3 class system

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elliott70
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3 class system

Post by elliott70 » Tue Mar 01, 2022 1:15 pm

These top 32 teams play for the AAA championship
All seeded by pagestat top 32 teams.

Section Play
Section 1
1 HILL MURRAY vs ST MICHAEL ALBERTVILLE
16 WARROAD vs St Thomas

Section 2
8 WAYZATA vs STILLWATER
9 GRAND RAPIDS vs WHITE BEAR LAKE

Section 3
4 BENILDE ST MARG vs HOLY ANGELS
13 CENTENNIAL vs PRIOR LAKE

Section 4
5 EDINA vs HASTINGS
12 LAKEVILLE SOUTH vs GENTRY ACADEMY

Section 5
2 CRETIN DERHAM HALL vs CHANHASSEN
15 EDEN PRAIRIE vs ROGERS

Section 6
6 HERMANTOWN vs MAHTOMEDI
7 ANDOVER vs CHAMPLIN PARK

Section 7
3 MAPLE GROVE vs BLAKE
14 MINNETONKA vs CHASKA

Section 8
10 MOORHEAD vs ELK RIVER
11 ROSEAU vs LAKEVILLE NORTH

elliott70
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Re: 3 class system

Post by elliott70 » Tue Mar 01, 2022 1:17 pm

Class AA
Organized geographically and section play-off

BLAINE 7AA 12 8 4 0.583 89 84 18.89
34 HOLY FAMILY 2AA 12 13 0 0.480 86 85 18.72
35 ROSEMOUNT 3AA 10 13 1 0.438 74 75 18.70
36 EASTVIEW 3AA 14 10 0 0.583 73 64 18.62
37 TOTINO GRACE 5AA 9 15 1 0.380 70 80 18.15
38 DELANO 2A 18 6 0 0.750 91 51 18.15
39 BUFFALO 8AA 10 14 0 0.417 62 91 17.83
40 DULUTH DENFELD 7A 17 8 0 0.680 116 81 17.82
41 MINNEAPOLIS 2A 18 6 1 0.740 99 60 17.54
42 DULUTH EAST 7AA 7 17 1 0.300 65 103 17.51
43 SHAKOPEE 2AA 12 11 1 0.521 87 90 17.46
44 WOODBURY 4AA 13 11 0 0.542 86 87 17.29
45 ALEXANDRIA 6A 16 6 2 0.708 101 66 17.26
46 ROCHESTER MAYO 1AA 15 5 3 0.717 128 49 17.11
47 FOREST LAKE 7AA 12 12 1 0.500 103 98 17.10
48 SARTELL 8AA 15 10 0 0.600 110 71 17.04
49 NORTHFIELD 1A 18 5 1 0.771 117 49 17.02
50 LITTLE FALLS 5A 20 4 1 0.820 142 68 17.00
51 THIEF RIVER FALLS 8A 14 11 0 0.560 92 73 16.93
52 ORONO 2A 11 12 1 0.479 75 67 16.90
53 PROVIDENCE ACADEMY 2A 18 6 1 0.740 137 76 16.88
54 TARTAN 4AA 14 9 1 0.604 96 71 16.84
55 MOUNDS VIEW 5AA 7 16 1 0.313 78 104 16.70
56 ST LOUIS PARK 6AA 11 13 1 0.460 71 85 16.64
57 EAST GRAND FORKS 8A 8 16 0 0.333 82 106 16.63
58 PARK (C.G.) 3AA 13 10 1 0.563 89 93 16.61
59 EAGAN 3AA 9 15 0 0.375 65 89 16.57
60 BEMIDJI 8AA 8 15 2 0.360 63 95 16.36
61 CLOQUET 7AA 7 16 2 0.320 52 109 16.36
62 FERGUS FALLS 6A 16 9 0 0.640 107 66 16.34
63 APPLE VALLEY 3AA 6 16 2 0.292 69 92 16.33
64 ROCK RIDGE 7A 14 10 1 0.580 93 58 16.28
65 DETROIT LAKES 8A 17 4 2 0.783 118 37 16.26
66 FARMINGTON 1AA 8 14 1 0.370 53 87 16.21
67 CHISAGO LAKES 4A 19 4 1 0.813 135 61 16.03
68 ST CLOUD_ 8AA 7 15 3 0.340 60 80 16.03
69 BLOOM JEFFERSON 2AA 10 15 0 0.400 62 85 16.00
70 ROBB ARMSTRONG/COOPER 6AA 7 15 3 0.340 73 118 15.99
71 SPRING LAKE PARK 5AA 12 13 0 0.480 107 128 15.95
72 SIMLEY 4A 17 8 1 0.673 106 63 15.87
73 LITCHFIELD 2A 16 8 1 0.660 105 77 15.53
74 EAST RIDGE 4AA 8 16 1 0.340 55 99 15.51
75 ST CLOUD CATHEDRAL 5A 12 12 0 0.500 72 73 15.31
76 MOUND WESTONKA 2A 11 13 1 0.460 91 98 15.18
77 COON RAPIDS 7AA 10 15 0 0.400 82 127 15.08
78 BRAINERD 8AA 5 18 2 0.240 50 122 15.06
79 ROSEVILLE 4AA 10 14 1 0.420 76 106 15.05
80 MANKATO EAST 3A 13 10 1 0.563 87 64 15.04
81 ANOKA 7AA 9 16 0 0.360 60 122 15.00
82 CAMBRIDGE 5A 17 7 1 0.700 102 62 14.95
83 HIBBING 7A 12 13 0 0.480 81 70 14.90
84 SOUTHWEST CHRISTIAN/RICHFIELD 2A 10 13 2 0.440 65 85 14.89
85 MONTICELLO 5A 10 14 1 0.420 81 83 14.88
86 OWATONNA 1AA 9 14 1 0.396 68 80 14.88
87 RED LAKE FALLS 8A 16 7 1 0.688 137 64 14.86
88 OSSEO 5AA 4 19 2 0.200 51 123 14.81
89 BRECK_ 2A 8 16 0 0.333 62 88 14.78
90 HOPKINS 6AA 6 18 0 0.250 58 120 14.69
91 PROCTOR 7A 16 8 1 0.660 81 61 14.68
92 DODGE COUNTY 1AA 15 9 0 0.625 115 77 14.58
93 GREENWAY 7A 12 11 0 0.522 87 81 14.43
94 ROCHESTER CENTURY 1AA 11 10 1 0.523 89 79 14.37
95 NEW PRAGUE 1A 8 14 2 0.375 67 91 14.31
96 RIVER LAKES

elliott70
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Re: 3 class system

Post by elliott70 » Tue Mar 01, 2022 1:20 pm

Class A
remaining 52 teams
organized into 8 sections by geography with some having six and som having 7 teams and seeded by page stat.

97 ROCHESTER LOURDES 1A 18 6 0 0.750 102 52 13.98
98 HUTCHINSON 2A 10 14 1 0.420 86 107 13.92
99 MORA 5A 18 5 2 0.760 138 68 13.89
100 NORTHERN LAKES 6A 14 10 0 0.583 125 93 13.78
101 DULUTH MARSHALL 7AA 7 17 1 0.300 63 107 13.72
102 NEW ULM 3A 19 6 0 0.760 112 58 13.61
103 BLOOM KENNEDY 2A 6 17 1 0.271 60 121 13.56
104 WACONIA 2A 5 19 1 0.220 71 140 13.49
105 TWO RIVERS 4A 10 13 1 0.438 72 95 13.33
106 IRONDALE 5AA 5 17 2 0.250 56 116 13.32
107 BURNSVILLE 3AA 0 22 2 0.042 29 149 13.21
108 PRINCETON 5A 10 15 0 0.400 86 96 13.19
109 ALBERT LEA 1A 17 7 0 0.708 102 60 12.84
110 ST PAUL ACADEMY 4A 8 16 1 0.340 51 100 12.72
111 NORTHERN EDGE 7AA 6 18 1 0.260 75 96 12.64
112 SAUK RAPIDS 5A 6 19 0 0.240 80 126 12.58
113 ST PAUL HIGHLAND PARK 4A 9 14 1 0.396 53 82 12.39
114 WADENA 6A 14 11 0 0.560 94 103 12.38
115 PINE CITY 5A 8 17 0 0.320 100 109 12.37
116 SOUTH ST PAUL 4A 6 19 0 0.240 38 116 11.95
117 ST PAUL JOHNSON 4A 6 15 1 0.295 35 76 11.62
118 ROCHESTER J.M. 1AA 8 15 0 0.348 73 103 11.61
119 LUVERNE 3A 14 10 0 0.583 104 75 11.50
120 MORRIS/BENSON 6A 13 11 1 0.540 106 94 11.50
121 RED WING 1A 9 15 0 0.375 67 84 11.41
122 PARK RAPIDS 8A 10 14 1 0.420 95 98 11.22
123 KITTSON CENTRAL 8A 8 15 1 0.354 90 121 11.20
124 LAKE OF THE WOODS 8A 8 12 1 0.405 67 86 11.20
125 BAGLEY 8A 13 11 1 0.540 99 89 11.11
126 CROOKSTON 8A 6 17 1 0.271 62 160 11.10
127 INTERNATIONAL FALLS 7A 7 17 0 0.292 80 118 11.10
128 MARSHALL_ 3A 14 11 0 0.560 101 83 11.07
129 WINDOM 3A 11 13 1 0.460 96 80 10.95
130 LA CRESCENT 1A 13 10 1 0.563 112 109 10.78
131 MANKATO WEST 3A 7 17 0 0.292 66 126 10.71
132 FARIBAULT 1A 10 14 0 0.417 82 111 10.68
133 MINNEHAHA ACADEMY 4AA 1 22 0 0.043 39 143 10.11
134 NORTH SHORE 7A 6 18 0 0.250 49 110 9.74
135 WILLMAR 6A 5 19 0 0.208 63 138 9.74
136 WORTHINGTON 3A 12 12 0 0.500 94 83 9.72
137 WINONA_ 1A 9 14 1 0.396 85 134 9.66
138 PRAIRIE CENTRE 6A 8 17 0 0.320 82 152 9.26
139 MINNESOTA RIVER 3A 5 19 1 0.220 61 114 9.22
140 ELY 7A 4 18 1 0.196 59 113 8.37
141 BECKER BIG LAKE 5A 4 20 0 0.167 69 182 8.36
142 FAIRMONT 3A 8 16 0 0.333 95 155 8.15
143 WASECA 1A 5 16 1 0.250 72 129 8.15
144 AUSTIN 1A 1 19 0 0.050 21 156 6.18
145 MOOSE LAKE 7A 2 19 1 0.114 34 169 5.77
146 REDWOOD VALLEY 3A 2 19 0 0.095 30 142 5.39
147 WINONA COTTER 1A 0 10 0 0.000 10 81 4.66
148 BRECKENRIDGE

Green and White Fan
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Re: 3 class system

Post by Green and White Fan » Tue Mar 01, 2022 1:44 pm

I like it!
We've got 7 yes we do, we've got 7, how about you!

Corn Cobb
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Re: 3 class system

Post by Corn Cobb » Tue Mar 01, 2022 2:08 pm

Tier 1/2/3???? General sentiment was the tier system was a failure when implemented by the MSHSL in the early 90's.

elliott70
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Re: 3 class system

Post by elliott70 » Tue Mar 01, 2022 2:23 pm

Corn Cobb wrote:
Tue Mar 01, 2022 2:08 pm
Tier 1/2/3???? General sentiment was the tier system was a failure when implemented by the MSHSL in the early 90's.
YES BUT THAT WAS TWO TIERS.
THIS IS 3 CLASSES.

SO IT SHOULD BE ONE AND A HALF LESS SUCKEE.

StanleyCup55
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Re: 3 class system

Post by StanleyCup55 » Tue Mar 01, 2022 2:30 pm

So are you saying each team gets ranked each year? So if you have a good year you’ll be in AAA then a down year the next year you’re in AA or A? That would make sense. Not sure who or why the tier 1/2 system made people upset because of the ranking but it makes perfect sense. You’ll get good competitive games at state not 12-0 blowouts where the losing team has 3 shots on goal. And would eliminate the sandbaggers. 3 classes ranked each year makes sense to me.

BlueLineSpecial
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Re: 3 class system

Post by BlueLineSpecial » Tue Mar 01, 2022 6:27 pm

I would fully support something like this. I like the idea that, regardless of the size of the student body or where you start the season ranked, you end up in 1 of 3 classes completely based on the results of your season.

Some on the board have recently implied Roseau could/should discontinue opting up, for example. This becomes irrelevant with a model like the suggested. If you're a tiny town like Roseau and you have a great year, you may end up playing in the AAA class, but if you have a down year you may find yourself playing in the AA class. This solves the conundrum of whether to opt up, opt down. There is no more consternation around privates staying in A or powers like Hermantown not opting up even thought they could/should.
The City of Hill Murray is beautiful this time of year

Joe2015
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Re: 3 class system

Post by Joe2015 » Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:13 am

I dont think we need a 3-class system: I think we just need to make the 2-class system work better. I think we should remember why the class system was adopted across the high school sports landscape: it was NOT so programs like Hermantown could trophy chase each season. The reason was to give the little guys a shot: programs that would never have a chance under a one-class system.

So here is my proposal that uses a promotion/relegation system that would push programs into their appropriate class over time:
Divide the state into 8 sections (so about 18 or 19 in each section)
For the first year, we would just go based of enrollment: top 9 start the first year in Class AA for that section, the rest in Class A
At the end of the season, the section gets seeded 1 thru 9: I would advocate for some sort of computer ranking system here, as a coaches vote could get very political as teams lobby to stay out of this game.

And here is why it is important who is seeded into that game:
The winner of that 8/9 seed game would move on to the quarterfinals as usual to face the #1 seed
However, the loser of that game would get relegated to Class A for the following season
They would then be replaced by the team that won that respective section in Class A (that team gets promoted up)

So after a few seasons, the programs with lower enrollments that really belong in AA would work their way up, why the teams that belong in A will get pushed down.

GopherHockey
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Re: 3 class system

Post by GopherHockey » Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:48 am

Joe2015 wrote:
Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:13 am
I dont think we need a 3-class system: I think we just need to make the 2-class system work better. I think we should remember why the class system was adopted across the high school sports landscape: it was NOT so programs like Hermantown could trophy chase each season. The reason was to give the little guys a shot: programs that would never have a chance under a one-class system.

So here is my proposal that uses a promotion/relegation system that would push programs into their appropriate class over time:
Divide the state into 8 sections (so about 18 or 19 in each section)
For the first year, we would just go based of enrollment: top 9 start the first year in Class AA for that section, the rest in Class A
At the end of the season, the section gets seeded 1 thru 9: I would advocate for some sort of computer ranking system here, as a coaches vote could get very political as teams lobby to stay out of this game.

And here is why it is important who is seeded into that game:
The winner of that 8/9 seed game would move on to the quarterfinals as usual to face the #1 seed
However, the loser of that game would get relegated to Class A for the following season
They would then be replaced by the team that won that respective section in Class A (that team gets promoted up)

So after a few seasons, the programs with lower enrollments that really belong in AA would work their way up, why the teams that belong in A will get pushed down.
Class A would be brutal, in this scenario.

BodyShots
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Re: 3 class system

Post by BodyShots » Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:46 am

I like Elliott’s idea, but not sure if pagestat wants the responsibility and pressure.

East Side Pioneer Guy
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Re: 3 class system

Post by East Side Pioneer Guy » Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:15 pm

Send everyone a trophy at the beginning of the season. They can send it back in March if they think they didn't deserve it.
No coach, no team
No ref, no game

Goose21
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Re: 3 class system

Post by Goose21 » Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:30 pm

I am in favor of a 3 class system simply because I don’t believe their are 2 levels/tiers/classes across the state. I think there is a group of true AA programs which is now metro powers and Moorhead. What could be a really competitive group of current lower AA and Top A. And then the rest of A which are true small schools/non traditional hockey programs.

While there are a number of good ideas that could make a 3 class system optimal, the main factor is the mshsl. In order for them to buy in, I believe the format would have to be the traditional enrollment and geographical sections.
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east hockey
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Re: 3 class system

Post by east hockey » Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:26 pm

BodyShots wrote:
Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:46 am
I like Elliott’s idea, but not sure if pagestat wants the responsibility and pressure.
Not a problem. I'll just cut out the lowest class. :mrgreen:

Given the contraction underway over the past several years in the State, I don't see the State League approving an increase in classes. But then, they've done stupid things before.

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Nostalgic Nerd
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Re: 3 class system

Post by Nostalgic Nerd » Wed Mar 02, 2022 5:54 pm

Great, now hockey's class system is looking more football. :mrgreen:
I can splash in the rink puddles!

jdh
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Re: 3 class system

Post by jdh » Fri Mar 04, 2022 4:11 am

Nostalgic Nerd wrote:
Wed Mar 02, 2022 5:54 pm
Great, now hockey's class system is looking more football. :mrgreen:
Let’s give them all a Championship trophy and forget playing.

Puckguy19
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Re: 3 class system

Post by Puckguy19 » Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:19 am

elliott70 wrote:
Tue Mar 01, 2022 1:15 pm
These top 32 teams play for the AAA championship
All seeded by pagestat top 32 teams.

Section Play
Section 1
1 HILL MURRAY vs ST MICHAEL ALBERTVILLE
16 WARROAD vs St Thomas

Section 2
8 WAYZATA vs STILLWATER
9 GRAND RAPIDS vs WHITE BEAR LAKE

Section 3
4 BENILDE ST MARG vs HOLY ANGELS
13 CENTENNIAL vs PRIOR LAKE

Section 4
5 EDINA vs HASTINGS
12 LAKEVILLE SOUTH vs GENTRY ACADEMY

Section 5
2 CRETIN DERHAM HALL vs CHANHASSEN
15 EDEN PRAIRIE vs ROGERS

Section 6
6 HERMANTOWN vs MAHTOMEDI
7 ANDOVER vs CHAMPLIN PARK

Section 7
3 MAPLE GROVE vs BLAKE
14 MINNETONKA vs CHASKA

Section 8
10 MOORHEAD vs ELK RIVER
11 ROSEAU vs LAKEVILLE NORTH
Section 6 & 8 may take issue with bracket integrity.

East Side Pioneer Guy
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Re: 3 class system

Post by East Side Pioneer Guy » Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:54 am

jdh wrote:
Fri Mar 04, 2022 4:11 am
Nostalgic Nerd wrote:
Wed Mar 02, 2022 5:54 pm
Great, now hockey's class system is looking more football. :mrgreen:
Let’s give them all a Championship trophy and forget playing.
Make sure it's a foam trophy, with no sharp edges.
No coach, no team
No ref, no game

The51
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Re: 3 class system

Post by The51 » Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:24 am

I don't hate this idea overall of getting a third level (Don't think we would ever need anything more than that).

I just think you'd have to have it split up before the season or in some way that wasn't based on the current seasons results. In your example Blaine would go from the favorite in the second group to the worst team in the first if they had won one more game.. make the groupings defined before the season and I'm in
State Champs '81 '89 '92 '93 '94

elliott70
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Re: 3 class system

Post by elliott70 » Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:59 am

The51 wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:24 am
I don't hate this idea overall of getting a third level (Don't think we would ever need anything more than that).

I just think you'd have to have it split up before the season or in some way that wasn't based on the current seasons results. In your example Blaine would go from the favorite in the second group to the worst team in the first if they had won one more game.. make the groupings defined before the season and I'm in

Well since it is a fantasy, okay.

Joe2015
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Re: 3 class system

Post by Joe2015 » Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:38 am

The51 wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:24 am
I don't hate this idea overall of getting a third level (Don't think we would ever need anything more than that).

I just think you'd have to have it split up before the season or in some way that wasn't based on the current seasons results. In your example Blaine would go from the favorite in the second group to the worst team in the first if they had won one more game.. make the groupings defined before the season and I'm in
Yeah, you have to define the groups/classes before the season. Doing it at playoff time was what made the Tier I/Tier II experiment a failure.

Yoopskater
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Re: 3 class system

Post by Yoopskater » Mon Mar 07, 2022 11:16 am

Terrible idea. Aside from Hermantown, a current top 3 single A team would never win a title. If a Warroad or Mahtomedi has a good year they are penalized by having to play the big metro schools.

elliott70
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Re: 3 class system

Post by elliott70 » Mon Mar 07, 2022 12:13 pm

Class AAA - 32 teams
Based on history , size and previous year. (and pagstat)

1AA
Farmington High School
26 Hastings High School
Dodge County Wildcats
18 Lakeville North High School
1 Lakeville South High School
Owatonna High School
Rochester Century High School
Rochester John Marshall
Rochester Mayo High School

2AA
Bloomington Jefferson High School
19 Chanhassen High School
20 Chaska High School
2 Eden Prairie High School
Holy Family Catholic High School
3 Minnetonka High School
4 Prior Lake High School
Shakopee High School

3AA
Apple Valley High School
Burnsville High School
5 Cretin-Derham Hall High School
Eagan High School
21 Eastview High School
Park High School
6 Rosemount High School
7 St. Thomas Academy

4AA
East Ridge High School
22 Gentry Academy Stars
8 Hill-Murray School
Minnehaha Academy
Roseville Area High School
24 Stillwater Area High School
Tartan High School
23 White Bear Lake Area High School
Woodbury High School

5AA
25 Centennial High School
29 Champlin Park High School
Irondale-St. Anthony
9 Maple Grove High School
Mounds View High School
Osseo H.S.
10 Rogers High School
Spring Lake Park High School
31 Totino-Grace High School

6AA
27 Academy of Holy Angels
11 Benilde-St. Margaret's School
28 Blake
12 Edina High School
Hopkins High School
AC Wings
St. Louis Park High School
13 Wayzata High School

7AA
14 Andover High School
Anoka High School
29 Blaine High School
C-E-C Lumberjacks
Coon Rapids High School
Duluth East High School
Forest Lake High School
15 Grand Rapids High School
Marshall School, Duluth
Northern Edge

8AA
Bemidji High School
Brainerd H.S.
Buffalo High School
16 Elk River/Zimmerman
17 Moorhead High School
Roseau High School
Sartell High School
St. Cloud
30 St. Michael-Albertville H.S.

32 Hermantown

elliott70
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Re: 3 class system

Post by elliott70 » Mon Mar 07, 2022 12:17 pm

AA

1AA - 6
Farmington High School
Dodge County Wildcats
Owatonna High School
Rochester Century High School
Rochester John Marshall
Rochester Mayo High School

2AA - 3
Bloomington Jefferson High School
Holy Family Catholic High School
Shakopee High School

3AA - 4
Apple Valley High School
Burnsville High School
Eagan High School
Park High School

4AA - 5
East Ridge High School
Minnehaha Academy
Roseville Area High School
Tartan High School
Woodbury High School

5AA - 4
Irondale-St. Anthony
Mounds View High School
Osseo H.S.
Spring Lake Park High School

6AA - 3
Hopkins High School
AC Wings
St. Louis Park High School

7AA - 7
Anoka High School
C-E-C Lumberjacks
Coon Rapids High School
Duluth East High School
Forest Lake High School
Marshall School, Duluth
Northern Edge

8AA - 6
Bemidji High School
Brainerd H.S.
Buffalo High School
Roseau High School
Sartell High School
St. Cloud

Total 38 Add 26 more

Warroad
Mahtomedi
Delano
Minneapolis
Denfeld
Alexandria
Thief River Falls
Orono
East Grand Forks
Providence Academy
Northfield
Little Falls
Fergus Falls
Rock Ridge
Detroit Lakes
Chisago
Simley
Litchfield
Mankato East
Monticello
St Cloud Cathedral
Mound
Hibbing
SW Christian
Breck
Cambridge

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