State of Hockey's Team

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O-townClown
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Re: State of Hockey's Team

Post by O-townClown » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:24 am

xy wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:45 am
They went back to the Frozen Four in 2005, 2012, and 2014, reaching the final in that last year. He won a conference regular season championship every year from 2012 through 2017 (and yes, the last four were in the weaker Big Ten, but the first two of those were in the WCHA).
This is when I realized Gopher hockey no longer has fans, just people that criticize the program. Short of winning a National Championship, each season is a disappointment.
Be kind. Rewind.

MrBoDangles
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Re: State of Hockey's Team

Post by MrBoDangles » Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:04 pm

O-townClown wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:24 am
xy wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:45 am
They went back to the Frozen Four in 2005, 2012, and 2014, reaching the final in that last year. He won a conference regular season championship every year from 2012 through 2017 (and yes, the last four were in the weaker Big Ten, but the first two of those were in the WCHA).
This is when I realized Gopher hockey no longer has fans, just people that criticize the program. Short of winning a National Championship, each season is a disappointment.
You should know that Edina throws away 2nd place trophies... :lol:
Motzko should change the vibe and culture.. :wink:

O-townClown
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Re: State of Hockey's Team

Post by O-townClown » Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:29 pm

MrBoDangles wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:04 pm
Motzko should change the vibe and culture.. :wink:
I'm supportive of the Gophers and that won't change. I don't believe Bob Motzko or anyone else has the ability to lower the expectations to a realistic level. BC, BU, Wisconsin, Michigan, North Dakota...if it were easy for these programs to rule college hockey they wouldn't all miss the 16-team NCAA tournament.
Be kind. Rewind.

Slap Shot
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Re: State of Hockey's Team

Post by Slap Shot » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:53 am

goldy313 wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:21 am
He also lost to Holy Cross, and turned a premier college hockey program that drew 10,000 people to games at Mariucci to a team who draws 500 to a Big10 tournament game.

Woog recruits kids and gets let go. They don’t leave and tDon gets all the credit. Crazy.

Love Lucia all you want but he did nothing after the Woog kids left. And he left the program in the worst shape it has been in decades.
The 2003 NC team had 1 Woog recruit and he barely played. The 2004 team was 1 win from the FF after running into a very hot UMD. At one point they made 8 straight NCAAs and 3 additional FFs after 2003. Yes there were some stinker NCAA losses but college hockey has changed and high seeds have been losing with greater regularity the past several years.

Without question his last 3-4 years were under-whelming but he did as much/more than any previous coach not named Brooks, and I doubt anyone will ever attain what Herbie did at the U.

WestMetro
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Re: State of Hockey's Team

Post by WestMetro » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:09 am

Speaking of changing culture , and somebody mentioned Edina in this thread also , Lucia recruited too many Edina kids all within 2-3 years . I think there were 7 +- on roster last year .
While Edina is a premier program with huge amounts of talent, it’s simply not good for the culture of the gophers to have so many kids from the same high school at the same time- whether that’s Edina, Deast , Hill or anyone else

yesiplayedhockey
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Re: State of Hockey's Team

Post by yesiplayedhockey » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:54 am

We have the luxury of sitting back and breaking down the mistakes all these coaches made. But let's be honest. If you are a Division one coach in Minnesota the path of least resistance has always been the same 8-10 towns like Roseau, Duluth, Tonka and of course Edina. Then you look for kids who's parents played hockey at a high level or maybe a older brother. Then you ask a couple alumni who they know.. Just doing that you have one heck of a start to a team..... and you haven't even left your desk yet.

The knock on the U of Minnesota has always been they recruit the soft country club kids...fresh out of High school, not enough northern Minnesota boys...No Canadians, etc etc.. But then if you ask people from outside Minnesota what is wrong with a lot of our Minnesota kids and they will tell you that all of our kids play a tad soft in their eyes. No grit, no fire in the belly. I've heard the same digs over and over and over.

Do I agree with them. Not necessarily. But I will say this. When coaches continue to grab 15 year old kids as fast as they can, the predictability just isn't there as it is if you are taking say a 20 year old. If I'm coaching the U...Or UMD or anywhere else for that matter. I'm sitting on my hands and not letting parents dictate to me when I need to commit someone. I know that if I want the kid 4,5,6 years from now, I still stand a very good chance of getting them. The smaller schools probably don't have the luxury. But I truly think the bigger schools do.

Slap Shot
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Re: State of Hockey's Team

Post by Slap Shot » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:21 am

I don't think the Gophers ignore recruiting northern players (at least until the end of Lucia's tenure) so much as I think they've had plenty of competition with UND, UMD and SCSU among others. And even metro kids have so many options these days that despite the "built in" advantages the Gophers supposedly have, if it's not managed closely and with vigor and passion it's not unthinkable to see some of the results they've had.

Team chemistry, injuries, competition, unforeseen stunted development/growth, bad luck, etc. There's been a lot of parity in college hockey the past 10+ years and it's pretty myopic to assume the Gophers should dominate (your definition of dominate may vary) year after year in the current culture. No they shouldn't miss the NCAAs as often as they did the last few years, but to assume a FF should always be the result is unrealistic.

Hell even Woog/Buetow made 8 FFs between them out of 20 years yet earned 0 titles. I attended my first game at Williams arena in 1973. 45 years+ and I've seen just about everything you could - the good, bad and ugly. While it was time for Lucia to go nothing is guaranteed with Motzko and won't be with the guy that follows him.

WestMetro
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Re: State of Hockey's Team

Post by WestMetro » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:46 pm

Mikey Anderson and Tufte gone early , will Peruni be next?

hockey59
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Re: State of Hockey's Team

Post by hockey59 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:45 pm

WestMetro wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:46 pm
Mikey Anderson and Tufte gone early , will Peruni be next?
I think Perunovich & Samberg will return, then sign after next season. The question is whether Hunter Shepard signs a max free agent deal, which you’d expect he will be offered by one of the 31 teams. D Nick Wolff indicated today he’s returning for next season (and likely will be Captain) ☝️

O-townClown
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Re: State of Hockey's Team

Post by O-townClown » Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:53 pm

WestMetro wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:09 am
While Edina is a premier program with huge amounts of talent, it’s simply not good for the culture of the gophers to have so many kids from the same high school at the same time- whether that’s Edina, Deast , Hill or anyone else
An interesting take. Dylan Malmquist, Deekay, Casey Dornbach, Henry Bowlby, Ben Copeland, and others are doing well at various colleges. You are saying it would be bad for the "culture of the Gophers" to have these players?

The argument for the NTDP is getting kids on board with the same program is a good thing for continuity.

I think 7 kids from the same middle school are about to be drafted. I'd think any college would love to have them all!
Be kind. Rewind.

goldy313
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Re: State of Hockey's Team

Post by goldy313 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:04 am

But if you lose like the Poehlings.....

WestMetro
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Re: State of Hockey's Team

Post by WestMetro » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:59 pm

OTC, Im just saying, how much is too much from one high school during a single gopher season ? 5? 7 ? 10? 15?

Wondering if some of the Gopher historians might remember the previous record number on a single year's gophers roster from a single HS program? Lets cut it off at 1975. Were there ever 7 Rapids kids on a Gopher roster at the same time?

MrBoDangles
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Re: State of Hockey's Team

Post by MrBoDangles » Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:16 pm

OTC, I'm just saying, Edina doesn't like anything but firsts and many Edina fans will start showing up with success.... You have to remember all the stories about 2nd place trophies left in the locker rooms...??.. :wink: :lol:

Heck... The whole city will probably come out with the Edina numbers on the roster.

Mite-dad
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Re: State of Hockey's Team

Post by Mite-dad » Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:23 pm

Would you rather play for SCSU, UMD, UND and play way more close to home, or play for the gophers and be a long ways away a lot? I still think that might have some influence on some kids and their parents.

CakeScout17
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Re: State of Hockey's Team

Post by CakeScout17 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:33 pm

I think Westy's overall take is more a tongue-in-cheek comment re: the collective perception of 'lazy recruiting' in Don's later years w/ the Gophs. Having 7 rostered Edina players and 3-4 more in the pipeline coming over next 2-3 years does make one wonder. Not only Edina, but the Lake Conference in general w/ Jensen, Colin Schmidt, etc. Good players all, from strong teams that either are in state title hunt and/or have recently won state titles. It appears, on paper, to be a bit parochial. Motzko has recognized this immediately ("We need to get bigger, stronger and older" (Star Tribune, May 2018) as Schmidt and others were directed to 'pursue other opportunities' while still others are being told, "we are still in this but lets see how the next year or two goes first"...e.g., KEEP WORKING HARD. A few too many recruits from same pool, committing 'too early' makes for a collective 'owe me' attitude that I feel Motzko is trying to remove from the U and incoming players and convert to a 'show me' attitude - some players rise above the early commit syndrome and work hard (SW) while others step off the gas and roll through the motions (take your pick).

Hey - if you get the Sammys, Caseys and Jacks, that's great! Bring them on. But for every 2 of those you'd better be recruiting nationally, scouring USHL and NAHL for the 2nd & 3rd year guys who are STILL HUNGRY and WORKING LIKE DOGS to get to the next level. Then we have 3-4 kids grouped together. Ok, cool good start. Now? Now get me 1-2, 3 guys from Red Deer, Penticton, MooseJaw who grew up on working on farms or in the logging industry. Motzko leans toward this approach is what Im hearing and seeing. The closer you get to the worker/grinder player and sprinkle in the hands/scorer player the better...when the recruits are all from the same pond w/ similar skills makes for a redundant, one-dimensional team. Mix it up, balance best of both worlds now you have the recipe! 2 years out? This is what Gophs will be...hang in there folks, it will get better!
Heck, I love cake, but all day, everyday is a problem without some fruits and veggies mixed in.

Stang5280
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Re: State of Hockey's Team

Post by Stang5280 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:26 pm

WestMetro wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:59 pm
OTC, Im just saying, how much is too much from one high school during a single gopher season ? 5? 7 ? 10? 15?

Wondering if some of the Gopher historians might remember the previous record number on a single year's gophers roster from a single HS program? Lets cut it off at 1975. Were there ever 7 Rapids kids on a Gopher roster at the same time?
Here you go... I was really procrastinating today, so I looked through the rosters of every Gophers team since 1976-77, which is the first full season listed on the school’s website. As best I could determine, here is every season with more than three players from the same high school. Aside from the years of the Jefferson dynasty, and the recent influx from Shattuck, none approach the seven Edina players on this year’s roster.

1980-81
Roseau 4
1982-83
Rapids 4
1983-84
Rapids 4
1987-88
Edina 4
1993-94
Jefferson 4
1994-95
Jefferson 5
1995-96
Jefferson 5
Edina 4
1996-97
Jefferson 6
1999-2000
Duluth East 4
2016-17
Shattuck 5
2017-18
Edina 5
Shattuck 6
2018-19
Edina 7
Shattuck 5

WestMetro
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Re: State of Hockey's Team

Post by WestMetro » Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:40 pm

Thanks for research Stang!

CakeScout , well stated!

Stang5280
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Re: State of Hockey's Team

Post by Stang5280 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:51 pm

Mite-dad wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:23 pm
Would you rather play for SCSU, UMD, UND and play way more close to home, or play for the gophers and be a long ways away a lot? I still think that might have some influence on some kids and their parents.
The NCHC travel is every bit as bad as the Big Ten. Other than the three semi-clustered teams you listed, you have the two Colorado teams, Omaha, Miami (about an hour north of Cincy), and Western Michigan, none of which are easy trips. I think the fact that the NCHC has been so dominant during its existence probably plays a bigger factor than having games close to home.

gopherpuck516
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Re: State of Hockey's Team

Post by gopherpuck516 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:57 pm

Edina will always have a handful of D1 caliber players on every team. With the sheer numbers in their youth program and former professional and D1 players who choose to live there it’s always likely they’ll have very talented and well coached players. But like an earlier poster said, a well rounded college team puts together kids from all backgrounds who have both the talent and desire to excel as a team at the college level. The Bulldogs have shown that the last 3 years. They have a bunch of MN kids from up north and the metro, and mix in some gems from *ahem Canada with a team first attitude and they get the job done. Sandelin is a very good coach with a proven system, he deserves all the credit he’s received. It took him 15+ years to get his program to the pinnacle. What he’s done is even more impressive given college hockey has more parity than ever before. Motzko is a great coach with a great system as well, and he’s putting together a strong recruiting stream from diverse hockey backgrounds, which will benefit the Gophers hockey program in the years to come.

The NCHA vs Big 10 debate is valid now, but it’s my opinion that the Big 10 will surpass the NCHA as premier college hockey conference over the next decade.

O-townClown
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Re: State of Hockey's Team

Post by O-townClown » Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:39 am

CakeScout17 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:33 pm
I think Westy's overall take is more a tongue-in-cheek comment re: the collective perception of 'lazy recruiting' in Don's later years w/ the Gophs.
Lazy is the term I used too. A Gopher assistant had a son playing District 6 hockey and several standout Bantams were given offers young. That filled the pipeline and most of the focus was on the next batch of 14-15 year olds. Seemed to follow that pattern for a few years.

Funny thing is when Anders Lee wasn't recruited by the Gophers it was said (a lot, actually) that Minnesota made a huge mistake by not taking a proven scorer in their backyard. A couple years later too many Edina guys? If they won more people would quiet down.

I don't really see the Edina guys as their problem. Walker was great. If they had more high-level D they wouldn't have been playing 4 Edina guys most nights. In other words, the Edina guys (that it has been implied weren't good enough) were beating out the non-Edina guys. What does that say about them?
Be kind. Rewind.

yesiplayedhockey
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Re: State of Hockey's Team

Post by yesiplayedhockey » Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:16 am

Couple things (and let me preface by saying I am a gopher fan)

I don't think the Big Ten will necessarily prove to be the better of the two conferences. It's a great topic to debate but I think each conference will have it's good years and their bad years.

As far as the gophers. Every time there is a new coach, he/we all proclaim "this time it's different....." and for a short time it is. But culture usually creeps it way back into the program and old habits began to form again.

If I was a betting man, I'd say

1. The gophers will always go after the youngest "elite" kids. Even with the rule changes, look for them to continue to roll the dice on these kids
2. They will continue to lean on the Alumni to help "pick the roster". It's a tight fraternity over there and don't think for a minute it's not
3. A bulk of their roster will always come from the west side of town
4. They will continue to struggle to keep kids there for their junior and senior years

No one can argue that over the past few years, other college hockey teams have benefited from these gophers recruiting philosophies.. Using a draft analogy... in the early early days, the gophers always seem to end up with 4,5,6 of the top 10 kids in the state from any given class.... Now they are ending up with 1 or 2 ....The rest are choosing to go elsewhere...

I do believe Motzko will make it to the final four in the next 3-5 years. I also think some of the kids verbally committed under Lucia control will not be playing for Bob. Some of these decisions will work out and some will backfire. That's what you get when you take a high profile job like this

The bottom line is the talent pool for D-1 hockey is expanding worldwide. College hockey is going to continue to grow. Some people will say the product is getting better while others will say it's getting watered down. One thing I am going to keep my eye on is this...IF the UMD coach leaves for the NHL. UMD's future recruiting class looks very good. Will Motzko have a chance at getting a couple of these kids to flip? Stay tune ...your guess is as good as mine

Stang5280
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Re: State of Hockey's Team

Post by Stang5280 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:31 pm

gopherpuck516 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:57 pm
The Bulldogs have shown that the last 3 years. They have a bunch of MN kids from up north and the metro, and mix in some gems from *ahem Canada with a team first attitude and they get the job done. Sandelin is a very good coach with a proven system, he deserves all the credit he’s received. It took him 15+ years to get his program to the pinnacle. What he’s done is even more impressive given college hockey has more parity than ever before.
Interestingly, one of the major factors that led to UMD’s decline during the 1990s was their over-reliance on players from the Western Canadian ranks. I have a few friends who are UMD alumni from that era (one played for Sertich), and apparently Sertich never really recovered from the Bowling Green and RPI losses in 1984 and 1985, and his recruiting slipped dramatically. He basically stopped trying to compete for high-end Minnesota kids and was content to pick up some northern MN kids (who basically fell into his lap) and load up on Canadians. Many of the Canadian players had little buy-in to the program and were content just to keep playing hockey for a few more years. Apparently that was one of Sandelin's top priorities when he took over: to re-establish a strong recruiting foothold in Minnesota, and be more selective about the Canadians they were bringing in. Obviously he has been successful in implementing better cultural and recruiting dynamics.

GoBigorGoHome
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Re: State of Hockey's Team

Post by GoBigorGoHome » Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:17 pm

goldy313 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:04 am
But if you lose like the Poehlings.....
Speaking of...what's the story there? With dad having deep pockets and a willingness to write big donation checks, how did they not end up at the U, like some of the other deep pocketed names we've seen on the U's roster over the years?

gopherpuck516
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Re: State of Hockey's Team

Post by gopherpuck516 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:52 pm

GoBigorGoHome wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:17 pm
goldy313 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:04 am
But if you lose like the Poehlings.....
Speaking of...what's the story there? With dad having deep pockets and a willingness to write big donation checks, how did they not end up at the U, like some of the other deep pocketed names we've seen on the U's roster over the years?
Pure speculation, but maybe the U didn’t want all 3 brothers and SCSU was happy to oblige. Coincidentally, the 3 Poehling’s are very similar to the Reilly brothers the Gophers had a few years prior - older twin brothers and a younger brother who was the best player of the 3.

hockey59
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Re: State of Hockey's Team

Post by hockey59 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:14 pm

gopherpuck516 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:57 pm
Edina will always have a handful of D1 caliber players on every team. With the sheer numbers in their youth program and former professional and D1 players who choose to live there it’s always likely they’ll have very talented and well coached players. But like an earlier poster said, a well rounded college team puts together kids from all backgrounds who have both the talent and desire to excel as a team at the college level. The Bulldogs have shown that the last 3 years. They have a bunch of MN kids from up north and the metro, and mix in some gems from *ahem Canada with a team first attitude and they get the job done. Sandelin is a very good coach with a proven system, he deserves all the credit he’s received. It took him 15+ years to get his program to the pinnacle. What he’s done is even more impressive given college hockey has more parity than ever before. Motzko is a great coach with a great system as well, and he’s putting together a strong recruiting stream from diverse hockey backgrounds, which will benefit the Gophers hockey program in the years to come.

The NCHA vs Big 10 debate is valid now, but it’s my opinion that the Big 10 will surpass the NCHA as premier college hockey conference over the next decade.
I just don’t see any evidence (at least currently) that the BIG will surpass the NCHC any time over the next decade. They may pull even, but surpass, I just don’t see it. What NCHC teams have in common is that for at least 6-8 (and especially the top 4) Hockey is their #1 sport. As for some BIG schools (Gopher & Bucky excluded) it’s sport number 4-5-6😉 One of the reasons UMD is so good is how truely tight knit & close their players are. All 20-25 buy into the style they play, especially during the playoffs. Nobody puts themselves ahead of the TEAM, whether you’re a 1st Round NHL draft pick or a 3 year NAHL player (before arriving on campus). They don’t cheat offensively, everyone plays a 200’ game & their upperclassmen & leaders find a way come up big when it counts 👍

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