Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

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Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)

Odds of a season happening

Yes 100%
37
42%
50-50
34
39%
probably not
14
16%
no way
3
3%
 
Total votes: 88

Hunters1993
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:22 am

Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by Hunters1993 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:58 am

Stated by Goldy......... Clearly opening bars up coincided with massive protests to create this growth.

I am not so quick to be certain it only coincided with bars. I have a theory that once the 20-40 year olds decided that they were done with being careful. When people decided that they could play sports again. When people decided to not wear masks that is when numbers amped up.

People I read in several websites that if we all just put on a mask for the next two weeks or three weeks the infection rate would drop substantially! Two weeks people. JUST DO IT!
#KEEPTHEKIDSINTHECLASSROOM

ClassAGuy
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Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:51 pm

Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by ClassAGuy » Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:31 am

John Millea @MSHSLjohn
State officials expected to announce back-to-school protocols week of July 27, #mshsl board of directors will meet Aug. 4. As of right now, plan is for fall sports practices to begin on schedule Aug. 17. #WearAMaskMN

Iowa, Michigan, North Dakota, Nebraska etc.... Have all green-lighted Fall Sports

Looks like I got all upset over nothing, Fall Sports in MN WILL BE MOVING FORWARD.

Everyone I have been talking to says schools are back and Sports are back just waiting for the formal announcement Monday July 27th.

No worries High School Hockey is back.... REJOYCE and we can shut this thread down!

jg2112
Posts: 915
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:36 am

Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by jg2112 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:13 pm

ClassAGuy wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:31 am
John Millea @MSHSLjohn
State officials expected to announce back-to-school protocols week of July 27, #mshsl board of directors will meet Aug. 4. As of right now, plan is for fall sports practices to begin on schedule Aug. 17. #WearAMaskMN

Iowa, Michigan, North Dakota, Nebraska etc.... Have all green-lighted Fall Sports

Looks like I got all upset over nothing, Fall Sports in MN WILL BE MOVING FORWARD.

Everyone I have been talking to says schools are back and Sports are back just waiting for the formal announcement Monday July 27th.

No worries High School Hockey is back.... REJOYCE and we can shut this thread down!
HS hockey has been back for over a month, all these kids are skating again. Whether they play this winter is still open for determination.

I think games with no more than 2 spectators per player is going to be the concession for hockey to happen. Zoom hockey for the rest. COVID combined with the flu is going to make for a nasty winter.

greybeard58
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by greybeard58 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:35 pm

Sports community reading

St. Louis County attributes youth sports as the "primary source" of driving COVID-19 community spread. The rising cases in young people have coincided with the start of summer sports programs. Contact tracers have noted a link to sports participation.

Youth sports a driver of COVID-19 infections in St. Louis area
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/edu ... 18b3b.html

- - - - - - - - - -

A Kentucky football team’s workout in a weight room is connected to 36 COVID-19 cases. The governor of Kentucky says he’s worried about sports without masks and social distancing.

Kentucky football team tied to 36 coronavirus cases after workout lacked proper safety measures
https://sportsnaut.com/2020/07/kentucky ... -measures/

- - - - - - - - - -

In Northern Nevada, two prominent youth football league organizations jointly announced they're cancelling their 2020 seasons due to COVID-19 risks.

Youth sports: Pop Warner, SYFL football programs cancel fall seasons
https://www.rgj.com/story/sports/2020/0 ... 459101002/

- - - - - - - - - -

In Philadelphia, a youth sports coach tested positive for COVID-19. He coached several games during the infectious period while not always maintaining social distancing and wearing a mask. All 12 players and 3 coaches are quarantined for 14 days.

Montco Youth Sports Coach Coached Games, Went to Party While Infected With COVID-19
https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/co ... y/2468901/

- - - - - - - - - -

Youth football in Birmingham, AL is canceled for 2020. "We could not see a reasonable way that play could occur while providing the necessary safety measures to protect the many people who could potentially be impacted over a long season.”

Birmingham youth football canceled for 2020 because of pandemic
https://abc3340.com/news/local/birmingh ... f-pandemic

- - - - - - - - - -

While current hospitalization counts in Minnesota remain relatively low, “we are likely going to see increases in hospitalizations because of the ripple effect” of younger people becoming infected, Ehresmann said earlier in the week, adding that young adults “don’t live in a vacuum.”

July 17 update on COVID-19 in MN: Nothing 'off the table' as case counts climb
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/07/1 ... id19-in-mn

- - - - - - - - - -

The Edina School District says it is aware of about 20 student-athletes who tested positive for COVID-19 over the past week or so. Those athletes were in summer camps, many of which the district doesn’t sponsor.

Edina Mayor Says COVID-19 Cases Increasing Rapidly Among Youth, Urges Cautionhttps://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/07/07/edina-mayor-says-covid-19-cases-increasing-rapidly-among-youth-urges-caution/

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Last week, Edina Mayor Jim Hovland reported that the percentage of the city's coronavirus cases that were people under the age of 25 had gone from 12% to 74%. Hovland said, and MDH confirmed, that many of those cases were traced back to youth sports, house parties and cabin gatherings.

Minnesota's COVID-19 cases among youth are up 550% since May
https://www.kare11.com/article/news/hea ... b435afe834

- - - - - - - - - -

Here is what is happening, and what the rest of us need to prepare for: If as a parent you can pay the money for club sports, the seasons have a chance to continue, depending on state regulations.

If you rely on public state funded sports to play the game, the best you can hope for is a delay.

Kids, you can play sports during COVID ... if you have the money
https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/sp ... 77927.html

Also just recently it was reported that 17,000 children under age 18 tested positive for covid which was 31% of those tested

wannagototherink
Posts: 312
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by wannagototherink » Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:32 pm

I think the determining factor will be whether or not the kids are actually back in the buildings for school this year. If there is only distance learning and the kids will not be back in the classroom then there is no reason why they can't have high school sports or any after school activity. Have families sign waivers releasing the ISD/School/Coach, etc from any potential liabilities and go about the prep seasons. If they are back in the buildings, I can't see a reasonable explanation to allow extracurricular activities to continue. If they are back in the buildings it is not about the Athlete's or student's involved in activities. I think they can participate and be accountable for whatever consequences they may or may not encounter. The problem happens when the student who is not involved in extracurriculars, has Type 1 Diabetes and becomes infected by someone who brought it back from a game or meet. In that instance, the school has directly contributed to the spread of the virus to a vulnerable student who has every right to a public education as your hockey player or debate team member. That in my book puts the school at great liability. When you look at the level of quarantine professional sports league are requiring to SAFELY allow for participation, even NCAA Sports. The resources available to isolate and test are incredible for pro and college sports. The cost astronomical. I can't imagine there is a ISD in this state that can afford to test even a fraction of the times necessary to maintain a safe and healthy environment for minor, public school students. If there is one, good luck finding a second to compete against. I think it is more important to the government to get kids into the schools even if it sacrifices sports for a year. As sad as that may be. My heart goes out to the kids that could be denied a season this year. It will be a cluster for what I can only imagine will have to 16U and 18U teams put together by associations. Maybe some before and after teams will stay together but even they will struggle to find AAA showcases to get into at this point. What about ice time? Most rinks are booked to their teeth now with teams practicing and games for youth associations at all hours of the day. I suppose they will have to make due with their current high school schedules and play under USA Hockey. Also sounds like Canada won't be allowing American's in to play this year so now you have probably close to 150-200 American kids that will be taking spots on US Jr rosters, which in turn will squeeze the younger Jr kids back into Midgets. Might be tough for a Minnesota kid to find a spot on a Tier 1 roster if they wait for October to make a decision. It is a mess no doubt.
"I've never seen a dumb-bell score a goal!" ~Gretter

ClassAGuy
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Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:51 pm

Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by ClassAGuy » Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:19 pm

This topic is done,,,,

MN will have fall sports starting on Aug 17th... Every surrounding state league (EVEN MICHIGAN) is having Fall sports on time.

Walz will say Hybrid on the 27th which will give the MSHSL enough to get a plan in place to announce sports again on August 4th.

Its a done deal.

Cant wait to drop the puck in November

Hunters1993
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:22 am

Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by Hunters1993 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:27 pm

I am not nearly as sure that fall sports will happen.

Everyone put on your mask for next two weeks and watch numbers drop! Just Do It!
#KEEPTHEKIDSINTHECLASSROOM

ClassAGuy
Posts: 2564
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:51 pm

Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by ClassAGuy » Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:29 pm

Hunter its done deal.

School hybrid on the 27th and Aug 4th fall sports up and going

Debate is done.

grindiangrad-80
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by grindiangrad-80 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:40 pm

Lol. I bet knot.

goldy313
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by goldy313 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:23 pm

I follow the high school football world pretty well. Michigan’s Governor will decide the fall sports fate. I am actually surprised she hasn’t already canceled it.

Virginia canceled their fall football season.

Texas may very well go a tiered approach where the smaller divisions play as scheduled but the larger divisions are delayed as some of the largest school districts/counties (San Antonio, Laredo, and Houston areas) stopped all sports until at least Labor Day.

Kansas has delayed the start of their season, Iowa and Pennslyvania have announced their seasons will go on as planned.

These states have canceled or delayed high school football....
Arizona
Hawaii
Kansas
Mississippi
New Jersey
New York
New Mexico
South Carolina
Tennessee
Texas Parochial
Vermont
Washington
West Virginia

Individual school districts in California, Texas, Illinois, and Florida have postponed their seasons
Last edited by goldy313 on Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

goldy313
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by goldy313 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:30 pm

jg2112 wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:41 pm
goldy313 wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:45 pm
If the MSHSL doesn’t have sports someone else will fill in that void; the Minnesota American Legion isn’t playing baseball but now we U19 and U17 teams filling that role. If the MSHSL league doesn’t have hockey, many of those kids will go back to association hockey and we will have more Junior Gold teams.

I think in some sports, football for example, you may have schools going the Shattuck way and just not registering their team with the MSHSL and setting up a regional league.
Humbly disagree. If the MSHSL isn't hosting sports, it's because there's over 250,000 dead Americans in the continuing first wave of this pandemic, combined with flu season.

In such an instance, we'll all be suffering under another lockdown and the economy will be wreckage.

Now, I don't think there's any way the MSHSL completely foregoes sports this year, so this is all jejune.
I must have not made my point well enough. The MSHSL will not decide anything, Walz will. As of Friday the MSHSL is planning in fall sports as usual. What Walz decides is the decision that matters. His decision will be more politically driven. Unlike Illinois and some other states Walz has held the “One Minnesota” mantra. We are all treated the same. IMHO what the Minneapolis and St Paul teachers unions do will determine what happens state wide.

The Exiled One
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by The Exiled One » Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:41 pm

I think a case could be made to continue activities as usual even if kids aren’t in the classroom.

Think about it: No matter how you try to mitigate the spread in schools, the kids are still in the same building breathing the same air and touching the same doorknobs. If there’s an outbreak in a school, every kid in the school is exposed. However, with sports or other activities, the outbreaks are isolated to just those groups. Spread could conceivably be contained and easily traced.

My kid is doing Summer Training with his HS now as well as a rec league. He’s certainly more at risk now than he would be in the fall (with the possible exception of in person schooling).

Just my thoughts. I hope they don’t cancel hockey, even if they potentially have to do remote learning.

goldy313
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by goldy313 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:50 pm

Hunters.... I think we agree on this. The largest demographic protesting Is also the largest demographic at overcrowded bars.

FWIW due to social distance requirements one of our therapists was assigned to record who was wearing masks, who was wearing them properly, and who wasn’t wearing them. Over a two week span nearly 50% (48?) of the people who wore masks were not wearing them properly.....most likely below the nose but also taking them down to talk or wearing the ones with valves. We are falling horribly short on explaining what the purpose of mask is. There was a picture on the front page of the LA Times showing a police officer talking to a man without a mask, the police officers mask was below his nose🤦‍♂️

If you look at the people saying we need to all wear masks, they are not wearing masks while telling the rest of us to wear masks. I am looking at you Dr. Fauci and the mayor of Atlanta stood in front of a crowd of a hundred people and said “wear a damn mask!” She didn’t have one on. If the people imploring us to wear masks are imploring us to do it while they are not wearing masks......

ClassAGuy
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by ClassAGuy » Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:08 am

The Exiled One wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:41 pm
I think a case could be made to continue activities as usual even if kids aren’t in the classroom.

Think about it: No matter how you try to mitigate the spread in schools, the kids are still in the same building breathing the same air and touching the same doorknobs. If there’s an outbreak in a school, every kid in the school is exposed. However, with sports or other activities, the outbreaks are isolated to just those groups. Spread could conceivably be contained and easily traced.

My kid is doing Summer Training with his HS now as well as a rec league. He’s certainly more at risk now than he would be in the fall (with the possible exception of in person schooling).

Just my thoughts. I hope they don’t cancel hockey, even if they potentially have to do remote learning.
This will not happen. Didnt happen in the spring and will not happen. MSHSL has already said they need to know if kids are back in school. If they are in remote learning only is over.

It wont be though Walz is a former teacher and realizes kids need to be in the classroom but he is worried about the recent uptick in covid since he loosened things. So what is the compromise its hybrid and let the district incorporate the hybrid.We will all be told its hybrid learning on the 27th that's a done deal.

My question was is students going to school only part time and staying home part time gonna be good enough for sports... I think with every state surrounding us saying yes to fall sports even MICHIGIAN who has a way more politically driven leader it point to sports are back.

All places Goldy listed are on the coast or regional not in in our region our region said sports.

August 4th we can lock this baby up because we will have sports!

The Exiled One
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by The Exiled One » Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:32 am

ClassAGuy wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:08 am
So what is the compromise its hybrid and let the district incorporate the hybrid.We will all be told its hybrid learning on the 27th that's a done deal.

My question was is students going to school only part time and staying home part time gonna be good enough for sports.
I think you may be right about their line of thinking, but I still think it doesn’t add up. Even a hybrid model creates far more exposure for the greater student population than sports would.

In school, hybrid, distance... I think sports could go on no matter what (not that I have a say in it).

ClassAGuy
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by ClassAGuy » Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:45 am

The Exiled One wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:32 am
ClassAGuy wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:08 am
So what is the compromise its hybrid and let the district incorporate the hybrid.We will all be told its hybrid learning on the 27th that's a done deal.

My question was is students going to school only part time and staying home part time gonna be good enough for sports.
I think you may be right about their line of thinking, but I still think it doesn’t add up. Even a hybrid model creates far more exposure for the greater student population than sports would.

In school, hybrid, distance... I think sports could go on no matter what (not that I have a say in it).
No way schools can say you cant come to the building to learn and get your essential meals in some case during the day but Ohh ya you can come use the same facilities for working out in the weight room and using the courts for volleyball and fields for soccer and football where you will be surrounded be other young people sweating and breathing heavily and in contact. That just will not happen.

Summer programs the MSHSL basically said if you want as a coach to do that you have the liability.

The bad is I have heard of outbreaks happening in many programs.

The good is most other states don't seem to mind this and are going ahead anyways with no real way to test or really create a good safe environment. The main argument now is who cafes kids don't die from covid so lets go... The NCAA i think will cancel fall sports because they have to actually come up with a testing plan and right now so many places are out of control.

The high school model its just a state and it seems like the lead in other states is lets just go ahead and ride it out. I have seen no plans to ensure safety maybe just make everyone sign a covid waiver I have hear on here as a solution or just ignore it because its a sham or kids are fine.

There is no plan anywhere so maybe its just saying lets start on time and see how it goes.

goldy313
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by goldy313 » Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:25 pm

I go both ways on this....

The MSHSL is planning on fall sports going on as scheduled.

But....

In the spring even though Walz opened up golf courses and shooting ranges the MSHSL did not allow those sports to start. Trap doesn’t even involve travel and by its very nature mandates social distancing.

Trying to read into the decision making at the MSHSL is hopelessly futile.

On Friday the WIAA received a request from the AD’s in southwest Wisconsin to move fall sports to the spring and spring sports to the summer. The WIAA will have a meeting this month to discuss and vote on the request.

Wise Old Man
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by Wise Old Man » Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:09 pm

blueblood wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:05 pm
WOM, 7Time and Hunters:

Thanks for the input. This discussion seems to have progressed past the early emotional responses from April/May.

Let's face it, COVID is here to stay. Shuttering down is bad for everyone. Local governments, school districts, business, families; and persons are going to need the flexibility to decide what is their proper course of response. Kids in the classroom are, IMO, a must not only for educational purposes, but for their emotional and mental health well being. Teachers who retire, need not be chastised, but they need not use the scare tactics of death either.

Before you all throw stones, my chosen profession requires travel. Trust me, it can be done safely in the presence of large groups of persons.

Sorry all, took a little longer to get back than I thought. Blueblood, quick question, can you please clarify something for me? When you say, "Trust me, it can be done safely in the presence of large groups of persons", are you referring specifically to traveling itself as it relates to athletics? Or, are you saying that in relation to the idea we could pull off in class schooling? Either way, don't you see a difference in how successful those larger groups my be able to be successful when attempted by adults versus kids between the ages of 6-18?

Wise Old Man
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by Wise Old Man » Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:13 pm

Goldy... I think this is the 2nd or 3rd time you have stated that the protests have been a significant accelerator of infections. Can you please link to something that backs this up? Because I haven't seen anything from anywhere scientific that supports that statement. Thanks

WestMetro
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by WestMetro » Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:14 pm

Suspect other organizations , some ad hoc and some more formal , are making contingency strategic plans in case Mshsl eventually decides no high school hockey season .

Wise Old Man
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by Wise Old Man » Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:03 am

goldy313 wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:30 pm
If you look at the Johns Hopkins website, as a country we were trending down with rates comparable to Germany until June 14th or so, then we ratcheted up the infection rate like the entire country was a meat packing plant. Clearly opening bars up coincided with massive protests to create this growth.

The infection rates are much larger in urban areas than rural areas, and in younger people the rate is outpacing that of older people. The narrative that “Trumpers” are driving the higher infection rates don’t hold up to political modeling. We are all responsible for the increase, the msm somehow fail to mention that California is in the same situation as Florida and Texas.

Per the Olmsted County Health Department, by race “blacks” make up 7.8% of the population yet account for 34.8% of Covid-19 positive cases in the county. People between ages 20-29 make up almost 30% of all cases. Draw your own conclusions.....

People living in multi-generational housing, those in low income housing, and those in congregate living are at a much higher risk. How that isn’t a main talking point baffles me. It is pretty obvious that college housing presents a huge problem area, that said how can college football proceed?

In Minnesota in 2 of the last 5 years there have been more deaths due to influenza to people not in long term care facilities than Covid -19 has caused to that same population thus far. We need protect those most at risk, school age kids are not of that group and year in and year out are much more likely to die of influenza or a host of other disorders.

Goldy.... one other thing, can you also provide a link to support the claim above regarding people not in LTCFs dying in greater numbers from annual flu vs Covid? I ask as according to this article, it seems as though the medical community believes that the model the CDC uses to estimate the number of annual deaths from seasonal flu is over-counting them significantly. Here''s the link to the actual article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... eaths-flu/

Here's some thoughts directly from the article:

"Months into the coronavirus pandemic, some politicians and pundits continue to promote ham-handed comparisons between covid-19 and the seasonal flu to score political points.

Though there are many ways to debunk this fundamentally flawed comparison, one of the clearest was put forth this week by Jeremy Samuel Faust, an emergency room physician at Brigham and Women’s Hospital at Harvard Medical School.

As Faust describes it, the issue boils down to this: The annual flu mortality figures published by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention are estimates produced by plugging laboratory-confirmed deaths into a mathematical model that attempts to correct for undercounting. Covid-19 death figures represent a literal count of people who have either tested positive for the virus or whose diagnosis was based on meeting certain clinical and epidemiological criteria.

Such a comparison is of the apples to oranges variety, Faust writes, as the former are “inflated statistical estimates” and the latter are “actual numbers.”

To get a more accurate comparison, one must start with the number of directly confirmed flu deaths, which the CDC tracks on an annual basis. In the past seven flu seasons, going back to 2013, that tally fluctuated between 3,448 and 15,620 deaths."

Here's another part from the article:

"Note that these numbers are very different from the CDC’s final official flu death estimates. For 2018-2019, for instance, the 7,172 confirmed flu deaths translated to a final estimate of between 26,339 and 52,664 deaths. Again, that’s because the CDC plugs the confirmed deaths into a model that attempts to adjust for what many epidemiologists believe is a severe under-count."

Now, let’s add a bar for this season’s covid-19 deaths, which as of this writing stands at 63,259, and which will be even higher by the time you read this. Note the drastic change in the y-axis to accommodate the scale of covid-19 mortality.

Image without a caption

jg2112
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by jg2112 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:51 pm

900 new confirmed infections for yesterday (Sunday, July 19) and one child death, aged between birth and 5 years old.

These aren't the stats I want to see 7 days before Governor Walz presents back to school protocols.

Dog
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by Dog » Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:09 pm

Wise Old Man,
You must have a lot of time on your hands.
Last edited by Dog on Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Hunters1993
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by Hunters1993 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:06 pm

Don’t shoot the messenger. The data is the data. You can’t argue the facts! These aren’t just random numbers they are the facts!

Personal attacks don’t change facts just an fyi!

Everyone wear masks for the ne t two weeks and sports will happen this fall! Come on people JUST DO IT!
#KEEPTHEKIDSINTHECLASSROOM

bodyup88
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by bodyup88 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:45 pm

The next week will be very important with respect to the positive test rate in Minnesota. The seven day rolling average is 4%, just below the 5% threshold many say is critical to keep organizations open. Final push to wear masks and social distance.

Locked