covid and MH

[6AAGuy]

Thank you, yesiplayedhockey.

[east hockey]

Wise old man

What am a WRONG about... I didn't put out any stats....or some link posted by a website with an agenda...I merely stated my beliefs.

it's a called America...Doesnt mean I will riot...or protest...or cry in my milk

My beliefs are my beliefs.

I also BELIEVE

The number of flu cases this year will be at historic lows....

Some drug company will announce something soon (now that the election is over)

Yes we all know Walz wants to close things down.. Many of us disagree with that decision....But I'm still allowed to have an opinion....At least I can until someone tells me it's now against the law

Everyone on this website knows your position on Covid...Name drop all you want, produce all the facts you find on the websites you read daily... you're not going to change my beliefs.. Now please, I'm asking you nicely, step aside from this topic and let everyone else comment..No one wants to be on this sight if someone IMMEDIATELY attacks the first person who doesn't see things their way. The forum is for "discussion" ...not a place to prove every single time that someone is right and someone is wrong.. Finally...Don't attack someone's beliefs.... That's what's dividing this country even further apart. it's okay to argue facts but that's not what I was stating earlier

Wise Old Man being in this thread isn't preventing anyone from expressing his or heropinion. The idea that he's preventing this, basically, is an attempt to censor him. Funny, because that's what you're implying he's doing.

So, if facts won't change your opinion, what does?

Also, your opinion of what's dividing the country differs greatly from mine. I won't get into what my opinion on this because it's very political.

He is as free to speak on this forum as you are. You might want to try accepting this, because your complaints about how someone speaks will change nothing. As a matter of fact, I don't see where a single opinion has changed as a result of this "discussion". Which begs the question, why are we even discussing COVID? I think part is to vent, part is to pretend one is the "smartest person in the room", one is to attempt to prove someone's is right simply because someone is agreeing with them. It's all become a load of crap.

Lee

[east hockey]

Goldy you are 1000% correct

We all become products of the sources we read and watch (CNN, Fox, CNBC...Star Tribune, Trumps twitter account and yes even Facebook)...For every article written by a medical expert that we should shut down the world, there's another article written by a expert saying just the opposite.

We "justify" our decisions /philosophies based on this information we absorb...We repeat would we've learned as if we are all of a sudden "the experts"...The other person is wrong but they watch Fox and I watch CNN.

I do firmly believe this

Our bodies are built to take on a lot

Small cuts heal, broken bones will mend...The body fights off disgusting germs found on the money we carry around and have you ever checked how dirty your cell phone is... Even the 5 second rule doesn't stand a chance again our immune system. Remember as young parents we were told to bring your kids into that dirty day care center and they will not get sick or ear aches near as often?

Have you ever noticed that doctors rarely get sick? Why is that..Yes its because they wear a mask, yes its because they wash their hands 10 times a day.... but they are still around "sick people" all the time. Their body is "use" to fighting off all types of viruses.

In my opinion..Isolating our kids is not solving the problem...it's prolonging it...Am I right...maybe..am I wrong...Man I hope not

Sorry “Iplayed” but, you’re dead wrong about being able to find/read articles from an opposing medical expert about the effectiveness of shutting down vs not or, as the article “puckster” just linked, the effectiveness of masks vs not. You’re simply incorrect. It’s not “both sides”.

Goldy...love you bud but, you’re really going to go Scott Atlas on the bit?!? Herd immunity... Literally almost every infectious disease expert is saying that will lead to over a million deaths in this country. C’mon man, you’re better than that. And, mask mandates work if you get 85-90% of buy in. We’re lucky if we’ve reached 70%. We delayed this as much as we did because of how long and how effective our original lockdown was. But since then, we’ve slowly been sliding in the wrong direction.

I know of at least 6 different youth teams that have lost games due to players having contracted Covid. There’s a current DI college team in our state with 15 plus players positive right now. I also know of three current NHL players who tested positive recently. Here’s an article I had sent to me from a friend in Anchorage who’s involved in all levels of hockey in that state. Very interesting read...

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2020/10 ... ournament/

Just spoke with a friend who is involved in local disaster preparedness and he said the statewide health and medical community is strongly advocating for Walz to dial it back. Said hospitals are almost full and, combined with the number of staff now quarantined statewide, things are getting really challenging. Their recommendations are no bars, no in person restaurant dining, and pausing youth sports and activities for at least a month and maybe thru to Jan. 1. He wasn’t sure if or when Walz would react but, felt it could easily be this week. Stay safe everyone.

You understand that with Hunters1983 (or whatever that number was) gone, you've become the new Evil Empire, right?

Lee

[elliott70]

To answer Lee, the thread was started to share what is happening around the state with covid and hockey.

As an example in district 16 we are limiting travel among other things.

If people would post that sort of information it would be helpful to me and perhaps others.

[east hockey]

To answer Lee, the thread was started to share what is happening around the state with covid and hockey.

As an example in district 16 we are limiting travel among other things.

If people would post that sort of information it would be helpful to me and perhaps others.

If people can stick to that only instead of interjecting their opinions constantly, we can keep the topic open.

Lee

[elliott70]

fingers crossed

[Wise Old Man]

Goldy you are 1000% correct

We all become products of the sources we read and watch (CNN, Fox, CNBC...Star Tribune, Trumps twitter account and yes even Facebook)...For every article written by a medical expert that we should shut down the world, there's another article written by a expert saying just the opposite.

We "justify" our decisions /philosophies based on this information we absorb...We repeat would we've learned as if we are all of a sudden "the experts"...The other person is wrong but they watch Fox and I watch CNN.

I do firmly believe this

Our bodies are built to take on a lot

Small cuts heal, broken bones will mend...The body fights off disgusting germs found on the money we carry around and have you ever checked how dirty your cell phone is... Even the 5 second rule doesn't stand a chance again our immune system. Remember as young parents we were told to bring your kids into that dirty day care center and they will not get sick or ear aches near as often?

Have you ever noticed that doctors rarely get sick? Why is that..Yes its because they wear a mask, yes its because they wash their hands 10 times a day.... but they are still around "sick people" all the time. Their body is "use" to fighting off all types of viruses.

In my opinion..Isolating our kids is not solving the problem...it's prolonging it...Am I right...maybe..am I wrong...Man I hope not

Sorry “Iplayed” but, you’re dead wrong about being able to find/read articles from an opposing medical expert about the effectiveness of shutting down vs not or, as the article “puckster” just linked, the effectiveness of masks vs not. You’re simply incorrect. It’s not “both sides”.

Goldy...love you bud but, you’re really going to go Scott Atlas on the bit?!? Herd immunity... Literally almost every infectious disease expert is saying that will lead to over a million deaths in this country. C’mon man, you’re better than that. And, mask mandates work if you get 85-90% of buy in. We’re lucky if we’ve reached 70%. We delayed this as much as we did because of how long and how effective our original lockdown was. But since then, we’ve slowly been sliding in the wrong direction.

I know of at least 6 different youth teams that have lost games due to players having contracted Covid. There’s a current DI college team in our state with 15 plus players positive right now. I also know of three current NHL players who tested positive recently. Here’s an article I had sent to me from a friend in Anchorage who’s involved in all levels of hockey in that state. Very interesting read...

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2020/10 ... ournament/

Just spoke with a friend who is involved in local disaster preparedness and he said the statewide health and medical community is strongly advocating for Walz to dial it back. Said hospitals are almost full and, combined with the number of staff now quarantined statewide, things are getting really challenging. Their recommendations are no bars, no in person restaurant dining, and pausing youth sports and activities for at least a month and maybe thru to Jan. 1. He wasn’t sure if or when Walz would react but, felt it could easily be this week. Stay safe everyone.

You understand that with Hunters1983 (or whatever that number was) gone, you've become the new Evil Empire, right?

Lee

Lee...thanks for your response and, yes, I’m well aware I’m now “Public Enemy No. 1” as it regards any conversation about Covid.

Allow me to respond to “Iplayed” and I will do my best to avoid any detailed Covid comments moving forward.

First “Iplayed”... I apologize if you felt I “attacked” your opinion or belief. However, although we are certainly all entitled to our opinions or beliefs, that doesn’t make all opinions or beliefs equal. Especially in regards to a topic like Covid which is based in generally provable science and information. In these specific types of topics, there are actually legitimate experts who’ve spent their entire lives studying said topic or issue, along with a treasure trove of written papers, studies, and news stories that actually prove how accurate or inaccurate certain claims/opinions/beliefs are or are not.

Having said that, usually, if someone is just stating their “opinion” or “belief”, they usually actually put one of those words into the sentence prior to actually stating their opinion or belief. In this case, you chose not to do that and specifically stated, “For every article written by a medical expert that we should shut down the world, there's another article written by a expert saying just the opposite.” Not sure about you but, if I make that sort of definitive statement that I know will cause significant emotional reaction, especially if the topic has already proven to be extremely divisive, I include some type of evidence to back up my statement. You obviously did not. Again, the point being, not all opinions/beliefs are created equal.

Next...so now stating someone is wrong about their opinion or belief is “attacking” them? I didn’t call you names or use foul language. I simply stated your opinion/belief isn’t accurate (wrong). And, if I really want this post to be even longer than it already is, I could literally supply links to 50 plus articles or papers or actual studies from actual experts in virology or infectious diseases that supports my opinion that your opinion isn’t accurate. All I’ve ever done since we shut things down to Covid in March is make the case, always trying to use supportive science-based information, that trying to play youth sports (especially indoors) is likely to cause unnecessary significant illness and preventable deaths. If you’re going to accuse me of “immediately attacking” anyone who tries to disagree with my perspective, please go back and cite even one time I accused someone of being intentionally disingenuous or, made an actual personal attack on anyone on the threads. Here’s a hint, I don’t think you’ll find one.

One other thing all of you who may be frustrated with my dogged attempts to support my position or, push back against some of yours regarding Covid may want to look at a little closer. FAR more often than not, I usually respond to a post that I believe science and information says is inaccurate. I’m not usually “starting” these little backs and forth. What’s amazing is how sensitive some of you seem to be when actually pushed back on regarding your opinions specific to this topic. It’s almost like you know deep inside that you’re making an emotionally based argument (you’re incredible passion for our sport) that’s not generally supported by science. So, you choose to lash out at me instead.

Let me close with this, I doubt I’ve ever met any of you but, regarding the topics on this board, no matter what your opinion is , I don’t take things personally. Nor do I hold grudges. Life is way too short. It’s why I do my best not to ever get personal with any of my comments. Anyways...I truly enjoy the back and forth with all of you. Stay safe and let’s hope we can keep playing.

[Wise Old Man]

Six New England states and New Jersey coordinate to pause youth sports, specifically hockey until at least Jan. 1.

https://vtdigger.org/liveblog/vermont-s ... il-dec-31/

[Wise Old Man]

My mistake. They're coordinating to halt any interstate competition, not shutting the sport down completely. My sincere apologies for not reading it more closely. Still a significant step.

[Wise Old Man]

For those that believe youth sports isn’t or hasn’t been a significant Covid infection vector, here’s another article from late October from the Boston Globe. I’m pretty sure they’re using the same Covid safety protocols in arenas that we are.

https://www.boston.com/news/coronavirus ... virus-2020

[Cookster]

The challenges I am most frustrated about are the individuals 16-20, and to some extent their parents. In our community, parents let their 11th grader daughter have a Halloween party with 200 ish kids showing up. Several of the girls who are planning on playing HS Hockey (V or JV) went, and surprise, several of the kids tested positive.

It irks me that the parents let their kids have these parties, which spreads the disease. Then some of these kids have younger siblings, and it is quite possible that they infected them, which then causes the spread. One of the parents whose kid tested positive and who just happens to be on the local hockey board said there was minimal contact between the siblings, but did not plan to have the Dad or son tested before continuing to play. This is how the teams are going to get shut down.

If we are careful, it is more likely that we can continue. But enough idiotic parents that let their kids have parties and don't have everyone in the house tested, and we might get shut down.

[ClassAGuy]

As of Tonight
Marshall MN
Faribault MN
Chisago Lakes MN
Bloomington MN
Duluth MN
Northfield MN
St. Peter MN
Rochester MN
Winona MN

All have suspended activities for the winter to start and will not start Hockey on time keep adding them as you hear them.

[thefatcat]

The challenges I am most frustrated about are the individuals 16-20, and to some extent their parents. In our community, parents let their 11th grader daughter have a Halloween party with 200 ish kids showing up. Several of the girls who are planning on playing HS Hockey (V or JV) went, and surprise, several of the kids tested positive.

It irks me that the parents let their kids have these parties, which spreads the disease. Then some of these kids have younger siblings, and it is quite possible that they infected them, which then causes the spread. One of the parents whose kid tested positive and who just happens to be on the local hockey board said there was minimal contact between the siblings, but did not plan to have the Dad or son tested before continuing to play. This is how the teams are going to get shut down.

If we are careful, it is more likely that we can continue. But enough idiotic parents that let their kids have parties and don't have everyone in the house tested, and we might get shut down.

Do you live in Edina? That sounds like the shenanigans going on in Edina

[Puckguy19]

As of Tonight
Marshall MN
Faribault MN
Chisago Lakes MN
Bloomington MN
Duluth MN
Northfield MN
St. Peter MN
Rochester MN
Winona MN

All have suspended activities for the winter to start and will not start Hockey on time keep adding them as you hear them.

In fairness, you could probably list all schools that have hockey. 7,000 of anything is a big number. Likely won’t be business as hoped.

[ClassAGuy]

As of Tonight
Marshall MN
Faribault MN
Chisago Lakes MN
Bloomington MN
Duluth MN
Northfield MN
St. Peter MN
Rochester MN
Winona MN

All have suspended activities for the winter to start and will not start Hockey on time keep adding them as you hear them.

In fairness, you could probably list all schools that have hockey. 7,000 of anything is a big number. Likely won’t be business as hoped.

Yes I agree but many school boards been pressured by Parent groups to not suspend Activities even though they are in distant learning only.

The above school districts as of this morning have suspended all sports at least into Dec some all the way to Jan which means no hockey. They could reverse it because their will be parent pressure. I also think there will be more because lets be honest its not looking great these days.

[jg2112]

We just got word this morning that our northern Ramsey County school district will be transitioning its elementary and middle school students to full distance learning at the end of this month. The school district bordering us to the south already is 100% distance learning.

I don't know what this means for indoor winter sports, but I don't think it's a good sign.

[Wise Old Man]

We just got word this morning that our northern Ramsey County school district will be transitioning its elementary and middle school students to full distance learning at the end of this month. The school district bordering us to the south already is 100% distance learning.

I don't know what this means for indoor winter sports, but I don't think it's a good sign.

Yeah, the challenge is that the infection thresholds the MDH has established for the pausing of activities is a "recommendation" not a requirement. Which, makes it a lot easier for a "loud" group of parents to influence those decisions. The problem is, there are a heck of a lot more kids that don't play sports or do activities vs those that do, especially in the bigger schools. But, since most of the districts are going all on-line, sports continuing doesn't really affect those who don't participate from a Covid standpoint. Thus, they generally aren't putting the same level of pressure to pause sports as the parents of athletes are to keep them going. Obviously, if it gets much worse, Walz or individual mayors can close things down and my guess is that's not far off. Probably right after Thanksgiving.

[jg2112]

To me, the best situation is to let the players keep practicing in their bubbles and play. If there was a testing regime, they'd be able to proceed without concern but, that wasn't a concern in this country.

So I would suspect many schools will practice, play games, hope for the best, and shut down for 2 weeks if they get bad news.

[WestMetro]

All I will say to Bloom , Duluth and Roch which are the 3rd ,4th and 5th biggest cities in the state i think ;

Have you done a study or simulation of what the student athletes will do with their free unstructured time when sports are stopped ? If you haven’t , can you really call it a complete holistic informed decision on behalf of the kids?

— how much and where will they congregate instead? How does that compare to the disease spread during sports? More, less, same?
— how much more time spent alone, unsettled and worrying ? How much more experimentation ,addiction , or worse
— deterioration of athletic conditioning
—etc

Have you surveyed parents ? Aren’t they the clients ?

And if you the districts don’t want to sponsor sports , have you allowed for a reasonable transition period for your decision so the athletes might join an alternate sponsored sports program if one exists ?

Will there be a complete monthly cost reduction of sports related district staff and other costs? Will this cost savings go back to athletes parents to enroll in sports sponsored by other groups?

[goldy313]

I can not answer your question with anything but an opinion. I have talked at length to high school football coaches who express a problem due to lack of structure.

FWIW Rochester just shut down both their indoor rinks until at least November 30. Public schools are shut down until at least January 7th.

Physical health vs economic health vs mental health......it goes on and on. No perfect answers.

[goldy313]

Per capita Minnesota is now #7 in the nation. Given population variety it is now us and Wisconsin for top two.

It was once the Northeast, then the Southeast,we were arrogant to think we would not be next.

Protect those we can, treat those we can.

[ClassAGuy]

North Dakota just put a pause on all prep winter sports until Dec. 14th at the earliest.

Gov Walz announced yesterday he will be introducing more restrictions this week.

See what happens I don't think he will pause sports but seeing North Dakota do it .....

Hockey Starting for about 84% of programs on Monday Nov 23rd lets hope we get there.

[jg2112]

8,700 positives today in MN. A 35% positivity rate. The pandemic is out of control.

I think we might be beyond masks stopping the spread of this virus. It's worth doing it, but we're in trouble.

11/12's report was based on 1,956 infections per day (14-day period).
11/19's will be based on 2,825 infections per day.

11/26? 4,825.

I think it's time we look out for each other and, most importantly, the health care workers already begging for relief from what's about to hit their hospitals and long-term facilities. What this country has done to them the past 8 months is unconscionable.

[HockeyStorm]

Keep in mind a standardized PCR is going to detect if you've EVER had the antibody in your system so there are going to be false positives with the numbers you are seeing everyday, this is why many people are asymptomatic. No standard has been set at what constitutes a false positive but generally anything 40 or above. This is why the test results show DETECTED/ UNDETECTED instead of positive or negative. Detected means that the antibody is detected in your system but doesn't mean you have COVID in the absence of symptoms. The state is reporting all DETECTED as a positive result which is not accurate.

[6AAGuy]

The Great Doctor Fauci himself has suggested PCR above 35 is basically useless, and going to give false positives. Yet we fail to have a standard that mandates 35 or below. So yes, false positives are going to impact the case numbers. And the decision makers are keenly focused on case numbers (but running tests above 35).