down to keep 6A at 64 schools. Another problem was the difference in enrollment, the Hiawatha Valley Conference had teams ranging from 1A Goodhue up to 4A Kasson.

Hockey can be played any night but Sunday and with 25 games conferences with an odd number of teams don’t matter.

I’d like to see teams play every team in their section at least once though, unless by mutual agreement they choose not too.....there isn’t much point in Lakeville North playing Dodge County most years.

blueblood
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Re: Realignment theory

Post by blueblood » Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:08 am

ESPG:

You said it yourself, “By making the section a conference for football, it solved a lot of problems.” Wouldn’t that work for hockey too?

Teams could play at least once per year, or opt for the home & away each season, and still give themselves anywhere from 16 to 18 non conference matchups each season.
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East Side Pioneer Guy
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Re: Realignment theory

Post by East Side Pioneer Guy » Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:09 pm

Sure, i suppose it could work for hockey too. Part of my point was that taking football out of conferences solved problems for all sports, namely conference roulette. Taking hockey out of conferences only solves problems for hockey, so there just isn't as much impetus for it.

How much does it matter for general school culture to regularly be competing against the same schools in most sports? I recall in the late 80's I went to and Edina - Tonka hockey game, maybe a section game, and most of the Tonka kids had sweatshirts that read "Beat Edina". We got a kick out of that, and wondered what the deal was. Turned out, the "Beat Edina" sweatshirts were left over from the homecoming football game against Edina.

I'd just as soon Hill play an independent schedule in hockey. If Hill play the section, that would be 16 games, 2 each against several teams I don't want to play once. E gads, 8 games taken up by Mounds View, Roseville, NSP, Irondale? No thanks. And they don't want to play Hill twice either. As it is Hill doesn't play a home and home with many schools in the conference.

sparty
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Re: Realignment theory

Post by sparty » Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:42 am

Certain teams in poorer areas like Coon Rapids, Dodge Co,. St. Francis, N. St. Paul should be able to play Class A

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