Association not allowing privates on top teams

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tourneytickssince59
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:00 pm

Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by tourneytickssince59 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:13 am

Has anyone ever seen an association actually put this down in writing and want it to be part of their bylaws?
This is from the District 2 December meeting notes:
Open Forum Discussion: Stillwater wondering if there’s a rule to prevent them from having players that tryout for high school teams not associated with the association(ie Hill Murray) and do not make that team, that they cannot play on the highest level of association team. I know some associations have unwritten rules but, to put it in writing?

InThePipes
Posts: 505
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:26 pm

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by InThePipes » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:32 am

tourneytickssince59 wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:13 am
Has anyone ever seen an association actually put this down in writing and want it to be part of their bylaws?
This is from the District 2 December meeting notes:
Open Forum Discussion: Stillwater wondering if there’s a rule to prevent them from having players that tryout for high school teams not associated with the association(ie Hill Murray) and do not make that team, that they cannot play on the highest level of association team. I know some associations have unwritten rules but, to put it in writing?
Aren't HS tryouts like a month and a half after the youth season begins?

Jeffy95
Posts: 891
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:45 am

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by Jeffy95 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:01 am

InThePipes wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:32 am
tourneytickssince59 wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:13 am
Has anyone ever seen an association actually put this down in writing and want it to be part of their bylaws?
This is from the District 2 December meeting notes:
Open Forum Discussion: Stillwater wondering if there’s a rule to prevent them from having players that tryout for high school teams not associated with the association(ie Hill Murray) and do not make that team, that they cannot play on the highest level of association team. I know some associations have unwritten rules but, to put it in writing?
Aren't HS tryouts like a month and a half after the youth season begins?
Yes, so under this rule you would basically have to remove them from the top team and replace them, which would be pretty weird for all involved. It's not necessary.

The kid would already attend the Private if he has the option to try out for them, so just don't take them on the top team in the first place. If you know they aren't playing High School for you, let them go through the tryout but put them on the 2nd team and develop your own kids. There's nothing wrong with that. No reason to put anything in writing though, that's just asking for trouble.....

SCBlueLiner
Posts: 639
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:11 pm

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by SCBlueLiner » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:35 am

Jeffy95 wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:01 am
InThePipes wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:32 am
tourneytickssince59 wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:13 am
Has anyone ever seen an association actually put this down in writing and want it to be part of their bylaws?
This is from the District 2 December meeting notes:
Open Forum Discussion: Stillwater wondering if there’s a rule to prevent them from having players that tryout for high school teams not associated with the association(ie Hill Murray) and do not make that team, that they cannot play on the highest level of association team. I know some associations have unwritten rules but, to put it in writing?
Aren't HS tryouts like a month and a half after the youth season begins?
Yes, so under this rule you would basically have to remove them from the top team and replace them, which would be pretty weird for all involved. It's not necessary.

The kid would already attend the Private if he has the option to try out for them, so just don't take them on the top team in the first place. If you know they aren't playing High School for you, let them go through the tryout but put them on the 2nd team and develop your own kids. There's nothing wrong with that. No reason to put anything in writing though, that's just asking for trouble.....
Really? These are still kids we are talking about. So it's okay to sabotage a kid's development by placing them on a lessor team because the kid is going to go to a private school in the future. You see nothing wrong with that?

Along that line of thinking, where the youth hockey association exists to serve as a feeder to the local public school, then it should be okay to allow the private schools to start their own youth hockey organizations. A school like Hill-Murray could have all the hockey playing kids that go to parochial schools in St. Paul or other Catholic school feeders to play for their Hill-Murray Youth Hockey Association. Because the local youth hockey association isn't looking out for the bests interests of all its members, only the ones who are going to the public school.

With that attitude, I wonder how many squirts or pee wees get demoted to lessor teams along the way by their association because they are "private school families" or at least not given the benefit of the doubt in tryouts when compared to a public school kid.

Jeffy95
Posts: 891
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:45 am

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by Jeffy95 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:49 am

SCBlueLiner wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:35 am
Jeffy95 wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:01 am
InThePipes wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:32 am


Aren't HS tryouts like a month and a half after the youth season begins?
Yes, so under this rule you would basically have to remove them from the top team and replace them, which would be pretty weird for all involved. It's not necessary.

The kid would already attend the Private if he has the option to try out for them, so just don't take them on the top team in the first place. If you know they aren't playing High School for you, let them go through the tryout but put them on the 2nd team and develop your own kids. There's nothing wrong with that. No reason to put anything in writing though, that's just asking for trouble.....
Really? These are still kids we are talking about. So it's okay to sabotage a kid's development by placing them on a lessor team because the kid is going to go to a private school in the future. You see nothing wrong with that?

Along that line of thinking, where the youth hockey association exists to serve as a feeder to the local public school, then it should be okay to allow the private schools to start their own youth hockey organizations. A school like Hill-Murray could have all the hockey playing kids that go to parochial schools in St. Paul or other Catholic school feeders to play for their Hill-Murray Youth Hockey Association. Because the local youth hockey association isn't looking out for the bests interests of all its members, only the ones who are going to the public school.

With that attitude, I wonder how many squirts or pee wees get demoted to lessor teams along the way by their association because they are "private school families" or at least not given the benefit of the doubt in tryouts when compared to a public school kid.
Did you even read the posts? In this scenario, the kid is already at the Private School, not "going to a private in the future." If he doesn't make the Varsity he can play JV for the Private. How is that sabotaging the kid? No, I see nothing wrong with that.

The Exiled One
Posts: 1763
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:34 am

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by The Exiled One » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:11 am

I personally don't believe that associations should be treated as the farm teams for the high schools. Therefore, I disagree with Stillwater's proposal in principle, not just in practice. Our association feeds two public high schools and a number of private schools. Several of our association's most notable alumni played for private high schools, and we're just as proud of them as we are of the ones who played for our public schools.

I think there are benefits to the kids, the associations, and even to the high schools by drawing these boundaries. I recognize that not everybody feels the same way I do.

Section 8 guy
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Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by Section 8 guy » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:20 am

I know you you know this Exiled but just commenting for discussions sake.....The Association/High School tie issue that you describe also has a very different dynamic depending on the specifics of your community as well......metro/outstate, how many private options, 2 or more high schools within your community/Association....etc.

Some places it’s almost a conflict of interest for them to be connected......other places it only makes sense.

SCBlueLiner
Posts: 639
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:11 pm

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by SCBlueLiner » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:23 am

Jeffy95 wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:49 am
SCBlueLiner wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:35 am
Jeffy95 wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:01 am


Yes, so under this rule you would basically have to remove them from the top team and replace them, which would be pretty weird for all involved. It's not necessary.

The kid would already attend the Private if he has the option to try out for them, so just don't take them on the top team in the first place. If you know they aren't playing High School for you, let them go through the tryout but put them on the 2nd team and develop your own kids. There's nothing wrong with that. No reason to put anything in writing though, that's just asking for trouble.....
Really? These are still kids we are talking about. So it's okay to sabotage a kid's development by placing them on a lessor team because the kid is going to go to a private school in the future. You see nothing wrong with that?

Along that line of thinking, where the youth hockey association exists to serve as a feeder to the local public school, then it should be okay to allow the private schools to start their own youth hockey organizations. A school like Hill-Murray could have all the hockey playing kids that go to parochial schools in St. Paul or other Catholic school feeders to play for their Hill-Murray Youth Hockey Association. Because the local youth hockey association isn't looking out for the bests interests of all its members, only the ones who are going to the public school.

With that attitude, I wonder how many squirts or pee wees get demoted to lessor teams along the way by their association because they are "private school families" or at least not given the benefit of the doubt in tryouts when compared to a public school kid.
Did you even read the posts? In this scenario, the kid is already at the Private School, not "going to a private in the future." If he doesn't make the Varsity he can play JV for the Private. How is that sabotaging the kid? No, I see nothing wrong with that.
If the kid is Bantam aged and is in the local hockey association he should be placed on whatever level of team is appropriate based on his ability. Period. It does not matter what school he attends, public, private, home school, it is irrelevant. You even saying you have no problem placing him down a level because "develop your own kids" shows your bias in the team placement process. If you have no problem with it I am sure there are many others at the association level that have the same view. In fact, Stillwater wants to put it in their bylaws, so I'd say it is very prevalent. I wonder how much that bias permeates the association all the way down to the squirt levels and influences judgement and placement for players. I wonder how many kid's hockey development has been affected by bias over the years because their parents send them to a private school and everybody knows that is where the kids will end up because his going to a private school in the present, not the future.

OldManRiver
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:31 pm

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by OldManRiver » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:27 am

This is an interesting concept and discussion because it calls into question the reasons for playing youth sports. If you feel that kids play youth sports to have fun, learn how to deal with success and failure, and develop skills along the way, you probably think this rule is overly harsh. If you feel that youth sports are there to develop top end talent with an end result of a spot on a competitive high school team you probably think this rule is fair because someone going to a private school is taking the spot and development opportunity of someone who will end up at the public school.

Our Association has long been a feeder for the programs around us, both private and public, and we are small enough that we feel the impact of our top players leaving to either have more success at a different high school. That being said, we probably wouldn't be able to field competitive teams at the youth level if we were to institute a rule like this.

Very interesting topic and viewpoints.

SCBlueLiner
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Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by SCBlueLiner » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:32 am

My issue is the kids caught up in the middle of these association politics simply because they go to school someplace different (often times it is the parent's choice in where they go to school too, beyond the kid's control).

The Exiled One
Posts: 1763
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:34 am

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by The Exiled One » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:34 am

Section 8 guy wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:20 am
I know you you know this Exiled but just commenting for discussions sake.....The Association/High School tie issue that you describe also has a very different dynamic depending on the specifics of your community as well......metro/outstate, how many private options, 2 or more high schools within your community/Association....etc.

Some places it’s almost a conflict of interest for them to be connected......other places it only makes sense.
All true, but even in Stillwater's case, there are disadvantages to ostracizing private school kids. For example, the parents of these kids are less likely to volunteer or coach. They're also less likely to donate or fund raise, and they're the folks who're more likely to have the means to do so. The notable alumni who went private are less likely to give back to the association in time and resources.

From a performance standpoint, you're potentially taking kids from your top team who could make the difference between going to state or not. That's not good for any of the kids, public or private.

Again, I'm just not a protectionist by nature. I recognize that some people are. So be it.

Yoopskater
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:10 am

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by Yoopskater » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:36 am

Associations should be wholly independent from high schools. The exception may be if the school owns and runs the rink but not sure if that situation exists.

Jeffy95
Posts: 891
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:45 am

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by Jeffy95 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:40 am

SCBlueLiner wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:23 am
Jeffy95 wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:49 am
SCBlueLiner wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:35 am


Really? These are still kids we are talking about. So it's okay to sabotage a kid's development by placing them on a lessor team because the kid is going to go to a private school in the future. You see nothing wrong with that?

Along that line of thinking, where the youth hockey association exists to serve as a feeder to the local public school, then it should be okay to allow the private schools to start their own youth hockey organizations. A school like Hill-Murray could have all the hockey playing kids that go to parochial schools in St. Paul or other Catholic school feeders to play for their Hill-Murray Youth Hockey Association. Because the local youth hockey association isn't looking out for the bests interests of all its members, only the ones who are going to the public school.

With that attitude, I wonder how many squirts or pee wees get demoted to lessor teams along the way by their association because they are "private school families" or at least not given the benefit of the doubt in tryouts when compared to a public school kid.
Did you even read the posts? In this scenario, the kid is already at the Private School, not "going to a private in the future." If he doesn't make the Varsity he can play JV for the Private. How is that sabotaging the kid? No, I see nothing wrong with that.
If the kid is Bantam aged and is in the local hockey association he should be placed on whatever level of team is appropriate based on his ability. Period. It does not matter what school he attends, public, private, home school, it is irrelevant. You even saying you have no problem placing him down a level because "develop your own kids" shows your bias in the team placement process. If you have no problem with it I am sure there are many others at the association level that have the same view. In fact, Stillwater wants to put it in their bylaws, so I'd say it is very prevalent. I wonder how much that bias permeates the association all the way down to the squirt levels and influences judgement and placement for players. I wonder how many kid's hockey development has been affected by bias over the years because their parents send them to a private school and everybody knows that is where the kids will end up because his going to a private school in the present, not the future.
I think Exiled and Section 8 make good points. Maybe it's a little more complicated in the overall picture. I am strictly looking at it from a Single Association feeding a Single Public High School scenario and just 9th Graders. If you're a 9th Grader attending a Private School then that's where you're going to play High School Hockey. If given the choice between developing a kid who will play the next four years for your Program or a kid who has already jumped ship to a Private School Program I know which way I'm leaning. Either way, a kid ends up on a "lesser" team. It's just a matter of which kid.

It's all part of the decision for a family. If you're a 9th Grader going to a Private to play on a better Hockey team, then join them and play JV or Varsity. If you're going there for Education reasons, then what does it matter what team you're on? If you want it all? Well, that's not always how life works. You have to account for everything when making these decisions.

Sparlimb
Posts: 1781
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2002 7:11 am

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by Sparlimb » Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:14 pm

Jeffy95 wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:40 am
SCBlueLiner wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:23 am
Jeffy95 wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:49 am


Did you even read the posts? In this scenario, the kid is already at the Private School, not "going to a private in the future." If he doesn't make the Varsity he can play JV for the Private. How is that sabotaging the kid? No, I see nothing wrong with that.
If the kid is Bantam aged and is in the local hockey association he should be placed on whatever level of team is appropriate based on his ability. Period. It does not matter what school he attends, public, private, home school, it is irrelevant. You even saying you have no problem placing him down a level because "develop your own kids" shows your bias in the team placement process. If you have no problem with it I am sure there are many others at the association level that have the same view. In fact, Stillwater wants to put it in their bylaws, so I'd say it is very prevalent. I wonder how much that bias permeates the association all the way down to the squirt levels and influences judgement and placement for players. I wonder how many kid's hockey development has been affected by bias over the years because their parents send them to a private school and everybody knows that is where the kids will end up because his going to a private school in the present, not the future.
I think Exiled and Section 8 make good points. Maybe it's a little more complicated in the overall picture. I am strictly looking at it from a Single Association feeding a Single Public High School scenario and just 9th Graders. If you're a 9th Grader attending a Private School then that's where you're going to play High School Hockey. If given the choice between developing a kid who will play the next four years for your Program or a kid who has already jumped ship to a Private School Program I know which way I'm leaning. Either way, a kid ends up on a "lesser" team. It's just a matter of which kid.

It's all part of the decision for a family. If you're a 9th Grader going to a Private to play on a better Hockey team, then join them and play JV or Varsity. If you're going there for Education reasons, then what does it matter what team you're on? If you want it all? Well, that's not always how life works. You have to account for everything when making these decisions.
There's the other side of the equation. Do the top end public school kids that also would be on that "A" Team benefit more from playing with "B" squad public school kids or other "A" level talented kids who might go to a different school later? Sometimes you need to play with the best to up your game to that level. Stillwater has had a bug up its backside for the last 20 years about this and it isn't going to change anytime soon.

goldy313
Posts: 3550
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2002 11:56 am

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by goldy313 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:16 pm

My association had a rule that said if you try out and make an A or B team then leave to go tryout for a high school team you could not come back and play on the A or B team, you had to go to the C team.

I don’t think it had any practical effect as tryouts were effectively done in the summer anyhow. Some kids just got started on their hockey season a little early.

Puck8
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:31 am

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by Puck8 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:24 pm

SCBlueLiner wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:35 am
Jeffy95 wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:01 am
InThePipes wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:32 am


Aren't HS tryouts like a month and a half after the youth season begins?
Yes, so under this rule you would basically have to remove them from the top team and replace them, which would be pretty weird for all involved. It's not necessary.

The kid would already attend the Private if he has the option to try out for them, so just don't take them on the top team in the first place. If you know they aren't playing High School for you, let them go through the tryout but put them on the 2nd team and develop your own kids. There's nothing wrong with that. No reason to put anything in writing though, that's just asking for trouble.....
Really? These are still kids we are talking about. So it's okay to sabotage a kid's development by placing them on a lessor team because the kid is going to go to a private school in the future. You see nothing wrong with that?

Along that line of thinking, where the youth hockey association exists to serve as a feeder to the local public school, then it should be okay to allow the private schools to start their own youth hockey organizations. A school like Hill-Murray could have all the hockey playing kids that go to parochial schools in St. Paul or other Catholic school feeders to play for their Hill-Murray Youth Hockey Association. Because the local youth hockey association isn't looking out for the bests interests of all its members, only the ones who are going to the public school.

With that attitude, I wonder how many squirts or pee wees get demoted to lessor teams along the way by their association because they are "private school families" or at least not given the benefit of the doubt in tryouts when compared to a public school kid.
BlueLiner nails it. Youth programs should not be viewed as exclusive minor league teams to feed High School. But if they are, then there should be no issue with the incorporation of a private school youth hockey association. We know the bias already exists, but to put it in writing...it says more than they probably bargained for.

tourneytickssince59
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:00 pm

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by tourneytickssince59 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:03 pm

Current mission statement for the association
The objectives of the association are:
a. To promote and develop an inclusive, safe and fun hockey environment for all girls and boys who reside in the School District 834.
b. To create a respected hockey association that focuses on development of good sportsmanship, character, teamwork and individual achievement in hockey.

The Exiled One
Posts: 1763
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:34 am

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by The Exiled One » Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:27 pm

tourneytickssince59 wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:03 pm
Current mission statement for the association
The objectives of the association are:
a. To promote and develop an inclusive, safe and fun hockey environment for all girls and boys who reside in the School District 834.
b. To create a respected hockey association that focuses on development of good sportsmanship, character, teamwork and individual achievement in hockey.
whips out red pen

a. To promote and develop an inclusive, safe and fun hockey environment for all girls and boys who attend school in the School District 834.

All better!

HSPuckFan96
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:09 pm

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by HSPuckFan96 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:30 pm

Are there many true bantams that try out for a high school spot (varsity or JV) and get turned down and return to the bantam teams? The situations I remember, the HS coaches knew which couple of kids could handle the jump, they were invited to try out and played JV or varsity.

As others have mentioned, the role of the youth associations is to develop kids and provide the opportunity to play. On the other side, we're all crazy if we don't think there is some tie to the varsity programs (especially if there are not multiple schools coming out of the same association). It does make me wonder why some of these bigger school districts do not have more than one association, based on geography of the players (or if an association had teams that played under the different school's name).

Jeffy95
Posts: 891
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:45 am

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by Jeffy95 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:36 pm

Puck8 wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:24 pm
SCBlueLiner wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:35 am
Jeffy95 wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:01 am


Yes, so under this rule you would basically have to remove them from the top team and replace them, which would be pretty weird for all involved. It's not necessary.

The kid would already attend the Private if he has the option to try out for them, so just don't take them on the top team in the first place. If you know they aren't playing High School for you, let them go through the tryout but put them on the 2nd team and develop your own kids. There's nothing wrong with that. No reason to put anything in writing though, that's just asking for trouble.....
Really? These are still kids we are talking about. So it's okay to sabotage a kid's development by placing them on a lessor team because the kid is going to go to a private school in the future. You see nothing wrong with that?

Along that line of thinking, where the youth hockey association exists to serve as a feeder to the local public school, then it should be okay to allow the private schools to start their own youth hockey organizations. A school like Hill-Murray could have all the hockey playing kids that go to parochial schools in St. Paul or other Catholic school feeders to play for their Hill-Murray Youth Hockey Association. Because the local youth hockey association isn't looking out for the bests interests of all its members, only the ones who are going to the public school.

With that attitude, I wonder how many squirts or pee wees get demoted to lessor teams along the way by their association because they are "private school families" or at least not given the benefit of the doubt in tryouts when compared to a public school kid.
BlueLiner nails it. Youth programs should not be viewed as exclusive minor league teams to feed High School. But if they are, then there should be no issue with the incorporation of a private school youth hockey association. We know the bias already exists, but to put it in writing...it says more than they probably bargained for.
We can say that all we want, but that is not reality in Minnesota. MN Hockey is set up almost entirely based on High School Hockey. We're the only Youth Association in the Country that uses Age Guidelines that align with School Grades. You don't have to play where you live, you can open-enroll and play for another School District in youth. And MN Hockey just changed their rules recently to allow 9th graders to open-enroll and play on top Bantam teams because that's the High School rule for open-enrollment. It's all set up based on High School Hockey.
Last edited by Jeffy95 on Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

yesiplayedhockey
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:33 am

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by yesiplayedhockey » Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:40 pm

Back to the original post

Typically Bantam tryouts are a month ahead of High School ones so isn't this kind of a moot point? or is the originator of the post thinking after a kid makes a the Stillwater Bantam AA team and goes and tries out for Hill Murray varsity team and doesn't make it should he still have his Bantam AA jersey?

I see this rarely if ever happening mainly because the private school coach has already all but "promised" out all their jerseys months ago...they know exactly who will be on the team before the season starts. So the kid may be wasting his time and trying out for a jersey that doesn't exists... Most parents understand this going into it...At least I hope they do.....And if they are don't....and he doesn't make varsity... just play JV...It's still good hockey with practices 3-4 days a week

The real question maybe this. Lets say a kid goes to Hill Murray as a 9th grader but still wants to play Bantams with his "buddies" at Stillwater....should he be excluded from the top Stillwater Bantam team just because they know the following year he won't be playing for Stillwater? Then in that case absolutely not...The association should welcome that kid to the top team and let next year take care of itself
Last edited by yesiplayedhockey on Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tourneytickssince59
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:00 pm

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by tourneytickssince59 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:54 pm

My understanding of the question to D2 is, if a AA Bantam tries out for a non-association HS, they get bumped down a level and someone, that's true to the association ( #-o , gets moved up. Stillwater BAA had 2 kids make another HS's JV team this year. 2 bantam A were pulled up to fill the spots. (ironically, 1 goes to a private school). I believe this potential by-law change was brought forth in Nov/Dec by a parent whose kid did not get chosen to move up to BAA. To think the board is considering this is astonishing.

The Exiled One
Posts: 1763
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:34 am

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by The Exiled One » Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:23 pm

yesiplayedhockey wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:40 pm
mute point
*moot

HockeyFan1969
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:03 am

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by HockeyFan1969 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:47 pm

yesiplayedhockey wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:40 pm
The real question maybe this. Lets say a kid goes to Hill Murray as a 9th grader but still wants to play Bantams with his "buddies" at Stillwater....should he be excluded from the top Stillwater Bantam team just because they know the following year he won't be playing for Stillwater? Then in that case absolutely not...The association should welcome that kid to the top team and let next year take care of itself
This is really the operative part and I agree with you 100%. While there is some synergy between MNHockey and HS hockey in terms of age of play etc... it doesn't carry over. HS programs are not part of USAH first of all. So there is a natural firewall between HS and youth organizationally. Further, while the the associations used school district attendance area to define their boundaries, there is no official affiliation with the high schools. I know we are hockey people here, but no school district wants to get into a legal tie with youth hockey or its governing entities. in our association, we had people who wanted us to either officially or unofficially try to place private school kids on second tier and below teams only (starting at SQ/U10). We flat told them no, we will place every player where they score in tryouts. Every kid in the attendance area is one of ours and deserved a fair shake regardless of where their parents sent them to school. Kids need to come first. Especially when you throw in waiver rules that keep players in the association of home attendance. Remember hockey associations are 503c companies with missions and legal requirements (and in well managed ones cash reserves at some level). IMHO, going down the road to potential discrimination isn't a wise choice for any hockey association board or executive. All youth hockey associations get their insurance and legal support through their affiliate agreements with MNH/USAH and I would guess they would be against this. The wording of this inquiry suggests initial caution in that it only addresses kids trying out for HS teams which happens well after youth teams are formed. My guess is that this proposal will die a quiet death. Also, too many other possibilities that can open up if it passes (e.g. only players who participate in the HS coaches STP program can play A/AA, etc...). All that said, I've been wrong before and no one has ever gone broke overestimating the crazy of hockey parents.

tourneytickssince59
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:00 pm

Re: Association not allowing privates on top teams

Post by tourneytickssince59 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:01 pm

HockeyFan1969 wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:47 pm
yesiplayedhockey wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:40 pm
The real question maybe this. Lets say a kid goes to Hill Murray as a 9th grader but still wants to play Bantams with his "buddies" at Stillwater....should he be excluded from the top Stillwater Bantam team just because they know the following year he won't be playing for Stillwater? Then in that case absolutely not...The association should welcome that kid to the top team and let next year take care of itself
This is really the operative part and I agree with you 100%. While there is some synergy between MNHockey and HS hockey in terms of age of play etc... it doesn't carry over. HS programs are not part of USAH first of all. So there is a natural firewall between HS and youth organizationally. Further, while the the associations used school district attendance area to define their boundaries, there is no official affiliation with the high schools. I know we are hockey people here, but no school district wants to get into a legal tie with youth hockey or its governing entities. As a former metro association President, I can tell you I had people who wanted us to either officially or unofficially try to place private school kids on second tier and below teams only (starting at SQ/U10). We flat told them no, we will place every player where they score in tryouts. Every kid in the attendance area is one of ours and deserved a fair shake regardless of where their parents sent them to school. Kids need to come first. Especially when you throw in waiver rules that keep players in the association of home attendance. Remember hockey associations are 503c companies with missions and legal requirements (and in well managed ones cash reserves at some level). IMHO, going down the road to potential discrimination isn't a wise choice for any hockey association board or executive. All youth hockey associations get their insurance and legal support through their affiliate agreements with MNH/USAH. The wording of this inquiry suggests initial caution in that it only addresses kids trying out for HS teams which happens well after youth teams are formed. My guess is that this proposal will die a quiet death. Also, too many other possibilities that can open up if it passes (e.g. only players who participate in the HS coaches STP program can play A/AA, etc...). All that said, I've been wrong before and no one has ever gone broke overestimating the crazy of hockey parents.
It will be interesting as to how this plays out. Amazed that the board has been addressing this for the last few months. The anti-private school venom is Stillwater is an amazing thing, from the parents on down to the kids, mites on up.

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