The Gentry Academy Thread

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jg2112
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Re: The Gentry Academy Thread

Post by jg2112 » Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:55 pm

This parent is not saying it's 4 plus hours a day but, it's often as much as between 2-3 hours per day.

If you're talking about only ice time during the school day, this is incorrect. If you're including after-school team practices / game to the amount of time, you are correct on certain days.

Wise Old Man
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Re: The Gentry Academy Thread

Post by Wise Old Man » Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:52 pm

jg2112 wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:55 pm
This parent is not saying it's 4 plus hours a day but, it's often as much as between 2-3 hours per day.

If you're talking about only ice time during the school day, this is incorrect. If you're including after-school team practices / game to the amount of time, you are correct on certain days.

Jg... yes, I was referring to total time on ice on any given day in-season.

Puck8
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Re: The Gentry Academy Thread

Post by Puck8 » Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:56 pm

WOM.
I appreciate the level response and you clearly get it. The main point I am making is that public schools and youth hockey associations are often the driving force behind the success of privates/charter due to the shenanigans and failures within their own structure and operations. People want what’s best for their kids, and if it means pulling them and sacrificing in order to provide a better overall experience, then that’s what some do.

I see constant bashing that it’s a bunch of rich, entitled kids only (pay to play). That’s laughable as I consider what most families have had to do to make it work - and how many families stick to it despite their kid not being on varsity (school has grown by 3x in the past few years. There simply aren’t that many varsity spots). I’m not naive enough to think that hockey isn’t a big part of Gentry - it is, but I’m not aware of one parent who moved their kid to that school for the sole purpose of hockey. And if they did, they probably aren’t there any longer as the academic, behavioral and accountability standards are a breath of fresh air when compared to public schools. There are so many other positives relative to the scholastic and social development that it’s hard to outline them all here.

Regarding the ice time - the WIN time is offered for the kids to be on the ice but it is 1.25 hrs. Most kids use that 1-4 times a week but it varies depending on school work load. If you add in team practice, then yes, you get to 2 - 2.25 hrs on a given day (team practice is 1 hour). My son has been there 5 years and I don’t recall him ever having 3 hours of ice a day and he takes advantage of as much as he can. I am not aware of many, if any that skate 5 days a week at WIN time. Most are 2-3. That’s firsthand experience. I’m not denying that the kids get more ice time, but it’s not nearly what people are claiming, and I’m fully aware that high end, and those seeking to be high end players in other schools are doing supplemental training outside of their team training throughout the year.

I feel like I’ve been too verbose and rambling, but maybe some of this helps paint a more accurate picture than what I’ve seen posted here and elsewhere. Not trying to ‘convert’ anyone, in fact it doesn’t really matter to me if anyone changes their opinion on Gentry, but I think it’s important to challenge the misinformation out there. Thanks again for your response.

BlueLineSpecial
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Re: The Gentry Academy Thread

Post by BlueLineSpecial » Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:13 pm

Puck8 wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:56 pm
WOM.
I appreciate the level response and you clearly get it. The main point I am making is that public schools and youth hockey associations are often the driving force behind the success of privates/charter due to the shenanigans and failures within their own structure and operations. People want what’s best for their kids, and if it means pulling them and sacrificing in order to provide a better overall experience, then that’s what some do.

I see constant bashing that it’s a bunch of rich, entitled kids only (pay to play). That’s laughable as I consider what most families have had to do to make it work - and how many families stick to it despite their kid not being on varsity (school has grown by 3x in the past few years. There simply aren’t that many varsity spots). I’m not naive enough to think that hockey isn’t a big part of Gentry - it is, but I’m not aware of one parent who moved their kid to that school for the sole purpose of hockey. And if they did, they probably aren’t there any longer as the academic, behavioral and accountability standards are a breath of fresh air when compared to public schools. There are so many other positives relative to the scholastic and social development that it’s hard to outline them all here.

Regarding the ice time - the WIN time is offered for the kids to be on the ice but it is 1.25 hrs. Most kids use that 1-4 times a week but it varies depending on school work load. If you add in team practice, then yes, you get to 2 - 2.25 hrs on a given day (team practice is 1 hour). My son has been there 5 years and I don’t recall him ever having 3 hours of ice a day and he takes advantage of as much as he can. I am not aware of many, if any that skate 5 days a week at WIN time. Most are 2-3. That’s firsthand experience. I’m not denying that the kids get more ice time, but it’s not nearly what people are claiming, and I’m fully aware that high end, and those seeking to be high end players in other schools are doing supplemental training outside of their team training throughout the year.

I feel like I’ve been too verbose and rambling, but maybe some of this helps paint a more accurate picture than what I’ve seen posted here and elsewhere. Not trying to ‘convert’ anyone, in fact it doesn’t really matter to me if anyone changes their opinion on Gentry, but I think it’s important to challenge the misinformation out there. Thanks again for your response.
No offense Puck8, but if you spent any time on this board prior to creating an account you should have known exactly what the general sentiment and behavior is here. I've been on the board for over 10 years now, and was a creeper for probably 3-4 years before that. I knew full well going into it that as a Hill grad and fan I was not going to get a lick of sympathy, empathy or understanding. The vast majority of people on this board want MN hockey to continue to be Mayberry-centric. Every kid needs to play for the community they grew up in. They can never leave high school early for other opportunities or development. If you have any sustained success at the A level, especially if your a near-metro or gasp private institution you're a sandbagger. If there isn't proper representation from the north, then all the tourney is and all that MN high school hockey has become is a game for wealthy metro communities. If you support a private school, you're a recruiting machine stealing young boys away in the night from their blessed public school homes. Richy rich private schools destroying community based hockey (nevermind the facts that at Hill a lot of parents sacrifice immensely to send their kids there. I even recall a recent kid working multiple jobs - I believe it was a goalie for Hill - to pay his own tuition). On and on it goes. I gave up a long time ago expecting much on this board, and you should give up on that dream too. You'll be happier :lol:

That said, it's a lot better than it was 8-10 years ago. I assume all the old timers who believe if you're not from Warroad or Eveleth then you're not a true MN hockey purebred are slowly disappearing.

Enjoy the success of Gentry, find like-minded people who see the ever-expanding opportunities to improve and advance MN hockey as a good thing, and don't read much into the musings of those on this board.
The City of Hill Murray is beautiful this time of year

BlueLineSpecial
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Re: The Gentry Academy Thread

Post by BlueLineSpecial » Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:17 pm

And also, thanks for providing the updated information you did on the school. I wasn't aware of a lot of what you addressed, and while I never had an issue with their model I was certainly aware of the chatter and found it difficult to get the facts.
The City of Hill Murray is beautiful this time of year

Puck8
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Re: The Gentry Academy Thread

Post by Puck8 » Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:58 pm

Thanks, Blue. Trust me, I have no expectation that things will change in terms of attitude and perception. Facts are often swatted away like a mosquito on a summer night. We’ve lived this for 5 years and can identify with what you’ve outlined.

I would not have even chimed in had it not been for the vitriol on Twitter, some of which I’ve seen festering here. Just wanted to get some facts injected into the conversation. Now, back to celebrating a Championship 😀

Thanks for the support. Looks like we’ll be in 4AA next year. Looking forward to a battle with your squad!

BlueLineSpecial
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Re: The Gentry Academy Thread

Post by BlueLineSpecial » Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:12 pm

Puck8 wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:58 pm
Thanks, Blue. Trust me, I have no expectation that things will change in terms of attitude and perception. Facts are often swatted away like a mosquito on a summer night. We’ve lived this for 5 years and can identify with what you’ve outlined.

I would not have even chimed in had it not been for the vitriol on Twitter, some of which I’ve seen festering here. Just wanted to get some facts injected into the conversation. Now, back to celebrating a Championship 😀

Thanks for the support. Looks like we’ll be in 4AA next year. Looking forward to a battle with your squad!
Indeed! Assume they will be in 4AA...should be a fun section. I have terrible anxiety when sections roll around. Having Gentry in the mix may well add to that. Trust me, twitter is worse! Thank goodness the moderators do a good job of keeping the worst stuff out. I've been called a Catholic child molester on Twitter, along with plenty of other choice words. I see during the whole HM state kerfuffle there was plenty of that being chucked around on Twitter.
The City of Hill Murray is beautiful this time of year

WestMetro
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Re: The Gentry Academy Thread

Post by WestMetro » Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:46 pm

Blue , regarding your comments of frustration about forum posting above. That’s why I have suggested to Lee and Karl to split off a new thread for peoples suggestions for MSHSL rule changes and eligibility and enforcement, WOM has offered his specific suggestions which would be a good start

That way it would separate the success of the kids and the coaches from peoples concerns from the 10,000 foot perspective . Right now everyone says they are not pointing fingers at kids or families or coaches , but on the other hand it can’t help but get comingled so kids and families see it as a personal attack .

I mean we had that happen again on Twitter yesterday and today where a well-known Twitter site repeated a comment about specific kids and families, And then when challenged said
“ well it really wasn’t about the kids and families, but..........”. I don’t feel it will be helpful to mention the Twitter site, many people already saw it

Just a thought for Lee and Karl , And then I will probably leave this discussion as someone suggested I should do a couple pages ago. Before doing so I will congratulate gentry again on a fantastic season and tournament, Especially the East grand Forks win

Hockeyxyz
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Re: The Gentry Academy Thread

Post by Hockeyxyz » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:41 am

What’s the purpose of MSHSL bylaw 308.00 solicitation of a student, if coaches and parents ignore it and MSHSL looks the other way? I have no interest in watching the “Minnesota State High School Hockey Tournament” anymore if it’s just a bunch of recruited players from all over the place. Just do away with the bylaw and call it what it is: Pre Juniors Hockey Club, instead of just pretending that recruiting isn’t happening. It’s just an open, dirty little secret.

Slap Shot
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Re: The Gentry Academy Thread

Post by Slap Shot » Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:40 am

BlueLineSpecial wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:13 pm
Puck8 wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:56 pm
WOM.
I appreciate the level response and you clearly get it. The main point I am making is that public schools and youth hockey associations are often the driving force behind the success of privates/charter due to the shenanigans and failures within their own structure and operations. People want what’s best for their kids, and if it means pulling them and sacrificing in order to provide a better overall experience, then that’s what some do.

I see constant bashing that it’s a bunch of rich, entitled kids only (pay to play). That’s laughable as I consider what most families have had to do to make it work - and how many families stick to it despite their kid not being on varsity (school has grown by 3x in the past few years. There simply aren’t that many varsity spots). I’m not naive enough to think that hockey isn’t a big part of Gentry - it is, but I’m not aware of one parent who moved their kid to that school for the sole purpose of hockey. And if they did, they probably aren’t there any longer as the academic, behavioral and accountability standards are a breath of fresh air when compared to public schools. There are so many other positives relative to the scholastic and social development that it’s hard to outline them all here.

Regarding the ice time - the WIN time is offered for the kids to be on the ice but it is 1.25 hrs. Most kids use that 1-4 times a week but it varies depending on school work load. If you add in team practice, then yes, you get to 2 - 2.25 hrs on a given day (team practice is 1 hour). My son has been there 5 years and I don’t recall him ever having 3 hours of ice a day and he takes advantage of as much as he can. I am not aware of many, if any that skate 5 days a week at WIN time. Most are 2-3. That’s firsthand experience. I’m not denying that the kids get more ice time, but it’s not nearly what people are claiming, and I’m fully aware that high end, and those seeking to be high end players in other schools are doing supplemental training outside of their team training throughout the year.

I feel like I’ve been too verbose and rambling, but maybe some of this helps paint a more accurate picture than what I’ve seen posted here and elsewhere. Not trying to ‘convert’ anyone, in fact it doesn’t really matter to me if anyone changes their opinion on Gentry, but I think it’s important to challenge the misinformation out there. Thanks again for your response.
No offense Puck8, but if you spent any time on this board prior to creating an account you should have known exactly what the general sentiment and behavior is here. I've been on the board for over 10 years now, and was a creeper for probably 3-4 years before that. I knew full well going into it that as a Hill grad and fan I was not going to get a lick of sympathy, empathy or understanding. The vast majority of people on this board want MN hockey to continue to be Mayberry-centric. Every kid needs to play for the community they grew up in. They can never leave high school early for other opportunities or development.
Hyperbole from either side of an argument never moves the ball forward. There are plenty of fans that are aware the cat is out of the bag. Hockey will never go back to 1 class (in fact it's far more likely to go to 3 classes than ever go back to 1), transfers happen, and private schools will never be limited to 1 section per class.

I think most fans don't begrudge privates nearly as much as a public schools that heavily relies upon transfers.

O-townClown
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Re: The Gentry Academy Thread

Post by O-townClown » Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:50 am

Hockeyxyz wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:41 am
What’s the purpose of MSHSL bylaw 308.00 solicitation of a student, if coaches and parents ignore it and MSHSL looks the other way? I have no interest in watching the “Minnesota State High School Hockey Tournament” anymore if it’s just a bunch of recruited players from all over the place. Just do away with the bylaw and call it what it is: Pre Juniors Hockey Club, instead of just pretending that recruiting isn’t happening. It’s just an open, dirty little secret.
I don't think violations occur that often. Players and their families make it known they are looking for a HS to attend. Kids in a tough spot will put their name in the transfer portal by initiating contact with others schools and coaches.

The warning for a parent and subsequent labeling them as a representative of the school is hard to police. MSHSL doesn't have the manpower to run sting operations to see how different schools will act. Most parents won't run to MSHSL when another parent who they've known from years of youth hockey talks to them about Johnny or Jenny.
Be kind. Rewind.

Hockeyxyz
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Re: The Gentry Academy Thread

Post by Hockeyxyz » Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:03 pm

You don’t think the violations occur all that often? How do you know that? But you’re right about the parents, it starts there because they think Johnny is the next Wayne Gretzky and has a shot at going D1 & NHL if he could just get a State Championship on his resume, so parents move their kids all over tarnation to try and accomplish that. Parents also recruit to try and get better players on the team with their Johnny, screwing over half the kids so that their own kid has a better chance to go to state. I know it’s happening starting in association hockey and it’s pathetic. Meanwhile some of the kids who grew up in the district playing hockey with their buddies while their parents spent thousands on fees every year get screwed over while the kids who transfer in arguably aren’t that much better. I’ve seen it over and over again. MSHSL knows about about it, but if they aren’t going to bother to police or enforce -at all- what’s the point of having any dumb bylaws? Furthermore, a hockey school like Gentry that recruits to get students has no business in MSHSL.

Puck8
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Re: The Gentry Academy Thread

Post by Puck8 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:08 pm

Hockeyxyz
So, let all of the schools that you have proof of recruiting violations continue in MSHSL, but Gentry, which you apparently have no proof of violations and is one of the, if not the most monitored schools, should be tossed. Got it.

bodyup88
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Re: The Gentry Academy Thread

Post by bodyup88 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:37 pm

Who is doing that monitoring, Puck8?

Hockeyxyz
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Re: The Gentry Academy Thread

Post by Hockeyxyz » Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:56 pm

Puck8, Why should I have to find proof of all of the violations? Not my job, I didn’t make up the bylaws, but I know of instances where it’s happening. Do I have recorded phone calls, no, but I know of things that happened and who was doing it, it’s common knowledge where I’m from. By all accounts Gentry has kids from half a dozen states, and everyone knows that schools like EP, Edina, South, etc recruit, but if you want to pretend it’s not happening, fine by me. I just don’t have that much interest in watching anymore for the reasons stated above.

O-townClown
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Re: The Gentry Academy Thread

Post by O-townClown » Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:54 pm

Hockeyxyz wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:56 pm
everyone knows that schools like EP, Edina, South, etc recruit,
You don't understand the difference between recruit and attract. Enjoy not watching.
Be kind. Rewind.

Puck8
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Re: The Gentry Academy Thread

Post by Puck8 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:11 pm

bodyup88 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:37 pm
Who is doing that monitoring, Puck8?
According to this board, all of you. There’s a never ending trail of recruiting accusations so I can only assume things are being watched intently.

Puck8
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Re: The Gentry Academy Thread

Post by Puck8 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:12 pm

O-townClown wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:54 pm
Hockeyxyz wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:56 pm
everyone knows that schools like EP, Edina, South, etc recruit,
You don't understand the difference between recruit and attract. Enjoy not watching.
Spot. On.
Homerun, OTC.

Puck8
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Re: The Gentry Academy Thread

Post by Puck8 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:19 pm

Hockeyxyz wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:56 pm
Puck8, Why should I have to find proof of all of the violations? Not my job, I didn’t make up the bylaws, but I know of instances where it’s happening. Do I have recorded phone calls, no, but I know of things that happened and who was doing it, it’s common knowledge where I’m from. By all accounts Gentry has kids from half a dozen states, and everyone knows that schools like EP, Edina, South, etc recruit, but if you want to pretend it’s not happening, fine by me. I just don’t have that much interest in watching anymore for the reasons stated above.
Why should you have to find proof? Well, generally that’s what one does prior to leveling accusations. I can’t speak to those schools that you call out, but if you have instances as you say, you should report them. I’m not pretending anything. I only care if my kid and my school is in compliance. I’m close enough to those entities to know they are.

Hockeyxyz
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Re: The Gentry Academy Thread

Post by Hockeyxyz » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:21 pm

I do, in fact, understand the difference between recruit and attract. Your heads are in the sand, but if you’re happy, keep on keepin’ on.

O-townClown
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Re: The Gentry Academy Thread

Post by O-townClown » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:26 pm

Hockeyxyz wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:21 pm
I do, in fact, understand the difference between recruit and attract. Your heads are in the sand, but if you’re happy, keep on keepin’ on.
It's funny to me you've had 4 posts using this screen name and lob such attacks. I know what schools do when they are contacted. First hand. I'm in enough rinks to know the Edina coaches aren't approaching kids or their parents as the allegation reads above.

Do I believe kids and parents talk about what could be all the time? Yes. I know it happens.
Be kind. Rewind.

Hockeyxyz
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Re: The Gentry Academy Thread

Post by Hockeyxyz » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:41 pm

Puck8, instances have been reported. I’m not lobbing attacks, just stating how it is at some schools. It’s unfortunate.

Puck8
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Re: The Gentry Academy Thread

Post by Puck8 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:48 pm

“Furthermore, a hockey school like Gentry that recruits to get students has no business in MSHSL.”

16 words with 2 wrong assumptions and 1 erroneous conclusion. But I don’t blame you, you’re just parroting what others have said here. But your quote pretty much sums up the sentiment of many. So let’s deal with that.

First - It is a school. But calling it a hockey school is cute and plays well among the haters who don’t want to look at the facts. Fact is that it must abide by MDE standards, and now that it’s a charter, it is even more tightly regulated, especially around admissions. It offers a unique option to incorporate athletics into the students’ electives. Any other school could do it if they so desired to put a program together.

Second - OTC summed up what I’ve been trying to convey. There is a difference between attracting and recruiting. The success of the hockey programs combined with the Leadership and small class environment while having classmates with similar drive and interests is very enticing. I hear how the school recruits “an all star team”. Really? How many of the kids on the roster had you heard of 3 years ago? 2 years ago? The start of this season? The coaches have developed the kids and team to an elite level. Of the rostered players, 14 are MN kids and/or played in MN youth growing up. 1 moved to MN 3 years ago, 1 is from Hudson and been with the school 5 years, 2 have been in the HS program for 2 years and 2 were part of the tier 1 team and decided to stay at this school. The narrative out there that there are 13, 11 or 9 out of state kids is flat out false.

Third - The school and the MSHSL worked very hard to ensure all aspects satisfied MSHSL standards and requirements. Nothing has changed relative to that. Like it or not, Gentry belongs in the MSHSL.

Bottom line, I don’t care one way or another if you like the school, but I will challenge when I see false information and/or flat out lies. That said, glad I could pipe in to provide some insight to the school.

bodyup88
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Re: The Gentry Academy Thread

Post by bodyup88 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:23 am

Puck8, you indicated that Gentry is one of the most, if not the most monitored schools in the state but you never educated people on who is doing that monitoring. Who, specifically, is doing that monitoring?

The other question I have is the WIN time ice. With whom are the students working during those 75 minute sessions during the school day and is that for an additional fee or built into the program? Thanks for your honest feedback.

Puck8
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Re: The Gentry Academy Thread

Post by Puck8 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:31 am

Body:

1) The MSHSL has been active to ensure compliance based on ongoing inquiries from the public. Probably as much as any successful school, but a great deal of work and collaboration went into establishing the program. For their work, we are appreciative.
2) I’m not joking when I say those here are part of it. There are many people digging to find something on the school. It’s all over this thread. Sometimes to a disturbing level.
3) General community. I’ll leave it at that.

As far as WIN time, there is a group of instructors that run that time. The high school coaches do not and are not allowed to train the team players on the ice. I heard the genius on KFAN say “They play by a different set of rules.” That’s simply false. Any school in MN could do WIN time if they wanted to. Gentry abides by the same rules as any HS. People simply do not like that they have created the opportunity to incorporate hockey into their electives - that distaste isn’t going to change because one guy on a forum explains the details.

Yes - there is a charge for the ice time, which is only fair. And it is less per hour than a supplemental training program with a third party. Personally, we haven’t had to do any outside training during the school year due to the effectiveness of WIN. Again, most kids do 1-3 sessions a week (available up to 5 times - and cost varies based on your per week option - few skate more than a few times per week) and they do schoolwork as needed rather than skate. Keep in mind - as a charter now, there is no tuition. The flip side is that enrollment is much more open.

And I just want to be clear, my purpose here is not to convert anyone to ‘like’ the school and I think it’s safe to say that the folks at the school have thick skin. I just appreciate the opportunity to challenge bad information. The issue with the bad information is that it leads to the vitriol we all see in the other channels. Criticism is one thing, the personal attacks on the character of families and the kids is another and deserves a little pushback/education. Thanks

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