gender equality

Discussion of Minnesota Youth Hockey

Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)

Post Reply
justletemplay
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:14 pm

gender equality

Post by justletemplay » Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:42 pm

Just wondering what people think of the fact that girls are not forced to play on girls teams even though one is offered at their level. Should they play with boys using any reason they chose. How does it hurt girls programs if they arent loyal to their program, the one they hardly had to fight for and get everything they want. If a boy doesnt like his youth options can he play on a girls team.

No, I dont have kids playing anymore and these are not necessarily my opinions. Just thought it was time we address the issue.

areaman
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:18 am

Post by areaman » Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:09 pm

It's going to get interesting in Edina. Some of the top 10U girls will be trying out for Squirts. And I don't think they're aiming to play on a B team.

elliott70
Posts: 15425
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:47 pm
Location: Bemidji

Post by elliott70 » Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:49 pm

Good for those Edina girls.
But lets see how they do when they get to Bantams.

elliott70
Posts: 15425
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:47 pm
Location: Bemidji

Post by elliott70 » Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:51 pm

My philosophy has always been girls play with the girls.
Make the program you will be playing in the future stronger now.

The idea that playing with the boys will make them better is not necessarily true. And I have seen it work in reverse.

trippedovertheblueline
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:43 pm

Post by trippedovertheblueline » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:10 pm

elliott70 wrote:My philosophy has always been girls play with the girls.
Make the program you will be playing in the future stronger now.

The idea that playing with the boys will make them better is not necessarily true. And I have seen it work in reverse.
I don't think that girls parents whom tell their kid to play with boys, either A) ask their child what they want or B) ask the boys team what they want.

The locker room for boy teams with all boys is different then one at peewees with a girl on it. And yes, the locker room is part of the boys youth sports experience, beyond the game.

How do you feel about the kids not playing with their peers?

GR8-justoffthepost
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:45 pm

Post by GR8-justoffthepost » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:12 pm

Let me start off by saying every familys situation and decision is different and by no means is my daughter/family the "poster child" for the outcome of girls playing with the boys.

I have had personal experience with my daughter playing at a Squirt A level with boys. The girls who play that high a level often become very good defenders because they dont get enough good game time puck handling to develop the stick skill at the forward position. And in time it actually defeats the skills process ie. stick handling, shooting, passing. They tend to learn to get rid of the puck quicker which diminishes their effectiveness when they do transition to girls and takes time adjust enough to be effective. The feet and skating; girls can develop along with the boys and compete very well with the skating skills but it does not make up for the lack of puck pocession.

If I had to do it over, I probably would go the same route but get her on a weaker summer team to give her more opportunities with the puck. We have had great coaches at the squirt level and the coaches pushed her as they pushed the boys equally.

The decision is that of the families, but many factors come in to play. Association size, coaching, ice time, talent pool and others. Use your resources to make the best decsion for your family.

Good luck!

ilike2score
Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:00 am

Post by ilike2score » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:29 pm

The all girl teams can and do actually negatively effect the "youth" teams. In a small association it is hard to get numbers, for girls teams or "youth" teams. At the mite and squirt levels for sure I advocate for only "youth" teams. Peewees checking is introduced so I understand why girls go to girls, But there still is girls who want to play with the boys.

TriedThat2
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:33 am

Post by TriedThat2 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:52 am

I believe that girls playing on youth teams actually have a negative affect on the Association's numbers.
When suzie opts to play at the squirt a level, her circle of friends doesn't get exposed to hockey because they feel that they cannot keep up with the boys, and therefore the girls try pumpkin pushing. The end result is lower numbers in the girls program.

blueliner5
Posts: 265
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:53 pm

Post by blueliner5 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:00 am

What happens when a girl plays on a boys team (Squirts, Peewee's) they are taking a roster spot from a bubble player (boy). Essentially if the girl has any talent will improve on her skills while the boy stays at the lower of the boys program and may not be challenged (depending on the level and association). Therefore, when she reaches Bantam age she opts out and hops on board with the girls program. The boys program is not developing the boys in this circumstance. Girls should play with girls since we all know they will not be playing with the boys in the long run. Now move this topic to the girls youth program thread

smalltownhockey21
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:29 am

Post by smalltownhockey21 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:25 am

I don't get it at all why are girls allowed to play with boys in the first place? In all the sports I played (in a small association) there was not any girls on the soccer, football, tennis, golf, baseball teams...why do they get to play with the Boys at hockey?

They could be competitive at other sports with guys but they are seperated....not that I am discriminating or anything. But I think girls sports are set up for a reason, for girls to play.

DMom
Posts: 993
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:46 am

Post by DMom » Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:50 am

smalltownhockey21 wrote:I don't get it at all why are girls allowed to play with boys in the first place? In all the sports I played (in a small association) there was not any girls on the soccer, football, tennis, golf, baseball teams...why do they get to play with the Boys at hockey?

They could be competitive at other sports with guys but they are seperated....not that I am discriminating or anything. But I think girls sports are set up for a reason, for girls to play.
Two of my sons played football against teams that had a girl on them this year, in two different leagues, from two different towns. Played baseball last spring against at least one girl, at the travel level.

I hear that the U14 issue is going to impact a lot of ice schedules this season, not just D6, to me that's a bigger issue. As far as a girl taking a boy's spot, my sons have nothing to gripe about unless they are the best shooter, best defenseman, best skater, etc, on their team, if they are on a lower team with a girl higher than them. Before anyone can complain, they need to be the best at their level. That's a fairly high goal, regardless of what level you are on. It means you have to get outside of your comfort zone and improve the things that don't come naturally. Worry about that before you worry about other people's kids, boys or girls.

TriedThat2
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:33 am

Post by TriedThat2 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:59 am

I think the original intent of allowing girls to play on the youth teams was simply to give them a place to play.
Girls hockey has evolved enough now, that I beleive, if the Association has a girls team, they should be required to play there. If there isn't a team, then yes, let them play on the youth team.

smalltownhockey21
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:29 am

Post by smalltownhockey21 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:00 am

Worry about that before you worry about other people's kids, boys or girls.
I don't have to worry about that since I do not have children, but the article is gender equality correct? So why should girls have the right to play boys, if they don't like it then they can go to girls sports?

So now if a boy doesn't like it where can he go? lol I really don't care that much about this subject but if you want to be fair to everyone is this the way to do it?

SECoach
Posts: 406
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 10:29 am

Post by SECoach » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:04 am

Youth Hockey and Girl's Hockey are definitions set by USA Hockey, which Minnesota Hockey is an affiliate member of. Changing the rules to create "boys" and "girls" hockey would lock many girls around the country, and around the state, out of the game. There are simply not enough girls in many areas to create a team. Therefore, their only opportunity to play is in youth hockey. The maybe unintended result is that they get to choose.

It often doesn't appear to make sense since Minnesota has a successful girls program, but changing the rule would be bad for many others. There are places in Minnesota where girls have to play with boys to play at all. Not many, but some and they are becoming less and less. The best way to get girls to play with girls is to create a program that it makes sense for them to play in and then educate as to why that is best.....if it is. As girl's hockey has grown in Minnesota, the occurance of them playing youth has dwindled. Hopefully we continue to provide a viable opportunity that makes the decision easy. I agree that every families situation is different, but also believe that the girls truly have a better experience playing with girls in most cases. Isn't that what its' all about?

2pipesnin
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:06 am

Post by 2pipesnin » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:12 am

Just to clarify, my kids are out of youth hockey and i did not have any daughters. But I did coach for a long time (Squirts, PeeWee and Bantams) and had girls play on my Squirt "A" (2 girls) and PeeWee "A" (1 girl) teams and loved having them. They did not take a spot away from any boy....they belong there and earned that spot. Every player matures at a different age and these two girls played very well. They developed their skating, stick handling and games skills right with the boys. In fact one is playing DIII and one is playing DI right now.
If the girls go through the normal try-out process and make the team........let them play. They deserve the spot! They did not displace anyone. The player that did not make the "A" team will develop just fine on the "B" team if they work hard. The girls will move to their girls teams when they are ready and will be better players for it. As far as the locker room goes.....that is the responsibility of the coach to make sure each player is respectful of the other (on and off the ice) We had no problems.

jollyroger
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:12 am

Post by jollyroger » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:23 am

A few observarions:
Many parents have their girls play Mites/Squirts because they don't trust girls' hockey to be competetive. Once their kid skates with some good U10s in the offseason they're sold quickly on the move to the girls side. The only examples I've seen lately (say the last 3 years) of girls playing PeeWees is when their association doesn't offer a U12A team.
Everybody, and I mean everybody, can spot the girls in U14 or JV or U12AAA who have been playing PeeWees. And I don't mean that in a good way......

muckandgrind
Posts: 1566
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:48 am

Post by muckandgrind » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:45 am

What I've seen and detest are the parents who have their girls tryout for a boys team and if their daughter doesn't make the team they want, THEN have them play girls hockey.

greybeard58
Posts: 2510
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:40 pm

Post by greybeard58 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:30 am

The lawyers threaten to sue if they do not get all things equal. Right now a girl can roster on 2 different teams by Mn Hockey rules boys cannot. A girl can play on a youth team. Where does the boy go.
They also compare Bantam A and the 14A and Bantam B to 14B to me that is apples and oranges. To bad common sense can't be used. But if they want true equity,go for it and maybe the boys will get it also.

greybeard58
Posts: 2510
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:40 pm

Post by greybeard58 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:31 am

Slow internet hit submit twice and it posted twice.
Last edited by greybeard58 on Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

elliott70
Posts: 15425
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:47 pm
Location: Bemidji

Post by elliott70 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:58 pm

greybeard58 wrote:The lawyers threaten to sue if they do not get all things equal. Right now a girl can roster on 2 different teams by Mn Hockey rules boys cannot. A girl can play on a youth team. Where does the boy go.
They also compare Bantam A and the 14A and Bantam B to 14B to me that is apples and oranges. To bad common sense can't be used. But if they want true equity,go for it and maybe the boys will get it also.
"The lawyers threaten to sue if they do not get all things equal. Right now a girl can roster on 2 different teams by Mn Hockey rules boys cannot. A girl can play on a youth team. Where does the boy go.
They also compare Bantam A and the 14A and Bantam B to 14B to me that is apples and oranges. To bad common sense can't be used. But if they want true equity,go for it and maybe the boys will get it also."


Hey, Louisiana Man, maybe you should be on the MH board, looks like you like to hear yourself "talk", also.

:lol:

Knight7
Posts: 298
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:42 am

Post by Knight7 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:24 pm

I had my daughter play 10AU then 12UA (as 10U age). I would have gladly had her play the next 2 years at 12UA. Problem was we no longer had 12A in our association and every association we asked said " Sure she could play, at 12B". It forced our hand on options and she played PWB one year then made the PWA team the following season. I let her tryout at the HS and she made the varsity so we took the HS route.

Now I see on the Girls youth program there is a thing going on in Blaine about recruitment at the 12A level. All this nonsense is going to push the girls prorgams to look at AAA hockey sooner than later. If there had more oppurtunities for the girls to play at the approriate level then many of the girls would waive out to a local association where they could play at their ability. No one likes watching a A player score 12 goals playing at the B level. It is not good for anyone involved.

Until Minnesota Hockey address this issue you will have girls playing boys hockey and the associations will either take heat like Blaine is now or parents will take matters into their own hands and do what they feel is best for their child.

Girls hockey needs to see this as a huge issue and allow for 12A girls to be waived easier when there is no A team in their association.

theref
Posts: 600
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:52 pm

Post by theref » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:03 pm

If there is no girls team available, then by all means girls should get to join the boys. However, as many on here have already stated, girls are getting the opportunity to choose between two programs and boys do not. Think of it on a broader spectrum...

Boys don't get to play on girls volleyball teams in high school if there isn't a boys team.

When Michelle Wie took an exempt spot on a PGA tour event, the low man on the totem pole didn't get to take her spot in the LPGA event she could have played at.

I understand that women were not given equal rights once upon a time, however I don't think over correcting is the answer either.

Post Reply