A & AA classification starting at Pee Wee in 2012-13

Discussion of Minnesota Youth Hockey

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Quasar
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Post by Quasar » Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:40 am

How about AA district teams ??? A stays the same.

AA district teams play a regular season schedule and AA state tournament,

Associations do what they always do. If the top kids are going to scramble to get on the top AA team in their district, you might as well make it easy to do..

There are a lot of AA associations that can't field a decent A team, let alone AA, Yet, they have a couple of kids that could compete at district level AA.

Like it or not, summer AAA has changed the playing field..
Last year there were 94 freshman playing varsity in the state. Second year bantam, year around players are now moving onto varsity teams a year earlier than in the past.

There is only so much room for all these kids. A highly competitive AA league could solve a few problems. It will all level out in a couple more years when only year around players are on varsity teams.

In the mean time thinking outside the box is called for.

Shinbone_News
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Post by Shinbone_News » Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:22 pm

Bo, you gotta lot of eyerolls and lightbulbs going on, but you still haven't answered my question: Why hasn't A and AA high school hockey led to the kind of exodus you are expecting at youth? Why do Breck, Blake, Warroad, Hermantown, St Thomas Academy et al still field varsity teams that manage to compete with and even beat the biggest AA schools-- and yes, even get invited to the Gold division of Schwann? Using your logic, why does anyone in youth hockey EVER agree to play against Edina right now instead of move there? Just because Wayzata is in my team's district and they often dominate the district's big and small associations alike, it doesn't make me want to move there in the least. It makes me want to beat them, whether you call them A, AA, or Jingle Heimer Schmidt. :cry: :cry:

MrBoDangles
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Post by MrBoDangles » Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:18 pm

Shinbone_News wrote:Bo, you gotta lot of eyerolls and lightbulbs going on, but you still haven't answered my question: Why hasn't A and AA high school hockey led to the kind of exodus you are expecting at youth? Why do Breck, Blake, Warroad, Hermantown, St Thomas Academy et al still field varsity teams that manage to compete with and even beat the biggest AA schools-- and yes, even get invited to the Gold division of Schwann? Using your logic, why does anyone in youth hockey EVER agree to play against Edina right now instead of move there? Just because Wayzata is in my team's district and they often dominate the district's big and small associations alike, it doesn't make me want to move there in the least. It makes me want to beat them, whether you call them A, AA, or Jingle Heimer Schmidt. :cry: :cry:
A (new AA) youth usually play AA HS
B-1 (new A) youth usually play A HS in most cases.

Because some find those sandbagging private school teams the easiest way to a phoney tournament experience....

Now you admit that it makes no difference if you call them A, AA or even AAA. ](*,) Thank YOU!!! :lol:


:idea:

Shinbone_News
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Post by Shinbone_News » Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:41 pm

A (new AA) youth usually play AA HS
B-1 (new A) youth usually play A HS in most cases.

Because some find those sandbagging private school teams the easiest way to a phoney tournament experience....
Splendid! We're in agreement then: The AA vs. A experiment is no threat at all because it's only a tiny minority of obsessive parents who are willing to move or change schools for an easy layup on the Edina AA team. Now we can put this little tangent to bed. :idea: :idea:

Benito Juarez
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Post by Benito Juarez » Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:10 am

The only logical format is....

AAAAA

AAAA

AAA

AA

A

:roll:

MrBoDangles
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Post by MrBoDangles » Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:05 am

Shinbone_News wrote:
A (new AA) youth usually play AA HS
B-1 (new A) youth usually play A HS in most cases.

Because some find those sandbagging private school teams the easiest way to a phoney tournament experience....
Splendid! We're in agreement then: The AA vs. A experiment is no threat at all because it's only a tiny minority of obsessive parents who are willing to move or change schools for an easy layup on the Edina AA team. Now we can put this little tangent to bed. :idea: :idea:
Like I've been trying to get through your head all along...... Either nothing will change :idea: Or they will try to cut it down to an ultimate few in which all the talented will want to play at. :idea:

I'm proud of you! :D

MrBoDangles
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Post by MrBoDangles » Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:08 am

Benito Juarez wrote:The only logical format is....

AAAAA

AAAA

AAA

AA

A

:roll:
=D>

elliott70
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Location: Bemidji

Post by elliott70 » Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:31 am

ttt

BadgerBob82
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Post by BadgerBob82 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:40 pm

What is the status of AA - A hockey for 2012-13 season?

JSR
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Post by JSR » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:46 pm

The forging of A or AA teams should have NOTHING to do with the high school they are associated with. If you are going to do it at all it should be based on association size and nothing else, sort of like high school but not directly associated with high school. JMHO

observer
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Post by observer » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:58 pm

The forging of A or AA teams should have NOTHING to do with the high school they are associated with. If you are going to do it at all it should be based on association size and nothing else, sort of like high school but not directly associated with high school.
You're totally correct. We've heard since MN High School Hockey is such an important piece inside MN Hockey that it's muddying the youth waters. There is zero connection organizationally between youth hockey and high schools but MN Hockey seems to want to put them in the same bucket instead of keeping them separate. Some youth associations develop players for 1 high school and others have players going to several different high schools.

The Wisconsin model of grouping youth hockey associations by size makes sense to me.

BadgerBob82
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Post by BadgerBob82 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:50 pm

Has MN Hockey and/or the Districts have voted to institute it for the 2012-13 season? If so, has a definite proposal been approved as to AA and A level associations?

gardetto
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Post by gardetto » Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:38 am

observer wrote:
The forging of A or AA teams should have NOTHING to do with the high school they are associated with. If you are going to do it at all it should be based on association size and nothing else, sort of like high school but not directly associated with high school.
You're totally correct. We've heard since MN High School Hockey is such an important piece inside MN Hockey that it's muddying the youth waters. There is zero connection organizationally between youth hockey and high schools but MN Hockey seems to want to put them in the same bucket instead of keeping them separate. Some youth associations develop players for 1 high school and others have players going to several different high schools.

The Wisconsin model of grouping youth hockey associations by size makes sense to me.
That might work but I still think it will run off of what level you play at High School.

Outoftowner
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Post by Outoftowner » Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:01 pm

crazyhorse wrote:The thing that stinks with this set-up and even the way MH Hockey is set up today is that the 1-4 "A" level players playing on an "A" team in smaller or weaker communities get pummeled by the big boys all year long. They are held hostage to their "home" association due to residency rules and now they will not be able to play versus the top players across the state in the playoffs. Development of these type of players is already hindered and now it would be even more. Wish all the true "A" players could play with those at their level of play somehow.
Hopefully MN hockey will see that in your case (and others like you) that they are not supporting your child's hockey development and are in fact hindering development, so maybe they will make the waiver process easier, if your association does not have a AA team.

Don't expect a lot of sympathy from some on this board who happen to be from large, successful programs. There is typically a "sucks to be you" attitude from some. I'd be willing to bet that if their little super star was stuck on a crappy team they'd be complaining with you.

In a perfect world Mn hockey would look to fulfill the needs of the individual first , the association second. Unfortunately, it seems they support the association by forcing kids to play in said association and it seems the association has no requirements to meet the needs of individual players.

Outoftowner
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Post by Outoftowner » Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:06 pm

MrBoDangles wrote:
MN_Hcky_Coach wrote:D10 is going AA/A/B1/B2 this year and as I understand, it will look something like this

AA - Centennial, Blaine, Elk River, Anoka, Andover, Champlin Park
A - Chisago Lakes, Princeton, Spring Lake Park, Rogers, Irondale, Cambridge, Coon Rapids
B1 - Chisago, Anoka, Elk River, Blaine 1, Blaine 2, Centennial 1, Centennial 2, Spring Lake Park, Andover, Cambridge, Champlin Park, Coon Rapids, Rogers
B2 - Anoka, Blaine, Centennial, Elk River, Spring Lake Park, Andover, Champlin Park, St. Francis, Princeton, Rogers, Irondale

The only problem this year is that the "A" teams will have to play the AA teams to get to regions.
We've now established the six progams that kids will now waive/move into for this new "ELITE" level of competition. Look for families to be clamouring to get in so that they don't feel left behind and for the other programs to suffer. :idea:

There will come a day when a team like Edina will be mostly waive or move - ins. :idea:

This is what MNH came up with for a proper fit for all kids? Do they not see that they're leaving the small association kid even further back in opportunities?

Now the chance for High Peformance and other programs will swith from just A to these few AA programs???

It all makes sense when I look back to HS and think of who was in student government...... We're jacked as a society.
:lol:

YouthHockeyHub
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Post by YouthHockeyHub » Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:13 pm

I'm sorry I haven't read all 5 pages of this thread. But what seems to be missing is the fact that there aren't enough teams to make 4 even regions. There will be some associations forced into AA (similar to high school teams forced into AA like Winona who doesn't belong).

No matter how you slice this, the A/AA thing will make more associations angry than happy. The district tournaments are going to be a mess, if they even have them at all. District 12 has 1 AA-ish association (GR) - do they advance to the north region, while Virginia, Hibbing et al battle to the death for a spot in the A north region? The metro regions will be just as dis-functional.

I truly think that the current system matches more teams more fairly than this new system. Hermantown in PWA this season is a perfect illustration - a ton of D16 teams upset metro teams in Fargo Squirts - EGF in Bantam A.

I'm still unsure who this benefits - Shakopee, Waconia,and Mahtomedi??? Nothing against them, I just don't see any major benefit to the players or association. That is of course we are talking about more opportunities to "play in state". If that is the goal, then I am opposed. State is state. The A class is not good or better for the HS tourney and every one knows it. That tourmements with Breck, STA, Duluth Marshall has private schools in it to lend it a hair of cred.

Youth state tournaments with teams ranked below the top 50 is a waste of indoor ice. End of story.

BadgerBob82
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Post by BadgerBob82 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:07 pm

@YouthHockeyHub: I am uncertain what the purpose of your "blog" is. But I raised a question asking if MN Hockey has acted on the AA-A proposal. Instead of writing your opinion, how about picking up the phone and finding out the status.

The mere fact you associate with Fredrick61 actually shows that your are not a legitimate source of ANY hockey related info. Youth or otherwise.

YouthHockeyHub
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Post by YouthHockeyHub » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:40 pm

To those that find our site a "legitimate source" of information. We have a note or two on the topic on our site with a very weak prediction on the outcome based on some conversations we've had with MN Hockey Leadership the past few weeks.

http://youthhockeyhub.com/minnesota-hoc ... stinction/

Fred may also chime in on the topic prior to the meeting.

old goalie85
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Post by old goalie85 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:25 pm

For FL we would be in trouble. My oldest is a senior that class is [645]. Our assn # 's are about 550.[just moved past roseville in d2] It would be hard to impossible for us to compete w/ the AA teams. I think we would loose kids. Or maybe we would pick up kids from NB/CL. I guess we will find out.

BadgerBob82
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Post by BadgerBob82 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:13 pm

oldgoalie: MSHSL shows Forest Lake enrollment at 1,952. Class size of 645 x 4 (9-12) would be over 2,500?

Either way, at 1,952 Forest Lake is a top 20 high school size. As I have been saying for years, High School size does not correlate into hockey strength. Any Class AA-A should be done on association size. I don't know the "magic number" but an association over 100 kids at a level should be capable of having 2 A teams.

My thought is an association with less than 30 kids, can field teams at any level they deem appropriate. At 31-50 must field at least one B1 team. At 51-80 Must field at least one A team. Over 80 must field AA and A team.

DumpandChase1
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Post by DumpandChase1 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:29 pm

Fom talking with some DD, it sounds like this is a done deal for next year at pee-wees and bantams. The key for this to work is how many AA teams at each level there will be. I would say no more than 32 for pee-wees and even less, say 24, for bantams.
MN Hockey also want AA teams to play A teams in districts. That would be a huge mistake, AA should play AA and A should play A.
This could work well if done correctly, but I have a bad feeling MN Hockey will screw this up.

old goalie85
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Post by old goalie85 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:33 pm

Badger check your pm. FL highschool is only 10th-12.

greybeard58
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Post by greybeard58 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:38 pm

The AA/A proposal is for District,Region and State Tournaments only. All teams at the Peewee and Bantam level will be registered as "A" teams for league play and invitational tournament play then go to the respective A or AA tournament.
If you check out the A Bantam League in District 10 the teams all played each other once and then played a home and home within their division(A/AA) you will also see there were some associations that are considered AA at their respective High school but were in the A division and one A High school A association played in the AA division. I would believe that Mn Hockey will use strength of the Association rather than High school size to determine which division to play in.

old goalie85
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Post by old goalie85 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:03 pm

Who would pick the DD or mn hockey/assc. ? Thanks in advance Grey !!!

BenDangle
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Post by BenDangle » Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:54 pm

greybeard58 wrote:The AA/A proposal is for District,Region and State Tournaments only. All teams at the Peewee and Bantam level will be registered as "A" teams for league play and invitational tournament play then go to the respective A or AA tournament.
If you check out the A Bantam League in District 10 the teams all played each other once and then played a home and home within their division(A/AA) you will also see there were some associations that are considered AA at their respective High school but were in the A division and one A High school A association played in the AA division. I would believe that Mn Hockey will use strength of the Association rather than High school size to determine which division to play in.
what are your thoughts on it passing?

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