Hill-Murray Update

The Latest 400 or so Topics

Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)

Nostalgic Nerd
Posts: 1308
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 7:16 pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Re: Hill-Murray Update

Post by Nostalgic Nerd » Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:13 am

Doc Holliday wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:39 am
I might be alone here, but I think this should count as another state quarterfinal loss for White Bear Lake.... :D
Winner. :lol:
I can splash in the rink puddles!

jdh
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:10 am

Re: Hill-Murray Update

Post by jdh » Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:52 am

jg2112 wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:43 am
jdh wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:40 am
Can someone explain to me why the League didn’t have a plan in place where the Section Runnersup would replace any Section winner who couldn’t participate due to COVID issues? It’s not like this COVID thing sprung up overnight.
Well, the Section runner up in this instance has a COVID positive player. And the Centennial girls' opponent in the Section final had close contact with an opponent (from Centennial). So I'm not sure how the runner up could take part.
If it wasnt the Runnerup that had the COVID positive player, they should be eligible.
,

InYourFace09
Posts: 479
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:35 pm

Re: Hill-Murray Update

Post by InYourFace09 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:42 am

jdh wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:52 am
jg2112 wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:43 am
jdh wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:40 am
Can someone explain to me why the League didn’t have a plan in place where the Section Runnersup would replace any Section winner who couldn’t participate due to COVID issues? It’s not like this COVID thing sprung up overnight.
Well, the Section runner up in this instance has a COVID positive player. And the Centennial girls' opponent in the Section final had close contact with an opponent (from Centennial). So I'm not sure how the runner up could take part.
If it wasnt the Runnerup that had the COVID positive player, they should be eligible.
,
Then the actual team should be able to play in your scenario since nobody tested positive on the current team :) :)

SEC Scotty
Posts: 923
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:58 am
Location: East Metro

Re: Hill-Murray Update

Post by SEC Scotty » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:42 am

blindref wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:06 am
I feel bad for all kids in activities that have been affected by Civi 19.

I feel much worse for my friend Dan Culhane’s family.
Dan passed away from Covid about a month ago.

Dan was an exceptional MSHSL and USA hockey referee who worked games in Minnesota for decades. Dan was also a local radio personality, husband, father and grandfather.

He was a recent cancer survivor who possibly contracted the virus in Carver county working games back in January.

You can google him to learn more about his story.

Hopefully the vaccines will greatly reduce stories like Dan’s from happening in the future.
RIP Dan

MedleyWR
Posts: 153
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:25 pm

Re: Hill-Murray Update

Post by MedleyWR » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:49 am

I sympathize with Hill Murray and other sports teams that are not allowed to compete. They earned this opportunity, only to have it snatched away through bureaucratic overreach, in my opinion. According to the CDC, in the under age 18 demographic, there have been 238 deaths "involving" Covid in 2020-2021 (through 3/24/21). This is from a population of approximately 40 million. The CDC estimates that the survival rate for under age 20 is 99.997%. Most know that it is the elderly and those with comorbidities (other existing health problems) that are most at risk. Yet, for this, we have seen diktats closing businesses, schools, churches - thus placing most of us in some form of quarantine. Other societal and health issues have exploded due to this, including addiction/overdose, mental health crises and domestic abuse. The MSHSL and MDH actions are consistent with the widely accepted governmental response to Covid. My question is "Should this response be widely accepted, or accepted at all?" Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease.
If you can't say something nice, don't say anything.

kpryan88
Posts: 214
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:06 pm

Re: Hill-Murray Update

Post by kpryan88 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:50 am

InYourFace09 wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:42 am
jdh wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:52 am
jg2112 wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:43 am


Well, the Section runner up in this instance has a COVID positive player. And the Centennial girls' opponent in the Section final had close contact with an opponent (from Centennial). So I'm not sure how the runner up could take part.
If it wasnt the Runnerup that had the COVID positive player, they should be eligible.
,
Then the actual team should be able to play in your scenario since nobody tested positive on the current team :) :)
Rumor, from a credible source, every kid on Hill’s roster was tested on Monday. 0 tests came back positive. Why can’t this be enough to let them play? These “guidelines” are a joke.

Sparlimb
Posts: 2491
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2002 7:11 am

Re: Hill-Murray Update

Post by Sparlimb » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:52 am

I think Hill and Hermantown should schedule an exhibition game on Saturday. Would be a fun one...

jg2112
Posts: 915
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:36 am

Re: Hill-Murray Update

Post by jg2112 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:09 pm

MedleyWR wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:49 am
I sympathize with Hill Murray and other sports teams that are not allowed to compete. They earned this opportunity, only to have it snatched away through bureaucratic overreach, in my opinion. According to the CDC, in the under age 18 demographic, there have been 238 deaths "involving" Covid in 2020-2021 (through 3/24/21). This is from a population of approximately 40 million. The CDC estimates that the survival rate for under age 20 is 99.997%. Most know that it is the elderly and those with comorbidities (other existing health problems) that are most at risk. Yet, for this, we have seen diktats closing businesses, schools, churches - thus placing most of us in some form of quarantine. Other societal and health issues have exploded due to this, including addiction/overdose, mental health crises and domestic abuse. The MSHSL and MDH actions are consistent with the widely accepted governmental response to Covid. My question is "Should this response be widely accepted, or accepted at all?" Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease.
Duly noted.

Rules are rules. Health is more important than youth sporting events.

slacsap
Posts: 150
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:30 am

Re: Hill-Murray Update

Post by slacsap » Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:19 pm

Pretty much everyone would have preferred that the game be decided by the players on the ice, but this did not happen and it is valid to ask why not. Hill, obviously, was willing to play the game on Thursday. Wayzata, by all accounts, was willing to play on Thursday. The other coaches in the tournament have said publicly that they are open to whatever accommodations would need to be made. The game could easily been played at the X Thursday morning before the girls' games without any other adjustments needed. So why wasn't the game moved to Thursday? Because MSHSL said "No". They may have had perfectly valid reasons for doing so, but we will never know because they don't explain the rationale for most of their decisions. Given the track record and history of MSHSL decision making, it is hard to give them the benefit of the doubt. I have worked with the MSHSL and found many of the people in leadership positions there to be among the most arrogant, inflexible and self-important people I have ever encountered. What I know of this case and, admittedly, much of what I know is second hand, only reinforced the opinion.

WBLPuck99
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:46 am

Re: Hill-Murray Update

Post by WBLPuck99 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:40 pm

Let me state first as a hockey fan, I feel horrible for the HM players and coaches. I wish there was a way to make this game happen. It sounds like there maybe was, I don't know. I don't work for the MSHSL so I can't really comment. It sounds like the cancellation of today's game is possibly an MDH call and whether the game could or could not be rescheduled per the MSHSL is not my call, and I'm glad it's not.

That being said, I wonder if we would be as up in arms if this were regular season and not the state tournament? I don't think you can make special rules for the state tournament. We saw teams not able to compete in sections because of similar issues so I don't really see a way around it.

The idea that WBL would intentionally sabotage the chance for HM to play in the state tournament is just sickening that people think it would be intentional. That would somehow indicate that the players, coaches, and AD were all complicit in this plot. Silly. I know players from last years team that were super happy for Charlie Strobel because they respected him so much. They wanted to make it to state last year, but were happy for several people on Hill that won because they play hockey with those guys in the off season, or even hang out with each other outside of school. That's usually part of what makes a rivalry, competing against friends.

I think there is some irony that Hill is the school involved. If people recall, earlier this year, players from Hill Murray's girls hockey team effectively shut down other schools programs for weeks by coming to school and playing hockey when they were, as the articles state, showing symptoms of COVID. That's where I think some of the arguments fall apart, especially the lawsuit. Should those other schools be allowed to accuse Hill Murray of irreparable harm because they (players) knowingly exposed other teams to the virus?

I think at the day we all wanted the state tournaments to go off without a hitch, but I think we are being naive if we thought it wasn't going to happen in at least one, more likely several teams in some way shape or form.

slacsap
Posts: 150
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:30 am

Re: Hill-Murray Update

Post by slacsap » Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:50 pm

WBLPuck99 wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:40 pm
Let me state first as a hockey fan, I feel horrible for the HM players and coaches. I wish there was a way to make this game happen. It sounds like there maybe was, I don't know. I don't work for the MSHSL so I can't really comment. It sounds like the cancellation of today's game is possibly an MDH call and whether the game could or could not be rescheduled per the MSHSL is not my call, and I'm glad it's not.

That being said, I wonder if we would be as up in arms if this were regular season and not the state tournament? I don't think you can make special rules for the state tournament. We saw teams not able to compete in sections because of similar issues so I don't really see a way around it.

The idea that WBL would intentionally sabotage the chance for HM to play in the state tournament is just sickening that people think it would be intentional. That would somehow indicate that the players, coaches, and AD were all complicit in this plot. Silly. I know players from last years team that were super happy for Charlie Strobel because they respected him so much. They wanted to make it to state last year, but were happy for several people on Hill that won because they play hockey with those guys in the off season, or even hang out with each other outside of school. That's usually part of what makes a rivalry, competing against friends.

I think there is some irony that Hill is the school involved. If people recall, earlier this year, players from Hill Murray's girls hockey team effectively shut down other schools programs for weeks by coming to school and playing hockey when they were, as the articles state, showing symptoms of COVID. That's where I think some of the arguments fall apart, especially the lawsuit. Should those other schools be allowed to accuse Hill Murray of irreparable harm because they (players) knowingly exposed other teams to the virus?

I think at the day we all wanted the state tournaments to go off without a hitch, but I think we are being naive if we thought it wasn't going to happen in at least one, more likely several teams in some way shape or form.
I agree that anyone who thinks White Bear intentionally concocted a player with a positive test, whether false or not, is way out of line. In addition, the girls' players at Hill-Murray who went to school and played in games behaved in an incredibly stupid and irresponsible manner. One important correction to your post however. MDH does not cancel games. They only make recommendations. The final decision on whether the game would be played was the MSHSL's, despite their ridiculous statement making it sound as though the decision of whether or not to play was entirely up to Hill-Murray.

jdh
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:10 am

Re: Hill-Murray Update

Post by jdh » Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:01 pm

kpryan88 wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:50 am
InYourFace09 wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:42 am
jdh wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:52 am


If it wasnt the Runnerup that had the COVID positive player, they should be eligible.
,
Then the actual team should be able to play in your scenario since nobody tested positive on the current team :) :)
Rumor, from a credible source, every kid on Hill’s roster was tested on Monday. 0 tests came back positive. Why can’t this be enough to let them play? These “guidelines” are a joke.
[/
I totally agree. There are so many inconsistencies with this COVID stuff. The High School dropped the ball big-time with this. Total idiots.

BobSaget
Posts: 204
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Hill-Murray Update

Post by BobSaget » Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:28 pm

kpryan88 wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:50 am
InYourFace09 wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:42 am
jdh wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:52 am


If it wasnt the Runnerup that had the COVID positive player, they should be eligible.
,
Then the actual team should be able to play in your scenario since nobody tested positive on the current team :) :)
Rumor, from a credible source, every kid on Hill’s roster was tested on Monday. 0 tests came back positive. Why can’t this be enough to let them play? These “guidelines” are a joke.
I was under the impression that you had moved on to baseball.

O-townClown
Posts: 4354
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:22 pm
Location: Typical homeboy from the O-Town

Re: Hill-Murray Update

Post by O-townClown » Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:39 pm

Sparlimb wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:52 am
I think Hill and Hermantown should schedule an exhibition game on Saturday. Would be a fun one...
Love this idea!
Be kind. Rewind.

Wise Old Man
Posts: 340
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:11 pm

Re: Hill-Murray Update

Post by Wise Old Man » Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:41 pm

MedleyWR wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:49 am
I sympathize with Hill Murray and other sports teams that are not allowed to compete. They earned this opportunity, only to have it snatched away through bureaucratic overreach, in my opinion. According to the CDC, in the under age 18 demographic, there have been 238 deaths "involving" Covid in 2020-2021 (through 3/24/21). This is from a population of approximately 40 million. The CDC estimates that the survival rate for under age 20 is 99.997%. Most know that it is the elderly and those with comorbidities (other existing health problems) that are most at risk. Yet, for this, we have seen diktats closing businesses, schools, churches - thus placing most of us in some form of quarantine. Other societal and health issues have exploded due to this, including addiction/overdose, mental health crises and domestic abuse. The MSHSL and MDH actions are consistent with the widely accepted governmental response to Covid. My question is "Should this response be widely accepted, or accepted at all?" Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease.

Medley...Specific to your point that “the cure can’t be worse than the disease”...I don’t think you’ve been present the last 12 months as the debate between those who believe in stronger restrictions being needed and those who question whether the “cure might be worse than the disease”, has occurred on these forums. If so, consider yourself lucky. 😉 The debate/discussion reached a point where the moderators basically banned any further discussion as it just wasn’t producing any movement in either side’s direction. 😎

Regardless, even those of us who support the “quarantines”/“lockdowns”/“restrictions”, understand and agree that those who generally end up suffering from severe illness or even death from Covid are those 65 and older. Vastly outnumbering those in the 12-18 yr old range. Nobody is arguing that point, specifically to those who end up with actual symptoms. Of course, that doesn’t account for the possible, long-term effects, along with even some short-term ones that even high level athletes have likely gotten from their Covid infections such as myocarditis. Both Alex Stalock and Rossi, the Wild’s first round pick last year, came down with myocarditis that was severe enough to require long layoffs to ensure proper recovery. And they have access to the absolute best medical care possible. The average youth, high school, or even college player does not.

Then, there is the likelihood of in game transmission between players from one team to another — which likely happened during the Wild’s outbreak — or, in the case of Dan Culhane, player to official. The point is, it’s not just about the risk of severe symptomatic illness to the players. Now, if you don’t feel the science is accurate in those situations, I’d like to hear your proof of that. Meaning, the MDH recommendations/restrictions are what they are.

To those unhappy with the MSHSL, they are simply following those recommendations. I realize some here don’t believe the MSHSL has consistently applied those recommendations. I disagree. I think it’s been very consistent. Which is why they aren’t willing to now make exception for Hill, despite Wayzata’s willingness to play tomorrow. If they allow it to happen and set a precedent, it means they have to allow the same opportunity moving forward and, might even open themselves up for litigation since they didn’t allow it previously.

We also need to keep in mind that the MSHSL only has so much staffing and, although there are likely numerous ice sheets available, you would need to try and coordinate all of the other game management aspects. Including ticket takers, ushers, a Covid coordinator, scorekeepers, penalty box attendants...just to name a few. Not to mention insuring the building is properly sanitized to their specifications. And no, they can’t just get parent volunteers. There is a likely requirement those people would need to be cleared through some type of background check/SafeSport-like process. It’s great Wayzata was willing to do what was needed to move the game. Unfortunately, it’s not nearly as simple to do as some believe.

Finally, the MSHL does need to own their lack of/and or poor communication regarding this situation. They’ve never been very good in this area and, they are proving it to be a weakness once again. They should want to own the narrative on this. If so, you should be aggressively communicating your side of the situation. They obviously aren’t doing that.

SEC Scotty
Posts: 923
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:58 am
Location: East Metro

Re: Hill-Murray Update

Post by SEC Scotty » Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:45 pm

Contact Jan Malcolm- Minnesota Department of Health
651-201-5180.

slacsap
Posts: 150
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:30 am

Re: Hill-Murray Update

Post by slacsap » Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:28 pm

Wise Old Man:
I agree with much of what you say in your most recent post. A couple of points I would offer, however.
1) I really don't see precedent being an issue here. Hopefully, we will not see another pandemic which will create an environment like we have had for the past year, so precedent will not exist.

2) There was no need to find another ice surface, arena staff, etc for Wayzata and Hill to play on Thursday. The game could have been played at the X at 9:00 AM before the start of the girls' semis.

You didn't actually say this, but the sentiment seems present given your last paragraph. Much of the controversy in this case, and several others over the years, could have beena voided if teh MSHSL would have done a better and more timely job of providing an explanation for their decisions. Maybe they'll learn from this incident.

East Side Pioneer Guy
Posts: 1347
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:43 pm

Re: Hill-Murray Update

Post by East Side Pioneer Guy » Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:01 pm

I largely agree wirh wise old man.

As far as playing at the X on Thursday at 9am, that wouldn't work. For some reason, mshsl keeps up the fallacy that the second game of the session starts 2 hours after the first, when it is more like 2:45, without overtime.

A 9:07 puck drop means the next two start times get bumped back. And the evening games need to be considered, too. I'd start a theoretical HM game by 8, if not earlier. If there is a multiple overtime game for one of the first 4 games, that game may need to be completed Friday morning, before the 11am game. I've seen plenty of 3 ot games over the years.
Hockey Is For Everyone

TheNightman
Posts: 650
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:41 pm

Re: Hill-Murray Update

Post by TheNightman » Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:40 pm

Why is this still being discussed? It's over and there are actual games happening. Move on with your lives.

East Side Pioneer Guy
Posts: 1347
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:43 pm

Re: Hill-Murray Update

Post by East Side Pioneer Guy » Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:44 pm

TheNightman wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:40 pm
Why is this still being discussed? It's over and there are actual games happening. Move on with your lives.
There are many facets to this. If you are no longer interested, don't bother to read this thread.
Hockey Is For Everyone

raidergrad72
Posts: 575
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:17 pm

Re: Hill-Murray Update

Post by raidergrad72 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:10 pm

East Side Pioneer Guy wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:44 pm
TheNightman wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:40 pm
Why is this still being discussed? It's over and there are actual games happening. Move on with your lives.
There are many facets to this. If you are no longer interested, don't bother to read this thread.
=D>

north_bear
Posts: 603
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:25 pm
Location: G.R.

Re: Hill-Murray Update

Post by north_bear » Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:18 pm

TheNightman wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:40 pm
Why is this still being discussed? It's over and there are actual games happening. Move on with your lives.
Somebody has to beat the horse! =D>
Thunderhawk Fanatic!!

Slap Shot
Posts: 946
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:44 pm

Re: Hill-Murray Update

Post by Slap Shot » Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:12 am

Stang5280 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:05 pm
Slap Shot wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:53 pm
thestickler07 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:16 pm


This whole episode has made me like HM a lot more - the MSHSL are a bunch of bums for trying to keep them out.
#-o
Yes, the MSHSL is specifically trying to keep one of its biggest brands, who also happen to be the defending champs, out of its crown jewel event. (Sarcasm, in case it wasn’t obvious)
They followed MDH guidelines - this isn't specifically about HM outside of the fact they're the unfortunate party.
thestickler07 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:28 pm
Slap Shot wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:53 pm
thestickler07 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:16 pm


This whole episode has made me like HM a lot more - the MSHSL are a bunch of bums for trying to keep them out.
#-o
I hope the High School League is paying you well to carry water for them. :lol:
I am not fan of them in the least.

Getitright
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:22 am

Re: Hill-Murray Update

Post by Getitright » Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:04 am

I mentioned this earlier but the main blame I have with the mshl is this:

Knowing what the mdh guidelines are, they should have revised all section schedules so they were completed in excess of 7 days prior to each class’ first tournament game. This would have reduced the risk of a COVID issue by 50%. This would totally remove any cross exposure issue. For not doing this they failed the kids. This would have eliminated any finger pointing. Both Hermantown and hill would then have been able to participate in the tourney as their non participation resulted from outside of their respective teams.

east hockey
Site Admin
Posts: 7267
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2002 8:33 pm
Location: Proctor, MN

Re: Hill-Murray Update

Post by east hockey » Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:09 am

north_bear wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:18 pm
TheNightman wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:40 pm
Why is this still being discussed? It's over and there are actual games happening. Move on with your lives.
Somebody has to beat the horse! =D>
True, but at some point Karl or I will have to rebury it in an undisclosed location

Lee
Message Board arsonist since 2005
Egomaniac since 2006

Post Reply