Section Realignment

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HSPuckFan
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Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:57 pm

Section Realignment

Post by HSPuckFan » Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:25 pm

I apologize if this question has already been asked recently,but can anyone tell me when the next major shake up in section alignment is slated to happen?
Go Zephyrs

goldy313
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Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2002 11:56 am

Re: Section Realignment

Post by goldy313 » Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:31 pm

This year. There is a thread about classification with a link to enrollments and what the class ranges are for each sport. Now they are hearing appeals, then they will put out the new sections.

HSPuckFan
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:57 pm

Re: Section Realignment

Post by HSPuckFan » Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:35 pm

Thank you good sir
Go Zephyrs

cjmhockey19
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:02 pm

Re: Section Realignment

Post by cjmhockey19 » Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:42 pm

They will release them April 15th

Lace'emUp
Posts: 359
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:37 am

Re: Section Realignment

Post by Lace'emUp » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:04 pm

goldy313 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:31 pm
This year. There is a thread about classification with a link to enrollments and what the class ranges are for each sport. Now they are hearing appeals, then they will put out the new sections.
Could you kindly post the thread link regarding classifications? I took a quick look around and it wasn't popping out at me. Thank you!

Stang5280
Posts: 1955
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:12 pm

Re: Section Realignment

Post by Stang5280 » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:08 pm

Lace'emUp wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:04 pm
goldy313 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:31 pm
This year. There is a thread about classification with a link to enrollments and what the class ranges are for each sport. Now they are hearing appeals, then they will put out the new sections.
Could you kindly post the thread link regarding classifications? I took a quick look around and it wasn't popping out at me. Thank you!
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=38345

(I posted it originally)

Lace'emUp
Posts: 359
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:37 am

Re: Section Realignment

Post by Lace'emUp » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:16 pm

Stang5280 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:08 pm
Lace'emUp wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:04 pm
goldy313 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:31 pm
This year. There is a thread about classification with a link to enrollments and what the class ranges are for each sport. Now they are hearing appeals, then they will put out the new sections.
Could you kindly post the thread link regarding classifications? I took a quick look around and it wasn't popping out at me. Thank you!
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=38345

(I posted it originally)
Thank you!

Eagles93
Posts: 483
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 5:04 pm

Re: Section Realignment

Post by Eagles93 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:53 am

If this realignment is actually true, there's quite a bit of shakeup of the sections:

Cretin-Derham Hall -> 3AA
Gentry -> 4AA
Maple Grove -> 6AA
4AA and 5AA shaken up a bit

5AA becomes easiest section.
6AA will be a brutal section.

https://twitter.com/YouthHockeyHub/stat ... 7332444166

O-townClown
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Location: Typical homeboy from the O-Town

Re: Section Realignment

Post by O-townClown » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:58 am

Wow. The things that I would have done like putting Rosemount or Prior Lake in 1 and diluting 2 & 6 a bit by shutting a team into 3 & 5 are exactly the opposite of what happened.

Southwest Metro suburban hockey is far and away the state’s best and MSHSL doesn’t want to see much representation at state.
Be kind. Rewind.

bardown27
Posts: 891
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:20 am

Re: Section Realignment

Post by bardown27 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:18 am

Things that could really shake this up in both classes:

DC, Tartan, and A/C petitioning back down.
Waconia not listed on either A or AA "leak".

DC petitions down, could easily move PL into 1AA.
Tartan petitions down, puts 4AA with 7 teams, could slide Roseville back into 4AA.
A/C petitions down, probably leaves 6AA how it is (unfortunately).

DC into 1AA gives 1A 12 teams.
Same with A/C, puts 2A with 12 teams
Same with Tartan, puts 4A with 12 teams.

Until everything is set. I'm taking these "leaks" with a ton of salt.

O-townClown
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Location: Typical homeboy from the O-Town

Re: Section Realignment

Post by O-townClown » Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:42 am

bardown27 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:18 am
I'm taking these "leaks" with a ton of salt.
Great assessment.

I think it should be pretty easy to get this section together:
  • Benilde
    Chaska
    Eden Prairie
    Edina
    Holy Family
    Maple Grove
    Minnetonka
    Wayzata
After all, these towns are right next to each other.
Be kind. Rewind.

Sparlimb
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Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2002 7:11 am

Re: Section Realignment

Post by Sparlimb » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:49 pm

O-townClown wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:58 am
Wow. The things that I would have done like putting Rosemount or Prior Lake in 1 and diluting 2 & 6 a bit by shutting a team into 3 & 5 are exactly the opposite of what happened.

Southwest Metro suburban hockey is far and away the state’s best and MSHSL doesn’t want to see much representation at state.
Sections have always been regional. So I didn't expect that to change. And obviously they can't put each Lake team in a different section to try and fill out some people's dream tourneys. Hot teams come and go. Maple Grove is fairly new to being a power. Blaine has fallen off some but would expect them back.

O-townClown
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Location: Typical homeboy from the O-Town

Re: Section Realignment

Post by O-townClown » Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:26 pm

Sparlimb wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:49 pm
Sections have always been regional.
I understand it is the state tournament with regional representation and not a Great 8. HOWEVER, where the lines are drawn is fluid and we've seen Jefferson/Kennedy in a different section from Edina/Richfield/Minnetonka, Elk River/Andover with Grand Rapids/Duluth, and Hill/Cretin/St. Thomas all able to reach the state tournament because they are in different sections.

What has been posted goes out of its way to overload 2 & 6 while keeping some of the others like 1 real weak, all the while softening 5 for no apparent reason.

Moorhead has been to something like 20 straight section finals. Wayzata, on the other hand, just reached the state semis a year after bombing out in 6AA QF.

Hill-Murray's section is a joke. Kivihalme had some really good teams at Burnsville and never advanced to the state tournament because of how unbalanced assignments are. Yet one of the Lakevilles can go every year, even when they aren't any good. You know "sections can remain regional" and still offer some semblance of a challenge for all the metro teams. It does not appear that any leveling will occur. 5 is a total farce.
Be kind. Rewind.

Green and White Fan
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Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2002 3:51 pm

Re: Section Realignment

Post by Green and White Fan » Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:42 pm

It sounds to me like some people would like to just pick the state tournament. Sections should be aligned with some geography in mind and if the best 8 are in one section on a given year, then so be it. Certainly don't put teams in weaker sections to give a better team in a tougher section a chance to advance. There is already, in my opinion, too much tinkering with the advent of seeding the tournament. If you want to have your dream tournament do it through a Holiday invite.
We've got 7 yes we do, we've got 7, how about you!

Slap Shot
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Re: Section Realignment

Post by Slap Shot » Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:55 pm

O-townClown wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:42 am
bardown27 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:18 am
I'm taking these "leaks" with a ton of salt.
Great assessment.

I think it should be pretty easy to get this section together:
  • Benilde
    Chaska
    Eden Prairie
    Edina
    Holy Family
    Maple Grove
    Minnetonka
    Wayzata
After all, these towns are right next to each other.
For the most part they are, although Chaska to Maple Grove is a bit of a hike. Hopkins would make more sense than Maple Grove, never mind their being in the same section as CDH.

jg2112
Posts: 915
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Re: Section Realignment

Post by jg2112 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:12 pm

Green and White Fan wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:42 pm
It sounds to me like some people would like to just pick the state tournament. Sections should be aligned with some geography in mind and if the best 8 are in one section on a given year, then so be it. Certainly don't put teams in weaker sections to give a better team in a tougher section a chance to advance. There is already, in my opinion, too much tinkering with the advent of seeding the tournament. If you want to have your dream tournament do it through a Holiday invite.
I would argue there's no reason to have Sections at all.

Pick the top 64 teams and build the tournament.

Use the A / AA format for regular season matchups only. Be sure private / charter schools all play AA.

Create a proper tournament structure and allow certain poor AA teams the chance to meaningfully compete in the postseason, not just take their place as annual running-time cannon fodder.

O-townClown
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Location: Typical homeboy from the O-Town

Re: Section Realignment

Post by O-townClown » Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:35 pm

Green and White Fan wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:42 pm
Sections should be aligned with some geography in mind and if the best 8 are in one section on a given year, then so be it.
It's not "a given year" but rather every year.

At one point the best hockey was in the north so they had a "back door" to let in another team that didn't win its section. Early 2000s it was in the NW suburbs when Anoka, Blaine, Centennial & Elk River were all strong programs. Now it is in the SW suburbs with 4 of the Top 15 teams every year in 6 and another 3 in 2. This isn't a random event. It's chronic, and will continue.

How about this? Merge 7 & 8 so there's always a northern entrant, but never more than one. Move the outlying metro teams like Andover, Forest Lake, St. Michael, etc... into the six sections allocated to where people actually live and the hockey is strong. Take out the decent teams like Lakeville & Hastings from 1 so we always have a southern entrant, even though they'll get rolled until Rochester condenses down to one hockey program.

The six metro sections could be sliced like a pie or a clock. One clustered around (going clockwise from the NW) 11, 1, 4, 6, 7 & 9.

Anyone can say whatever. Just don't act like it isn't possible to draw lines differently, still retain geographic integrity, and at least try to balance out sections so "making it to state" is reserved for teams that actually have a chance to do something once they get there.
Be kind. Rewind.

SpreadOut!
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Re: Section Realignment

Post by SpreadOut! » Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:24 pm

Who determines section assignments? The MSHSL itself? Who makes final decision? What would be the new Section 6AA under this leaked scenario is obscene. Maple Grove and Edina are arguably the top two youth programs in the state, and add in Wayzata, and you have the three largest youth programs in the state (country?) competing in the same high school section. This year, Wayzata beat Osseo-Maple Grove in the Bantam AA state championship game in OT (Osseo-Maple Grove beat Edina in the state tourney quarterfinal). At Peewee AA, Edina beat Osseo-Maple Grove in the state championship game. Putting all three of these teams in the same section is asinine, as some (many?) years the section final would be the de facto state championship game. And 5AA without Maple Grove would be an absolute joke. Blaine is way down at the youth level, and Centennial is hit or miss. The state tourney was be ridiculously diluted if this leaked scenario becomes reality.

TheNightman
Posts: 650
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:41 pm

Re: Section Realignment

Post by TheNightman » Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:45 pm

Maple Grove to 6 would be a huge mistake. Cretin to 3 would be nice though. The rest isn't much to get worked up about IMO.

O-townClown
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Re: Section Realignment

Post by O-townClown » Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:16 pm

SpreadOut! wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:24 pm
What would be the new Section 6AA under this leaked scenario is obscene. Maple Grove and Edina are arguably the top two youth programs in the state, and add in Wayzata, and you have the three largest youth programs in the state (country?) competing in the same high school section.
Maybe the initial run had one team whose placement was so egregious allowing an obvious adjustment after the appeals are heard as a way to have MSHSL look good by taking input from its member schools.
Be kind. Rewind.

Browniemagoo
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Re: Section Realignment

Post by Browniemagoo » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:15 pm

Cretin being in any section other than 4 is incorrect.

ROSEVILLEHOCKEYDAD
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Re: Section Realignment

Post by ROSEVILLEHOCKEYDAD » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:21 pm

Proposed

2021-2022 & 2022-2023 Section 6A Boys Hockey

Fergus Falls
Alexandria
Willmar
River Lakes
Wadena
Northern Lakes
Breckenridge
Morris

Stang5280
Posts: 1955
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:12 pm

Re: Section Realignment

Post by Stang5280 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:53 pm

ROSEVILLEHOCKEYDAD wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:21 pm
Proposed

2021-2022 & 2022-2023 Section 6A Boys Hockey

Fergus Falls
Alexandria
Willmar
River Lakes
Wadena
Northern Lakes
Breckenridge
Morris
That’s about what I expected given the rumors, but still is a bit jolting to see written out. It makes more sense geographically, but is pretty weak sauce competitively. Fergus and Alex are set up to dominate. 5A will probably be the deeper and more competitive section now.

karl(east)
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Contact:

Re: Section Realignment

Post by karl(east) » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:14 pm

It's not perfect, of course, but I do sort of like the leaked A alignment. 6A may be a bit top-heavy, but the competitive balance across it and 5A is a clear improvement over where we were. And I think some people are inflating how good Litch and Hutch were, and the implications of their move to 2A. Based on PageStat ratings over the past 5 years or so, sliding the Mankatos (plus a MN River team that has gone to state recently) over to take Litch and Hutch's place may have actually made 3A stronger, and getting Northfield and New Prague (plus the wild card of Winona Cotter) arguably makes 1A stronger than it was when it had the Mankatos. It's unfortunate for Litch and Hutch, who may no longer have the easy path to State they had in 3A, but it does make decent geographic and conference sense to have them in 2A, and they had a pretty cushy situation there, all things considered. I'm pretty content with the changes in Class A.

Class AA...well, I'm glad to see Cretin potentially in a section that makes more geographic sense and brings back their historic rivalry with St. Thomas. The new 6AA and 5AA are pretty gross, though, for opposite reasons. Anywhere else, there are changes that might have been nice, but nothing worth getting worked up about.

Even if this is accurate today, I'm guessing we'll see some continued movement as a few co-ops and such petition to move down.

Stang5280
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Re: Section Realignment

Post by Stang5280 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:28 pm

One thing that struck me up north is Duluth Marshall continuing to opt up to AA. Wise has proven to be an excellent coach (and at the college level, to boot), and I’m sure they have longer term visions, but I figured DM would be tired of taking beatings and drop back down for a while to gain some traction.

Any thoughts, Karl (or others)?

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