Minnesota Hockey Taking Over?

[USA218]

Another interesting study that changes some peoples supporting narratives greatly. The truth is starting to come out....can't hide it forever!!
#LetsPlayHockey

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covi ... wSRP2OmqsI


This week the CDC quietly updated the Covid number to admit that only 6% of all the 153,504 deaths recorded actually died from Covid

That's 9,210 deaths

The other 94% had 2-3 other serious illnesses & the overwhelming majority were of very advanced age

[east hockey]

Another interesting study that changes some peoples supporting narratives greatly. The truth is starting to come out....can't hide it forever!!
#LetsPlayHockey

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covi ... wSRP2OmqsI


“This week the CDC quietly updated the Covid number to admit that only 6% of all the 153,504 deaths recorded actually died from Covid

That's 9,210 deaths

The other 94% had 2-3 other serious illnesses & the overwhelming majority were of very advanced age”

The quoted statement you just provided isn't on the link you included. You need to show a link to an actual verifiable website which was the source of this quote.

Lee

[USA218]

Another interesting study that changes some peoples supporting narratives greatly. The truth is starting to come out....can't hide it forever!!
#LetsPlayHockey

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covi ... wSRP2OmqsI


“This week the CDC quietly updated the Covid number to admit that only 6% of all the 153,504 deaths recorded actually died from Covid

That's 9,210 deaths

The other 94% had 2-3 other serious illnesses & the overwhelming majority were of very advanced age”

The quoted statement you just provided isn't on the link you included. You need to show a link to an actual verifiable website which was the source of this quote.

Lee

My bad, sorry. I removed the quotes so they can now either be my words or maybe I completely plagiarized from the location that the CDC site was posted

[wolfman]

218 rules the world...

[goldy313]

As of today a total of 1 person under the age of 20 has died of COVID-19 in Minnesota. Influenza kills far more, so does drunk driving, driving while texting. Leukemia, Suicide, Gang violence, in fact Deaths by COVID-19 for those under 20 is about the same as being struck by lightning and only slightly more than dying from a hurricane in Minnesota.

Please continue to allow Wise Old Man and Hunters to hijack thread after thread while censoring others.

[Wise Old Man]

[quote=USA218 post_id=750177 time=1598745498 user_id=25260]
Another interesting study that changes some peoples supporting narratives greatly. The truth is starting to come out....can't hide it forever!!
#LetsPlayHockey

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covi ... wSRP2OmqsI


This week the CDC quietly updated the Covid number to admit that only 6% of all the 153,504 deaths recorded actually died from Covid

That's 9,210 deaths

The other 94% had 2-3 other serious illnesses & the overwhelming majority were of very advanced age


USA218...Personally, the way the CDC sets up there pages and graphs makes it difficult to follow. Regardless, I'm not convinced your interpretation is accurate. Now, I realize the CDC's death totals lag a bit behind those tracking Covid like Johns Hopkins but, Johns Hopkins is currently showing the U.S. as having 182,799.

This is from the CDC website and says it was updated on Aug. 28

Updated August 28, 2020

All Deaths Deaths Percent of Deaths Deaths All Deaths Deaths
involving From All Expected Involving Involving Involving Involving
Covid-19 Causes Deaths Pneumonia Covid-19 and Influenza, Pneumonia or
with or without Pneumonia with or without Influenza or
Covid-19 but excluding Covid-19 or Covid-19
and excluding Influenza Pneumonia
influenza deaths


Total Deaths 167,558 1,801,150 111 171,800 74,236 6,655 270,792

USA218....really not sure how you're interpreting these number but, I don't think they're telling you what you think they are. You do realize that the way the CDC interprets these, is that the number in the first column on the left is the number of deaths they attribute to Covid-19. Meaning, without Covid, those people would've survived. What should really make you take a second glance, is the number of deaths thru the end of August attributable to the Flu -- 6,655. The AVERAGE number of deaths the CDC estimates from Flu each year is around 30,000. However, a number of physicians around our country believe the process by which the CDC estimates annual flu deaths is significantly inaccurate. Almost always estimating a total that is far higher than actual deaths. Again, so far only 6,655 flu deaths thru the end of Aug. is pretty darn low.

[Wise Old Man]

As of today a total of 1 person under the age of 20 has died of COVID-19 in Minnesota. Influenza kills far more, so does drunk driving, driving while texting. Leukemia, Suicide, Gang violence, in fact Deaths by COVID-19 for those under 20 is about the same as being struck by lightning and only slightly more than dying from a hurricane in Minnesota.

Please continue to allow Wise Old Man and Hunters to hijack thread after thread while censoring others.

Goldy....first, why do you always go to the number of deaths from Covid (or lack thereof) for kids as your only real rationale to... "get out there and play"? Especially considering I've provided links to article after article by respected doctors, scientists, and researchers -- true experts in the various aspects of Covid -- that are revealing significant other post-infection maladies, in fairly concerning percentages of people infected, some that could be life-long disabilities. Yet, you rarely ever address any of these with any specificity.

Also, please explain specifically exactly what I'm saying in my posts that meets the standard definition of "hijacking" a thread. All I'm doing is providing information from well respected sources to support my opinions. Isn't that a basic tenant of what these types of "Forums" are all about? Again, I doubt too many others on here would categorize my posts as "hijacking" the thread(s).

Maybe you're upset because I respond to almost every post that disagrees with me. Sorry, as I've said previously, I'm currently unemployed so, I happen to have lot's of time on my hands. And, since there are a heckuva lot more people on your side posting than on mine, responding to almost all of the counter-posts is one of the ways we stay in the debate.

[Wise Old Man]

Another interesting study that changes some peoples supporting narratives greatly. The truth is starting to come out....can't hide it forever!!
#LetsPlayHockey

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covi ... wSRP2OmqsI


This week the CDC quietly updated the Covid number to admit that only 6% of all the 153,504 deaths recorded actually died from Covid

That's 9,210 deaths

The other 94% had 2-3 other serious illnesses & the overwhelming majority were of very advanced age


USA218...Personally, the way the CDC sets up there pages and graphs makes it difficult to follow. Regardless, I'm not convinced your interpretation is accurate. Now, I realize the CDC's death totals lag a bit behind those tracking Covid like Johns Hopkins but, Johns Hopkins is currently showing the U.S. as having 182,799.

This is from the CDC website and says it was updated on Aug. 28

Updated August 28, 2020

All Deaths Deaths Percent of Deaths Deaths All Deaths Deaths
involving From All Expected Involving Involving Involving Involving
Covid-19 Causes Deaths Pneumonia Covid-19 and Influenza, Pneumonia or
with or without Pneumonia with or without Influenza or
Covid-19 but excluding Covid-19 or Covid-19
and excluding Influenza Pneumonia
influenza deaths


Total Deaths 167,558 1,801,150 111 171,800 74,236 6,655 270,792

USA218....really not sure how you're interpreting these number but, I don't think they're telling you what you think they are. You do realize that the way the CDC interprets these, is that the number in the first column on the left is the number of deaths they attribute to Covid-19. Meaning, without Covid, those people would've survived. What should really make you take a second glance, is the number of deaths thru the end of August attributable to the Flu -- 6,655. The AVERAGE number of deaths the CDC estimates from Flu each year is around 30,000. However, a number of physicians around our country believe the process by which the CDC estimates annual flu deaths is significantly inaccurate. Almost always estimating a total that is far higher than actual deaths. Again, so far only 6,655 flu deaths thru the end of Aug. is pretty darn low.

[Wise Old Man]

USA218.... my last post in response to your post regarding the CDC didn't set up properly in regards to how I intended to have the columns and their associated totals relate. I tried again but, when I previewed the post, it was going to look exactly the same again. Regardless, the way I explained it in writing still applies. So, here's the link to the CDC page I was looking at so you can see the actual table (Table #1) I pulled the information from;

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

[Cookster]

Is it really too much to ask for everyone to stick to the topic and stop with your personal views on Covid. Don't post statistics that support your claim, because with Statistics there are always 2 sides to the story. I believe we have had now 3 separate topics that certain individuals just have the need to go on telling their beliefs

Not saying they are wrong, but frankly most of us don't care. The topic in this case is will Minnesota Hockey take over the HS hockey season. If you have pertinent knowledge or thoughts that do not involve Covid on this site, great. If you just want to talk about Covid -- maybe we should just open a Covid Topic, so that you can thump your chest with your viewpoint.

I love this forum, because I learn a lot about the game, and some of the inner workings -- New Coaches, Players Moving and Leaving, Unfair sections, recruiting kids and the issues, and hearing about players doing great things. Covid Sucks, I hate what it is doing to everyone, but I come here to get away from that topic, so please either open up a topic or keep your Covid opinions to yourself. Thank you

[InThePipes]

Is it really too much to ask for everyone to stick to the topic and stop with your personal views on Covid. Don't post statistics that support your claim, because with Statistics there are always 2 sides to the story. I believe we have had now 3 separate topics that certain individuals just have the need to go on telling their beliefs

Not saying they are wrong, but frankly most of us don't care. The topic in this case is will Minnesota Hockey take over the HS hockey season. If you have pertinent knowledge or thoughts that do not involve Covid on this site, great. If you just want to talk about Covid -- maybe we should just open a Covid Topic, so that you can thump your chest with your viewpoint.

I love this forum, because I learn a lot about the game, and some of the inner workings -- New Coaches, Players Moving and Leaving, Unfair sections, recruiting kids and the issues, and hearing about players doing great things. Covid Sucks, I hate what it is doing to everyone, but I come here to get away from that topic, so please either open up a topic or keep your Covid opinions to yourself. Thank you

[blueblood]

[MNFinn]

Let's see if I can summarize the valuable discussion in the first 6 pages of this thread before it got hijacked.

MSHSL will probably do one of the following with hockey - cancel season, 12 games, 17ish games. They will probably decide this in October but would still leave the possibility of lowering # of games or canceling mid-season. Playoffs unlikely unless vaccine effective.

With a canceled season or 12 games, kids most likely leave MSHSL and go with Juniors, MN Hockey (Jr. Gold), or AAU.

With 17ish games, who knows what kids do. If playoffs unlikely, maybe only some go elsewhere? MSHSL will wait until 2020 to decide on playoffs.

Let me know if I have anything wrong or missed anything. Love this forum and this topic if the moderators would keep people from writing off-topic novels and simply repeating personal opinions over and over and over. Discuss those details in a separate thread so people can look at this topic without reading for 8 hours. Thanks everyone.

[wolfman]

I think J Gold is going to be full of good teams and great players. Hockey dads don’t want to take any chances of small season or worse no season at the HS level.

[InThePipes]

Let's see if I can summarize the valuable discussion in the first 6 pages of this thread before it got hijacked.

MSHSL will probably do one of the following with hockey - cancel season, 12 games, 17ish games. They will probably decide this in October but would still leave the possibility of lowering # of games or canceling mid-season. Playoffs unlikely unless vaccine effective.

With a canceled season or 12 games, kids most likely leave MSHSL and go with Juniors, MN Hockey (Jr. Gold), or AAU.

With 17ish games, who knows what kids do. If playoffs unlikely, maybe only some go elsewhere? MSHSL will wait until 2020 to decide on playoffs.

Let me know if I have anything wrong or missed anything. Love this forum and this topic if the moderators would keep people from writing off-topic novels and simply repeating personal opinions over and over and over. Discuss those details in a separate thread so people can look at this topic without reading for 8 hours. Thanks everyone.

I think that's a decent summary.

At least at the present moment with the way things look with schools, I'd like to see the MSHSL step aside ASAP and remove themselves from the equation entirely and allow other organizations to plan for a season. If players/families want to participate, go for it. If players/families think it's too risky for their family, I respect that. In my opinion, the worst thing the MSHSL can do is hold players in limbo wondering will they or won't they play and even if they do is it going to be a 12 game season with no playoffs.

[Hunters1993]

Age Group Number of Cases Number of Deaths
0-4 years 1,494 1
5-9 years 1,405 0
10-14 years 2,102 0
15-19 years 6,602 0
20-24 years 9,923 1
25-29 years 7,586 3
30-34 years 7,040 7
35-39 years 6,344 10
40-44 years 5,569 10
45-49 years 5,226 17
50-54 years 5,107 41
55-59 years 4,517 56
60-64 years 3,400 92
65-69 years 2,264 124
70-74 years 1,711 186
75-79 years 1,371 184
80-84 years 1,229 297
85-89 years 1,070 306
90-94 years 798 291
95-99 years 358 158
100+ years 62 32
Unknown/missing 11 0
More about age


High school age have top five in infections! This is before school opens. And the last four or five days the numbers have been 1000+ new cases per day. Look back two weeks to generally find reason for cases.

High School Sports start training.
Sounds like there have been lots of gatherings for sports.
Glad your kids can play hockey!

No in person school = no hockey! That’s how it should work! Grow up dads and be the responsible adult!

[HockeyCrazy1970]

MSHSL needs to hurry. USHL and NAHL teams have players reporting to camp in the first two weeks of September. Selfish to drag this out then shut it down on kids who could have played elsewhere.

[Hunters1993]

http://kttc.com/2020/08/30/top-white-ho ... trategies/

[Wise Old Man]

Is it really too much to ask for everyone to stick to the topic and stop with your personal views on Covid. Don't post statistics that support your claim, because with Statistics there are always 2 sides to the story. I believe we have had now 3 separate topics that certain individuals just have the need to go on telling their beliefs

Not saying they are wrong, but frankly most of us don't care. The topic in this case is will Minnesota Hockey take over the HS hockey season. If you have pertinent knowledge or thoughts that do not involve Covid on this site, great. If you just want to talk about Covid -- maybe we should just open a Covid Topic, so that you can thump your chest with your viewpoint.

I love this forum, because I learn a lot about the game, and some of the inner workings -- New Coaches, Players Moving and Leaving, Unfair sections, recruiting kids and the issues, and hearing about players doing great things. Covid Sucks, I hate what it is doing to everyone, but I come here to get away from that topic, so please either open up a topic or keep your Covid opinions to yourself. Thank you

To "Cookster", "blueblood", "InthePipes", and anyone else from the "this Covid-thing isn't that big of a deal so let's just play for cripes sake" crowd. It's extremely interesting that the only people expressing frustration with those of us -- OK, lately just me but... -- that are trying to make the case for caution/defending the MSHSL for potentially taking the cautious route, are people who feel the way you guys do. What's very revealing about that is the blatantly obvious unwillingness by almost all of you to answer the key questions I've posed over the last few days. You know, if all of you guys -- and you know who you are -- would genuinely try to answer the questions/defend your positions with actual facts/studies from legitimate Covid experts, I might be willing to quit posting as many times about Covid-specific stuff. Oh, and to "Cookster"...you ask us not to post statistics to back up our "Covid positions" as there are always "2 sides to the story". Actually, when it comes to statistics, there often aren't "2 sides". A lot of times the stats tell a "only one right answer" story. On a similar note, for any topic that's at all controversial, isn't there at least the perception that there are "two sides"? If we all always agreed all the time, it would make these forums a pretty dull place to be.

To be honest, it's concerning that those of you complaining don't seem able to make the connection that, the specifics regarding Covid; it's infectiousness, it's effects (or not) on kids, and the post-infection maladies now appearing, along with the issue of general organizational liability, are all critical parts of the decision-making process for the MSHSL. Thus, making them an important part of the general conversation regarding this topic. I'm sure this won't shock any of you but, I think the only reason you guys are frustrated is because, deep, deep down inside, you know you can't argue with the actual science I'm supporting my position with. What's also interesting is that I've provided the most detailed information on what's going on behind the scenes as it relates to what Minnesota Hockey is doing to prepare in case there isn't an MSHSL season. Thus, I've already contributed to the "other side" of the title of the thread.

The main thing the moderators have asked/demanded is that we don't get "political" in any of our comments. And, so far, that hasn't happened in this thread other than Goldy's accusation last night that we (Hunters and I) were being political. Anyways, here are those questions again. Why don't you guys take a shot at these for just once. C'mon, you can do it....

1.) As many as 15% of BIG10 athletes testing positive for Covid have been diagnosed with post-infection myocarditis (there other post-infection maladies appearing, including lung scarring, kidney damage, and general cardiovascular damage to name a few). Which, was one of the main reasons they have postponed all fall sports until Jan. 1st. The BIG10 medical advisory board that advised the school presidents is made of extremely well respected doctors and specialists from the various world renowned medical facilities connected to almost all of the BIG10 schools.

Having said all that, please explain with specifics why, if it's not safe for the BIG10 to play fall sports, how does it makes sense that it's safe enough for kids 6-18 years of age to play team contact sports?

2.) I’ve provided links to very recent studies that indicate that kids can carry infectious levels of virus in their noses for up to three weeks, which only heightens the risk of secondary infection to others more likely to have severe cases of the virus. As a reminder, here are a couple quotes from the South Korean study I referenced a couple days ago;

"In this case series study, inapparent infections in children may have been associated with silent COVID-19 transmission in the community," the researchers wrote in a new study."

""In this study, the authors estimate that 85 infected children (93%) would have been missed using a testing strategy focused on testing of symptomatic patients alone," they wrote."

Here’s my question…What’s your response to the concern by both medical experts and school/sports administrators, that by allowing youth/high school/college sports to play, especially team contact sports (especially those played indoors) could lead to significant secondary transmission to coaches, parents, siblings, and grandparents, many of whom may have underlying health issues (and for the grandparents their advanced age) which could lead to numerous negative outcomes?

3.) Since the virus is now considered to be aerosolized, thus significantly increasing the risk of infection in indoor situations, how do you feel school/sports administrators are able to justify that significantly increased risk when determining the viability of indoor team sports?

4.) Considering that USA Hockey and Minnesota Hockey aren’t at all liable for any Covid related legal challenges, whereas the MSHSL is, please explain why an MSHSL administrator should take on the risks of a player having a bad outcome due to Covid? Remember, all it takes is one kid out of the 1000’s that play sports to have a bad outcome that leads to legal action. And no, having them sign waivers isn’t an option as the legal validity of those in court often comes into question.

5.) I’ve mentioned this a few times before but, it’s awfully easy for anyone who isn’t required to put their name on the line in deciding whether kids can play or not and therefore accept the potential liability, to say “hey, these kids aren’t dying or even getting very sick so let’s play”.

My question is (for the 4th or 5th time), how many of you are currently serving in an administrative leadership position that will require you to determine whether your organization will/accept full liability for any Covid related legal challenges.?

Again, if most of you actually answer these questions in a legitimate, detailed manner, with supporting evidence, I promise that I will back off of posting Covid related items.

[Hunters1993]

Case Daily Trends - Minnesota

Skip Table
Date New Cases 7-Day Moving Avg
Aug 29 2020
1974
804
Aug 28 2020
0
730
Aug 27 2020
850
730
Aug 26 2020
1154
726
Aug 25 2020
529
739
Aug 24 2020
409
713
Aug 23 2020
714
655
Aug 22 2020
1451
632

7 day trend going the wrong way. Thanks “life as normal folks”!

[Wise Old Man]

Since no one has answered my questions yet, I thought I'd pass this along. It's an article explaining the inaccuracy of the "article" that "USA218" linked to last night about the CDC "quietly" updating its numbers "to admit that only 6%" of people listed as coronavirus deaths "actually died from Covid," since "the other 94% had 2-3 other serious illnesses."

Here's a link to a CNN article dealing with it...

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/08/30/poli ... ssion=true

"Twitter on Sunday took down a tweet containing a false claim about coronavirus death statistics that was made by a supporter of the baseless QAnon conspiracy theory. The tweet -- which has been replaced with a message saying, "This Tweet is no longer available because it violated the Twitter Rules -- from "Mel Q," copied from someone else's Facebook post, claimed that the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention had "quietly" updated its numbers "to admit that only 6%" of people listed as coronavirus deaths "actually died from Covid," since "the other 94% had 2-3 other serious illnesses."

That's not what the CDC said.

"The CDC's latest regular update to a public statistics page on the pandemic said that for 6% of the deaths included in its statistics, "Covid-19 was the only cause mentioned" on the deceased person's death certificate. That is not at all the same thing as saying only 6% of reported Covid-19 deaths "actually died" from Covid-19. It simply means that the other 94% were listed as having at least one additional factor contributing to their death. For example, the other 94% includes people whose death certificate listed both Covid-19 and obesity, both Covid-19 and diabetes, or both Covid-19 and heart disease -- among other conditions."

Just a friendly reminder that where we choose to get our info, especially info related to Covid, can often affect whether its accurate or not.

[SpOilerfan]

I check this thread looking for info on the upcoming season. Instead I get responses longer than the Great Gatsby. Guess its my fault for checking updates on it. Just wish people would stick to the topic and keep responses shorter than War and Peace.

[blueblood]

Facts:

USA Hockey has sanctioned play for the 2020-21 season.

The Chief Medical and Safety Doctor for USA Hockey, who is associated withe the Mayo Clinic, published the following article titled "Dr. Michael Stuart From the Mayo Clinic Discusses A Safe Return To Hockey" on August 18, 2020

https://www.usahockey.com/news_article/show/1110651

MN Hockey is in Phase 3 of their return to play protocol

MN Hockey has an approved 19U age group

Arenas are open for business

High school STP programs were allowed to begin the week of June 15th

MN Tier 1 Hockey started up in mid-July with teams boys (youth) and girls teams ranging from 14U to 18U playing games

[HockeyCrazy1970]

Here is a link to an interactive website that covers return to play for the United States
https://sparxhockey.com/pages/usa-map

[MWS coach]

During a typical year, our community doesn't hold tryouts for J Gold until after HS tryouts are completed, are other communities the same? Without advance notice from MNHSL, season wouldn't be able to start when other level's (squirt-bantam) start allowing for longer season. Does a delayed start for HS prompt more players to play J Gold, if that starts earlier?