Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

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Odds of a season happening

Yes 100%
37
42%
50-50
34
39%
probably not
14
16%
no way
3
3%
 
Total votes: 88

Eagles93
Posts: 483
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 5:04 pm

Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by Eagles93 » Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:42 pm

InThePipes wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:18 pm
Ding, ding, ding....there will be people/organizations who are gonna capitalize and make a lot of $ if they shut MNHS hockey down.
I agree there are organizations that would want to do this. But I would be willing to bet that if there is no MSHSL hockey season this year, similarly, arenas will not be open this winter by state mandate.

jg2112
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by jg2112 » Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:23 pm

One of the unintended results of college football eliminating non-conference games might be the shuttering of numerous athletics departments at smaller schools. Bowling Green loses $2.2 million because of these cancellations - $1.2 million from Ohio State, and $1 million from Illinois. How does a school like that balance the budget for its 17 varsity sports? I don't like the answer.

Everything IS terrible. How come we couldn't shelter in place, establish government assistance to support business and hospital workers, and test / trace / isolate? This has turned into an unmitigated disaster no matter which way one looks at it and it's getting WORSE!

InThePipes
Posts: 1006
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:26 pm

Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by InThePipes » Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:40 pm

Eagles93 wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:42 pm
InThePipes wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:18 pm
Ding, ding, ding....there will be people/organizations who are gonna capitalize and make a lot of $ if they shut MNHS hockey down.
I agree there are organizations that would want to do this. But I would be willing to bet that if there is no MSHSL hockey season this year, similarly, arenas will not be open this winter by state mandate.
Right, but the states adjacent to MN will reap the benefits, just as they are currently (Hudson, Fargo, Sioux Falls, Des Moines, etc.)

TTpuckster
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Location: State of Hockey

Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by TTpuckster » Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:14 pm

InThePipes wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:40 pm
Eagles93 wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:42 pm
InThePipes wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:18 pm
Ding, ding, ding....there will be people/organizations who are gonna capitalize and make a lot of $ if they shut MNHS hockey down.
I agree there are organizations that would want to do this. But I would be willing to bet that if there is no MSHSL hockey season this year, similarly, arenas will not be open this winter by state mandate.
Right, but the states adjacent to MN will reap the benefits, just as they are currently (Hudson, Fargo, Sioux Falls, Des Moines, etc.)
At the moment.
What is a Green Wave anyway?

grindiangrad-80
Posts: 2548
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:00 pm

Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by grindiangrad-80 » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:13 pm

Ok but you thinking Covid is a sham how does that apply to the topic?

For you class a guy-

I figured since you didn’t ask Hunter guy what washing your hands after potty and covering your mouth while sneezing had to do with the topic it was open game.

ClassAGuy
Posts: 2564
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:51 pm

Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by ClassAGuy » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:58 pm

grindiangrad-80 wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:13 pm
Ok but you thinking Covid is a sham how does that apply to the topic?

For you class a guy-

I figured since you didn’t ask Hunter guy what washing your hands after potty and covering your mouth while sneezing had to do with the topic it was open game.
Because the reason we are in this boat of no school and no sports is because of covid... You saying its a sham more power to you if that is how you want to live your life .... But that is not gonna help or get season this winter just denying it.

At least washing your hands and covering your face has always been common protocol for stopping the spread of viruses. Unless all sickness is a sham too.

I want to have a hockey season and we are gonna have to do some adjustments for that to happen.

I just didn't see how denying it all was helping towards the topic above

goldy313
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by goldy313 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:10 am

Stang......the problem isn’t FAU, it is Minneapolis, Columbus, Chicago, Madison, etc. The Big Ten can not isolate their players from their community. Sure Minnesota can test their players, for the payday FAU will get I am sure they would as well. I could see the Big Ten saying they would only play games against power 5 conference teams or even state universities. Canceling games against Iowa State, BYU, Washington, Norte Dame, etc makes no sense when conference travel is from Lincoln, Nebraska to New Jersey. Honestly, I think the Big Ten is more concerned their champion will lose to BYU, Washington, Iowa State, Miami or Norte Dame and not be in the final 4. By going to a conference only schedule they are guaranteed a team in the final 4. That is the bottom line as I doubt most bowl games will happen.

Travel isn’t the issue, it is the season being suspended and not being able to have a team in final 4. It is money. Period. End of story.

As for high school football, 7 states have delayed the start of the season; Tennessee, Vermont, West Virginia, Washington, Arizona, New Jersey (October 2nd), and New Mexico (March). On the positive side Nebraska is playing their All-Star senior football game this week.

In Minnesota we are supposed to get some direction this week.

If you are not Hill-Murray, Grand Rapids, Warroad, or about 5 other schools football runs your athletic budget, that is why this matters. Even the MSHSL makes more money from football than hockey.

Wise Old Man
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by Wise Old Man » Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:51 am

grindiangrad-80 wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:14 am
.0004% of the Us population has passed away from Covid. (Average age around 82.)

That means 99.9996% of the population hasn’t.

They shut the economy down and put 30,000,000 people on unemployment.

When all is said and done I wonder what the death toll will be from suicides because of financial hardships- deaths from colon and breast cancer because of not being allowed to be screened. I know quite a few people in healthcare myself. Not only did they not see huge numbers of Covid patients, many of their workers were furloughed because of a serious drop in any patients.

I’m not going to comment on this anymore. All I can say is that I believe this is the biggest sham I have ever seen pulled on the people of this country.

And we let it happen.

grindian...obviously, those of us that actually believe the pandemic is real, how badly it's affecting our country, and the fact that literally EVERY public health person in this country is saying it's the worst health crisis we've faced since the 1918 pandemic, are not going to convince you otherwise. Fair enough. It's obviously your choice to think this is a "sham" or a "hoax". Still, allow me to respond to your post with some other important numbers. Then I'm going to ask you a question or two that I hope you will respond to.

First, you accurately point out that only 4% of those who are infected with Covid are currently dying. As a quick aside, the flu mortality rate is 0.1%. Now, not saying you believe this BUT, let's be honest, one of the first talking points from the Right in response to the initial reporting on Covid was that it wasn't any worse than the flu. Now, do I think the final mortality rate will be 4%? No, I do not. However, it will likely be between 1.5 and 2.5%. That's obviously WAY WORSE than the flu. Thus, I think we can say that myth has been busted. :shock:

Now, let's play this out a little. Michael Olsterholm of the U of Minn., one of the top infectious disease specialists in the world, states that between 70 and 80% of the U.S. population -- approx. 264 million -- will contract Covid before all is said and done. 4% of that is 10,560,000 deaths. Still, there is obviously much confidence that much of that total infection number will be reached via an effective vaccine versus actual illness. Thus, reducing the overall death estimate considerably (thankfully).

Yet, every legitimate expert in epidemiology, virology, and infectious diseases states that at least 20% of all patients who contract Covid will experience significant to severe symptoms. Let's say that 10 million actually contract the virus prior to a vaccine. That's approximately 2 million people that experience severe symptoms. 4% of the 10 million will die -- approx. 400,000 people. With the possibility that a large number of the remaining 1,600,000 people experiencing significant symptoms, WILL experience some type of permanent systemic damage, requiring life long medical expenses. That's one heck of a lot of long term health care costs that would be almost completely preventable. Yet, here you are reciting the whole..."but the cure is probably going to be almost, if not as bad, as the illness". I'm sorry but, as much of an increase as some of those other issues/challenges are seeing, I find it very difficult to believe that there will be that much (2 million significant illnesses with 400,000 deaths ) of a difference.

Question #1.... Please name at least 5 legitimate experts with minimum of 10 years experience in epidemiology, virology, or infectious diseases, that is saying this is a "sham" or "hoax" or is significantly downplaying the virus in a public fashion.

Question #2.... What is the short, medium, or long term benefit to the local, state, and federal health care experts/leaders if they were actually intentionally trying say the virus was far worse than it actually is? What do they stand to gain from discussing or believing that viewpoint? Please, be specific.

grindiangrad-80
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by grindiangrad-80 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:16 am

I’m not saying Covid isn’t real. I’m saying that .0004% of the population has died from it( average age in the 80’s) That leaves 99.9996% of the population that hasn’t.

My opinion is that it didn’t warrant putting 30 million people out of work.

If you want to live your life thinking otherwise that is up to you. It is a free country.

I admit that I know little about the medical field.

I do understand basic math though. And to me it doesn’t add up.

So, to get on topic- I believe we should have a hockey season.

If the protesters didn’t create a spike in cases I have a hard time believing hockey practice is going to end the world.

As I said before, you folks are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.

Stang5280
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by Stang5280 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:17 pm

Carleton announced Friday that its athletic programs will not be competing during their fall term (through November 24). Winter sports teams will also not compete during fall term, and the decision remains open as to whether those teams can compete during winter break or starting at winter term return (January 3).

We’ll see if this forces the rest of the MIAC to follow suit, but it certainly isn’t a good omen, particularly for neighboring St. Olaf.

Also, it looks like there will be an announcement tomorrow that all JuCo football nationwide will be moved to the spring.

Section 8 guy
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by Section 8 guy » Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:54 pm

Stang5280 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:17 pm
Also, it looks like there will be an announcement tomorrow that all JuCo football nationwide will be moved to the spring.
Must be about the money.

Wise Old Man
Posts: 340
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by Wise Old Man » Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:47 am

OK…. lot’s of things to respond to. Here goes nothing…

First, I want to address the following points “Goldy” made last Friday:

“FWIW.....
1) When did education become less essential than liquor, candy, New home construction, etc? Really in my mind food, shelter, utilities, healthcare and education are the most essential things.
2) when did education become about the teachers and not about the kids? What if healthcare worked this way? Doctors and nurses quit coming to work out of fear......
3) given the exponential spread of this virus the protests were extremely influential in the spread, opening bars was just as bad. Clearly opening colleges will not be good.”

Goldy…to #1 – I agree, education should be as, or more essential, than all of the items you listed that it should be above. However, it seems as though your point in stating what you did, is that you believe schools should be open, at least to some degree. IF, emphasis on IF, we were at the same type of point of control of spread that South Korea, Taiwan, and Japan are at, then I could see trying to go back to school in a “normal attendance” manner. Unfortunately, we’re obviously nowhere close to that nationally. And, now the Minnesota numbers are also starting to climb. And, just as we’re going into the final stretch toward September.

Regarding #2 – Education has always been very much about the teachers. I know you realize the importance of great teachers. I’m also sure you understand that at least 1/3 of our teachers are over 50 years old. Many with underlying health issues that put them at greater risk of significant symptoms. I’m also really struggling with your comparison of healthcare workers to teachers as it relates to the idea that a number of teachers might opt out of working if they have to be in a classroom, even if it’s the hybrid model. You do realize that, especially now, healthcare workers dealing with Covid patients have access to full PPE to protect themselves and, that teachers obviously would not? They’ll be lucky to have a surgical mask. No offense Goldy but, talk about an apples to hockey pucks analogy….wow.

#3 – Where are you getting your information that the protests specifically were “extremely influential in the spread”? That they were just as bad as opening up the bars? Everything I’ve read is stating just the opposites of the degree of spread being attributed to the protests – that there doesn’t seem to be any evidence that the protests have resulted in any type of significant spread. The fact that they were outside and, the vast majority were wearing masks are the likely reasons why the protests didn’t cause significant increases in spread.


To “blueline”… you still haven’t answered the question of who are “they” and why is it “better” for “them”?, that I and “Eagles” posed to you last Tuesday in response to the statement you made that afternoon in your post where you stated… “Unfortunately "they" don't want us to understand that because it is better for "them" if we are all afraid.”

It’s been a week now “blueline” and you still haven’t answered. It can’t be that hard to explain.

To…“InThePipes”…. Yes, if the MSHSL and/or Minnesota Hockey announce they won’t have a normal season of games with travel, other youth sports organizations will try to attract kids to their programs. However, there won’t be that many kids at 10th grade or below leaving. Here’s why… there are only a few legitimate independent USA Hockey sanctioned “in season” AAA hockey programs in the Midwest – I believe there are programs in Green Bay and Madison in Wisconsin, Des Moines in Iowa, Sioux Falls in South Dakota, as well as one in Omaha, NE. I don’t believe there are any in season “AAA” teams in North Dakota. And, all of the Minnesota based programs are all under the Minnesota Hockey umbrella and will not play if Minnesota Hockey puts limits on playing games or running any programming at all, with the MH decision likely being made for them if our governor mandates those activities won’t happen. The vast majority of other programs in those other states are off-season “AAA” programs.

Plus, if the virus continues to infect large areas of the country in the “out of control” manner it currently is, there’s a very good chance that USA Hockey will put a halt on activity again once we get to September. As a related note, it’s no shock that the USHL is saying they intend to play a normal season. They have always seen themselves as the best development league in the U.S. (they absolutely are), both for kids who’ve graduated from high school and, for those still in high school. So, it obviously makes sense for them to publicly state they’re having a “normal” season, especially financially, as in the very least it will probably motivate a lot more Minnesota high school players than usual to sign up for more than one tryout camp.

There is a slightly better chance that even if youth and high school sports are cancelled/postponed until later in the season (say Jan. 1 of 2021), that the USHL might try to play (large emphasis on TRY). However, IF all of those other entities aren’t playing, I highly doubt any of the Junior leagues will play either.

Now, if they do play, there will certainly be a significant attempt by this coming season’s top high school seniors and even juniors, as well as the very best sophomores and freshmen, to go and play in the USHL and/or NAHL. There might even be a number of “average” players that try to play Tier III junior or in the USPHL if they’re operating.

However, knowing the general financial health of a number of teams at those levels, combined with the fact that all of those leagues/teams missed out on last season’s playoff monies along with the fact that the virus has had such an obvious negative financial impact on businesses throughout North America, it is going to be extremely challenging for those teams to make their normal monies from ad sales and such. Not to mention the additional financial issues that will be increased even if they have a season as there’s a good chance that spectators will either be very limited, or even allowed at all. Still, even just having a greater than normal number of the best seniors and juniors leaving could have a short to medium impact on high school hockey both next year or the year after.

“Goldy”… from your post on Sat. night/Sun. morning where at the end you stated, “If you are not Hill-Murray, Grand Rapids, Warroad, or about 5 other schools football runs your athletic budget, that is why this matters. Even the MSHSL makes more money from football than hockey.”

Can you please link to where you saw that the MSHSL makes more money on football than hockey? Because I’ve had discussions with a number of MSHSL officials about the organization’s finances, to include Craig Perry, and to a person they have all said that the Boys’ State Hockey Tournament is THE cash cow for the organization and has been for decades.

Again, they lost over $450,000 dollars last year and that was WITH playing the Boy’s Hockey Tournament.
Next “Goldy”… what do you mean by , “if you’re not Hill Murray, Grand Rapids, Warroad, or about 5 other schools, football runs your athletic budget”? Are you saying that football is the most expensive sport to play and thus is the one that negatively affects a school’s budget the most? Or, are you actually trying to say that, outside of the schools you named and apparently about 5 others, high school football makes more money than any other sport and, without football playing, it will affect those school’s budgets in a similar – although far smaller scale – than how Div. I football impacts the other sports for those colleges? Because, if you are making that argument, I’m sorry but you are significantly misinformed. Are there a few big-name metro schools who still have 60 plus kids playing JV and Varsity football that, due to those extremely large numbers affect those school’s budgets more than any other sport? Probably. But, it’s a very small number of schools.

Trust me, the fact that even smaller high school hockey programs have at least 30 plus kids, combined with the equipment costs and, the fact that ice time is around $200 per hour at an average of 3 hours per day (JV & Varsity) , and 3-4 days per week, it’s my understanding that at schools with hockey and football, hockey is almost always the more costly sport.

“grindiangrad”… on Friday night/Saturday morning you tried to make the point that “only” 4% of all Americans who contract Covid will die from it which means that 99.996% of all other Americans will survive. And, that those numbers didn’t justify shutting down the economy and increasing unemployment to 30 million. Along with adding a statement about all of the probable increases in deaths in other areas or, otherwise stated, the tried and true argument from the “starboard” side of the political spectrum that the, “cure will be worse than the disease”.

I responded by stating that, “Let’s say that 10 million people actually contract the virus prior to a vaccine. That’s approximately 2 million people that experience severe symptoms. 4% of the 10 million will die – approx.. 400,000 people. With the possibility that a large number of the remaining 1,600,000 people experiencing significant symptoms, and many of those WILL experience some type of permanent systemic damage – cardiovascular, raspatory, or other – that will require significant life-long medical care/expenses. The vast majority of which were preventable by states not reopening too fast or, having the vast majority of the population wearing a mask.

You then responded to my post by saying that, “I do understand basic math though. And, to me it doesn’t add up”.

“grindiangrad”… please explain in detail which numbers I presented that “don’t add up” to you. I’m genuinely interested in what it is that you don’t understand or, feel may not be accurate.

Well, I think we’re caught up for now…

nu2hockey
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by nu2hockey » Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:04 am

Just being petty,but,
4% plus 99.996% is 103.996%

grindiangrad-80
Posts: 2548
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:00 pm

Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by grindiangrad-80 » Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:49 am

I never said it killed 4% of the people who got Covid. I said it has killed .0004% of the US population. (130,000/345,000,000.)

So I do believe I understand basic math. I’m not convinced you can read though wise old man.

ClassAGuy
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by ClassAGuy » Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:33 pm

MSHSL Meeting Recap

Minnesota State High School League discussed contingency planning Monday amid growing concern that the coronavirus pandemic will curtail the fall season.

Bonnie Spohn Schmaltz, president of the league’s board of directors, said the “natural progression” is a three-pronged approach. The ultimate goal is starting the fall season as scheduled on Aug. 17, though she added, “I think we all realize it can’t be exactly like it was last fall.”

A second option includes sports with fewer competitions, shorter seasons, limited postseason and smaller team rosters.

The third, or “nuclear option” as Prior Lake activities director Russ Reetz called it during a virtual board workshop Monday, is moving some or all fall sports to the spring of 2021. Fall sports include football, volleyball, girls’ swimming and tennis, and boys’ and girls’ soccer and cross-country. Nationally and in Minnesota, some colleges are already moving in this direction.

"We know that everyone is very anxious for answers," said MSHSL executive director Erich Martens. "Our primary consideration is around providing opportunities within the scope of what is safe for all participants including students, coaches, directors, officials and anyone else who's connected to the opportunities that we are able to provide."

“If we go with distance learning, how will that affect participation?” said Martens, “If it’s distance-learning only, can we have activities?’’ Last spring all school activities were canceled when school buildings closed in favor of remote learning.

“If it’s a hybrid, does that reduce the number of practices during a week?” he said.


The overall goal for the MSHSL is to have the fall season start on Aug. 17, but many members realize it probably won't look the same as past fall seasons.

"We continue to plan for an August 17 start as is our appointed date and a week earlier for some who have a zero week for football," said MSHSL associate director Craig Perry. "But we also are daily discussing contingency plans and delayed starts. Everything from full participation to no participation."

Another idea was focused on having shorter seasons with fewer games and competitions, a smaller roster for teams and a shortened postseason. Finally, the last discussion was moving some or all fall sports into other seasons like winter and spring.

Board member Troy Stein knows firsthand the unpredictable nature of the increasingly pervasive coronavirus.

Stein, Edina’s activities director, said “20 or more” student-athletes in a recent “eight- to nine-day span” tested positive for COVID-19. Stein said the cases were “traced back to one group of males at a cabin who visited another group of friends and brought it back” to teams conducting summer workouts.

Infected athletes represented eight activities: dance team, cheerleading, football, girls’ hockey and both genders of lacrosse and soccer.

“The symptoms varied,” Stein said. “There were kids who didn’t feel anything to some that were down and out a little.”

Some activities were temporarily shut down, Stein said, adding, “our athletes better appreciate the fact that following the state guidelines when they are with their friends is important to getting back to school and competing on school teams.”

Coaches want their kids back, too. That was the prevailing sentiment league associate director Bob Madison took from the Minnesota High School Football Coaches Association when they met last week.

Football is a conundrum. The sport is a major revenue source for most school districts and among the “higher risk” sports as identified in National Federation of State High School Associations guidelines.

Player safety isn’t the only concern. About 500 football officials are registered for the approaching season, about one-third the typical amount, said Jason Nickleby, high school league coordinator of officials.

Moderate risk sports include soccer, tennis and volleyball, along with relays events in swimming. Cross-country is considered low risk so long as starts are staggered.

Stein’s ideas include a 30% reduction in the number of weeks when sports are competing. In football, that means going from 15 weeks to about 10, and cutting about five or six weeks from the basketball or hockey seasons.

Other board members urged caution. “Activities are an important privilege, not a right,” said Kris DeClerk-Thompson, assistant principal at Buffalo High School. “Is a kid’s life worth what we all want?”

The decisions being made for return to participation will hinge on return-to-school protocols. Those protocols will be announced by Gov. Walz in the later part of July.

"One of our best indicators is going to be how we are going to return to work [or school]," said MSHSL associate director Bob Madison. "We may have to think about things differently."

There are three different options that Walz and the state government are considering for return-to-school which include: distance learning, a hybrid program or a full in-person return to schools. Depending on which option is decided, the MSHSL will have a better idea of how athletics and activities will return in the upcoming school year.

Along with Walz's decision, the MSHSL board of directors also added that every city is different in Minnesota. There are particular areas in the state that have more cases than other cities and that will have to play a factor when designing the return to participation plan.

Walz is planning to announce the decision on schools the week of July 27. The MSHSL will have a board of directors workshop on Aug. 3 and the board of directors meeting on Aug. 4 to discuss the return to participation in more detail.

WestMetro
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by WestMetro » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:10 pm

Strib article about Mshsl budget woes. Note state hockey tourney contributes almost $3 mill

https://m.startribune.com/mshsl-takes-u ... 571768032/

OldManRiver
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by OldManRiver » Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:52 am

When I read comments like this I become frustrated:
Other board members urged caution. “Activities are an important privilege, not a right,” said Kris DeClerk-Thompson, assistant principal at Buffalo High School. “Is a kid’s life worth what we all want?”
Obviously, nobody is asking to put kids in a position where they can die from COVID-19. According to the Minnesota Department of Health, nobody under the age of 19 in Minnesota has died from this disease. https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases ... html#ageg1 So, it isn't a question of weighing "a kid's life" against "what we all want."

I'm sure there are a myriad of valid reasons why not holding sports right now makes the most sense - but to drop it all on a "don't play or kids will die" type of ultimatum just shows an incredible lack of knowledge about a truly complex issue.

O.K. Off of my soapbox now.

jg2112
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by jg2112 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:20 am

I think the "best worst" option for the upcoming school year would be for athletes to play games with the following requirements:

(1) temperature checks before every activity (a COVID test would be the best, but this isn't Germany);
(2) mandatory quarantine of any team subjected to COVID, then reschedule (remember Duluth East's hockey team shutting things down due to flu last winter, same idea here);
(3) no fans in the stands other than parents.

Now, this really dampens the experience but it allows kids to play. My question - can the MSHSL afford to run sports without any ticket revenue, including the basketball and hockey tournaments?

blueblood
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by blueblood » Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:26 am

OMR:

Agree with you 100%.

The fear approach that the Buffalo HS school administrator provided is not needed.
Play Like a Champion Today

goldy313
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by goldy313 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:45 pm

If the MSHSL doesn’t have sports someone else will fill in that void; the Minnesota American Legion isn’t playing baseball but now we U19 and U17 teams filling that role. If the MSHSL league doesn’t have hockey, many of those kids will go back to association hockey and we will have more Junior Gold teams.

I think in some sports, football for example, you may have schools going the Shattuck way and just not registering their team with the MSHSL and setting up a regional league.

jg2112
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by jg2112 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:41 pm

goldy313 wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:45 pm
If the MSHSL doesn’t have sports someone else will fill in that void; the Minnesota American Legion isn’t playing baseball but now we U19 and U17 teams filling that role. If the MSHSL league doesn’t have hockey, many of those kids will go back to association hockey and we will have more Junior Gold teams.

I think in some sports, football for example, you may have schools going the Shattuck way and just not registering their team with the MSHSL and setting up a regional league.
Humbly disagree. If the MSHSL isn't hosting sports, it's because there's over 250,000 dead Americans in the continuing first wave of this pandemic, combined with flu season.

In such an instance, we'll all be suffering under another lockdown and the economy will be wreckage.

Now, I don't think there's any way the MSHSL completely foregoes sports this year, so this is all jejune.

goldy313
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Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2002 11:56 am

Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by goldy313 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:03 pm

No, if the MSHSL isn’t having sports it is because Governor Walz keeps extending his peacetime emergency and won’t let schools open. I have a hard time seeing kids in Minneapolis going to school anytime soon and if they are not going then neither are the kids in Montevideo, Mora, or Mankato. No chance Walz allows one school to open while Minneapolis is closed.

grindiangrad-80
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by grindiangrad-80 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:18 am

Does it mean anything that the average person lives to 79 and the average death from Covid is 82?

Just curious.

7TIMECHAMPS
Posts: 279
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:55 am

Agreed GR. I will add that if we are going to close schools and activities we at least have to be honest with ourselves about the reasons for doing it. We are 4 months in now and there hasn’t been a single school aged kid that has died in MN. Are we closing schools for their safety and out of their best interest? Or are we asking them to make sacrifices for the elderly? My opinion is that kids are the ones bearing the brunt of the side effects of this. They’re sacrificing their education, their social lives/experiences (which is very important at those ages), and are likely the ones that actually have to deal with this monster debt that we are accumulating. Statistically speaking the bus ride to school bears a higher chance of death than Covid for most kids. So it really isn’t fair to try justify any of these decisions with statements like “we are doing this for the safety of the kids.” At least be honest about what the reasons are.

Wise Old Man
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by Wise Old Man » Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:10 pm

7TIMECHAMPS wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:55 am
Agreed GR. I will add that if we are going to close schools and activities we at least have to be honest with ourselves about the reasons for doing it. We are 4 months in now and there hasn’t been a single school aged kid that has died in MN. Are we closing schools for their safety and out of their best interest? Or are we asking them to make sacrifices for the elderly? My opinion is that kids are the ones bearing the brunt of the side effects of this. They’re sacrificing their education, their social lives/experiences (which is very important at those ages), and are likely the ones that actually have to deal with this monster debt that we are accumulating. Statistically speaking the bus ride to school bears a higher chance of death than Covid for most kids. So it really isn’t fair to try justify any of these decisions with statements like “we are doing this for the safety of the kids.” At least be honest about what the reasons are.

First, to OldManRiver... I’m sorry, so the Buffalo principle didn’t state it exactly the way YOU think she should’ve but, when you, Goldy, grindian, and 7Times, have to actually put YOUR fannies and livelihoods on the actual line from a decision-making standpoint, we’ll see how YOU react. You guys are freaking unbelievable. How about trying to walk a day in a person’s shoes before you criticize them. As she/he said, extracurriculars — as beneficial as we know they are — ARE A PRIVILEGE and NOT A RIGHT! Remember, they are sitting in rooms listening to the best medical experts in our state and, even nationally, in educating themselves in regards to making the best decisions possible.

And yes 7Times, no one under 19 has died. Thank freaking God. Maybe, just MAYBE that’s due to the way our state’s leadership has reacted to the situation. Did you ever think of that?!? And yes, one of the most significant reasons we are considering closing schools/not having activities IS to help protect the elderly/immune compromised. No one in a position of authority who has said we need to seriously consider this, has said anything differently. And, there are a significant number of younger and healthy people — in my definition that’s 18-60 — that have been infected, had significant symptoms, and in all likelihood will have lifelong disabilities/issues with various organs/systems of body function. THIS ISNT JUST ABOUT THE DEATHS...It’s amazing how when one of us brings that specific point up, none of you geniuses ever responds to it.

Next to Goldy... I can promise you that — and you can ask Elliot this as well — as someone deeply involved at the youth level, if the MSHSL doesn’t play, it’s literally a 99% chance Minnesota Hockey doesn’t either. That’s just a fact. Again, It’s really interesting that those of you that think playing or participating in any type of recreational/amateur sport or other activity is worth the lives of who knows how many people — yes, the vast majority being elderly but, a now increasing number of younger people — especially when literally everyone of those potentially thousands of deaths (yes, potentially thousands) is absolutely and completely preventable. Again I ask any of you in this camp, PLEASE provide me the ACTUAL FREAKING NUMBER of preventable/“acceptable” deaths that you believe justifies playing sports or doing activities that will very likely increase spread AND lead to more preventable deaths? C’mon, if you REALLY believe in your position, then provide the damn number. Because THAT IS the ONLY data point that matters in this discussion/debate. All of the other things that kids will miss out on — as unfortunate as they are — do NOT justify whatever activity it is if that participation leads to preventable deaths. We’re not talking about shutting things down “forever” as a large number of “got to open it up” people claim. Literally every expert in infectious disease and vaccines is saying we will like have a number of — not just one but, a number of — effective vaccines that are widely distributed by early 2021. 6-8 months doesn’t meet my or most people’s definitions of “forever”.

In a previous post, I provided an example of what happened at a two day hockey camp in Ashland. 13 confirmed infections (a mix of players and parents) plus — and this was a week ago — 11 more symptomatic waiting on results. Which, also caused to different baseball leagues in two different states to suspend play for at least a week. Just one attempt at an indoor team sports event. One attempt. Now, from a risk assessment standpoint is having this type of even with zero restrictions — no mask requirements, no limits on people in the rink (it is Wisconsin so...) the same as doing something similar, but with masks required to be worn by players and coaches in and out of the rink and, no parents allowed inside? No, completely different. But, that’s probably the maximum amount of activity we can safely do without significantly increasing the risk of spread.

And really 7Times, please tell me you’re not this freaking dense. NO, we aren’t closing schools to only protect kids. 1/3 of our teachers are over 50/have underlying health issues that make them far more susceptible to severe symptoms. Now, if you try and tell me that they should just stay home, then you can also tell me where you’re getting all of the necessary replacements. Especially when the vast majority of current subs are in their 60s. Further along the whole ridiculousness of the “are we shutting down schools to protect kids” question — no, we’re also shutting down schools to try and limit the number of elderly who live with their grandkids — you know, those who you guys even admit are at significant risk from getting sick and dying.

Locked