MSHSL heavies strike again

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SpreadOut!
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MSHSL heavies strike again

Post by SpreadOut! » Thu Mar 03, 2022 2:22 pm

CCX Media, which covers the Northwest Metro and does an excellent job with high school sports, was planning to broadcast and stream Maple Grove vs Rogers game tonight but just said on Twitter that Section 5AA (MSHSL) stepped in and told them they cannot stream the game in any way. For whatever stupid reason the game is being played at Elk River, which is also hosting two other high school events tonight. Translation: You won’t get a ticket or a place to park, so don’t even bother trying to attend. Thus, streaming the game makes sense. Except in the eyes of the MSHSL, who rank just above Putin in terms of likability. Why is the MSHSL so awful, and why do they get away with it?!

Sparlimb
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Re: MSHSL heavies strike again

Post by Sparlimb » Thu Mar 03, 2022 2:23 pm

Someone said the Rogers HS stream was going to work. Wonder if that's what got shut down. I assume they prefer people have to pay for it.

SpreadOut!
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Re: MSHSL heavies strike again

Post by SpreadOut! » Thu Mar 03, 2022 2:28 pm

Nope. Rogers just said on Twitter stream has been cancelled. And CCX Media said they can’t broadcast the game live either. It will air at 10 pm now after everyone knows the results. The MSHSL absolutely sucks. Terrible human beings.

SpreadOut!
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Re: MSHSL heavies strike again

Post by SpreadOut! » Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:35 pm

And, just now, MG tweeted that the stream is back on, with more details coming later. If true, I’m taking credit, as I’ve been stalking every MSHSL representative I can find on Twitter :)

SpreadOut!
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Re: MSHSL heavies strike again

Post by SpreadOut! » Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:55 pm

Game is officially being live-streamed again, according to MG, Rogers and CCX. Sounds like the MG and Rogers boosters stepped up, which I assume means they paid MSHSL to allow them to livestream the game. MSHSL are still a corrupt organization filled with terrible human beings, in my opinion. They think they own high school athletes in this state.

BSUBeaver
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Re: MSHSL heavies strike again

Post by BSUBeaver » Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:26 pm

I though I had heard/read somewhere in years past that it was the Section Administrators that controlled the rights to the Section tournaments, not the MSHSL? I can't see the MSHSL allowing some sections to show the games for free while others are charging a fee.

ryguyMN
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Re: MSHSL heavies strike again

Post by ryguyMN » Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:33 pm

MSHSL at it again trying to create artificial demand...put the finals in small arenas, take away the streaming, then claim there is this HUGE demand for high school hockey! I'm not going to get started on the whole state tourney season ticket ordeal. Another avenue to create artificial demand.
Ryan

East Side Pioneer Guy
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Re: MSHSL heavies strike again

Post by East Side Pioneer Guy » Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:33 pm

I'm not one to beat on public schools in general. But any industry tends to attract people with certain skills, and a lack of other skills. Public school administrators are, in general, lacking in professional experience with market demand.

The Prep Bowl started when the Metrodome was built. At that time, there was one less class for football, and the games were played on one day. Nine man kicked off the day (clever pun there), and the other classes followed on up to AA (the largest class). Some guy had some sort of marching band performance at half time of the AA game, and it took (as I recall) about an hour. So the AA game ended well after the 10:00 news, and later than a lot of people wanted to stay up. That's how MSHSL promoted the premier game, by having it end that late. People complained about the length of the half time show for years before they finally pared it back.

The other thing they did was to have the two largest classes play back to back. A & AA. It took years and years before they had a small class (and small crowd) between the two largest classes, which made it much easier for fans of the large classes to get good seats when they got to the stadium.

Administrators tend to have an attitude of "If I make a change and it doesn't work out, I'll get the blame. If I keep everything the same, I won't get blamed for anything." In 2012, I started to work for a large school district. I could not access my Hotmail account on district computers. An IT guy told me that was because when e-mail and computers in schools were new, someone got the idea that a kid may send out a bunch of e-mails to his buddies, telling them school was cancelled for the day; so they blocked Hotmail. I asked the IT guy why I could get into a gmail account, or other e-mail accounts, and he said that it's easier to keep the ban on Hotmail, because if the guy began allowing access to Hotmail, and there were some problem because of that, he'd get in trouble. I think I was there about a year before they finally stopped blocking Hotmail. Administers who work from a place of fear make poor decisions and don't innovate.

Look at how Hill got screwed from playing in the tournament last year. Any reasonable person would look at the supposed "exposure" and see there was more risk of a player getting covid on a trip to Target that Hill players were exposed to on the ice at the section final. They couldn't even articulate the reason Hill was not allowed to play, and said Hill forfeited, a blatant lie.

They could take over the streaming of section hockey games, and promote the high school hockey. They could make sure every final and semi were streamed, and for $6, not $10, so people get a reasonable deal. Gosh, people want your product enough to pay for it, maybe use that to your advantage?

How about doing something to promote the girls tournament? Maybe lower the ticket price? Now, it may not draw more fans to the tournament. But it seems odd that the prices for two tournaments are the same, when one draws 100K and the other draws 3K to a session. Lower the ticket prices for a year or two and see what happens, maybe it pans out and maybe it doesn't. It's not a huge gamble, but if you make decisions from a place of "But what if something goes wrong?' the slightest innovation seems like a river boat gamble.

The souvenir tee shirts at the tournament suck. They're as bland as the breakfast served at the senior home, and they've always been that way. There are hundreds of art classes across the state, and they could have a competition for a new design every year. Give the winning student a $100 Amazon card. Maybe they sell ten times as many shirts, maybe not.

Unfortunately, there is only one venue in the metro that has good capacity for section finals, or section semi double headers. I know one of the draw backs of Mariucci is the Olympic sheet, but I say we beat up on the U to be more accommodating. We have paid for the construction and maintenance of the arena, and they benefit from the high school to Gopher pipe line. The Vikings are required to accommodate soccer and football playoffs, this is not different.
No coach, no team
No ref, no game

goldy313
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Re: MSHSL heavies strike again

Post by goldy313 » Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:39 pm

Yes, sections control media for section events, not the MSHSL.

East Side Pioneer Guy
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Re: MSHSL heavies strike again

Post by East Side Pioneer Guy » Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:48 pm

East Side Pioneer Guy wrote:
Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:33 pm
I'm not one to beat on public schools in general. But any industry tends to attract people with certain skills, and a lack of other skills. Public school administrators are, in general, lacking in professional experience with market demand.

The Prep Bowl started when the Metrodome was built. At that time, there was one less class for football, and the games were played on one day. Nine man kicked off the day (clever pun there), and the other classes followed on up to AA (the largest class). Some guy had some sort of marching band performance at half time of the AA game, and it took (as I recall) about an hour. So the AA game ended well after the 10:00 news, and later than a lot of people wanted to stay up. That's how MSHSL promoted the premier game, by having it end that late. People complained about the length of the half time show for years before they finally pared it back.

The other thing they did was to have the two largest classes play back to back. A & AA. It took years and years before they had a small class (and small crowd) between the two largest classes, which made it much easier for fans of the large classes to get good seats when they got to the stadium.

Administrators tend to have an attitude of "If I make a change and it doesn't work out, I'll get the blame. If I keep everything the same, I won't get blamed for anything." In 2012, I started to work for a large school district. I could not access my Hotmail account on district computers. An IT guy told me that was because when e-mail and computers in schools were new, someone got the idea that a kid may send out a bunch of e-mails to his buddies, telling them school was cancelled for the day; so they blocked Hotmail. I asked the IT guy why I could get into a gmail account, or other e-mail accounts, and he said that it's easier to keep the ban on Hotmail, because if the guy began allowing access to Hotmail, and there were some problem because of that, he'd get in trouble. I think I was there about a year before they finally stopped blocking Hotmail. Administers who work from a place of fear make poor decisions and don't innovate.

Look at how Hill got screwed from playing in the tournament last year. Any reasonable person would look at the supposed "exposure" and see there was more risk of a player getting covid on a trip to Target than Hill players were exposed to on the ice at the section final. They couldn't even articulate the reason Hill was not allowed to play, and said Hill forfeited, a blatant lie.

They could take over the streaming of section hockey games, and promote high school hockey. They could make sure every final and semi were streamed, and for $6, not $10, so people get a reasonable deal. Gosh, people want your product enough to pay for it, maybe use that to your advantage?

How about doing something to promote the girls tournament? Maybe lower the ticket price? Now, it may not draw more fans to the tournament. But it seems odd that the prices for two tournaments are the same, when one draws 100K and the other draws 3K to a session. Lower the ticket prices for a year or two and see what happens, maybe it pans out and maybe it doesn't. It's not a huge gamble, but if you make decisions from a place of "But what if something goes wrong?' the slightest innovation seems like a river boat gamble.

The souvenir tee shirts at the tournament suck. They're as bland as the breakfast served at the senior home, and they've always been that way. There are hundreds of art classes across the state, and they could have a competition for a new design every year. Give the winning student a $100 Amazon card. Maybe they sell ten times as many shirts, maybe not.

Unfortunately, there is only one venue in the metro that has good capacity for section finals, or section semi double headers. I know one of the draw backs of Mariucci is the Olympic sheet, but I say we beat up on the U to be more accommodating. We have paid for the construction and maintenance of the arena, and they benefit from the high school to Gopher pipe line. The Vikings are required to accommodate soccer and football playoffs, this is not different.
Last edited by East Side Pioneer Guy on Thu Mar 03, 2022 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
No coach, no team
No ref, no game

ozz
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Location: ER

Re: MSHSL heavies strike again

Post by ozz » Thu Mar 03, 2022 6:40 pm

SpreadOut! wrote:
Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:35 pm
And, just now, MG tweeted that the stream is back on, with more details coming later. If true, I’m taking credit, as I’ve been stalking every MSHSL representative I can find on Twitter :)
The original cancellation tweet from CCX said something like "Section 5AA won't allow us to stream it." The Rogers tweet that the stream was back on says: "Thanks to @MGCrimsonHockey boosters, @rhs_boyshockey boosters, @CCXSports and 5AA for making this happen." Pure speculation, here, but to me it sounds like CCX wasn't going to be allowed to stream it because they hadn't paid the section to do so, then the teams' boosters paid up.

Sparlimb
Posts: 2264
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2002 7:11 am

Re: MSHSL heavies strike again

Post by Sparlimb » Thu Mar 03, 2022 6:46 pm

East Side Pioneer Guy wrote:
Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:33 pm
I'm not one to beat on public schools in general. But any industry tends to attract people with certain skills, and a lack of other skills. Public school administrators are, in general, lacking in professional experience with market demand.

The Prep Bowl started when the Metrodome was built. At that time, there was one less class for football, and the games were played on one day. Nine man kicked off the day (clever pun there), and the other classes followed on up to AA (the largest class). Some guy had some sort of marching band performance at half time of the AA game, and it took (as I recall) about an hour. So the AA game ended well after the 10:00 news, and later than a lot of people wanted to stay up. That's how MSHSL promoted the premier game, by having it end that late. People complained about the length of the half time show for years before they finally pared it back.

The other thing they did was to have the two largest classes play back to back. A & AA. It took years and years before they had a small class (and small crowd) between the two largest classes, which made it much easier for fans of the large classes to get good seats when they got to the stadium.

Administrators tend to have an attitude of "If I make a change and it doesn't work out, I'll get the blame. If I keep everything the same, I won't get blamed for anything." In 2012, I started to work for a large school district. I could not access my Hotmail account on district computers. An IT guy told me that was because when e-mail and computers in schools were new, someone got the idea that a kid may send out a bunch of e-mails to his buddies, telling them school was cancelled for the day; so they blocked Hotmail. I asked the IT guy why I could get into a gmail account, or other e-mail accounts, and he said that it's easier to keep the ban on Hotmail, because if the guy began allowing access to Hotmail, and there were some problem because of that, he'd get in trouble. I think I was there about a year before they finally stopped blocking Hotmail. Administers who work from a place of fear make poor decisions and don't innovate.

Look at how Hill got screwed from playing in the tournament last year. Any reasonable person would look at the supposed "exposure" and see there was more risk of a player getting covid on a trip to Target that Hill players were exposed to on the ice at the section final. They couldn't even articulate the reason Hill was not allowed to play, and said Hill forfeited, a blatant lie.

They could take over the streaming of section hockey games, and promote the high school hockey. They could make sure every final and semi were streamed, and for $6, not $10, so people get a reasonable deal. Gosh, people want your product enough to pay for it, maybe use that to your advantage?

How about doing something to promote the girls tournament? Maybe lower the ticket price? Now, it may not draw more fans to the tournament. But it seems odd that the prices for two tournaments are the same, when one draws 100K and the other draws 3K to a session. Lower the ticket prices for a year or two and see what happens, maybe it pans out and maybe it doesn't. It's not a huge gamble, but if you make decisions from a place of "But what if something goes wrong?' the slightest innovation seems like a river boat gamble.

The souvenir tee shirts at the tournament suck. They're as bland as the breakfast served at the senior home, and they've always been that way. There are hundreds of art classes across the state, and they could have a competition for a new design every year. Give the winning student a $100 Amazon card. Maybe they sell ten times as many shirts, maybe not.

Unfortunately, there is only one venue in the metro that has good capacity for section finals, or section semi double headers. I know one of the draw backs of Mariucci is the Olympic sheet, but I say we beat up on the U to be more accommodating. We have paid for the construction and maintenance of the arena, and they benefit from the high school to Gopher pipe line. The Vikings are required to accommodate soccer and football playoffs, this is not different.
The issue last year for Covid was a simple one. They mandated a 10 day period between exposure and playing the next game. They should not have allowed any teams to have a section final less than 10 days from the tournament. Then it would have been a non-issue. For whatever reason, they couldn't see far enough ahead and it bit them in the rear. Hermantown got the same treatment.

East Side Pioneer Guy
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Re: MSHSL heavies strike again

Post by East Side Pioneer Guy » Thu Mar 03, 2022 8:59 pm

Yes, it was a simple issue. One WB player was on the ice for about 38 seconds and had no contact with a Hill player. And they stone walled about it before finally lying that Hill forfeited.

It would have been simple to test every player before the tournament. None of the players got covid.
No coach, no team
No ref, no game

SpreadOut!
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Re: MSHSL heavies strike again

Post by SpreadOut! » Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:36 pm

ozz wrote:
Thu Mar 03, 2022 6:40 pm
SpreadOut! wrote:
Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:35 pm
And, just now, MG tweeted that the stream is back on, with more details coming later. If true, I’m taking credit, as I’ve been stalking every MSHSL representative I can find on Twitter :)
The original cancellation tweet from CCX said something like "Section 5AA won't allow us to stream it." The Rogers tweet that the stream was back on says: "Thanks to @MGCrimsonHockey boosters, @rhs_boyshockey boosters, @CCXSports and 5AA for making this happen." Pure speculation, here, but to me it sounds like CCX wasn't going to be allowed to stream it because they hadn't paid the section to do so, then the teams' boosters paid up.
Yes. The boosters stepped up and paid the ransom so the game could be broadcast/streamed live.

Question: Aren’t the MSHSL and Section 5AA one in the same? I mean, doesn’t the MSHSL create the sections and oversee them? Who gets to keep the ransom payment?

ozz
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Re: MSHSL heavies strike again

Post by ozz » Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:51 pm

I don't know the answer to either of those questions, but wish I did.

East Side Pioneer Guy
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Re: MSHSL heavies strike again

Post by East Side Pioneer Guy » Fri Mar 04, 2022 5:34 am

SpreadOut! wrote:
Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:36 pm
ozz wrote:
Thu Mar 03, 2022 6:40 pm
SpreadOut! wrote:
Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:35 pm
And, just now, MG tweeted that the stream is back on, with more details coming later. If true, I’m taking credit, as I’ve been stalking every MSHSL representative I can find on Twitter :)
The original cancellation tweet from CCX said something like "Section 5AA won't allow us to stream it." The Rogers tweet that the stream was back on says: "Thanks to @MGCrimsonHockey boosters, @rhs_boyshockey boosters, @CCXSports and 5AA for making this happen." Pure speculation, here, but to me it sounds like CCX wasn't going to be allowed to stream it because they hadn't paid the section to do so, then the teams' boosters paid up.
Yes. The boosters stepped up and paid the ransom so the game could be broadcast/streamed live.

Question: Aren’t the MSHSL and Section 5AA one in the same? I mean, doesn’t the MSHSL create the sections and oversee them? Who gets to keep the ransom payment?
What, you expect transparency from the MSHSL?
No coach, no team
No ref, no game

BSUBeaver
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Re: MSHSL heavies strike again

Post by BSUBeaver » Fri Mar 04, 2022 8:14 am

SpreadOut! wrote:
Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:36 pm
ozz wrote:
Thu Mar 03, 2022 6:40 pm
SpreadOut! wrote:
Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:35 pm
And, just now, MG tweeted that the stream is back on, with more details coming later. If true, I’m taking credit, as I’ve been stalking every MSHSL representative I can find on Twitter :)
The original cancellation tweet from CCX said something like "Section 5AA won't allow us to stream it." The Rogers tweet that the stream was back on says: "Thanks to @MGCrimsonHockey boosters, @rhs_boyshockey boosters, @CCXSports and 5AA for making this happen." Pure speculation, here, but to me it sounds like CCX wasn't going to be allowed to stream it because they hadn't paid the section to do so, then the teams' boosters paid up.
Yes. The boosters stepped up and paid the ransom so the game could be broadcast/streamed live.

Question: Aren’t the MSHSL and Section 5AA one in the same? I mean, doesn’t the MSHSL create the sections and oversee them? Who gets to keep the ransom payment?
The MSHSL sets up the sections, but then the member schools of said section set up an administration/board to run it. At one time, you used to be able to find that information on the MSHSL website. But now, it either isn't there, or is hard to find.

goldy313
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Re: MSHSL heavies strike again

Post by goldy313 » Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:56 am

Region handbooks are nearly impossible to find on the MSHSL website, I had to google MSHSL admin region 1AA to find it. The search option on the MSHSL webpage is nearly worthless.

From the 1AA handbook regarding 1AA fees for broadcasting section events:
A- Fee for live television broadcast - Negotiate live television
B- Fee for live radio broadcast - No fee if station is registered with the MSHSL, $100 otherwise
C- Fee for cable delayed broadcast - $150
D-Fee for webcasting - Fees for webcasting will follow the fees established by the MSHSL. The fee schedule can be found on the League website.

If you go to the MSHSL webpage and search "webcasting fees" a document pops up with each regions webcasting fees. in 1AA if a school does it it is free, that is why Lakeville was able to put on the 1AA game for free. 2AA, 5AA, 6AA, and 7AA says negotiated, 8AA charges $1000. 3AA is $900. 4AA is $250.

SpreadOut!
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Re: MSHSL heavies strike again

Post by SpreadOut! » Fri Mar 04, 2022 2:52 pm

Thanks for posting this. Yes, the old MSHSL website was awful, and somehow they made the “new” MSHSL website even worse. I’m guessing it has something to do with their communications people both being old former print newspaper reporters. The interweb is very hard to understand to them and probably viewed as just a fad. “Real people get their information in print.”

East Side Pioneer Guy
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Re: MSHSL heavies strike again

Post by East Side Pioneer Guy » Fri Mar 04, 2022 4:01 pm

goldy313 wrote:
Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:56 am
Region handbooks are nearly impossible to find on the MSHSL website, I had to google MSHSL admin region 1AA to find it. The search option on the MSHSL webpage is nearly worthless.

From the 1AA handbook regarding 1AA fees for broadcasting section events:
A- Fee for live television broadcast - Negotiate live television
B- Fee for live radio broadcast - No fee if station is registered with the MSHSL, $100 otherwise
C- Fee for cable delayed broadcast - $150
D-Fee for webcasting - Fees for webcasting will follow the fees established by the MSHSL. The fee schedule can be found on the League website.

If you go to the MSHSL webpage and search "webcasting fees" a document pops up with each regions webcasting fees. in 1AA if a school does it it is free, that is why Lakeville was able to put on the 1AA game for free. 2AA, 5AA, 6AA, and 7AA says negotiated, 8AA charges $1000. 3AA is $900. 4AA is $250.
Those fees are all over the map, which strongly suggests that they are set by each section.

If 8AA charges $1K, I'll give a hat tip to Spuds TV for letting me watch that gratis.
No coach, no team
No ref, no game

Cookster
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Re: MSHSL heavies strike again

Post by Cookster » Fri Mar 04, 2022 5:32 pm

It is my understanding that 2AA and 6AA fees are as follows:
250 per quarterfinal game
600 per each semifinal
900 for final.

So to do all 7 games, the cost is about $3000. Then you pay the announcers and perhaps equipment you are probably looking at the $4k-$5k range. The streaming company does not keep all the money, so you really need help with the boosters or parents to help fund, because we live in a for profit world.

East Side Pioneer Guy
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Re: MSHSL heavies strike again

Post by East Side Pioneer Guy » Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:22 pm

Cookster wrote:
Fri Mar 04, 2022 5:32 pm
It is my understanding that 2AA and 6AA fees are as follows:
250 per quarterfinal game
600 per each semifinal
900 for final.

So to do all 7 games, the cost is about $3000. Then you pay the announcers and perhaps equipment you are probably looking at the $4k-$5k range. The streaming company does not keep all the money, so you really need help with the boosters or parents to help fund, because we live in a for profit world.
I'm good with only streaming the semis and finals.
No coach, no team
No ref, no game

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