2019 HP U17 or U16 Boys Rosters?

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MWS coach
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Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:31 am

Re: 2019 HP U17 or U16 Boys Rosters?

Post by MWS coach » Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:18 pm

elliott70 wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:07 pm
MWS coach wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:58 am
elliott70 wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:46 am
It is interesting that posters have many ideas regarding improvement and the amount of money that is netted from the process, BUT

your faces are never seen at a MN Hockey meeting.

You have been invited.

And will be again.

Those on the MH board and the others involved are open to suggestions - volunteering - and helping in any manner available.

I am short of telling you to shut up but do wish that you would be involved.
So what you are saying is unless someone goes to a MNH meeting, they shouldn't post opinions/thoughts for discussion on a blog?

Just because someone is not involved at the MNH level does not mean they are not involved, nor that they don't volunteer a lot of time. Just saying!
No, not criticizing or saying someone does not have the right to speak, but saying perhaps someone should gather data prior to speaking.
I am sure many on here if not all do a fair share of volunteering for hockey and perhaps other worthwhile causes..
I am saying that by the comments made it is obvious some do not know the exact process, the reasons for the process or the money that is generated and spent.
I am not speaking for myself as I do not serve on the Hockey OPs committee, but do listen to their reports=, their discussions and r=view the data supplied.
Also, I ma saying that if you have complaints you will be listened to and taken serious if you show up and let people know of your concern and if you want, become part of the process.
Sorry, but identifying that one team has 7 D and one has 5 is just obvious and shouldn't need someone to attend a board meeting to make a recommendation that to adjust the teams to the same number is a good idea.

Agreed, having more information/data available would be great, but unless I am missing something, the detail level of meeting minutes is minimal. Some show written report submitted (which of course were available at the meeting but not online). Beyond the form 990, financial data is not available. Yes, expenses, revenue and net profit are shown on the reports. I am not complaining about any of this, but just pointing out, from a financial perspective not sure how I am supposed to find out more data when it really isn't available. As an example, April 2018 report shows profit of $600K. I would make the assumption that profit from initial phase of HP would be included in the data. Beyond knowing I pay $100 for my player for tryout and estimating expenses, not sure what other conclusion I could make? It may surprise you, but I do read meeting minutes for MNH, District and Association.
I wasn't complaining on cost, nor what the profit is used for, just that if some additional expenses were incurred to make the process more efficient and more importantly not have players sitting on the bench for a long period of time, there seems to be room without having to increase cost. I am sure I don't know all the details of the exact process. Is there somewhere that the exact process is provided? I would enjoy any and all additional information.
Having done many evaluations, I know it would be very difficult to evaluate so many players during such a short sample. I know from personal experiences, I have had some misses over the years. One in particular that I recall and there were way to many players on the ice.
Just for clarification, while misses or surprises certainly happen (whatever you want to call them) I do think for the most part the right players are selected. Let's face it, beyond maybe a few players in each section, the difference between many of the remaining players is minimal. I can say that the progression/outcome for my son's has been accurate which includes them advancing and not being selected for the next level.

PuckNA
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Re: 2019 HP U17 or U16 Boys Rosters?

Post by PuckNA » Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:40 pm

MrBoDangles wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:34 pm
PuckNA wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:48 am
MrBoDangles wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:52 am


Why so surprised? I guess you can't comprehend your own writing...
"They have to take a couple A kids"
"North Branch guy is the coach"
"But not saying"

If you're not saying it... why say it? Idiotic!!!

Come watch a game...
Go back to bed... did you also not see this part... "Not saying kids aren't deserving" I have seen those kids since they were mites, seen plenty of games and kids of all ages and abilities. This is more of a knock on the process and how the teams get formed... don't confuse the process, this generates $$$ if kids quit going the money dries up. There are truly some great players at all levels.
Go back and read your original post... Dig.. Dig.. Dig.. but I'm not saying it's the case here...

And then in another post you say that you've seen them play since mites... Then you obviously remember North Branch always being at the top... or towards the top against the big 5AA programs when they played against their BEST...

So you tried to discredit... but knew the truth on their talent level!

So it's an obvious case of a jealous dig.. that couldn't be said subliminally.. because of idiocy..

=D> :lol:

I'm woke!!
Holy delusional... guess we crown NB as the second coming then... I guess I just missed it... a school has some success at the youth level and you climb on their bandwagon, good for you. Dude, they had 6 kids with double digit point and 4 with double digit goals... 3 of them graduate... guess I just don't have rose colored glasses on... hey guess what they have a couple kids that play well, they are a small town.. no jealousy... read the posts after mine... other people caught the drift... sorry you're butt hurt about what you think I meant

elliott70
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Re: 2019 HP U17 or U16 Boys Rosters?

Post by elliott70 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:00 pm

MFS
"Sorry, but identifying that one team has 7 D and one has 5 is just obvious and shouldn't need someone to attend a board meeting to make a recommendation that to adjust the teams to the same number is a good idea. "

FIRST, MY COMMENTS WERE NOT DIRECTED AT YOU SPECIFICALLY. (caps unintentional)

The point is sounding off here is fine, but to be helpful it needs to reach the ears of those making the decisions.
And I think I ma the only MH board member to read this board (to my knowledge)

One team having 7 and one team 5 is (not saying it for sure but based on other knowledge) is more matter of local district or section decisions not MN Hockey board or Hockey Op decision. More of a policy of decentralized management.

Yes the minutes are not complete but designed for those that attend.
Additional info is available upon request.

I am not saying it is a prefect system but most things have been considered and have been done a certain way as a result of time tested programs or reasons (such as not having all decisions made at the top).

BUT I need to add I do appreciate reading comments - especially those that suggest improvement.

MWS coach
Posts: 308
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Re: 2019 HP U17 or U16 Boys Rosters?

Post by MWS coach » Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:17 pm

elliott70 wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:00 pm
MFS
"Sorry, but identifying that one team has 7 D and one has 5 is just obvious and shouldn't need someone to attend a board meeting to make a recommendation that to adjust the teams to the same number is a good idea. "

FIRST, MY COMMENTS WERE NOT DIRECTED AT YOU SPECIFICALLY. (caps unintentional)

The point is sounding off here is fine, but to be helpful it needs to reach the ears of those making the decisions.
And I think I ma the only MH board member to read this board (to my knowledge)

One team having 7 and one team 5 is (not saying it for sure but based on other knowledge) is more matter of local district or section decisions not MN Hockey board or Hockey Op decision. More of a policy of decentralized management.

Yes the minutes are not complete but designed for those that attend.
Additional info is available upon request.

I am not saying it is a prefect system but most things have been considered and have been done a certain way as a result of time tested programs or reasons (such as not having all decisions made at the top).

BUT I need to add I do appreciate reading comments - especially those that suggest improvement.
Understood and agree. Thanks for all the time you spend and the commitment to making Minnesota the best place to play hockey in the country.

WestMetro
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Re: 2019 HP U17 or U16 Boys Rosters?

Post by WestMetro » Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:24 pm

Peace at last !

Was starting to resemble the Htown or 3a threads!

elliott70
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Location: Bemidji

Re: 2019 HP U17 or U16 Boys Rosters?

Post by elliott70 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:24 pm

WestMetro wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:24 pm
Peace at last !

Was starting to resemble the Htown or 3a threads!
:D

MrBoDangles
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Re: 2019 HP U17 or U16 Boys Rosters?

Post by MrBoDangles » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:52 pm

PuckNA wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:04 am
Remember how these are picked too... The NB coach is one of the coaches for 5AA team... Not saying kids aren't deserving, but always will be smaller schools represented, can't have the HP tryout money dry up if kids don't have hope of making it..
We can't all be Centennial.. Good luck in your games!

:wink: :idea:

Stang5280
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Re: 2019 HP U17 or U16 Boys Rosters?

Post by Stang5280 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:27 pm

I am just checking into this thread for the first time since posting what I thought was a rather innocuous comment about North Branch landing three kids on the HP teams, and find that it devolved into complaining about whether the NB players were the recipients of favoritism and questioning the selection process as a whole.

Channeling my inner Allen Iverson: We talkin’ ‘bout North Branch, people, North Branch! It isn’t like this was a traditional powerhouse like Edina, Eden Prairie, or East dominating the selection process with several players stacked at each level. It was little bitty North Branch, who just came off their first state tournament thanks in large part thanks to a great sophomore class, three of whom are on the HP teams. And if you have actually watched more NB games other than their pummeling at the hands of SCC, you would see that these kids are legit good. Yeah, I know I can be the resident Class A shill at times, but this just struck me as a comical turn of events.

Rant over, continue on, y’all.

6AAGuy
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Re: 2019 HP U17 or U16 Boys Rosters?

Post by 6AAGuy » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:13 am

Stang5280 wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:25 pm
Section 6 U17 roster... my goodness :shock:
Curious, Stang, on your "shock" re: Section 6 HP roster? Can you be specific?

bardown27
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Re: 2019 HP U17 or U16 Boys Rosters?

Post by bardown27 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:29 am

6AAGuy wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:13 am
Stang5280 wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:25 pm
Section 6 U17 roster... my goodness :shock:
Curious, Stang, on your "shock" re: Section 6 HP roster? Can you be specific?
I'm assuming he's referencing the 14 of 20 kids being private school kids

yesiplayedhockey
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Re: 2019 HP U17 or U16 Boys Rosters?

Post by yesiplayedhockey » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:03 am

Now Minnesota hockey is betting against the boys in green?

No Edina Forwards or D? Just the one Goalie. That has to be a first.

I have a feeling come winter, Edina will be better than most people expect

(oh and for the record...I know many of these kids from BSM and Blake still live in Edina ).

6AAGuy
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Re: 2019 HP U17 or U16 Boys Rosters?

Post by 6AAGuy » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:09 am

Agree the Hornets have a lot of good hockey players who've been buried on bench or JV and will gain some spotlight next year since so many have graduated/left. Sentiment/opinion of what's left may have swung too far to the negative.

GoBigorGoHome
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Re: 2019 HP U17 or U16 Boys Rosters?

Post by GoBigorGoHome » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:14 am

bardown27 wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:33 pm
Looking at Section 1, Lakeville South has 6 kids on 16s roster and 5 on the 17s roster. Of those 11 kids, 5 are D, 5 are F and a goalie. Pretty balanced.
It is interesting that LVN doesn't have a single representative on the 17s team. According to some, not a single LVN player tried out for 17s. It appears the coach may have chosen not to nominate any of his players.

MWS coach
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Re: 2019 HP U17 or U16 Boys Rosters?

Post by MWS coach » Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:33 am

GoBigorGoHome wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:14 am
bardown27 wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:33 pm
Looking at Section 1, Lakeville South has 6 kids on 16s roster and 5 on the 17s roster. Of those 11 kids, 5 are D, 5 are F and a goalie. Pretty balanced.
It is interesting that LVN doesn't have a single representative on the 17s team. According to some, not a single LVN player tried out for 17s. It appears the coach may have chosen not to nominate any of his players.
Confusing, there are 3 LVN players on 16's festival team, so you are saying coach nominated 16's but not 17's? I have no idea, which is why I am asking, just seems strange to me that a coach would nominate at one age group but not the other.

muckandgrinder65
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Re: 2019 HP U17 or U16 Boys Rosters?

Post by muckandgrinder65 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:46 am

IMO there are a number of high end players throughout the state that chose not to participate even though they were nominated, or the coach doesn’t nominate his top players or encourages against HP.
Rumor is Randolph is not a HP proponent, for example.
I think Casey Mittelstadt is a good example of someone who chose not to participate at 16s, ??(but probably didn’t need to at the 17s)
I’m not a fan of HP, as it seems to be an ambiguous process that doesn’t provide additional visibility beyond HS or perhaps a Junior prospect camp, Elite League, whatever.
A twitter post on MN Hockey said ‘they will find you no matter where you play’ if you are good.
I also think there is precedence to select returning HP participants. So if a kid is nominated the first time as a 16 or 17 the odds are a little tougher to be selected if 15 of the 45 kids are returning HP kids.

GoBigorGoHome
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Re: 2019 HP U17 or U16 Boys Rosters?

Post by GoBigorGoHome » Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:51 am

MWS coach wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:33 am
GoBigorGoHome wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:14 am
bardown27 wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:33 pm
Looking at Section 1, Lakeville South has 6 kids on 16s roster and 5 on the 17s roster. Of those 11 kids, 5 are D, 5 are F and a goalie. Pretty balanced.
It is interesting that LVN doesn't have a single representative on the 17s team. According to some, not a single LVN player tried out for 17s. It appears the coach may have chosen not to nominate any of his players.
Confusing, there are 3 LVN players on 16's festival team, so you are saying coach nominated 16's but not 17's? I have no idea, which is why I am asking, just seems strange to me that a coach would nominate at one age group but not the other.
I don't know either. It is possible that any 17s that were nominated chose not to try out....

bardown27
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Re: 2019 HP U17 or U16 Boys Rosters?

Post by bardown27 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:25 am

GoBigorGoHome wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:51 am
MWS coach wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:33 am
GoBigorGoHome wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:14 am


It is interesting that LVN doesn't have a single representative on the 17s team. According to some, not a single LVN player tried out for 17s. It appears the coach may have chosen not to nominate any of his players.
Confusing, there are 3 LVN players on 16's festival team, so you are saying coach nominated 16's but not 17's? I have no idea, which is why I am asking, just seems strange to me that a coach would nominate at one age group but not the other.
I don't know either. It is possible that any 17s that were nominated chose not to try out....
Looking at their Elite Prospects page, they have 5 2002 birth years listed, with two more that are 02's based on past HP stuff.

Looking at their academic calendar, it looks as if North is on Spring Break this week, may have had some influence on it.

yesiplayedhockey
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Re: 2019 HP U17 or U16 Boys Rosters?

Post by yesiplayedhockey » Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:58 am

It's silly silly silly that parents change, alter and put off spring break plans just for another weekend (or two) of hockey

Shame on Minnesota hockey for not starting this process the 2nd week of April. But, more importantly, shame on the parents who yet again think this hockey stuff is more important than family time. Stick tap to all the Lakeville North families if they truly passed on this HP stuff for spring break.

Yes I get it, you actually think going to NY is a big deal. But seriously people, it's really not that big of deal. If your kid is destined to get that college scholarship, a week of hockey smack dab in the middle of summer in Buffalo won't be a deal breaker either way.

Stang5280
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Re: 2019 HP U17 or U16 Boys Rosters?

Post by Stang5280 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:03 pm

bardown27 wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:29 am
6AAGuy wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:13 am
Stang5280 wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:25 pm
Section 6 U17 roster... my goodness :shock:
Curious, Stang, on your "shock" re: Section 6 HP roster? Can you be specific?
I'm assuming he's referencing the 14 of 20 kids being private school kids
Yes, partially that, which is weird to see, and partially because I think there are a lot of good players on that roster. Maybe it is a name recognition thing, but that roster stood out to me the most in my first pass through the lists (though I could certainly turn out to be wrong on the talent aspect).

BeauKnowsHockey
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Re: 2019 HP U17 or U16 Boys Rosters?

Post by BeauKnowsHockey » Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:02 pm

In case you missed it, I got everyone added for this year’s rosters of 16s and 17s on elite prospects https://twitter.com/minnhockeyhp/status ... 13408?s=21 I plan to add previous seasons when I can!
Minnesota based volunteer for EliteProspects.com

muckandgrinder65
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Re: 2019 HP U17 or U16 Boys Rosters?

Post by muckandgrinder65 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:11 pm

YIPL:
Nailed it.

muckandgrinder65
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Re: 2019 HP U17 or U16 Boys Rosters?

Post by muckandgrinder65 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:12 pm

YIPH

BeauKnowsHockey
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Re: 2019 HP U17 or U16 Boys Rosters?

Post by BeauKnowsHockey » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:42 pm

bardown27 wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:25 am
Looking at their Elite Prospects page, they have 5 2002 birth years listed, with two more that are 02's based on past HP stuff.

Looking at their academic calendar, it looks as if North is on Spring Break this week, may have had some influence on it.
I hate to break it to you guys, but our birthdates aren’t 100% correct on Eliteprospects. I would say they are correct 75% of the time if I only have a birthyear listed. And 99% of the time if I have a full birthdate listed. My method is an imperfect system. I am working on getting better at birthdates.

Right now. If they haven’t played a level of hockey that lists their full birthdate. I have to use their grade to estimate their age. Typically that estimation is their grad year - 18 (graduate in 2019? 2019-18=2001! You get a 2001 birthyear unless otherwise specified!). I’m sure you guys can immediately notice the flaw in that system. I have asked my boss if we can somehow add a category to the player facts for “grade” but high school hockey is such a small part of our database that it got put on the back back burner of to do lists. :(

I’m open to other suggestions. Now that I have done some work with adding the spring HP programs to the database those kids birthdates are very cut and dry.

Sorry if I burst anyone’s Bubble. I am only human as well, and I don’t have access to a magical birth year database. If one exists that someone would let me use I would take it!
Minnesota based volunteer for EliteProspects.com

O-townClown
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Re: 2019 HP U17 or U16 Boys Rosters?

Post by O-townClown » Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:46 pm

BeauKnowsHockey wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:42 pm
I’m open to other suggestions. Now that I have done some work with adding the spring HP programs to the database those kids birthdates are very cut and dry.

Sorry if I burst anyone’s Bubble. I am only human as well, and I don’t have access to a magical birth year database. If one exists that someone would let me use I would take it!
My thought would be to leave DOB blank rather than guess and take a 1/3rd chance you are wrong by estimating from grade.
Be kind. Rewind.

612hockeytown
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Re: 2019 HP U17 or U16 Boys Rosters?

Post by 612hockeytown » Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:48 am

yesiplayedhockey wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:58 am
It's silly silly silly that parents change, alter and put off spring break plans just for another weekend (or two) of hockey

Shame on Minnesota hockey for not starting this process the 2nd week of April. But, more importantly, shame on the parents who yet again think this hockey stuff is more important than family time. Stick tap to all the Lakeville North families if they truly passed on this HP stuff for spring break.

Yes I get it, you actually think going to NY is a big deal. But seriously people, it's really not that big of deal. If your kid is destined to get that college scholarship, a week of hockey smack dab in the middle of summer in Buffalo won't be a deal breaker either way.
You’re not wrong at all!

HP funds MN hockey as a fundraiser and also funds the boys (and girls) National camps and also NTDP. Boys that make the National Camp pay around $150 for a weeks worth of ice, games, housing, and a Jersey (for 15/16/17s). I know as a nephew was involved in making it to “Nattys” a couple years for 16/17s. If you don’t make it, but make it to 54s etc you will have spent around $450-500 for a couple weekends of hockey plus tryout fees.

Essentially making New York is the only way parents will “break even” and feel like they are not getting ripped off.

Ted Brill/Great 8 - the HP 18s and seniors - is the biggest waste of money according to every coach I’ve spoken to over the years in regards to being evaluated-scouted- etc.

100% agree it’s held at a poor time. Family’s are on spring break etc. Although if you are putting off plans for the Ted Brill eeessh. In fairness - many seniors see it as a last chance to be seen and in fairness they will get some D3 and NA3 looks.

The HP process should be much cheaper. Lower the fee and ditch the bs gate fee that only parents and grandparents pay.

\rant

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