Minnesota's Tier1/AA Model

Discussion of Minnesota Youth Hockey

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MrBoDangles
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Post by MrBoDangles » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:35 pm

O-townClown wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:Show me a thirteen year old that doesn't want to play at the highest level possible.-
I can't show you one, I can show you lots of them. The typical discussion is that after years of car rides to practices 2-4 hours from home on weekends, they just don't want to play any more.

Next time you are down I can introduce you.

Then what happens next is that they change their mind between tryouts in the Spring and games in September. They usually play, but they don't change their mind about "the highest level" possible and become AA rather than AAA players.
Yes, the Florida Hockey experience must suck.

MrBoDangles
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Post by MrBoDangles » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:38 pm

MnMade-4-Life wrote:
old goalie85 wrote:Bo lets co-op NB & FL. We should be able to play w/anyone at all levels.
Bromance ... ain't it cute.
This, coming from one of the lipstick guys of the Bernard harem? :wink:

MrBoDangles
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Post by MrBoDangles » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:44 pm

BadgerBob82 wrote:Bo: I do not promote the endless AAA, AA, A designations. Unlike you, I like the current trend to tack "Elite" or "Super-Duper" in front of AAA to give the impression of importance.

My point has been that too many associations are hung up on the A designation, therefore, field A teams when the ability level is actually B1.

You sound like "one of those" type of parents?
They will be less "hung up" on the new AA designation?

You sound like "one of those" types that just don't get it. :D

BadgerBob82
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Post by BadgerBob82 » Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:06 pm

Bo: Hopefully you're right. AA and A designations will be based on association size and strength. Unlike the AAA designation which is based on your check cashing. I'm sure everyone at work loves hearing that your kid plays AAA Super-Duper Elite hockey.

old goalie85
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Post by old goalie85 » Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:09 pm

Made-4 Bernie sounds like some adults are taking control of their own kids lives and Jumping Off the orange train. Chugga-chugga.. :lol: :lol:

MrBoDangles
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Post by MrBoDangles » Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:29 pm

BadgerBob82 wrote:Bo: Hopefully you're right. AA and A designations will be based on association size and strength. Unlike the AAA designation which is based on your check cashing. I'm sure everyone at work loves hearing that your kid plays AAA Super-Duper Elite hockey.
Most of us pay more, for less, in the Winter.

I tell them stories about my Robbie all the time... They love it!

What? Welcome! I want to stick with the current A format.......

I hope I'm wrong.

BadgerBob82
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Post by BadgerBob82 » Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:57 pm

Bo: Maybe I have you confused with somebody else. I thought you are from an association that has weak hockey? How could you not want the AA-A thing? The mega associations would provide AA teams and instead of mopping up at the B1 level, they would field A teams that would broaden the A pool and make for more opportunities for competitive games? The "A" level would be the former B1 level. Win win situation don't you think?

But since you said you pay more for Winter hockey than AAA. I must be missing something? How could you pay $2,000 for winter hockey?

old goalie85
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Post by old goalie85 » Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:50 pm

We spend that in FL. Bantam A even more w/VFW.

YouthHockeyHub
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Post by YouthHockeyHub » Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:39 pm

old goalie85 wrote:When do they vote ?? Sat.?
The tournament committee will present its proposal on Saturday (11:00). If a vote is necessary it will be held on Sunday by the full board.

Stay tuned - we will be there all weekend. Everyone except BB82 is invited to read :)

Tony Scott

MrBoDangles
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Post by MrBoDangles » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:59 pm

BadgerBob82 wrote:Bo: Maybe I have you confused with somebody else. I thought you are from an association that has weak hockey? How could you not want the AA-A thing? The mega associations would provide AA teams and instead of mopping up at the B1 level, they would field A teams that would broaden the A pool and make for more opportunities for competitive games? The "A" level would be the former B1 level. Win win situation don't you think?

But since you said you pay more for Winter hockey than AAA. I must be missing something? How could you pay $2,000 for winter hockey?
Winter
35 games/scrimmages
45 ice practice hrs
No dryland
$1,300

Summer
28 games/scrimmages
50 ice practice hrs
30 hrs roughly dryland
unlimited shooting etc at center
5 day camp
$1,400

We found a good fit down in Georgia..... Just trying to keep in the mix like O-Town. :D

Good to see a civil post out of ya.. :wink:

BadgerBob82
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Post by BadgerBob82 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:01 am

Holy smokes.

We sure get by chepaer than you guys.

Winter
PW-A = $900
45 games (15 home; 30 Away including 1 home and 3 away tournaments
75 practice hours
40-50 dryland sessions

Summer
$150 20 practice hours through HS (20 dryland sessions)
$250 20 hour defensemen camp (10 dryland sessions)
$150 Baseball league fee
$135 Golf pass
$200 Fitness club membership (4 speed/agility/strength classes per week)
$30 Family fishing license

BadgerBob82
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Post by BadgerBob82 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:04 am

At $1,300 - $1,500 for association hockey, would that be due to non-parent coach salaries?

MrBoDangles
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Post by MrBoDangles » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:11 am

BadgerBob82 wrote:Holy smokes.

We sure get by chepaer than you guys.

Winter
PW-A = $900
45 games (15 home; 30 Away including 1 home and 3 away tournaments
75 practice hours
40-50 dryland sessions

Summer
$150 20 practice hours through HS (20 dryland sessions)
$250 20 hour defensemen camp (10 dryland sessions)
$150 Baseball league fee
$135 Golf pass
$200 Fitness club membership (4 speed/agility/strength classes per week)
$30 Family fishing license
$135 Golf pass? Mini golf?

You should stop thinking about Hockey and get out fishing and golfing then.... :lol: :wink:

MrBoDangles
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Post by MrBoDangles » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:23 am

BadgerBob82 wrote:At $1,300 - $1,500 for association hockey, would that be due to non-parent coach salaries?
$1,3OO

some

It's not like you can shop around in the Winter if your kid wants to play Hockey. You're at mercy to the system.

JSR
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Post by JSR » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:41 am

BadgerBob82 wrote:At $1,300 - $1,500 for association hockey, would that be due to non-parent coach salaries?
Bob, according to my family who lives in suburban Minneapolis, MN area and has hockey playing boys the main difference in our association costs in WI and the ones the folks in MN pay are the salaries to paid coaches. If they didn't pay their coaches their fees would be similar to ours in WI more or less.

CHI-TOWN HOCKEYDAD
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Post by CHI-TOWN HOCKEYDAD » Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:03 am

JSR wrote:
BadgerBob82 wrote:At $1,300 - $1,500 for association hockey, would that be due to non-parent coach salaries?
Bob, according to my family who lives in suburban Minneapolis, MN area and has hockey playing boys the main difference in our association costs in WI and the ones the folks in MN pay are the salaries to paid coaches. If they didn't pay their coaches their fees would be similar to ours in WI more or less.
I do not agree with the assessment of the source of cost difference in MN/WI. As a board member of a suburban association, I can say that coach fees in our association are not a significant contributor to the cost of our program that would account for the vast difference that has been outlined.

BadgerBob82
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Post by BadgerBob82 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:17 am

$135 youth golf pass for age 12-18.

Is a great deal! They had it paid for in 3 weeks!

I'm sure summer hockey is worth the money

MrBoDangles
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Post by MrBoDangles » Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:00 am

BadgerBob82 wrote:$135 youth golf pass for age 12-18.

Is a great deal! They had it paid for in 3 weeks!

I'm sure summer hockey is worth the money
Yes, Summer Hockey is a much better investment than Winter.

JSR
Posts: 1673
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:26 pm

Post by JSR » Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:53 pm

CHI-TOWN HOCKEYDAD wrote:
JSR wrote:
BadgerBob82 wrote:At $1,300 - $1,500 for association hockey, would that be due to non-parent coach salaries?
Bob, according to my family who lives in suburban Minneapolis, MN area and has hockey playing boys the main difference in our association costs in WI and the ones the folks in MN pay are the salaries to paid coaches. If they didn't pay their coaches their fees would be similar to ours in WI more or less.
I do not agree with the assessment of the source of cost difference in MN/WI. As a board member of a suburban association, I can say that coach fees in our association are not a significant contributor to the cost of our program that would account for the vast difference that has been outlined.
Suburban Minneapolis or suburban Chicago?? (based on your screenname) big difference. I am talking MN vs WI..... It'd be pretty easy to figure out. Normal WI assocation at Pee Wee level is around $900 for assocaition fees. Normal fees I have heard of in MN are anywhere between $1,200 and $1,400 for assocaiton fees. So if you are from MN how much compensation do you pay your Pee Wee A coach per season? If youa re from Chicago, doesn't matter totally different.... I've heard payments are around $5,000 for the season for the Pee Wee A coach (I am sure some are more and some are less) plus travel expenses for tournaments. Assuming 15 to 17 kids on the team that is almost dead nuts the difference in price right there according to my math..... :? :arrow:

CHI-TOWN HOCKEYDAD
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Post by CHI-TOWN HOCKEYDAD » Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:07 am

JSR wrote:
CHI-TOWN HOCKEYDAD wrote:
JSR wrote:
BadgerBob82 wrote:At $1,300 - $1,500 for association hockey, would that be due to non-parent coach salaries?
Bob, according to my family who lives in suburban Minneapolis, MN area and has hockey playing boys the main difference in our association costs in WI and the ones the folks in MN pay are the salaries to paid coaches. If they didn't pay their coaches their fees would be similar to ours in WI more or less.
I do not agree with the assessment of the source of cost difference in MN/WI. As a board member of a suburban association, I can say that coach fees in our association are not a significant contributor to the cost of our program that would account for the vast difference that has been outlined.
Suburban Minneapolis or suburban Chicago?? (based on your screenname) big difference. I am talking MN vs WI..... It'd be pretty easy to figure out. Normal WI assocation at Pee Wee level is around $900 for assocaition fees. Normal fees I have heard of in MN are anywhere between $1,200 and $1,400 for assocaiton fees. So if you are from MN how much compensation do you pay your Pee Wee A coach per season? If youa re from Chicago, doesn't matter totally different.... I've heard payments are around $5,000 for the season for the Pee Wee A coach (I am sure some are more and some are less) plus travel expenses for tournaments. Assuming 15 to 17 kids on the team that is almost dead nuts the difference in price right there according to my math..... :? :arrow:
Board member in Forest Lake. Although I am from Chicago they did teach us how to
read and do math but thanks for the lessons. In FL, at Pewee A registration is roughly $1300. The Pewee A coach is reimbursed expenses up to $1500. Half is paid by the association and half by the team. $750/15=$50 and $750/450=$1.66 for a total of $51.66. $1300-51.66=$1248.34. By my Chicago math still a long way from $900.

old goalie85
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Post by old goalie85 » Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:38 am

Chi- What about all the Beer??? Who pays for that?? Coors light is not cheap!!!!!!!

JSR
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Post by JSR » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:56 pm

CHI-TOWN HOCKEYDAD wrote:
JSR wrote:
CHI-TOWN HOCKEYDAD wrote:
JSR wrote:
BadgerBob82 wrote:At $1,300 - $1,500 for association hockey, would that be due to non-parent coach salaries?
Bob, according to my family who lives in suburban Minneapolis, MN area and has hockey playing boys the main difference in our association costs in WI and the ones the folks in MN pay are the salaries to paid coaches. If they didn't pay their coaches their fees would be similar to ours in WI more or less.
I do not agree with the assessment of the source of cost difference in MN/WI. As a board member of a suburban association, I can say that coach fees in our association are not a significant contributor to the cost of our program that would account for the vast difference that has been outlined.
Suburban Minneapolis or suburban Chicago?? (based on your screenname) big difference. I am talking MN vs WI..... It'd be pretty easy to figure out. Normal WI assocation at Pee Wee level is around $900 for assocaition fees. Normal fees I have heard of in MN are anywhere between $1,200 and $1,400 for assocaiton fees. So if you are from MN how much compensation do you pay your Pee Wee A coach per season? If youa re from Chicago, doesn't matter totally different.... I've heard payments are around $5,000 for the season for the Pee Wee A coach (I am sure some are more and some are less) plus travel expenses for tournaments. Assuming 15 to 17 kids on the team that is almost dead nuts the difference in price right there according to my math..... :? :arrow:
Board member in Forest Lake. Although I am from Chicago they did teach us how to
read and do math but thanks for the lessons. In FL, at Pewee A registration is roughly $1300. The Pewee A coach is reimbursed expenses up to $1500. Half is paid by the association and half by the team. $750/15=$50 and $750/450=$1.66 for a total of $51.66. $1300-51.66=$1248.34. By my Chicago math still a long way from $900.
And where does the association get the money???? Not saying that this particular amount gets you down to $900 by your math but it's a little disingenious to say it's "paid by the association" whent eh association gets it's money from it's parents and/or it's parental volunteer fund raising activities so parents still are paying the full amount either way. That said, how much is ice time in MN, last I remember it was around $200-$250 per hour in that area but maybe I am off. But if so where is the rest of that money goign because it sure isn't being recouped in ice time or ref fees whihc are the overwhelming majorty of where assoications spend their money???

old goalie85
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Post by old goalie85 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:49 pm

Four tournys per team about 20 teams. coaches mods[from USAH] Goalie instruction /GDI once a week for all goalies. Scholarships given to two seniors[that played in the program]. New jeseys/socks last year. Try-outs/evaluators. I'm sure I'm missing alot.

BadgerBob82
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Post by BadgerBob82 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:32 pm

It all adds up. Sharing practice ice helps. Tournaments are becoming cost prohibitive when you see $1,000 for 3 maybe 4 games. But I guess a still bargin compared to AAA summer tournaments?

CHI-TOWN HOCKEYDAD
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Post by CHI-TOWN HOCKEYDAD » Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:25 pm

JSR wrote:
CHI-TOWN HOCKEYDAD wrote:
JSR wrote:
CHI-TOWN HOCKEYDAD wrote:
JSR wrote:
BadgerBob82 wrote:At $1,300 - $1,500 for association hockey, would that be due to non-parent coach salaries?
Bob, according to my family who lives in suburban Minneapolis, MN area and has hockey playing boys the main difference in our association costs in WI and the ones the folks in MN pay are the salaries to paid coaches. If they didn't pay their coaches their fees would be similar to ours in WI more or less.
I do not agree with the assessment of the source of cost difference in MN/WI. As a board member of a suburban association, I can say that coach fees in our association are not a significant contributor to the cost of our program that would account for the vast difference that has been outlined.
Suburban Minneapolis or suburban Chicago?? (based on your screenname) big difference. I am talking MN vs WI..... It'd be pretty easy to figure out. Normal WI assocation at Pee Wee level is around $900 for assocaition fees. Normal fees I have heard of in MN are anywhere between $1,200 and $1,400 for assocaiton fees. So if you are from MN how much compensation do you pay your Pee Wee A coach per season? If youa re from Chicago, doesn't matter totally different.... I've heard payments are around $5,000 for the season for the Pee Wee A coach (I am sure some are more and some are less) plus travel expenses for tournaments. Assuming 15 to 17 kids on the team that is almost dead nuts the difference in price right there according to my math..... :? :arrow:
Board member in Forest Lake. Although I am from Chicago they did teach us how to
read and do math but thanks for the lessons. In FL, at Pewee A registration is roughly $1300. The Pewee A coach is reimbursed expenses up to $1500. Half is paid by the association and half by the team. $750/15=$50 and $750/450=$1.66 for a total of $51.66. $1300-51.66=$1248.34. By my Chicago math still a long way from $900.
And where does the association get the money???? Not saying that this particular amount gets you down to $900 by your math but it's a little disingenious to say it's "paid by the association" whent eh association gets it's money from it's parents and/or it's parental volunteer fund raising activities so parents still are paying the full amount either way. That said, how much is ice time in MN, last I remember it was around $200-$250 per hour in that area but maybe I am off. But if so where is the rest of that money goign because it sure isn't being recouped in ice time or ref fees whihc are the overwhelming majorty of where assoications spend their money???
Isn't an association by definition a collection of members organized in support of a common interest. So wouldn't I be inferring that the cost was bore by the parents (members). The point is that coach compensation is not even significant in the difference in cost as was suggested previously. What I can say is our association provides its members a detailed breakdown of the allocation of fees. See for yourself here is the link: http://www.flhockey.org/page/show/100583-registration

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