Moving to Minnesota for HS Hockey

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northwoods oldtimer
Posts: 2425
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:01 pm

Re: Moving to Minnesota for HS Hockey

Post by northwoods oldtimer » Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:35 am

yesiplayedhockey wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:24 am
For every TJ Oshie there are 1,000 plus families out there where things don't work out.

The bottom line is like or not, HS hockey is no longer a community sport. It's now a group of all star teams. AAA hockey has had a lot to do with this as friendships are made during the spring and these ideas got tossed around in the parking lots. Social media and the hype of the state tournament also lead to these families moving around.

I'd love to see the rosters of the top ten HS teams for this year and along side the players names would be how long the kid has worn that towns logo (Answers could be since squirts, pee wee's, bantams, HS or some cases FIRST YEAR)

I would be willing to bet that one MAYBE two top 10 team have a complete roster where every kid has played for that town association since Squirts. I wouldn't be shocked to see most teams having 5-7 lets call them "new" kids (remember some kids in the metro area don't play squirt and/or pee wee for their association instead opting to play a year or two at MN Made).

So maybe someone with the resources could do this as a fun experiment (either take last years top 10 teams or wait for this years rosters to come out)...
Got that right!! Look at EP

GoBigorGoHome
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:28 am

Re: Moving to Minnesota for HS Hockey

Post by GoBigorGoHome » Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:02 pm

northwoods oldtimer wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:35 am
yesiplayedhockey wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:24 am
For every TJ Oshie there are 1,000 plus families out there where things don't work out.

The bottom line is like or not, HS hockey is no longer a community sport. It's now a group of all star teams. AAA hockey has had a lot to do with this as friendships are made during the spring and these ideas got tossed around in the parking lots. Social media and the hype of the state tournament also lead to these families moving around.

I'd love to see the rosters of the top ten HS teams for this year and along side the players names would be how long the kid has worn that towns logo (Answers could be since squirts, pee wee's, bantams, HS or some cases FIRST YEAR)

I would be willing to bet that one MAYBE two top 10 team have a complete roster where every kid has played for that town association since Squirts. I wouldn't be shocked to see most teams having 5-7 lets call them "new" kids (remember some kids in the metro area don't play squirt and/or pee wee for their association instead opting to play a year or two at MN Made).

So maybe someone with the resources could do this as a fun experiment (either take last years top 10 teams or wait for this years rosters to come out)...
Got that right!! Look at EP
Using last year's roster as a starting point, LN will have at least 6 this year who did not play association hockey for LN and who either moved-in (1), or open enrolled (5):

AA, CS, TS, KK (move-in), SE, BM

Doc Holliday
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Re: Moving to Minnesota for HS Hockey

Post by Doc Holliday » Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:12 pm

Curious what people think of Minnesota Made kids that begin their development outside an association & then move in, whether it's 2nd year of squirts or when in Pee Wees or Bantams.....

There was a story (whether it was true or not) about Brandon Steege, who played at Burnsville in '90, wanted to transfer to Edina, but Ikola didn't promise him a spot on the team, only saying that he would have to tryout. Steege decided to transfer to Richfield & play with Darby & Dan Hendrickson for the 90-91 season, one in which Richfield defeated Edina 3 times, including 4-2 in the section final....

Would Steege have been the difference between who won section 6 that year? Not only that, would Steege have been the difference in the state semifinal against Duluth East, one East won in OT, had he stayed at Burnsville?

goldy313
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Re: Moving to Minnesota for HS Hockey

Post by goldy313 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:07 am

If you are moving to any school district for your kid to play hockey you are an idiot. Your kid has far better chance to make a living and career based on his education than his hockey talents and those numbers are not even close. This topic shows up yearly and is as dumb every time.....if you have the money to move for hockey clearly you have the money to afford a quality college education.
.

yesiplayedhockey
Posts: 256
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:33 am

Re: Moving to Minnesota for HS Hockey

Post by yesiplayedhockey » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:34 am

Doc Holiday

I think MNMade does an excellent job in early development.Their choice Mite league in really good for kids starting out. Plus it takes the pressure of associations who are already hurting for ice time. Most associations pile 40-50 mites on the ice for 45 minutes of babysitting. The training these young kids get is no where near the quality a mite kid can get at the Made

But that is where it stops. In my opinion kids should go back to their association come squirts. The real problem I have with Made is when they start trying to build out their Quebec team. Years ago kids would actually quit their pee wee team in the middle of the season to go play in this. If I was a pee wee coach, I would have said you leave the team and you're not coming back. Now kids have to play the whole year at Made. Kids actually give up one whole year of association hockey just to play in this one tournament.

Now this is were the Made lovers are going to come at me and say GREATEST EXPERIENECE EVER....I call BS....if that is truly the pinnacle of your kids hockey career than i truly feel sorry for you....I would take a weekend in Roseau over a week in quebec any time. My other problem with Made is that if you play thru Squits and pee wees, you're basically playing on the same 2 sheets of ice against the same 4-6 teams wearing the same bland colors over and over and over and over.. I think some kids get burnt out quickly with the repetition.

Understand this...I do applaud Bernie for his contribution to Minnesota hockey. It's not easy making a living selling ice. He's been an asset to so many kids...Made absolutely does the best job training the Mites. But in my opinion, that is were it should stop.

SEC Scotty
Posts: 556
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Location: East Metro

Re: Moving to Minnesota for HS Hockey

Post by SEC Scotty » Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:33 am

Total agreement that young kids should play association hockey when they start to travel. Weekend tournaments build lasting friendships for players and parents.

MM has some great off season camps. My youngest did speed academy as a first year Bantam. You could see the difference.

InThePipes
Posts: 328
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:26 pm

Re: Moving to Minnesota for HS Hockey

Post by InThePipes » Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:43 am

yesiplayedhockey wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:34 am
Doc Holiday

I think MNMade does an excellent job in early development.Their choice Mite league in really good for kids starting out. Plus it takes the pressure of associations who are already hurting for ice time. Most associations pile 40-50 mites on the ice for 45 minutes of babysitting. The training these young kids get is no where near the quality a mite kid can get at the Made

But that is where it stops. In my opinion kids should go back to their association come squirts. The real problem I have with Made is when they start trying to build out their Quebec team. Years ago kids would actually quit their pee wee team in the middle of the season to go play in this. If I was a pee wee coach, I would have said you leave the team and you're not coming back. Now kids have to play the whole year at Made. Kids actually give up one whole year of association hockey just to play in this one tournament.

Now this is were the Made lovers are going to come at me and say GREATEST EXPERIENECE EVER....I call BS....if that is truly the pinnacle of your kids hockey career than i truly feel sorry for you....I would take a weekend in Roseau over a week in quebec any time. My other problem with Made is that if you play thru Squits and pee wees, you're basically playing on the same 2 sheets of ice against the same 4-6 teams wearing the same bland colors over and over and over and over.. I think some kids get burnt out quickly with the repetition.

Understand this...I do applaud Bernie for his contribution to Minnesota hockey. It's not easy making a living selling ice. He's been an asset to so many kids...Made absolutely does the best job training the Mites. But in my opinion, that is were it should stop.
I think this is a fair, there is a place for it, but there are some limitations (just as there are some limitations with every other option).

O-townClown
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Re: Moving to Minnesota for HS Hockey

Post by O-townClown » Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:12 pm

A few days and the tone of the comments is mildly against transfers, with several pointing out that the out-of-state aspect isn't as common - and may not be as bothersome - as movement within MSHSL schools. Trying to summarize multiple comments, so please nobody should feel like I'm saying exactly how they feel.

GB was the strongest in mentioning that families "moving to Minnesota for HS hockey" is a sign of strength, and a compliment to that level of play. A high-class "problem" if it is a problem at all.

Over the years no school has benefitted more from move-ins than Edina. Kids come into the community from within the State of Hockey's borders a, nd from faraway lands. Right or wrong, good or bad, there's no way to change the reality that whoever have strong programs at the time are more likely to benefit from migration. Like a magnet, the rich get richer.

Of these three options, I think Minnesota has it best.
* Kids move to Minnesota for HS hockey
* Kids move to various other states for Midget or Junior hockey
* Kids leave from non-traditional hockey states for higher level hockey
Be kind. Rewind.

minnscout
Posts: 437
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Re: Moving to Minnesota for HS Hockey

Post by minnscout » Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:01 pm

yesiplayedhockey wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:34 am
Doc Holiday

I think MNMade does an excellent job in early development.Their choice Mite league in really good for kids starting out. Plus it takes the pressure of associations who are already hurting for ice time. Most associations pile 40-50 mites on the ice for 45 minutes of babysitting. The training these young kids get is no where near the quality a mite kid can get at the Made

But that is where it stops. In my opinion kids should go back to their association come squirts. The real problem I have with Made is when they start trying to build out their Quebec team. Years ago kids would actually quit their pee wee team in the middle of the season to go play in this. If I was a pee wee coach, I would have said you leave the team and you're not coming back. Now kids have to play the whole year at Made. Kids actually give up one whole year of association hockey just to play in this one tournament.

Now this is were the Made lovers are going to come at me and say GREATEST EXPERIENECE EVER....I call BS....if that is truly the pinnacle of your kids hockey career than i truly feel sorry for you....I would take a weekend in Roseau over a week in quebec any time. My other problem with Made is that if you play thru Squits and pee wees, you're basically playing on the same 2 sheets of ice against the same 4-6 teams wearing the same bland colors over and over and over and over.. I think some kids get burnt out quickly with the repetition.

Understand this...I do applaud Bernie for his contribution to Minnesota hockey. It's not easy making a living selling ice. He's been an asset to so many kids...Made absolutely does the best job training the Mites. But in my opinion, that is were it should stop.
Roseau instead of playing 2 weeks in Quebec now that is funny! Ask anyone that has played in Quebec tournament and any MN youth tournament and they will say you're your out of your mind.

InThePipes
Posts: 328
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:26 pm

Re: Moving to Minnesota for HS Hockey

Post by InThePipes » Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:00 pm

O-townClown wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:12 pm
A few days and the tone of the comments is mildly against transfers, with several pointing out that the out-of-state aspect isn't as common - and may not be as bothersome - as movement within MSHSL schools. Trying to summarize multiple comments, so please nobody should feel like I'm saying exactly how they feel.

GB was the strongest in mentioning that families "moving to Minnesota for HS hockey" is a sign of strength, and a compliment to that level of play. A high-class "problem" if it is a problem at all.

Over the years no school has benefitted more from move-ins than Edina. Kids come into the community from within the State of Hockey's borders a, nd from faraway lands. Right or wrong, good or bad, there's no way to change the reality that whoever have strong programs at the time are more likely to benefit from migration. Like a magnet, the rich get richer.

Of these three options, I think Minnesota has it best.
* Kids move to Minnesota for HS hockey
* Kids move to various other states for Midget or Junior hockey
* Kids leave from non-traditional hockey states for higher level hockey
Let's face it, if you're moving from out of state for hockey you're most likely going to move to an Edina, EP, maybe Stillwater or go to a private school. Not many people are going to move to MN for hockey and then settle in Apple Valley or Spring Lake Park (not that there is anything wrong with those communities at all). I'd file this one under "if you're going to move to MN to play HS hockey, go big or stay home".

Jeffy95
Posts: 748
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:45 am

Re: Moving to Minnesota for HS Hockey

Post by Jeffy95 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:14 pm

InThePipes wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:00 pm
O-townClown wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:12 pm
A few days and the tone of the comments is mildly against transfers, with several pointing out that the out-of-state aspect isn't as common - and may not be as bothersome - as movement within MSHSL schools. Trying to summarize multiple comments, so please nobody should feel like I'm saying exactly how they feel.

GB was the strongest in mentioning that families "moving to Minnesota for HS hockey" is a sign of strength, and a compliment to that level of play. A high-class "problem" if it is a problem at all.

Over the years no school has benefitted more from move-ins than Edina. Kids come into the community from within the State of Hockey's borders a, nd from faraway lands. Right or wrong, good or bad, there's no way to change the reality that whoever have strong programs at the time are more likely to benefit from migration. Like a magnet, the rich get richer.

Of these three options, I think Minnesota has it best.
* Kids move to Minnesota for HS hockey
* Kids move to various other states for Midget or Junior hockey
* Kids leave from non-traditional hockey states for higher level hockey
Let's face it, if you're moving from out of state for hockey you're most likely going to move to an Edina, EP, maybe Stillwater or go to a private school. Not many people are going to move to MN for hockey and then settle in Apple Valley or Spring Lake Park (not that there is anything wrong with those communities at all). I'd file this one under "if you're going to move to MN to play HS hockey, go big or stay home".
Bump
Last edited by Jeffy95 on Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

yesiplayedhockey
Posts: 256
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:33 am

Re: Moving to Minnesota for HS Hockey

Post by yesiplayedhockey » Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:30 am

MN Scout...I've talked to plenty trust me...And I've gotten texts from parents while they were there...Social media tends to create this "everything is perfect" world but behind the scenes it's just not that way

But we are getting off topic and if someone wants to start a thread called "why a week in Quebec is better than a year of association" I'll be happy to add in my thoughts

minnscout
Posts: 437
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:35 pm

Re: Moving to Minnesota for HS Hockey

Post by minnscout » Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:28 pm

yesiplayedhockey wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:30 am
MN Scout...I've talked to plenty trust me...And I've gotten texts from parents while they were there...Social media tends to create this "everything is perfect" world but behind the scenes it's just not that way

But we are getting off topic and if someone wants to start a thread called "why a week in Quebec is better than a year of association" I'll be happy to add in my thoughts
Have you been to Quebec pee wee tournament YesIplayedhockey or had a son that played in it? Believe me it's better experience then any MN youth tournament.

That guy for that thing
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Re: Moving to Minnesota for HS Hockey

Post by That guy for that thing » Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:45 pm

minnscout wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:28 pm
yesiplayedhockey wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:30 am
MN Scout...I've talked to plenty trust me...And I've gotten texts from parents while they were there...Social media tends to create this "everything is perfect" world but behind the scenes it's just not that way

But we are getting off topic and if someone wants to start a thread called "why a week in Quebec is better than a year of association" I'll be happy to add in my thoughts
Have you been to Quebec pee wee tournament YesIplayedhockey or had a son that played in it? Believe me it's better experience then any MN youth tournament.
I have not been to said Quebec tourney, but I have been to tourneys in Ontario and Manitoba that were not just a weekend, and imo, I did the same thing at the hotel as I did at any other mn youth tourney. I have no experience at the Quebec tourney, so I dont know how the games are formatted but I have my tourneys were 20 minutes stop time with a zam every period and 6 games gauranteed. I got a ton of ice, and the road trip was fun, but playing in the weekend tourneys in Hibbing and Roseau have just as much value to me historically than those tourneys in Canada. For the most part, they were with the same kids. Who cares who you play against, its who you play with that makes the experience cool FOR THE KIDS

yesiplayedhockey
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Re: Moving to Minnesota for HS Hockey

Post by yesiplayedhockey » Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:45 pm

just let it go scout...let it go......I'm not going to argue with you on if the tournament is a good one or not..But to try and convince me that one weekend in quebec is worth giving up a whole season of association hockey is laughable at best. You're better than that..

ThatMNHockeyGuy62
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Re: Moving to Minnesota for HS Hockey

Post by ThatMNHockeyGuy62 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:00 pm

yesiplayedhockey wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:45 pm
just let it go scout...let it go......I'm not going to argue with you on if the tournament is a good one or not..But to try and convince me that one weekend in quebec is worth giving up a whole season of association hockey is laughable at best. You're better than that..
Minnscout is just a tad biased given he coaches at the Quebec tournament and has forked over the money himself for his kid to play in it. He is obviously happy with his decision, and I’m sure his kid is too, so for them that’s the right decision. Doesn’t mean it’s the best for most.

yesiplayedhockey
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Re: Moving to Minnesota for HS Hockey

Post by yesiplayedhockey » Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:13 am

Thanks for clarifying

I agree with Scout that it's very well run.....and attended. Their budget is "a little bigger" than the budget of the local associations that are run by a group of volunteers

My issue with these tournaments (this and the brick) is that it's a coach to win tournament to early in these kids life. We are fortunate to have our association model here in Minnesota and one of the great benefits is we don't have to travel far to play good hockey..Most pee wee coaches are, I hope, pretty much rolling lines even in the tightest of games..

These "all star teams" typically come with a short bench, stressed out parents and kids that for the first time in their life walk away not understanding why 4,5,6 kids got all the ice time. I'm sure some coaches are better than others at "running the bench'. But overall If you surveyed every parent that sat in the stands for those 7-10 days, close to half would be disappointed (like i said earlier, I've received those texts). I also heard MN Made was banned for a couple years. I can't remember why

Not here to pick a fight scout. I thank you for volunteering to coach a bunch of kids. I hope you continue to do so in the town you live.

InThePipes
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Re: Moving to Minnesota for HS Hockey

Post by InThePipes » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:31 am

This might have gotten off-track a little when instead of comparing the opportunity to participate in the Quebec tournament to giving up an entire year of association hockey, which is the trade-off some were arguably making, it instead started going down the path of which tournament is better Quebec or Roseau? Those are two vastly different questions with likely different answers.

minnscout
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Re: Moving to Minnesota for HS Hockey

Post by minnscout » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:33 pm

yesiplayedhockey wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:13 am
Thanks for clarifying

I agree with Scout that it's very well run.....and attended. Their budget is "a little bigger" than the budget of the local associations that are run by a group of volunteers

My issue with these tournaments (this and the brick) is that it's a coach to win tournament to early in these kids life. We are fortunate to have our association model here in Minnesota and one of the great benefits is we don't have to travel far to play good hockey..Most pee wee coaches are, I hope, pretty much rolling lines even in the tightest of games..

These "all star teams" typically come with a short bench, stressed out parents and kids that for the first time in their life walk away not understanding why 4,5,6 kids got all the ice time. I'm sure some coaches are better than others at "running the bench'. But overall If you surveyed every parent that sat in the stands for those 7-10 days, close to half would be disappointed (like i said earlier, I've received those texts). I also heard MN Made was banned for a couple years. I can't remember why

Not here to pick a fight scout. I thank you for volunteering to coach a bunch of kids. I hope you continue to do so in the town you live.
Thanks, I have been to tournaments all over MN, US and Canada. Quebec PeeWee tournament is by far the best experience. It's not even the hockey but the kids staying with billet families and all the other activities the kids participated in. Memories of a lifetime for the kids. Many of the families and kids they met on that trip are still friends today.

Slap Shot
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Re: Moving to Minnesota for HS Hockey

Post by Slap Shot » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:19 am

"Ask anyone". Just ask.

O-townClown
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Re: Moving to Minnesota for HS Hockey

Post by O-townClown » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:45 am

Pee Wee Quebec is wonderful, no doubt. It's more than a hockey tournament because it is in large part a vacation. Consider that when comparing to others.

A friend grew up in Quebec and now lives in South Florida. Schools are off that week in Quebec, so kids aren't sacrificing that. He was puzzled how so many kids from all over the world get pulled out of school for a week-plus of 12-year old hockey. His quote, "I played in Pee Wee Quebec as a kid. I lived there."

From these posts, it seems to some Minnesotans "Pee Wee Quebec" is more than it would be to others. It is a marketing hook for Made, so the more appealing it sounds the better off they are. My suspicion is a great deal of the appeal for some is the not-everybody-can-do-this mindset derided as "checkbook hockey".

Pretty far off topic here. We'll never all agree on whether it is good, bad, or a non-issue to have people move to Minnesota for HS hockey. There's definitely a NIMBY mindset in some of these comments. GB sees it elevating the whole, while others look solely at the impact it has had in their community.
Be kind. Rewind.

yesiplayedhockey
Posts: 256
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:33 am

Re: Moving to Minnesota for HS Hockey

Post by yesiplayedhockey » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:58 am

I agree...the topic is moving to MN for HS hockey

Not "moving WITHIN MN for HS hockey"...Or Moving within MN BEFORE HS Hockey

Question I have is how often does that really happen...Families moving here when their kid is say a Junior or Senior

Is it truly a problem? Does the family move here with the kid (which then there's nothing we can do) or does the kid just move here and stay at a buddies house? How often is the HS coach "part of the process" ...

thefatcat
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Re: Moving to Minnesota for HS Hockey

Post by thefatcat » Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:07 pm

O-townClown wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:45 am
Pee Wee Quebec is wonderful, no doubt. It's more than a hockey tournament because it is in large part a vacation. Consider that when comparing to others.

A friend grew up in Quebec and now lives in South Florida. Schools are off that week in Quebec, so kids aren't sacrificing that. He was puzzled how so many kids from all over the world get pulled out of school for a week-plus of 12-year old hockey. His quote, "I played in Pee Wee Quebec as a kid. I lived there."

From these posts, it seems to some Minnesotans "Pee Wee Quebec" is more than it would be to others. It is a marketing hook for Made, so the more appealing it sounds the better off they are. My suspicion is a great deal of the appeal for some is the not-everybody-can-do-this mindset derided as "checkbook hockey".

Pretty far off topic here. We'll never all agree on whether it is good, bad, or a non-issue to have people move to Minnesota for HS hockey. There's definitely a NIMBY mindset in some of these comments. GB sees it elevating the whole, while others look solely at the impact it has had in their community.
MN Made doesn't send a team every year, they're not an automatic entry. The 03's went, the 04's and 05's did not, last year it was the 06's turn. The 07's might go (big maybe) and I highly doubt the 08's will go.

*There was a kerfuffel with the '04 team as they were assembled and ready to go...and at the last minute it fell thru. Something to the effect that whoever is the tourney rep from here (it's not a Made employee I am told) ticked off the Quebec group and they decided not to include them.

Doc Holliday
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Re: Moving to Minnesota for HS Hockey

Post by Doc Holliday » Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:55 pm

I didn't mean to get into a MN Made vs. Association argument; I think most have their opinions on it. I think most don't have a problem with it when they come back for 1st year Squirts....it's more about coming back after that point.

I was simply talking about coming back into an association after years of playing there, perhaps similar to coming into a community for hockey. Perhaps most don't really see them a similar ballpark.

Back to the topic at hand.....

yesiplayedhockey
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Re: Moving to Minnesota for HS Hockey

Post by yesiplayedhockey » Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:13 pm

I think if you left and came back "years" later there shouldn't be any issues

It's the ones that left and came back a year later that needs more clarification

In the case of the kid who's dad coaches at the U...I am perfectly fine with that and there should be no issues if he goes back (assuming everything is cool to the the high school league)

If the kid played HS as a 10th grader, left a year then came back as a senior? I could see a coach saying no way...I could see the kid struggling to get teammate approval....But again it's all based on circumstance....Sometimes it may be a job situation (like in the U's HC kid). Sometimes it's a kid maybe surrounding himself with some bad eggs at school and the parents wants to pull him out of there fast.

But, lets be honest, usually it's a dad upset about playing time and moving the kid to what he perceives is a better situation for hockey. Then a year later the kid (and probably the mom) wins and the kid gets to go back to his old team.

In general I'd say be careful not blame the kid ...9 times out of 10 it's not him begging for the change

Hockey is still a kid's game yet today more than ever, is controlled, altered and manipulated by never satisfied adults

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