One Change to the Playoffs/State Tournament

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goldy313
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Re: One Change to the Playoffs/State Tournament

Post by goldy313 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:07 am

The A champ goes through less a gauntlet than most AA teams just to get to state, let alone win it. Why give them a bye into a game like that?

If you are old like me you can remember when the Minneapolis Star sponsoring a football game between the mythical public and private school champions. Cretin played one tough opponent, if that, while Austin (or whomever) played 6 or 7. And now you think you can can a “true” state champ?

My change.....move the class A tournament to a rotation of venues of Duluth, Moorhead, Rochester, St. Cloud, and Mankato. Stop them coat tailing on the AA tournament and see what happens.

Section 8 guy
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Re: One Change to the Playoffs/State Tournament

Post by Section 8 guy » Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:25 am

I actually kind of like that. It has enough wrinkles to it that you couldn’t actually do it. But it would sure make people think twice about taking the trophy chaser route.

northwoods oldtimer
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Re: One Change to the Playoffs/State Tournament

Post by northwoods oldtimer » Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:45 am

goldy313 wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:07 am
The A champ goes through less a gauntlet than most AA teams just to get to state, let alone win it. Why give them a bye into a game like that?

If you are old like me you can remember when the Minneapolis Star sponsoring a football game between the mythical public and private school champions. Cretin played one tough opponent, if that, while Austin (or whomever) played 6 or 7. And now you think you can can a “true” state champ?

My change.....move the class A tournament to a rotation of venues of Duluth, Moorhead, Rochester, St. Cloud, and Mankato. Stop them coat tailing on the AA tournament and see what happens.
Golden goldy =D> =D> =D>

Joe2015
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Re: One Change to the Playoffs/State Tournament

Post by Joe2015 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:15 am

goldy313 wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:07 am
The A champ goes through less a gauntlet than most AA teams just to get to state, let alone win it. Why give them a bye into a game like that?

If you are old like me you can remember when the Minneapolis Star sponsoring a football game between the mythical public and private school champions. Cretin played one tough opponent, if that, while Austin (or whomever) played 6 or 7. And now you think you can can a “true” state champ?

My change.....move the class A tournament to a rotation of venues of Duluth, Moorhead, Rochester, St. Cloud, and Mankato. Stop them coat tailing on the AA tournament and see what happens.
I agree with the first part: no need for a cross-over game or anything like that.

But why move the tournament? It doesnt interfere with the AA tournament besides making them move the consolation games (which nobody goes to anyway). Wednesday's games are usually a bit lopsided but semi-final Friday's game are usually great. Ive gone the past few seasons and havent been disappointed.

East Side Pioneer Guy
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Re: One Change to the Playoffs/State Tournament

Post by East Side Pioneer Guy » Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:13 pm

kniven wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:14 pm
StanleyCup55 wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:41 pm
Definitely class A champ playing class AA champ. What a game that would be every year. Place would be full and atmosphere electric.

Also no section finals games played at same time. I’d like to hit them all
I don’t like it. But that’s just me. I wasn’t a fan back in the 40’s and 50’s so I don’t bow down, or need the big guy vs. the little guy game. Plus, the teams that win A these days are far from the teams that were little guys little guy in the 40’ and 50’s.
True that.

East Side Pioneer Guy
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Re: One Change to the Playoffs/State Tournament

Post by East Side Pioneer Guy » Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:15 pm

goldy313 wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:07 am
The A champ goes through less a gauntlet than most AA teams just to get to state, let alone win it. Why give them a bye into a game like that?

If you are old like me you can remember when the Minneapolis Star sponsoring a football game between the mythical public and private school champions. Cretin played one tough opponent, if that, while Austin (or whomever) played 6 or 7. And now you think you can can a “true” state champ?

My change.....move the class A tournament to a rotation of venues of Duluth, Moorhead, Rochester, St. Cloud, and Mankato. Stop them coat tailing on the AA tournament and see what happens.
TV will not double their costs. It would lead to hurt feelings if the small schools side were not televised. We can't be harming anyone's self-esteem,

East Side Pioneer Guy
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Re: One Change to the Playoffs/State Tournament

Post by East Side Pioneer Guy » Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:21 pm

Sixteen teams? Ooff.

Would that be 4 games in 4 days? Not gonna happen.

Would it be the first round on Tuesday? Or Monday & Tuesday? In that case, it's not a 16 team field, but an 8 team field with 8 super regional games.

This many verisons of a 16 team field are just attempts to have what really works best, which is an 8 team one class field.

And three classes? Double ooff. I'd hope the two lower fields would only have 4 teams in the state tournament.

East Side Pioneer Guy
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Re: One Change to the Playoffs/State Tournament

Post by East Side Pioneer Guy » Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:54 am

7TIMECHAMPS wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:59 pm
StanleyCup55 wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:41 pm
Definitely class A champ playing class AA champ. What a game that would be every year. Place would be full and atmosphere electric.

Also no section finals games played at same time. I’d like to hit them all
Not sure that I like this idea. It increases the prestige of the class A champion at the expense of the AA champion. A big part of the of the AA tournament is the number of quality teams that you have to beat to even get to the tournament (or farther down the road the championship game). In any given year there are a few teams in A that could compete with the AA champ. However, the road to that championship is far different. 2017 Rapids may be a bit of an extreme example but you get the point. By creating this sort of NFC/AFC Super Bowl type of game it really cheapens the AA title.

Some people will probably blast me for saying this because of the everyone is a winner culture etc but when the question is posed "could the A champ have beat the AA champ" I always think either play AA and prove that you can beat six AA teams in a row or don't pose the question. Because a lot of times to even get to the championship you have to beat 4-5 pretty quality opponents. You don't just get to jump to the championship game and see what happens. So go out there and prove that you could even make that game or be content with winning at the level you are at.
Very well stated. This would really water down the big school side.

If you really want one champion, it needs to be one class.

Edinahopkins
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Re: One Change to the Playoffs/State Tournament

Post by Edinahopkins » Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:01 pm

I personally think MSHSL needs Boys hockey more then boys Hockey needs the MSHSL. would it be better for everyone to opt out and just be under Minnesota hockey? You can still do the state tournament the same. You could have sectionals or adopt region play like youth hockey. You could then play 40-50 Regular season games a year! I think it would grow high school hockey but I could be wrong.

WarmUpTheBus
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Re: One Change to the Playoffs/State Tournament

Post by WarmUpTheBus » Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:17 pm

hockey59 wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:10 pm
Section 8 guy wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:00 pm
Very well said 7. Agree with all of it.

Make the AA section finals into a prep bowl type event and televise them all. Either 4 on Friday or 4 on Saturday....back to back to back to back......or 2 Thursday, 2 Friday and 4 Saturday. In many ways the Section final is the most important game of the year. I’d watch em all.
Agree, that’s a tremendous idea! And one added caveat...DE (or Cloquet) doesn’t get to play at Amsoil for the section final either 😉🤣
And figure out a way to get Sections 3,4 and 5 back to the Coliseum!

zooomx
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Re: One Change to the Playoffs/State Tournament

Post by zooomx » Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:20 pm

Edinahopkins wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:01 pm
I personally think MSHSL needs Boys hockey more then boys Hockey needs the MSHSL. would it be better for everyone to opt out and just be under Minnesota hockey? You can still do the state tournament the same. You could have sectionals or adopt region play like youth hockey. You could then play 40-50 Regular season games a year! I think it would grow high school hockey but I could be wrong.
Yeah... no. This would lead to club hockey like we see everywhere else in the country.

East Side Pioneer Guy
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Re: One Change to the Playoffs/State Tournament

Post by East Side Pioneer Guy » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:31 pm

WarmUpTheBus wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:17 pm
hockey59 wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:10 pm
Section 8 guy wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:00 pm
Very well said 7. Agree with all of it.

Make the AA section finals into a prep bowl type event and televise them all. Either 4 on Friday or 4 on Saturday....back to back to back to back......or 2 Thursday, 2 Friday and 4 Saturday. In many ways the Section final is the most important game of the year. I’d watch em all.
Agree, that’s a tremendous idea! And one added caveat...DE (or Cloquet) doesn’t get to play at Amsoil for the section final either 😉🤣
And figure out a way to get Sections 3,4 and 5 back to the Coliseum!
No. Get section 4 (which was section3) back to the St. Paul Auditorium. With a capacity of 8K and far better sight lines than the Coliseum, it was a great venue. Plus it reeked of hockey history. It hosted the minor league St. Paul Saints, the state tournament from 1945 through 1968, and even the first few games of the Minnesota Fighting Saints while the Civic Center was being finished. When I walk inside it, I still hear echos of the great finals between Hill & North St. Paul & Mariner. The packed house lived & died with every play.

goldy313
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Re: One Change to the Playoffs/State Tournament

Post by goldy313 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:48 pm

Edinahopkins wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:01 pm
I personally think MSHSL needs Boys hockey more then boys Hockey needs the MSHSL. would it be better for everyone to opt out and just be under Minnesota hockey? You can still do the state tournament the same. You could have sectionals or adopt region play like youth hockey. You could then play 40-50 Regular season games a year! I think it would grow high school hockey but I could be wrong.

Not anymore, the MSHSL doesn’t make anywhere near the money they used to make. The Wild charges so much in rent it is barely a break even process anymore. Wrestling draws well and still had to drop a day just to break even. The state screwed up by giving the money to build the X and letting the free rent to high school league sunset. I don’t think they made that mistake with the Vikings.

There would be a few programs that would benefit but playing in front of your classmates and fans is nice. Youth hockey gets 40 people at a big game, AAA is less.....those Sunday 10am tournament championship games in front of 30 people are just a great atmosphere.

defense
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Re: One Change to the Playoffs/State Tournament

Post by defense » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:06 pm

One thing for me? I dont think Class A and AA are going anywhere anytime soon, but a wrinkle mixing up the classes would be interesting.
My one thing that doesnt require a complete re wiring of the system would be if more teams would switch it up now and then and try class AA. Especially in outstate MN. Not sure why almost everyone bailed, but it sure would be fun to see some other teams in it now and then.

Green and White Fan
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Re: One Change to the Playoffs/State Tournament

Post by Green and White Fan » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:25 pm

One section playoff change I would like to see, is the 8AA semi finals be played at a neutral site and both games the same afternoon evening. It used to be that way, but the unfortunately if it goes to a neutral site venue, I am guessing the southern part of the Section would prevail and want it in St. Cloud. Bemidji would be a little more fair and the Sanford would make a great venue. Play it on a Saturday and the championship the following Wednesday.
We've got 7 yes we do, we've got 7, how about you!

CornerBar
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Re: One Change to the Playoffs/State Tournament

Post by CornerBar » Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:13 pm

InThePipes wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:56 am
Agree, I think there is some nonsense about the MSHSL charging some ridiculous sum for anyone who wants to stream the section championship games?
I know that there is a $200 fee for radio stations to broadcast playoff games, so I’m sure TV broadcasts are charged pretty hefty.

SEC Scotty
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Re: One Change to the Playoffs/State Tournament

Post by SEC Scotty » Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:33 pm

WarmUpTheBus wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:17 pm
hockey59 wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:10 pm
Section 8 guy wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:00 pm
Very well said 7. Agree with all of it.

Make the AA section finals into a prep bowl type event and televise them all. Either 4 on Friday or 4 on Saturday....back to back to back to back......or 2 Thursday, 2 Friday and 4 Saturday. In many ways the Section final is the most important game of the year. I’d watch em all.
Agree, that’s a tremendous idea! And one added caveat...DE (or Cloquet) doesn’t get to play at Amsoil for the section final either 😉🤣
And figure out a way to get Sections 3,4 and 5 back to the Coliseum!
Yea I miss the Coliseum come playoff time. Bring back the Schwann’s Ice Cream to the X. That was the best.

Hat Trick Take 2
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Re: One Change to the Playoffs/State Tournament

Post by Hat Trick Take 2 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:56 pm

To get to state host 8 tournaments with teams seeded and placed using and a snake format. Teams seeded 1 through 8 would be in separate brackets/tournaments to get to state.

First round 1 plays 64, 2-63, 3-62, 4-61 and so on.

Why should a mediocre team get in just because they’re in a weak section?

defense
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Re: One Change to the Playoffs/State Tournament

Post by defense » Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:30 pm

Hat Trick Take 2 wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:56 pm
To get to state host 8 tournaments with teams seeded and placed using and a snake format. Teams seeded 1 through 8 would be in separate brackets/tournaments to get to state.

First round 1 plays 64, 2-63, 3-62, 4-61 and so on.

Why should a mediocre team get in just because they’re in a weak section?
Nice idea, no way to accurately seed 64 though.

Duckguy13
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Re: One Change to the Playoffs/State Tournament

Post by Duckguy13 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:18 pm

Would St.Cloud State seat enough for single A tournament, rent would probably be cheap....middle of the state, plenty of hotels, host it the weekend before AA...dollar figures would probably work better for all? Many A fans/teams would go watch AA, and maybe AA a little the other way too.

Then 2 weeks after, have A champ play AA champ for good measure, if A champ wins, they play AA for 5 years. :shock: ,,why not 😃

Might force the hand of the X and MSHL.

BSUBeaver
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Re: One Change to the Playoffs/State Tournament

Post by BSUBeaver » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:49 am

Duckguy13 wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:18 pm
Would St.Cloud State seat enough for single A tournament, rent would probably be cheap....middle of the state, plenty of hotels, host it the weekend before AA...dollar figures would probably work better for all? Many A fans/teams would go watch AA, and maybe AA a little the other way too.

Then 2 weeks after, have A champ play AA champ for good measure, if A champ wins, they play AA for 5 years. :shock: ,,why not 😃

Might force the hand of the X and MSHL.
I don't like the idea of the State Championship being played on Olympic ice as most Class A teams have no experience with that size ice sheet during the season. Plus, it only seats a little over 5,000. Class A tournaments have been drawing more than that for the semis and finals, I believe. I know when Alexandria was in the semis a couple of years ago with Hermantown, and Mahtomedi and Orono were in the other semi, the announce attendence was in the 12,000 range for the session, and a lot of those people were around for both games.

Also, I think you would eventually see some Class A players/schools file an equal access lawsuit much like Girl's Hockey did when they were not playing at the X.

defense
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Re: One Change to the Playoffs/State Tournament

Post by defense » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:45 am

Duckguy13 wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:18 pm
Would St.Cloud State seat enough for single A tournament, rent would probably be cheap....middle of the state, plenty of hotels, host it the weekend before AA...dollar figures would probably work better for all? Many A fans/teams would go watch AA, and maybe AA a little the other way too.

Then 2 weeks after, have A champ play AA champ for good measure, if A champ wins, they play AA for 5 years. :shock: ,,why not 😃

Might force the hand of the X and MSHL.
Not big enough. Class A has grown.

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