Why AAA Needs to Change

Discussion of Minnesota Youth Hockey

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summerisforbaseball
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Post by summerisforbaseball » Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:26 pm

sorry for the '04 typo It was supposed to say '01, '02 and '03. My bad. Tks for catching Bulleye.

Tigers33
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Post by Tigers33 » Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:20 pm

2112 -

No kids don't care about that...the parents do! The kids would have as much fun if they missed school to go eat pizza at chuck e cheese. The kids would have as much fun flying a plane to Albert lea to visit the spam factory. Don't kid yourself...

scoreandscoreoften
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Post by scoreandscoreoften » Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:34 pm

Shinbone_News wrote:Just a note on the Detroit tournament, which was not the Showdown in Motown -- that comes next week -- it was the Elite Prospects tournament, and seemed to be geared mostly to U18s and U16s (that's the only groups for which there were even rosters, partial, available only online).

Machine won at every level they played, but there were some excellent games along the way, and I for one enjoyed seeing how our kids matched up against some of Detroit's finest. The 01s lost their championship to a very good Winnipeg selects team (which will be back for Stars and Stripes in two weeks) that beat them twice in close matches. But the Machine beat Belle Tire 01 twice -- the Detroit AAA Tier 1 team that has been MI state champion the last two years -- and they beat Victory Honda 01 as well, another Tier 1 AAA team. (I was told this team is "rebuilding" with a new coach -- they struggled a bit.)

The 00s had a heck of a championship game against Victory Honda 00s -- behind by two goals going into the third, but busting it open for a runaway win. (Lots of the same kids played in this game as in the celebrated Edina PWAA - Detroit series this past winter. Detroit parents kept asking me how many Edina kids were on the Machine.) I didn't see much of the other age groups, but I know the 02s did drop one close game and bounced back to win their ship.

Folks looking for an apples-to-apples comparison between Tier 1 AAA and Minnesota hockey got exactly that with these games, at least at the 00 and 01 levels. Was it worth the time and money spent? Probably a different answer from every parent.
Did the 99 Machine play this last weekend?

InigoMontoya
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Post by InigoMontoya » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:18 am

Tigers33 wrote:2112 -

No kids don't care about that...the parents do! The kids would have as much fun if they missed school to go eat pizza at chuck e cheese. The kids would have as much fun flying a plane to Albert lea to visit the spam factory. Don't kid yourself...
The 02's playing on these teams are 11 years old, headed to peewees next year. Do you really think those kids don't care where they go or whom they play?

If you're going to pick a cornfield example, why Glencoe? Why not any of the other towns that don't have ice March through September, like Hutchinson, Litchfield, Richmond, Paynesville, Willmar...?

observer
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Post by observer » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:02 am

Do you really think those kids don't care where they go or whom they play?


I think what he's suggesting is only because they're told. They likely didn't come up with the idea on their own.

Of course they don't organize their schedule when they're bantams either.

Steamship
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Post by Steamship » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:23 am

If you're going to pick a cornfield example, why Glencoe? Why not any of the other towns that don't have ice March through September, like Hutchinson, Litchfield, Richmond, Paynesville, Willmar...?



What's your point?

old goalie85
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Post by old goalie85 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:30 am

Get your facts together the Spam factory is in Austin !!! :lol:

Tigers33
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Post by Tigers33 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:22 am

That was part of my point...same as saying glencoe doesn't have an arena. The age of kids they are talking about it doesn't really matter where and who they play. It does to the parents though :)

SCBlueLiner
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Post by SCBlueLiner » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:21 am

Tigers33 wrote:That was part of my point...same as saying glencoe doesn't have an arena. The age of kids they are talking about it doesn't really matter where and who they play. It does to the parents though :)
There is one exception, the Fargo Squirt International. Kids love playing in that tournament. Otherwise, yeah, one tournament is the same as the other.

JSR
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Post by JSR » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:50 am

Tigers33 wrote:That was part of my point...same as saying glencoe doesn't have an arena. The age of kids they are talking about it doesn't really matter where and who they play. It does to the parents though :)
I disagree a little bit. Maybe up in MN where the kids get to play in these fantastic arenas all the time and against these other really good kids all the time it doesn't matter. But I can tell you for a fact that when my oldest son was a mite and he went up and played in the MN Meltdown for the first time he was absolutely wide eyed and after the weekend said he wished he could play in MN and at rinks like that all the time (we're from WI). My youngest boy is a 2005 and don;t even try to tell him that "it doesn't matter", he's been watching his older brother play both winter and spring hockey since he was born and he's seen both and now is finally getting to have his "turn" and it matters to him big time that he gets to go places like MN and Chicago to play hockey, he literally cried his eyes out last spring when we told him he wasn't old enough and he's been chomping at the bit all year for this, and not that it's here all he wants to know is "are we going to MN to play?" "are we going to Chicago?" etc... etc... this is not us parents, in all honesty I've had my nuff as they say, I don't care if I ever go on anotehr road trip to play hockey, I've seen and done all I want to as a parent, this is all 100% driven by my kids at this point. I love to watch them play but I really don't care "where it happens" it just so happens we do have to travel to play at that level as they say but don't say it doesn't matter to kids that age because maybe it doesn't for most but it absolutely does to some

mackjogger
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Post by mackjogger » Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:26 pm

JSR wrote:
Tigers33 wrote:That was part of my point...same as saying glencoe doesn't have an arena. The age of kids they are talking about it doesn't really matter where and who they play. It does to the parents though :)
I disagree a little bit. Maybe up in MN where the kids get to play in these fantastic arenas all the time and against these other really good kids all the time it doesn't matter. But I can tell you for a fact that when my oldest son was a mite and he went up and played in the MN Meltdown for the first time he was absolutely wide eyed and after the weekend said he wished he could play in MN and at rinks like that all the time (we're from WI). My youngest boy is a 2005 and don;t even try to tell him that "it doesn't matter", he's been watching his older brother play both winter and spring hockey since he was born and he's seen both and now is finally getting to have his "turn" and it matters to him big time that he gets to go places like MN and Chicago to play hockey, he literally cried his eyes out last spring when we told him he wasn't old enough and he's been chomping at the bit all year for this, and not that it's here all he wants to know is "are we going to MN to play?" "are we going to Chicago?" etc... etc... this is not us parents, in all honesty I've had my nuff as they say, I don't care if I ever go on anotehr road trip to play hockey, I've seen and done all I want to as a parent, this is all 100% driven by my kids at this point. I love to watch them play but I really don't care "where it happens" it just so happens we do have to travel to play at that level as they say but don't say it doesn't matter to kids that age because maybe it doesn't for most but it absolutely does to some
The problem with your point is not only the parents, but the kids are being drawn in by the money grab. Its the same as a new cereal or toy on TV. Its directed to get the kids attention and then beat the parent into submission.

The GENIUS behind the current culture in all youth sports is they have both parent and child sucked in(for different reasons).
Kid wants to travel/stay in hotel/play at eye opening facility/etc
PARENTS WANT TO BRAG THAT LITTLE OLE OR LINA IS A SUPER STAR ELITE (fill in the blank-its not just hockey) PLAYER.

What happened to the kid loving to play the game ANYWHERE because they got to play a game they love and the parent enjoying THAT FOR WHAT IT IS AND SHOULD BE.

Its gotten way out of control and some folks are making a large sum of money on the insanity.

InigoMontoya
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Post by InigoMontoya » Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:04 pm

I don't disagree with any of that, but I think it's a little condescending to say that every kid is like a dog that doesn't know if he's fetching a tennis ball in Glencoe or fetching a tennis ball in Detroit - it's just his master telling him that fetching in Detroit is better, and all he cares about is if there is pizza. I've seen a fair number of kids that say, "I'm not hungry" when offered DQ after a disappointing loss. If your kid doesn't know any different, then for heaven's sake, take him to Glencoe.

JSR
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Post by JSR » Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:00 am

InigoMontoya wrote:I don't disagree with any of that, but I think it's a little condescending to say that every kid is like a dog that doesn't know if he's fetching a tennis ball in Glencoe or fetching a tennis ball in Detroit - it's just his master telling him that fetching in Detroit is better, and all he cares about is if there is pizza. I've seen a fair number of kids that say, "I'm not hungry" when offered DQ after a disappointing loss. If your kid doesn't know any different, then for heaven's sake, take him to Glencoe.
Exactly, thank you for a well made point.... on average the kids who don't want DQ after a disappointing loss are usually the kids who play D1 hockey, the kids who don't care tend to grow up to do other really good and respectable things but usually nothing to do with hockey or sports, nothing wrong with either but it seems to be true the majority of the time.

As for mackjogger, it is also incredibly insulting to think that all of the parents who engage in this do so just so they can brag on their kid. For my part my kids participate in spring and summer hockey and it is not to stroke my ego.... Heck 99.99% of the people I know have no idea where we are or where we are going when it comes to hockey, nor do they care, nor do I care to tell them, some of them barely even know my kids play hockey. So outside of a very very very small handful of people who get told just so they can get our mail while we are gone, or their grandparents who actually care to know, how is it that all of us parents are sucked into this for bragging rights on our kids.... Do some people brag on their kids every accomplishment, yep I see it all the time on facebook and other places but that doesn't make it a majority of people. I think maybe you are one of those who thinks one bad apple ruins the whole batch, sorry but I don't agree at all.

mackjogger
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Post by mackjogger » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:24 pm

JSR wrote:
InigoMontoya wrote:I don't disagree with any of that, but I think it's a little condescending to say that every kid is like a dog that doesn't know if he's fetching a tennis ball in Glencoe or fetching a tennis ball in Detroit - it's just his master telling him that fetching in Detroit is better, and all he cares about is if there is pizza. I've seen a fair number of kids that say, "I'm not hungry" when offered DQ after a disappointing loss. If your kid doesn't know any different, then for heaven's sake, take him to Glencoe.
Exactly, thank you for a well made point.... on average the kids who don't want DQ after a disappointing loss are usually the kids who play D1 hockey, the kids who don't care tend to grow up to do other really good and respectable things but usually nothing to do with hockey or sports, nothing wrong with either but it seems to be true the majority of the time.

As for mackjogger, it is also incredibly insulting to think that all of the parents who engage in this do so just so they can brag on their kid. For my part my kids participate in spring and summer hockey and it is not to stroke my ego.... Heck 99.99% of the people I know have no idea where we are or where we are going when it comes to hockey, nor do they care, nor do I care to tell them, some of them barely even know my kids play hockey. So outside of a very very very small handful of people who get told just so they can get our mail while we are gone, or their grandparents who actually care to know, how is it that all of us parents are sucked into this for bragging rights on our kids.... Do some people brag on their kids every accomplishment, yep I see it all the time on facebook and other places but that doesn't make it a majority of people. I think maybe you are one of those who thinks one bad apple ruins the whole batch, sorry but I don't agree at all.
JSR....point well taken.

However, in most parts of North America (yes even outside mn) there is plenty of high level hockey avail to kids under 13 yrs old. To travel more than few hours for "elite comp" is truly unnecessary and in most cases insane.
With that being said, if $ is not an issue for a family.....spend it how u please! I just don't think the cost is justified.

Kids 14+ showing signs of playing at next level and need to start getting exposure I get it.

JSR
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Post by JSR » Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:47 pm

mackjogger wrote:
JSR wrote:
InigoMontoya wrote:I don't disagree with any of that, but I think it's a little condescending to say that every kid is like a dog that doesn't know if he's fetching a tennis ball in Glencoe or fetching a tennis ball in Detroit - it's just his master telling him that fetching in Detroit is better, and all he cares about is if there is pizza. I've seen a fair number of kids that say, "I'm not hungry" when offered DQ after a disappointing loss. If your kid doesn't know any different, then for heaven's sake, take him to Glencoe.
Exactly, thank you for a well made point.... on average the kids who don't want DQ after a disappointing loss are usually the kids who play D1 hockey, the kids who don't care tend to grow up to do other really good and respectable things but usually nothing to do with hockey or sports, nothing wrong with either but it seems to be true the majority of the time.

As for mackjogger, it is also incredibly insulting to think that all of the parents who engage in this do so just so they can brag on their kid. For my part my kids participate in spring and summer hockey and it is not to stroke my ego.... Heck 99.99% of the people I know have no idea where we are or where we are going when it comes to hockey, nor do they care, nor do I care to tell them, some of them barely even know my kids play hockey. So outside of a very very very small handful of people who get told just so they can get our mail while we are gone, or their grandparents who actually care to know, how is it that all of us parents are sucked into this for bragging rights on our kids.... Do some people brag on their kids every accomplishment, yep I see it all the time on facebook and other places but that doesn't make it a majority of people. I think maybe you are one of those who thinks one bad apple ruins the whole batch, sorry but I don't agree at all.
JSR....point well taken.

However, in most parts of North America (yes even outside mn) there is plenty of high level hockey avail to kids under 13 yrs old. To travel more than few hours for "elite comp" is truly unnecessary and in most cases insane.
With that being said, if $ is not an issue for a family.....spend it how u please! I just don't think the cost is justified.

Kids 14+ showing signs of playing at next level and need to start getting exposure I get it.
Fair enough, note my son to play in Chicago last week it was less than a two hour drive. We have to go that far occasionally just for association play.

Tigers33
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Post by Tigers33 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:43 pm

Keep in mind it's a Minnesota Youth Hockey forum. Completely different discussion in Wisconsin cause of the quality and quantity of teams.

mackjogger
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Post by mackjogger » Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:20 am

JSR wrote:
mackjogger wrote:
JSR wrote:
InigoMontoya wrote:I don't disagree with any of that, but I think it's a little condescending to say that every kid is like a dog that doesn't know if he's fetching a tennis ball in Glencoe or fetching a tennis ball in Detroit - it's just his master telling him that fetching in Detroit is better, and all he cares about is if there is pizza. I've seen a fair number of kids that say, "I'm not hungry" when offered DQ after a disappointing loss. If your kid doesn't know any different, then for heaven's sake, take him to Glencoe.
Exactly, thank you for a well made point.... on average the kids who don't want DQ after a disappointing loss are usually the kids who play D1 hockey, the kids who don't care tend to grow up to do other really good and respectable things but usually nothing to do with hockey or sports, nothing wrong with either but it seems to be true the majority of the time.

As for mackjogger, it is also incredibly insulting to think that all of the parents who engage in this do so just so they can brag on their kid. For my part my kids participate in spring and summer hockey and it is not to stroke my ego.... Heck 99.99% of the people I know have no idea where we are or where we are going when it comes to hockey, nor do they care, nor do I care to tell them, some of them barely even know my kids play hockey. So outside of a very very very small handful of people who get told just so they can get our mail while we are gone, or their grandparents who actually care to know, how is it that all of us parents are sucked into this for bragging rights on our kids.... Do some people brag on their kids every accomplishment, yep I see it all the time on facebook and other places but that doesn't make it a majority of people. I think maybe you are one of those who thinks one bad apple ruins the whole batch, sorry but I don't agree at all.
JSR....point well taken.

However, in most parts of North America (yes even outside mn) there is plenty of high level hockey avail to kids under 13 yrs old. To travel more than few hours for "elite comp" is truly unnecessary and in most cases insane.
With that being said, if $ is not an issue for a family.....spend it how u please! I just don't think the cost is justified.

Kids 14+ showing signs of playing at next level and need to start getting exposure I get it.
Fair enough, note my son to play in Chicago last week it was less than a two hour drive. We have to go that far occasionally just for association play.
cant argue with that

jpiehl
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Post by jpiehl » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:21 am

Tigers33 wrote:Keep in mind it's a Minnesota Youth Hockey forum. Completely different discussion in Wisconsin cause of the quality and quantity of teams.
And keep in mind that it is a Minnesota Youth Hockey forum, and not a Twin Cities Youth Hockey forum. The issues of travel that JSR talks about exist in the areas outside of the metro area in Minnesota, too.

black sheep
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Post by black sheep » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:12 am

how many 10-12 year olds would go to school every day if their parents didnt make them.

how many 10-12 year olds would go to the doctor when sick if their parents didnt take them.

but somehow when it is a competition all parents are evil for giving their kids the best opprotunities possible.

are their crazies...for sure, but there is WAY more good ones

ask a kid if his trip to edmonton, or winnipeg, or chicago or wherever was fantastic and if they had fun.

i know i had to "drag" my kids to disneyland...poor little buggers..

Froggy Richards
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Post by Froggy Richards » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:44 am

black sheep wrote:how many 10-12 year olds would go to school every day if their parents didnt make them.

how many 10-12 year olds would go to the doctor when sick if their parents didnt take them.

but somehow when it is a competition all parents are evil for giving their kids the best opprotunities possible.

are their crazies...for sure, but there is WAY more good ones

ask a kid if his trip to edmonton, or winnipeg, or chicago or wherever was fantastic and if they had fun.

i know i had to "drag" my kids to disneyland...poor little buggers..
You're comparing Education and Healthcare to Cross-Country AAA Hockey Tournaments??????? :?

InigoMontoya
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Post by InigoMontoya » Wed May 01, 2013 6:50 am

Disneyland?!? WT?!!? Don't you know Valley Fair is right across town?!!?

Tigers33
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Post by Tigers33 » Wed May 01, 2013 7:46 am

People 8 year olds don't care. They will have fun where ever you take them to. Like I said it could be redwood falls or detroit. They are still going to have fun with their friends in the hotel no matter what.

If we are talking about high school kids then completely different story. We need to figure out the age cause this whole discussion was based off of 8-10 year olds.

JSR
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Post by JSR » Fri May 03, 2013 9:35 am

Tigers33 wrote:People 8 year olds don't care. They will have fun where ever you take them to. Like I said it could be redwood falls or detroit. They are still going to have fun with their friends in the hotel no matter what.

If we are talking about high school kids then completely different story. We need to figure out the age cause this whole discussion was based off of 8-10 year olds.
Again my 8 year old absolutely knows the difference and he doesn't have fun at any old hotel. Trust me, we've tried that with him, he isn't fooled. Again he has two older siblings though so he has more of an "education" than most kids he plays with

O-townClown
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Post by O-townClown » Fri May 03, 2013 9:44 am

JSR wrote:Again my 8 year old absolutely knows the difference and he doesn't have fun at any old hotel. Trust me, we've tried that with him, he isn't fooled.
Your son is like mine in that regard. Most of the other kids have no idea about levels of play while my son could explain the level of play in various leagues to adults. He hangs out with the older kids at the rink and forms his opinions based on what teenagers are doing, not the other Squirts.
Be kind. Rewind.

observer
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Post by observer » Fri May 03, 2013 9:51 am

Funny you don't realize the "education" whether it be hotels, teams, tourneys, pucks, etc. has come from you. That's fine but please realize it's you doing the fussing and educating at the same time. Kids want to please parents and it sounds like your kid is no different than most. I think other posters are suggesting that without parental influences (that's you) your player wouldn't be as opinionated. We all do it to a degree but we also know you're extremely opinionated and that rubs off on kids. People are a product of the environment they live in and that is the environment your kid lives in.

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