St. Cloud Youth Hockey Split

[BlueGoose5]

Very, very good questions, George. I, too, will await for a response.

I'd add one more question: When do the investigations threatened by SCTYHA begin?

[elliott70]

Again, there are many posting and perhaps readin on this site that do not understand the process. Without a motion and a asecond we would not have a discussion. Without a discussion the board would have little knowledge of what the situation was.

I understand that. But, in talking with someone close to this issue I heard several good points.

One of those involved your motion.

You made a motion to approve an absolutely atrocious proposal.

Why did you not make a motion toreject this proposal?

Voting no for the proposal would reject the proposal and therefore almost kill it for at least one year.
Making a negative motion is not the same as making a proposal to accept.
It still would allow for a motion to create an association.
The second difference is the people on the agenda had asked for this motion. It is in reponse to their request.

Or, correct me if I am wrong, is that not a possibility that would still earn discussion?

And, you seemed to have tip-toed around my main question, which seems to happen often from Mr. Kennedy as well.

If MN hockey sets this as its precedent, what should keep me and a couple of my cronies from making a proposal to split the south-side association into East and West using Cooper Ave. as the dividing line?

If you want to go through that effort and have some basis for it, please do so. does it create a bunch of work for MN Hockey board? Sure does.
Will it happen? There is a cost to doing something like wicked and that group are doing, not to mention time.
And isn't it better the board be teh ones to review it from a somewhat neutal position without threats of lawsuits and name calling on the local level.

[George Blanda]

Very, very good questions, George. I, too, will await for a response.

I'd add one more question: When do the investigations threatened by SCTYHA begin?

My guess would be right before the defamation lawsuit.

[wickedshot]

Brian:

I said in public last Thursday night that Donovan has been a resource. I've asked for information -- on the 03/04 steering committee of CHS, Apollo and Tech coaches and parents, I've asked for copies of SCYHA newsletters and some minutes. And I've run some budget questions by her (since she did a lot of the budgeting for SCYHA the past eight years. Do we talk? Yes. We've been friends (and at times adversaries) for five years. I've asked for much of the same information from Tim Timm, D10 director, John Miller, D10 president, but they are not actively involved and neither is she. Contrary to rumor, Ron Hall is not involved, nor have I even mentioned this to him. He might support it as a parent, but I've never had a conversation with him.

Whew. Sorry for rambling on.

What difference does it make where I live? My kid has gone to northside schools, SPPM and two southside schools. Does that make a difference?

I have talked to people from Apollo, Cathedral and Tech, past association officials, current parents, parents who kids no longer play and on and on. I'm open to talking to anyone. I have responded to you immedietely when you e mailed me.

And finally, I'm looking forward to talking with SCYHA, possibly forming a committee and seeing what we can come up with, under one association or two. I'm open.

[greybeard58]

For all that are trying to keep the pot boiling and bringing actual names to the front that are not yours. Maybe you should come forward and reveal your self. Another is what have you done in the past to develope and promote hockey for all in St Cloud and what do you plan on doing in the future to develope and promote youth hockey for all in St Cloud regardless how the present situation plays out?

Or will you be content to stay in the shadows and sit back complain and agitate?

In all honesty for the size of a city St Cloud is, your participation numbers stink.

[RLStars]

Here is the WEB page for St. Cloud Boundaries and towns. Keep in mind that it looks like it is from AVON to CLEARWATER. NOT JUST ST. CLOUD. Many townships and small town to pull from. St. Joe, Waite Park, Clear Water, Clear Lake, Rockville and all the townships? Tech looks to have the biggest area in Green that the map shows!

http://isd742.org/secondaryboundarymap.pdf

Rockville is apart of the ROCORI school system.

I have a question........If the St. Cloud youth hockey Asscoiation does end up splitting into two seperate asscoaitions (Apollo and Tech). What would happen to the Northside kids if the Northside association were to fold?

Hmmmm...........interesteing.

[elliott70]

Why hasn't anyone answered George's question on dividing up the new St. Cloud Tech Youth Hockey Association by Cooper Ave into East/West because of the precedent that will have been set if it is changed? As someone who is completely unbiased and looking in from the outside of this entire situation, it seems to me that a small group of people (wicked and his cronies) have forced this issue down the throats of the people of the SCYHA without the majority of the support! There should be a right way and a wrong way to talk about a split or dividing teams according to high schools. If I was a Cathedral parent on the south side and my kid had to play in the St. Cloud Tech Youth Parent how would I know my kid is getting a fair shake when it was clearly stated by a District 742 Employee and Tech coach Chad Hommerding that this was being DONE TO BENEFIT TECH HS HOCKEY? There are way to many underlying issues in this whole ordeal and it was brought up in a completely selfish and ridiculous manner by a small group without best interest or input from SCYHA members

I have spoken to that issue more than once at board and committee meetings. I have drawn up language to put in the handbook. Most recently in November and then again in December for the discernment committee.

It has not happened. The VP of Planning has proven to be incapable of moving quickly except when proded to do so by Green, DeMeo and one or two others.

[George Blanda]

Brian:


What difference does it make where I live? My kid has gone to northside schools, SPPM and two southside schools. Does that make a difference?

Please forgive me while I take some time to laugh that one off.

If nothing else, it'll help me laugh it off when I bomb my nutrition test in about an hour.

[wickedshot]

okay, Brian, whatever.

If you have some things to say, call me. 320-260-8387. I'd be happy to discuss them.

[George Blanda]

okay, Brian, whatever.

If you have some things to say, call me. 320-260-8387. I'd be happy to discuss them.

Sorry, it appears as if I got you a little rattled.

So, you live on the North side. What's the difference?

You are running the SOUTH-side youth hockey association!!! Your kid wouldn't have even played for the association you are now running. Just smells kindy fishy and maybe says that you've got your own little agenda...that's all I'm saying.

OK. So once this thing gets approved...I, from the farthest Northwest of St. Cloud you can get, am going to Start Southeast St. Cloud Youth hockey (sarc) even if no one wants it.

Explain to me where that DOES make sense...

[wickedshot]

Rattled? Hardly. It's just that I've said this many times before; so it gets a little repetivive and frustrating. But I was asked by the group to be president (having had 15 years experience in SCYHA, much of it on the board and some of the EB).

I don't have a kid in youth hockey

I know a fair amount of people (often helpful for fundraising).

It's kind of funny because I have pushed this idea for more than five years. My kid went to SPPM and quite possibly was going to CHS when I was one of the main forces behind two Pee Wee A teams. You're right. He would have played on the North Pee Wee A team with some CHS and Apollo kids. Didn't prevent me from pushing the issue then.

I could see your point if I had been a Johnny-come-lately to this. I'm not. Would I rather see this take place under one assocation or two? One, if possible......look at the record. It may help you discern motivations more clearly, for the record speaks for itself.

[observer]

Wicked,

It makes a difference where you live because that's where families play youth hockey. Where they live. Your children will play for the SCYHA. Interesting that you would donate all your time to an association where your children will never play. Youth Hockey Associations don't give waivers like they used to and they don't have to. Many Districts now have no-waiver policies. SCYHA would have to waive your children in order for them to play for an association outside of where you live. Why would they do that? Occasionally they do if you're a pain in the ass. But with your goal you have now taken your child from his community friends because you're selfish and have some other, not youth hockey community focused, selfish ajenda. Your child will feel bad and would rather play in his community. Remember, youth hockey is Squirt, PeeWee and Bantam and then comes high school hockey. They are not, nor should they be, connected. Open enrollment is a school discussion not a hockey one.

There's an old saying, "be part of the solution not part of the problem." You are currently part of the problem. Put your energy into recruiting 100 new mites for fall and help the SCYHA assure their bright future.

[observer]

Excuse me. No child in youth hockey? You're off your rocker. The story stays the same. It ain't going to happen, nor should it.

[RLStars]

Again, what happens to a northside youth if the northside association would fold for whatever reason? The southside association would not have to allow them to play, since their hockey community (minnesota hockey definition) is the Tech school district.

It seems to me that the growth in St. Cloud is now in the south and not to suprisingly, thats also where the money is. The north side seems to be lower economically. I don't remember what was said when the SCTYHA was asked what would happen to the financial obligations of the SCYHA is there was a split, but I believe the debt would stay with the northside....Right?

[BlueGoose5]

Observer, you just posted the second best argument on this thread. George has posted the best questions and has even given logical answers to those questions. Elliott, stop bolding every statement.

[wickedshot]

Well, believe it or not, some people donate time for reasons other than their kids. Attribute any motivation you want. You have your opinon. Thanks for the advice.

[wickedshot]

By the way, Observer, where do you live and where does your kid go to school? Just curious. Of all the posters on this thread, I think three have identified ourselves. Care to come forward so we can see if some of you might have an agenda?

Or since several of you have so many thoughts and ideas........how about a name and phone number. Are you willing to really get involved or just sit on on the bench while others play?

[George Blanda]

Rattled? Hardly. It's just that I've said this many times before; so it gets a little repetivive and frustrating. But I was asked by the group to be president (having had 15 years experience in SCYHA, much of it on the board and some of the EB).

I don't have a kid in youth hockey

I know a fair amount of people (often helpful for fundraising).

It's kind of funny because I have pushed this idea for more than five years. My kid went to SPPM and quite possibly was going to CHS when I was one of the main forces behind two Pee Wee A teams. You're right. He would have played on the North Pee Wee A team with some CHS and Apollo kids. Didn't prevent me from pushing the issue then.

I, too, am an advocate for a North/South split as far as teams go (PeeWees and Bantams). I have been for many years.

But, currently, you're not pushing that issue. You're pushing a completely different issue with the completely new organization.

On a side question...with all of your meeting minutes...do you find know who was on the executive board of SCYHA when they switched to one A team?

[wickedshot]

Wrong, Brian. Look at the posts I've made in the past hour. Read carefully. I think you'll see my preference stated quite clearly. Read what Mr. Elliott has endorsed -- the two groups getting together to talk about a split under one assocation. Did I not say it would be a great thing to consider. Do you think it would be easy to start an assocation with zero money (outside of some sponsors who have stepped up)?

In answer to the above post, the debts would stay with the current assocation. But so would all the assets, which I would advise you to look at the numbers. Yes, I do have who was on the board in past minutes. Want em?

[wickedshot]

Brian:

By the way, a letter to Ms. Kissner from me is going out today to request that the SCYHA board approve a committe -- made up of some SCYHA reps, some of our group, parents from each high school and the high school coaches -- all to figure out if a split at pee wee and bantam can be accomplished with the current assocation and how that might be best achieved. Do you know where I stand now?

[elliott70]

Observer, you just posted the second best argument on this thread. George has posted the best questions and has even given logical answers to those questions. Elliott, stop bolding every statement.

First, you do not have the authority to tell posters how to post.
Second, I bold it when my response is inside of a quote so the reader has an easier time to see what my response to the questions.

If it annoys you there is nothing I can do about it.

[elliott70]

Rattled? Hardly. It's just that I've said this many times before; so it gets a little repetivive and frustrating. But I was asked by the group to be president (having had 15 years experience in SCYHA, much of it on the board and some of the EB).

I don't have a kid in youth hockey

I know a fair amount of people (often helpful for fundraising).

It's kind of funny because I have pushed this idea for more than five years. My kid went to SPPM and quite possibly was going to CHS when I was one of the main forces behind two Pee Wee A teams. You're right. He would have played on the North Pee Wee A team with some CHS and Apollo kids. Didn't prevent me from pushing the issue then.

I, too, am an advocate for a North/South split as far as teams go (PeeWees and Bantams). I have been for many years.

But, currently, you're not pushing that issue. You're pushing a completely different issue with the completely new organization.

On a side question...with all of your meeting minutes...do you find know who was on the executive board of SCYHA when they switched to one A team?

George,
I don't see wicked pushing a split. He and the leaders of the current association agreed to find a way to answer this north/south team issue.
Wicked agreed to work with the current board and vice versa.
It seems you are chastising him for making an attempt to bring about something you support.

And it should be pointed out that wicked (and all the St Cloud people in attendance) were courteous to the board, each other and all others in attendance.

There were no questioning of motives. Just an attempt to find out what was what by most of the MN Hockey board, and then an attempt to make St Cloud youth hockey better.

[observer]

Wicked,

I do see a post above that says your preference is one association. Stick with that goal and focus your energy towards that goal. Whoever invited your assistance to help with a new south side organization has a bad agenda. It's focused on the high school which shouldn't be part of any youth hockey association discussion.

As for the shifting population, schools move boundaries to keep schools close to equal in size. As the northern community ages, become empty nesters, and school populations fall, the school district will move the border to level class sizes. They can't have one school empty and another burst from it's seams. With the moving school border comes a moving hockey association border. I've also mentioned I like the Rochester and Lakeville models better so why create a third goofy model. The goal is to develop more, better, players and that is more easily accomplished with everyone pulling on the same rope, together. Frankly, you'll end up with fewer high level teams with two associations as you'll dilute each other.

And the demographic discussion. Hockey players are no longer white, anglo, Scandinavians. There's teams in Dallas and Los Angeles that can kick your team's butt. Dissect their demographic makeup. Recruit 5 year olds, all 5 year olds. Hello, Jerome Iginla, Kyle Okposo, Scott Gomez. I heard Richfield recruited over 30 hispanic mites last year. Hey, their cousins in Texas, California, and elsewhere are playing why shouldn't they.

I am involved in youth hockey administration but don't live near St. Cloud.

[BlueGoose5]

Observer, you just posted the second best argument on this thread. George has posted the best questions and has even given logical answers to those questions. Elliott, stop bolding every statement.

First, you do not have the authority to tell posters how to post.
Second, I bold it when my response is inside of a quote so the reader has an easier time to see what my response to the questions.

If it annoys you there is nothing I can do about it.

First, you're right, I have no authority.

Second, it doesn't annoy me. Rechecking your posts, I see your point.

Third, though, what does annoy me is the action of the Tech Board to ruin SCYHA. The north side could be harmed terribly by their actions, and they could care less. It annoys me that a north-sider is telling the south side what exactly is in their best interests and that they'll have to join his association or not play at all. It annoys me that this association is for Tech hockey only and is not meant for all kids, even though a good chunk of kids will either never play hockey at Tech HS or have no plans to play HS hockey at all. It really annoys me that this group operated in secret for so long and now suddenly springs this on SCYHA. And, it really, really annoys me that this group has the audacity to form this association without any, and I mean any, ground-swell of support from the people most affected, that being the kids and parents.

And, it annoys me that you, Elliott, don't have a handle on the concerns and worries of many in the SCYHA, and that you seem to give more sympathy to a break-away group rather than a Minnesota Hockey affiliate. To that end, it makes sense that you've bonded with the Tech group.

[brokenbat]

I've posted once on the this topic...I am someone who has no agenda...I'm MELROSE, MINNESOTA of all places....however, after reading this and talking to people involved in the situation I still find it WRONG the way Mr. Kennedy and his group went about the separate youth association. I think that something needs to be done to develop more hockey players in St. Cloud that can be competitive at the high school level....I don't think that 1 A team each at the PeeWee and Bantam Levels is right...however, I don't agree with the way Kennedy and his people went about this! That is wrong! It should not happen like this, no matter how you try and backtrack what you have said and your intentions, your initial actions and how this all came about is wrong! As someone who is completely removed from the situation being that you are a North Side Parent without an agenda is extremely fishy to me. Secondly, either you changed residents often or why do your kid/kids attend different schools? Academic or hockey reasons?