Wisconsin Fire

Discussion of Minnesota Youth Hockey

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iwearmysunglassesatnight
Posts: 314
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:07 pm

Post by iwearmysunglassesatnight » Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:21 pm

[quote="Deep Breath"]97s are in the semis Sunday morning against Compuware. Compuware beat them 6-2 in pool play. The 00s, 99s and 97s are all in the Nike Bauer Invite, which is in Chicago the first weekend in November.[/quote]

99's will win the nike bauer, 00's will compete but not win.
Was a duster and paying for it?????

Wrister
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:57 am

Wisconsin Fire

Post by Wrister » Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:39 am

So this team is now the Minnesota Made Fire, correct? Aren't all of the practices at Minnesota Made, and the team is made up of 90% Minnesota Made players and all of the coaches are from Minnesota Made. The only association they have with Sommerset and Wisconsin is a post office box and try outs, correct. It is my understanding people have called the Fire with questions and are told everything is going through Bernie McBain and Minnesota Made. So much for a Wisconsin based team!

buttend
Posts: 374
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:53 pm

Re: Wisconsin Fire

Post by buttend » Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:36 pm

Wrister wrote:So this team is now the Minnesota Made Fire, correct? Aren't all of the practices at Minnesota Made, and the team is made up of 90% Minnesota Made players and all of the coaches are from Minnesota Made. The only association they have with Sommerset and Wisconsin is a post office box and try outs, correct. It is my understanding people have called the Fire with questions and are told everything is going through Bernie McBain and Minnesota Made. So much for a Wisconsin based team!

9 posts 7 of the relating to the Fire? Looks like you have an AX to grind

You do not have any statements "correct" .

Below are links to the teams schedules check then out.....

97 http://firehockey.pucksystems2.com/page/show/12276

00 http://firehockey.pucksystems2.com/page/show/12276

bella
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:57 pm

d1

Post by bella » Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:35 pm

most all the kids that play for the fire end up in the nhl or go d1

scoreandscoreoften
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:28 pm

Re: Wisconsin Fire

Post by scoreandscoreoften » Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:40 pm

buttend wrote:
Wrister wrote:So this team is now the Minnesota Made Fire, correct? Aren't all of the practices at Minnesota Made, and the team is made up of 90% Minnesota Made players and all of the coaches are from Minnesota Made. The only association they have with Sommerset and Wisconsin is a post office box and try outs, correct. It is my understanding people have called the Fire with questions and are told everything is going through Bernie McBain and Minnesota Made. So much for a Wisconsin based team!

9 posts 7 of the relating to the Fire? Looks like you have an AX to grind

You do not have any statements "correct" .

Below are links to the teams schedules check then out.....

97 http://firehockey.pucksystems2.com/page/show/12276

00 http://firehockey.pucksystems2.com/page/show/12276
Why no information on the 99's ?

Deep Breath

Post by Deep Breath » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:01 pm

If you go to the Fire website, it appears the '99 team has their website log-in protected, while the 97s and 00s have made their sites "public". Means the parents of the 99s are given access to the site based on their email addresses and passwords they come up with. Other organizations have team sites restricted this way as well; nothing unique to the '99 Fire.

Wrister
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:57 am

Wisconsi Fire

Post by Wrister » Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:11 am

No axe to grind, simple truth. The 99 Fire, all but for three token Wisconsin players, are from the MN Made-Machine with a few MN Made Tursbo players. All three coaches are Mn Made- Machine and the manager is a MN Made/ Machine employee. Last year's 98 team was the same way. It is my understanding the vast majority of the practices will be at MN Made. I would be curious as to the make up of the 00 team. When you call the Fire contact he tells you to call MN Made. What resembalance of these teams are Wisconsin? When you review the other WI Tier 1 teams and their roster and coaches, they are are all from WI. Again no axe to grind but if certain people within MN Hockey really want Tier 1 teams, they should not be hiding behind the skirts of WI. Deep Breath do you disagree that this is now a MN Made organization?

jancze5
Posts: 421
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:11 pm

why

Post by jancze5 » Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:54 am

Can someone answer a simple question....if every Tier 1 AAA team in the entire USA and Canada has no restrictions on residency for their rosters, why are the FIRE held back by a combination of WAHA and Minnesota?
It seems like there are waaaaay more important things to worry about than D6 and Minnesota Hockey spending so much time worrying about 17 kids in a birth year out of literally thousands, that want to play for the Fire.
There was a mass exodus of high schoolers this year, I'd be more worried about that than 17 kids practicing at Minnesota Made and playing games in Somerset.
New England Prep School Hockey Recruiter

Deep Breath

Post by Deep Breath » Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:54 am

Looking at the '00 schedule, the practices are split right down the middle with half at Mn Made and half in Somerset. Looking at the roster, it looks like about half the roster is from the Machine team. I am assuming there were tryouts for the team, since that information was posted on the Fire website. Now, does having half the team being Machine kids make it a Mn Made team or does that mean that the Machine kids that made it are on the team because they are some of the better players at the age level that tried out? Not worth debating because that becomes an endless circle. Also, has anyone checked as to how many kids from Wisconsin tried out for the team? I have no idea but if the Wisc kids aren't coming out, it's got to be pretty hard to make a family sign their son up to play.

Wrister
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:57 am

Wisconsi Fire

Post by Wrister » Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:24 am

Deep Breath, I have checked and it is pretty clear that no one comes out from WI because they know that this is going to clearly be a MN Made run team and they do no want to drive to Edina and now St. Louis Park for all of the practices. Their chances of making this team is about as close to zero as it can be, you and everyone else knows this. They take a few token WI players just to satisfy WAHA. This is common knowledge. There could have been a 98 team but the big studs from the previous year's team bailed and they did not want to fill in the spots with WI players, this is also well known. I agree with previous submitters, everyone be up front about al this and let there be a Tier 1 team from MN and let the players in WI play on theirs.

Deep Breath

Post by Deep Breath » Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:51 am

Wrister, going off the Fire website, it appears that 11 of the 16 00s are from a MN Made summer team, so roughly two-thirds of the roster. Is that becuase the team is a Mn Made team or is that because they were 11 of the top-16 players that were identified during the tryout process and were asked to play on the team? Also, looking at the schedule that is posted on the team's website, the practices are split down the middle between Somerset and Mn Made, so I'm not sure where you're getting your details about the Wisc kids "not wanting to drive to Edina and now St. Louis Park for all the practices," when clearly, that is not the case when you're talking about a 50/50 split.

O-townClown
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Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:22 pm
Location: Typical homeboy from the O-Town

Re: why

Post by O-townClown » Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:54 am

jancze5 wrote:There was a mass exodus of high schoolers this year,
How many? It has recently been way down from the levels of around 10 years ago. I seem to remember hearing it was 10-15 HS eligible players in 2008 compared to about 40-50 in 2002 or something.
Be kind. Rewind.

MrBoDangles
Posts: 4082
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:32 pm

Re: d1

Post by MrBoDangles » Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:45 pm

bella wrote:most all the kids that play for the fire end up in the nhl or go d1
:lol:

MrBoDangles
Posts: 4082
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:32 pm

Re: Wisconsin Fire

Post by MrBoDangles » Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:17 pm

buttend wrote:
Wrister wrote:So this team is now the Minnesota Made Fire, correct? Aren't all of the practices at Minnesota Made, and the team is made up of 90% Minnesota Made players and all of the coaches are from Minnesota Made. The only association they have with Sommerset and Wisconsin is a post office box and try outs, correct. It is my understanding people have called the Fire with questions and are told everything is going through Bernie McBain and Minnesota Made. So much for a Wisconsin based team!

9 posts 7 of the relating to the Fire? Looks like you have an AX to grind

You do not have any statements "correct" .

Below are links to the teams schedules check then out.....

97 http://firehockey.pucksystems2.com/page/show/12276

00 http://firehockey.pucksystems2.com/page/show/12276
Pretty obvious looking at the schedule that it is set up to work with the Choice league.
Very little ice time for the money......



The Fire looks to be a Made program.

trippedovertheblueline
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:43 pm

not getting tier 1 classification

Post by trippedovertheblueline » Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:51 pm

Is this some of the obstacles limiting the Fire tier status?

From WAHA Guidebook on Organizations status

B. Limitation: Tier I Organizations must be an entirely separate and distinct entity and operation apart from a Tier II Organization. A Tier I Organization or Tier I Team cannot be part of or affiliated with a Tier II Team or Tier II Organization and no person shall be an Officer, Director, Hockey Director, Coach, Coaching Director, Manager, etc. of a Tier I Organization and hold any of the above positions in an Tier II Organization.

Did having the Fire Coach in Chief also on the board of directors of Tier 2 Somerset Youth Hockey Association come into play in not granting tier 1 status? If changed will they be allowed tier 1 in the future?

C. Minimum Requirements:
A Tier I Organization must have at least one Pee Wee Youth Team and at least two (2) additional Youth Teams from one of the following divisions: Peewee, Bantam and Midget.

This year there is 3 teams, but not two additional meeting the divisions. Did this come into play not granting tier 1?
Next year, bringing back a 98' team they would have PW major/Bantam minor. and Bantam Major. 1 pw and 2 from pw/bantam/ or midget

3. General Intent: The general intent of Tier I Hockey in Wisconsin is to provide an opportunity for the best Wisconsin youth players to develop and compete at the highest level of hockey available in North America at their ages by and through USA Hockey and WAHA.

Does this wording hold them back from getting Tier 1 as well? Has it been attempted to be switched in wording to reflect "players". If it didn't manner I can't find anything that limits how many non Wiscy kids, or maximum out of state players a Fire team can have.

Quasar
Posts: 637
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:27 pm

Re: why

Post by Quasar » Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:30 pm

O-townClown wrote:
jancze5 wrote:There was a mass exodus of high schoolers this year,
How many? It has recently been way down from the levels of around 10 years ago. I seem to remember hearing it was 10-15 HS eligible players in 2008 compared to about 40-50 in 2002 or something.
I don't know anything about high schoolers, but thanks to your PM I have a much better understanding of the other subject ..Thank You ..

karl(east)
Posts: 6257
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:03 pm
Contact:

Re: why

Post by karl(east) » Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:34 pm

O-townClown wrote:
jancze5 wrote:There was a mass exodus of high schoolers this year,
How many? It has recently been way down from the levels of around 10 years ago. I seem to remember hearing it was 10-15 HS eligible players in 2008 compared to about 40-50 in 2002 or something.
The "Who's Not Coming Back Next Year" thread on the HS forum, which is pretty accurate, currently lists 23.

It's definitely an increase from recent years; there's some pretty good speculation as to the reasons why on that thread.

InigoMontoya
Posts: 1716
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:36 pm

Re: not getting tier 1 classification

Post by InigoMontoya » Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:25 am

trippedovertheblueline wrote:Is this some of the obstacles limiting the Fire tier status?

From WAHA Guidebook on Organizations status

B. Limitation: Tier I Organizations must be an entirely separate and distinct entity and operation apart from a Tier II Organization. A Tier I Organization or Tier I Team cannot be part of or affiliated with a Tier II Team or Tier II Organization and no person shall be an Officer, Director, Hockey Director, Coach, Coaching Director, Manager, etc. of a Tier I Organization and hold any of the above positions in an Tier II Organization.

Did having the Fire Coach in Chief also on the board of directors of Tier 2 Somerset Youth Hockey Association come into play in not granting tier 1 status? If changed will they be allowed tier 1 in the future?

C. Minimum Requirements:
A Tier I Organization must have at least one Pee Wee Youth Team and at least two (2) additional Youth Teams from one of the following divisions: Peewee, Bantam and Midget.

This year there is 3 teams, but not two additional meeting the divisions. Did this come into play not granting tier 1?
Next year, bringing back a 98' team they would have PW major/Bantam minor. and Bantam Major. 1 pw and 2 from pw/bantam/ or midget

3. General Intent: The general intent of Tier I Hockey in Wisconsin is to provide an opportunity for the best Wisconsin youth players to develop and compete at the highest level of hockey available in North America at their ages by and through USA Hockey and WAHA.

Does this wording hold them back from getting Tier 1 as well? Has it been attempted to be switched in wording to reflect "players". If it didn't manner I can't find anything that limits how many non Wiscy kids, or maximum out of state players a Fire team can have.
What are the Iowa rules? Perhaps the Iowa Fire will have 70-30 practices in Edina-Mason City? Maybe the casino will build a rink just below the border on 35 - the coolers could be powered by wind mill?

PanthersIn2011
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:27 am

USAH Rule

Post by PanthersIn2011 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:28 am

Something that I have not seen mentioned in this year's Fire Loving/Bashing Thread :) is the USA Hockey rule (not WAHA ....not MH) that determines the USAH district in which the team registers.

If 80% or more of a team's roster falls within a single USAH district, then the team must register in that district.

Otherwise, it must register in the district in which they play their home games.

This is why the Fire must be careful not to have too many Minnesotan's on any given team. And why they play their home games in Somerset.

lkool
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:58 pm

Re: Wisconsi Fire

Post by lkool » Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:06 pm

Wrister wrote:No axe to grind, simple truth. The 99 Fire, all but for three token Wisconsin players, are from the MN Made-Machine with a few MN Made Tursbo players. All three coaches are Mn Made- Machine and the manager is a MN Made/ Machine employee. Last year's 98 team was the same way. It is my understanding the vast majority of the practices will be at MN Made. I would be curious as to the make up of the 00 team. When you call the Fire contact he tells you to call MN Made. What resembalance of these teams are Wisconsin? When you review the other WI Tier 1 teams and their roster and coaches, they are are all from WI. Again no axe to grind but if certain people within MN Hockey really want Tier 1 teams, they should not be hiding behind the skirts of WI. Deep Breath do you disagree that this is now a MN Made organization?
Who cares if they are owned by minnesota made or not, who cares if they practice at MM. They are registered with WAHA and follow the rules set by WAHA

look at the section that reads"ALL HOME GAMES ARE PLAYED IN SOMERSET, WI" from the fire website http://firehockey.pucksystems2.com/page/show/12277-news

I am sure that there are other Wisconsin teams that practice in Minnesota. Would you be happier if they purchased ice at some other ice arena rather than MM?

They aren't hurting minnesota hockey in any way other than taking a some talented kids away from winter programs, but that leaves more room for other players.

It's not like it is some deep secret that minnesota made is a company that makes money developing players and selling ice team. There is no conspiracy here there is no story.

scrapiron
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:35 pm

Post by scrapiron » Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:31 pm

24 pages

Wrister
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:57 am

Wisconsin Fire

Post by Wrister » Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:07 pm

I didn't see how many Wisconsin players are on the Wisconsin Fire that recently competed in the Silver Stick. Is their a team roster from the tournament that would show this?

dogeatdog1
Posts: 510
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:41 pm

Post by dogeatdog1 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:48 pm

Did the 99's lose a player off the roster recently? Any insight out there... I heard a rumor and would like some info?

forreal
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:48 pm

Post by forreal » Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:56 pm

dogeatdog1 wrote:Did the 99's lose a player off the roster recently? Any insight out there... I heard a rumor and would like some info?
Sounds like Bernie made a kid suck his thumb. There's a guy i went to high school with who has a boy on that team and he felt it was O.K.

I think its time to quit blaming this Bernie guy and start looking at these parents. this happened and it sounds like there are many other stories like this. Why in the world would these parents keep putting their kids through this. It will absolutely ruin them! The most insane thing about it is, the parents don't only participate in this, but they pay an outrageous amount to have there kids humiliated and bullied. This parent thought it was a reasonable punishment for messing up a drill. It is nuts!

How as hockey parents can we help make these parents accountable or if they want to punish there kids this way is it none of our business?

Thought?

dogeatdog1
Posts: 510
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:41 pm

Post by dogeatdog1 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:14 pm

forreal wrote:
dogeatdog1 wrote:Did the 99's lose a player off the roster recently? Any insight out there... I heard a rumor and would like some info?
Sounds like Bernie made a kid suck his thumb. There's a guy i went to high school with who has a boy on that team and he felt it was O.K.

I think its time to quit blaming this Bernie guy and start looking at these parents. this happened and it sounds like there are many other stories like this. Why in the world would these parents keep putting their kids through this. It will absolutely ruin them! The most insane thing about it is, the parents don't only participate in this, but they pay an outrageous amount to have there kids humiliated and bullied. This parent thought it was a reasonable punishment for messing up a drill. It is nuts!

How as hockey parents can we help make these parents accountable or if they want to punish there kids this way is it none of our business?

Thought?
I had heard a different rumor not this one and didn't want this post to get locked. There might be more to come on this. I know that a lot of Fire guys are on this forum and one should be able to confirm if a player was let go...

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