Transfers for 2019-20 season

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ThatMNHockeyGuy62
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Re: Transfers for 2019-20 season

Post by ThatMNHockeyGuy62 » Thu May 30, 2019 9:15 pm

minnscout wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 7:01 pm
Goalies in general commit at older age typically while playing Junior, it has nothing to do with MN HS Hockey.
⬆️⬆️ This 👏

A better metric to compare would be if MN HS goalies move on to Tier 1 or Tier 2 juniors at a higher or lower rate than full season U16 or U18 AAA goalies. My guess is it would be pretty darn similar.

O-townClown
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Re: Transfers for 2019-20 season

Post by O-townClown » Thu May 30, 2019 9:55 pm

North Dakota rules seem pretty restrictive if a kid whose family never moved isn't allowed back to play a Varsity sport after a season of Midget hockey while living with a host family.
Be kind. Rewind.

612hockeytown
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Re: Transfers for 2019-20 season

Post by 612hockeytown » Fri May 31, 2019 1:05 am

Duluthguy wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 8:38 am
InThePipes wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 6:11 am
612hockeytown wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 11:34 pm


It’s been brought up a lot in recent topics - but name a 2000 birth year goalie and up (01/02/03) that stayed in high school and has committed to play college hockey? Some will yes- eventually, but many are now starting their first and second years of juniors (and only have 1-2 years of junior eligibility left). It’s tough. Scouts don’t take goalies serious in MNHS hockey. Stejskal (junior) and Haider (sophomore) are the only one I can think (recently in the last 5 years) of that committed while playing high school (before both left juniors). Imo both 100% made the right price. Jared Moe left after junior year, had a stellar year at Waterloo and turn committed to the U.

I’m sure I missed some? Even if so it’s not many.
Hedquist, Haider, Ullan, Bischel, Enright, Evenson, Moe, Robbel, Stauber, Stejkal are the 10 D1 committed goalies from 99 birth years forward and of that list one played their Sr year in high school.
Also Gabe Holum was on this list at one time, and could still be on it if he wanted to be. He is a 2000 and was a UND commit. But the kid is brilliant academically, wanted to go straight to college instead of play juniors, so he de-committed and is playing at D3 Concordia-Moorhead. In his Concordia hockey bio, he lists his post-college plans as "mathematician or Physicist" and his dream job is astronaut:

https://concordiamn.prestosports.com/sp ... s?view=bio
While Holum is a very smart kid (was valedictorian) - there was never an offer at NoDak. As our family is close to an assistant who was let go very recently (you can figure that one out ;) and I’m sure doesn’t peruse these pages- Holum never had an offer. Could he have walked on? That is unknown as he didn’t try.

Their 5 year goalie recruiting (scholarship goalies) trail consisted of Thome, Scheel, Karki (was decommited by Berry), Haider (no commitment was made, but they danced for 6 months), Kaleb Johnson (walk on, only listed because he’s a current NAHL player and former Grand Forks Central player), Cameron Rowe (01NTDP - who decommitted from Nebraska- Omaha and commutes to NoDak a day after Johnson).

Holum was an often injured “potential” D1 level goalie that could have landed in a league like the WCHA if he played a year or two of juniors. You are 100% correct that academics were more important to him and he is now playing at Concordia. Sadly he was injured to start the year this year as well.

612hockeytown
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Re: Transfers for 2019-20 season

Post by 612hockeytown » Fri May 31, 2019 1:21 am

InThePipes wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 9:38 am
612hockeytown wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 11:34 pm
It’s been brought up a lot in recent topics - but name a 2000 birth year goalie and up (01/02/03) that stayed in high school and has committed to play college hockey? Some will yes- eventually, but many are now starting their first and second years of juniors (and only have 1-2 years of junior eligibility left). It’s tough. Scouts don’t take goalies serious in MNHS hockey. Stejskal (junior) and Haider (sophomore) are the only one I can think (recently in the last 5 years) of that committed while playing high school (before both left juniors). Imo both 100% made the right price. Jared Moe left after junior year, had a stellar year at Waterloo and turn committed to the U.

I’m sure I missed some? Even if so it’s not many.
While I completely agree with you, why is this in your opinion (bold and underlined above)?
[/quote]


For the same reasons many have listed, but I’ll reiterate a few. Don’t get me wrong, I love HS hockey.

Reasons:

-Small game window. 25-31 (if you go to the Tourney Chip).

-Weak schedules. Let’s pick on Holy Family just because ;)
You get these goalies to transfer there for “exposure,” yet for every good team they play, they play a very weak one. 10 of their 25 games were cupcakes. That can be said for many! My boys at Blaine gets to play Coon Rapids, Spring Lake Park, Osseo, Coon Rapids, Armstrong (plus a weaker centennial and elk river squad) etc etc

- Goalies aren’t really able to do before and afters in juniors. Coaches can’t afford to give them a spot only to lose them one month into the season. I don’t know of a current coach that’s let’s them? McKay from Edina did it two years ago and didn’t play a single game for the Magicians.

- Scouts like to be able to scout more than one position player at a time and with goalies - there is rarely a good goalie matchup that triggers a need to see both. This is on the bottom of the reaching list - but it’s a thing. You go to NAHL or T1 game with say Belle Tire vs Chi Mission - you’re getting a good goalie matchup every time.

- Pressure situations. Simply put - no games matter until sections. You can go 0-25 and make the Tourney. Unlikely - but it has a bearing on consistency over a long season.

- NAHL / USHL play 60-76 games depending on playoff implications. Tier 1 can hit 60ish. It’s a huge difference.

30-40 games (assuming you’re playing 50-75% of games ) at that level is way better of a gauge of talent.

TL;DR - easier to gauge a goalies long term growth in juniors and Tier 1 vs HS hockey.

InThePipes
Posts: 331
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Re: Transfers for 2019-20 season

Post by InThePipes » Fri May 31, 2019 8:13 am

ThatMNHockeyGuy62 wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 9:15 pm
minnscout wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 7:01 pm
Goalies in general commit at older age typically while playing Junior, it has nothing to do with MN HS Hockey.
⬆️⬆️ This 👏

A better metric to compare would be if MN HS goalies move on to Tier 1 or Tier 2 juniors at a higher or lower rate than full season U16 or U18 AAA goalies. My guess is it would be pretty darn similar.
Agree, just thinking about recent Brimsek finalists as a starting point for goalies that played through MNHS here are a few names:

Alander - no junior that I'm aware of
Althaus - bounced around jrs, recently committed D3
Begley - GB of USHL and most recently NCDC
McEwen - Spent a season in Canada, nothing that I'm aware of recently
Garrity - NAHL last year, split time
Kelly - NAHL last year, played about 20%
Boynton - tendered by NAHL
Mueller - TBD
Glockner - TBD

blueblood
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Re: Transfers for 2019-20 season

Post by blueblood » Fri May 31, 2019 8:15 am

No games matter until sections?

Ask Roseasu vs. Warroad, Tonka vs. Edina, Ep vs. Edina; etc. if those regular season games don't matter [-X
Play Like a Champion Today

SCBlueLiner
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Re: Transfers for 2019-20 season

Post by SCBlueLiner » Fri May 31, 2019 8:30 am

BleedGreen5 wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 10:47 am
Hockeylogger wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 11:53 pm
TTpuckster wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 10:22 pm


Pure Hogwash!!!!

If this is pure hogwash why is Jeff Panzer's house for sale in Grand Fork's? I've heard it's a done deal that his kid is playing in EGF next year. A lot of people in EGF are going to have to quit throwing stones now that they live in a glass house.
Both the goalie this coming year and Lund left GF to go play AAA in South Dakota and per ND rules couldn't return to High School hockey. Basically were forced across the river and to the best of my knowledge were not openly recruited. Lund was a Puckhog (Dad was a East Sider), new goalie has thrown a wrench in to goalie position( Current parents are not overly happy about the situation) its a 50/50 proposition whether it's his job.
There is going to be at least 6 forwards along with returners, that aren't going to give Panzer's kid their jobs very easily, besides the fact that Dad is not a very endearing character from across the River.

If East Side was recruiting, could think of 6 players I would have chosen first from GF.
This is a rule in North Dakota, that if you leave to play Tier 1 for a season you cannot come back to play HS Hockey? That sounds...really stupid.

612hockeytown
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Re: Transfers for 2019-20 season

Post by 612hockeytown » Fri May 31, 2019 9:29 am

blueblood wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 8:15 am
No games matter until sections?

Ask Roseasu vs. Warroad, Tonka vs. Edina, Ep vs. Edina; etc. if those regular season games don't matter [-X
They really don’t...? You can go 0-25 and still make sections - and you restart sections with a 0-0 record!! Ask Edin
Ask Pat O’Leary and Wayzata after their 7 or something win regular season state tourney chip a few years ago. Weren’t they 0-3 or similar against Edina reg season?

Does it matter to the team, coaches, community? Yeah.
In the USHL / NAHL - you don’t make the playoffs with that kind of play.

ThatMNHockeyGuy62
Posts: 382
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Re: Transfers for 2019-20 season

Post by ThatMNHockeyGuy62 » Fri May 31, 2019 9:31 am

InThePipes wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 8:13 am
ThatMNHockeyGuy62 wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 9:15 pm
minnscout wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 7:01 pm
Goalies in general commit at older age typically while playing Junior, it has nothing to do with MN HS Hockey.
⬆️⬆️ This 👏

A better metric to compare would be if MN HS goalies move on to Tier 1 or Tier 2 juniors at a higher or lower rate than full season U16 or U18 AAA goalies. My guess is it would be pretty darn similar.
Agree, just thinking about recent Brimsek finalists as a starting point for goalies that played through MNHS here are a few names:

Alander - no junior that I'm aware of
Althaus - bounced around jrs, recently committed D3
Begley - GB of USHL and most recently NCDC
McEwen - Spent a season in Canada, nothing that I'm aware of recently
Garrity - NAHL last year, split time
Kelly - NAHL last year, played about 20%
Boynton - tendered by NAHL
Mueller - TBD
Glockner - TBD
Yeah, and starting with FB finalists is good, but to really get a good idea we need to look beyond that. So many examples of goalies who hardly excelled in high school and went on to play juniors and then D1. Again proving the point that goalies take a way longer path to development. Four examples going back a ways: Erik Anderson (was just above average for Chanhassen and is now playing D1 at Air Force), Jacob Berger (had below .900 sv% for Tonka his jr and sr year and is now at MN State), Adam Carlson (Edina goalie who played Jr Gold thru sr year, then played D1 and has since signed pro contract), Tommy Burke (Had decent jr and sr seasons at Holy Angels and went on to play 4 years D1 at Bowling Green after a couple in the NAHL).

Slap Shot
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Re: Transfers for 2019-20 season

Post by Slap Shot » Fri May 31, 2019 9:48 am

yesiplayedhockey wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 12:27 pm
It's my opinion that SOME scouts "prefer" kids playing Tier 1 (or Juniors) over High School

Do I always agree with them...Of course not.. As with many things, sometime they are right and sometimes they are wrong.

Today GOOD scouts, college coaches and the top shelf advisers will rarely say "no worries jimmy and billy, just stay in High school until you graduate...You'll be fine" ....If you have the ability to play at the USHL level, they want you there as soon as you are ready.

High School hockey is hands down my favorite product to watch. But if the goal is to exceed to that next level (college) then the next level (pro), getting into a good junior program sooner than later is now the norm...5-10 years ago lots of MN kids went from HS straight to D-1....I'll be interested to see how that compares to what you will see 2,3,5 years from now....

Again..not hear to argue..Just giving you my opinion
I'm not saying kids shouldn't leave early. Many have absolutely benefited from it, for some it didn't work out, for a few others it possibly made no difference at all in their progression. But your reply doesn't really address my response to your previous point #5.

If the perceptions are that MN HS players are weak, soft, etc., why do so many that play to at least their junior year of h.s. still get drafted and compete at a high level including juniors, NCAA and NHL? And how many that stay that long are being drafted lower than you think they should be based upon their on ice performances through their last year of h.s. - including those that played to at least their junior year? Because if those are actual perceptions we should see that bear out come draft time, etc. Given how many kids make to NCAA Div I and the NHL that played at least some h.s. hockey it's pretty ignorant perception to have.

HockeyFan1969
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Re: Transfers for 2019-20 season

Post by HockeyFan1969 » Fri May 31, 2019 10:06 am

612hockeytown wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 9:29 am
blueblood wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 8:15 am
No games matter until sections?

Ask Roseasu vs. Warroad, Tonka vs. Edina, Ep vs. Edina; etc. if those regular season games don't matter [-X
They really don’t...? You can go 0-25 and still make sections - and you restart sections with a 0-0 record!! Ask Edin
Ask Pat O’Leary and Wayzata after their 7 or something win regular season state tourney chip a few years ago. Weren’t they 0-3 or similar against Edina reg season?

Does it matter to the team, coaches, community? Yeah.
In the USHL / NAHL - you don’t make the playoffs with that kind of play.
Wayzata's State Tourney Champs were 16-8-1 in the regular season, won 6 more in post season to finish 22-8-1. Not gaudy, but not 7 wins either.

I think everyone can agree that USHL/NAHL routes are far more competitive and most players and goalies have to go that route before playing next level hockey whether T1 or HS. I think the bigger question is the Tier 1 vs MN HS comparison.

For scouts, it sometimes comes down to asset allocation. A scout can sit in a single arena over a weekend and watch a bunch of T1 teams without switching hotels, can also talk to other scouts about guys and get a ton of info versus trying to juggle schedules and hit HS games at 6 arenas over a few days. Sometimes less about hockey and more about business/expense control. Not all cases, but certainly a portion.

612hockeytown
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Re: Transfers for 2019-20 season

Post by 612hockeytown » Fri May 31, 2019 10:44 am

HockeyFan1969 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 10:06 am
612hockeytown wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 9:29 am
blueblood wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 8:15 am
No games matter until sections?

Ask Roseasu vs. Warroad, Tonka vs. Edina, Ep vs. Edina; etc. if those regular season games don't matter [-X
They really don’t...? You can go 0-25 and still make sections - and you restart sections with a 0-0 record!! Ask Edin
Ask Pat O’Leary and Wayzata after their 7 or something win regular season state tourney chip a few years ago. Weren’t they 0-3 or similar against Edina reg season?

Does it matter to the team, coaches, community? Yeah.
In the USHL / NAHL - you don’t make the playoffs with that kind of play.
Wayzata's State Tourney Champs were 16-8-1 in the regular season, won 6 more in post season to finish 22-8-1. Not gaudy, but not 7 wins either.

I think everyone can agree that USHL/NAHL routes are far more competitive and most players and goalies have to go that route before playing next level hockey whether T1 or HS. I think the bigger question is the Tier 1 vs MN HS comparison.

For scouts, it sometimes comes down to asset allocation. A scout can sit in a single arena over a weekend and watch a bunch of T1 teams without switching hotels, can also talk to other scouts about guys and get a ton of info versus trying to juggle schedules and hit HS games at 6 arenas over a few days. Sometimes less about hockey and more about business/expense control. Not all cases, but certainly a portion.
It was the year after - they were 7-17-1 and made the state tourney. Didn’t win it all, made it.

You don’t make the playoffs in many leagues with that kind of winning % either.

612hockeytown
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Re: Transfers for 2019-20 season

Post by 612hockeytown » Fri May 31, 2019 10:46 am

And correct - you can play through your senior year and play college hockey at the D1 level as a goalie. But you will have to play 1-2 years of juniors prior to that commitment way more often than not. Evenson was on his way to D3 until a nice NAHL run landed him at Army with little to spare time wise (aging out).

ThatMNHockeyGuy62
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Re: Transfers for 2019-20 season

Post by ThatMNHockeyGuy62 » Fri May 31, 2019 10:59 am

612hockeytown wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 10:46 am
And correct - you can play through your senior year and play college hockey at the D1 level as a goalie. But you will have to play 1-2 years of juniors prior to that commitment way more often than not. Evenson was on his way to D3 until a nice NAHL run landed him at Army with little to spare time wise (aging out).
This is exactly my point. It’s not a MN HS thing, it’s a goalies take longer thing. More often than not, the goalies who leave early to play Tier 1 or NAHL will still have to wait until they are 19 or 20 before stepping on campus.

612hockeytown
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Re: Transfers for 2019-20 season

Post by 612hockeytown » Fri May 31, 2019 11:18 am

From 98 - on though (and it’s still early for many) - Minnesota goalies in juniors are still struggling to find a D1 spot. This isn’t a slam, but I’m disappointed that we don’t have more goalies at the higher level. Many are deserving right?

I also get many probably quit too. Fritsinger, Lance Leonard, etc. many probably don’t want to play a year or two of juniors if they have other plans?

It’s like sending one goalie to Natty’s at 15/16/17 too. Many

See: Begley (almost 21 years old), Jackson Hjelle, Matt Fitzgerald (??) etc.

We send a ton of D1 skaters, very few goalies compared to Michigan and the east coast. At least from what I see.

USA218
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Re: Transfers for 2019-20 season

Post by USA218 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:59 am

SCBlueLiner wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 8:30 am
BleedGreen5 wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 10:47 am
Hockeylogger wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 11:53 pm



If this is pure hogwash why is Jeff Panzer's house for sale in Grand Fork's? I've heard it's a done deal that his kid is playing in EGF next year. A lot of people in EGF are going to have to quit throwing stones now that they live in a glass house.
Both the goalie this coming year and Lund left GF to go play AAA in South Dakota and per ND rules couldn't return to High School hockey. Basically were forced across the river and to the best of my knowledge were not openly recruited. Lund was a Puckhog (Dad was a East Sider), new goalie has thrown a wrench in to goalie position( Current parents are not overly happy about the situation) its a 50/50 proposition whether it's his job.
There is going to be at least 6 forwards along with returners, that aren't going to give Panzer's kid their jobs very easily, besides the fact that Dad is not a very endearing character from across the River.

If East Side was recruiting, could think of 6 players I would have chosen first from GF.
This is a rule in North Dakota, that if you leave to play Tier 1 for a season you cannot come back to play HS Hockey? That sounds...really stupid.
I believe it is more of a situation in which the players enrolled in another school which makes them ineligible. I also believe it is a one year penalty, not their entire HS time. Not positive the way this works, but dont believe it is a "hockey" issue as much as it being a school enrollment issue which results in loss of a year of eligibility.
ND hockey is not good! They have some outstanding players and a couple of very good teams every year, but as a whole, they suck and I hate to see people penalized by their rules for chasing a dream if they get the opportunity. I know I will be moving back to MN when my kids are a little older for better hockey (and I just dont like saying I'm from ND). And i wont be moving because we are being recruited :D

WestMetro
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Re: Transfers for 2019-20 season

Post by WestMetro » Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:10 pm

Hearing there is one big transfer coming between classes , with potential implications at the X. Too soon to name specifics.

CakeScout17
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Re: Transfers for 2019-20 season

Post by CakeScout17 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:02 am

WestMetro wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:10 pm
Hearing there is one big transfer coming between classes , with potential implications at the X. Too soon to name specifics.
Westy,
You SHALL reveal before and/or AT the Summer Showcase in July. Our collective baited breath will expire by 12N CST on 7/19/19.

WestMetro
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Re: Transfers for 2019-20 season

Post by WestMetro » Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:22 am

Will do Cake . Do you have the dates and times and pairings yet? Can you publish?

6AAGuy
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Re: Transfers for 2019-20 season

Post by 6AAGuy » Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:52 pm

Now you've got us curious.. Judging from this thread, WestMetro, you seem to be associated with BSM....Is that the school you believe is getting a transfer in? and I'm guessing your reference to "implications at the X" refers to Xcel, and therefore a state tourney team is getting a transfer OUT?
very interesting--more details, please--even if they are scant....

ThatMNHockeyGuy62
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Re: Transfers for 2019-20 season

Post by ThatMNHockeyGuy62 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:12 pm

Not to be too cynical, but pretty much every transfer between classes is going to involve a fairly high profile player and team with X implications. You don’t often hear about a transfer from Waconia to Shakopee :wink:

blueblood
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Re: Transfers for 2019-20 season

Post by blueblood » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:14 pm

Whoa :-k
Play Like a Champion Today

Slap Shot
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Re: Transfers for 2019-20 season

Post by Slap Shot » Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:52 pm

It's also pretty b.s. to, "put it out there" before providing details. At least name the to and from programs.

karl(east)
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Re: Transfers for 2019-20 season

Post by karl(east) » Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:32 pm

While I've probably been guilty of this once or twice on this forum, I will agree that "I know some secret big news but am going to leave you all in suspense and not share any details on it" statements are rather annoying.

WestMetro
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Re: Transfers for 2019-20 season

Post by WestMetro » Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:46 pm

All I will say is ....

Too early to give specifics , eventually will be clear why .


one of today’s responders home team is the departing players team . If they don’t know, that tells you it’s very closely held . And the direction of the transfer is very unusual.

Yes, very annoying for now , but gives everyone something to post and complain about !

6AA- no association with BSM more than any other team in the West Metro , but then I keep pretty close to the North , South, and East Metro too. I don’t have a home metro team , being originally from Deast myself

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