Hockey Observations at the Ballpark

Discussion of Minnesota Youth Hockey

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SCBlueLiner
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Hockey Observations at the Ballpark

Post by SCBlueLiner » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:38 am

So the last two evenings I had the pleasure of spending the night at the baseball diamond watching a couple of doubleheaders of my kid's baseball team. Three hours on Tuesday and three hours on Wednesday. I don't have to tell some of you how unexciting it is to watch some of these 11 yr old baseball games. Don't get me wrong, I like baseball, but at this age the games can be kind of slow. My wife, my extended family, and her extended family are all in agreement that youth hockey games are much, much, much more exciting to watch. Heck, even my 4 and 5 yr old nephews were LOUDLY commenting last night "When is the next hockey game!".

After the games I was speaking with my wife and made the comment that 6 hours of icetime the last two nights would have cost well in excess of $1,000. The baseball fields are free. That's why there will always be more kids playing baseball, or for that matter basketball or football than hockey. Cost.

The irony is that if the baseball parents would have to pay "hockey money" for their kids to play baseball they would be much more demanding of the kids' development and the end product on the field, and this was travel league baseball.

Summer hockey season kicks back into full gear (as opposed to a couple stick & puck sessions here and there) in another two weeks as we start practice for the final couple of tournaments in August. It will definitely be nice to get back to the rink.

I've got other musings about my observations while at baseball this summer. Interested in hearing from some of you and your experiences at the ballpark this summer, viewing the game through "hockey dad" eyes.

InigoMontoya
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Post by InigoMontoya » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:59 am

If they let you spit sunflower seeds on the floor at the rink, there would be no reason to sit at the ballpark.

OGEE OGELTHORPE
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Post by OGEE OGELTHORPE » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:10 pm

Lots of similarities in youth hockey and little league.


The coaches kid pitches and bats first instead of first line center.

Aimforthefivehole
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Post by Aimforthefivehole » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:45 pm

You have an out my friend. Lacrosse is much more exciting than baseball and the runt will better prepare himself for hockey as well. Make the switch next summer and start enjoying summer sports more. Also you should be happy you're not watching soccer. No offense to soccer moms reading this post. :lol:

savagegopher
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Post by savagegopher » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:54 pm

My kid has wanted to quit baseball for sometime, the main reason is its so slow and most of the kids are horrible. My kid has fielded balls and fired them to first and kids have jumped out of the way. My kid has kind of figured it out this year that baseball and hockey are completely different, if the ball is hit to you and you field it and if you hit the ball when its pitched to you thats all you can do, in hockey (especially at younger ages) you can control the game if you are one of the better players.

I havent let him quit baseball, because I dont want him to go to one sport (he also plays soccer), its hard for me also because of the lack of effort most parents and coaches put into it.

SCBlueLiner
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Post by SCBlueLiner » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:31 pm

Baseball gets much more enjoyable as kids age. It gets more complex and more mental. Your son may be at that point right now where he's playing with kids that can't catch the ball but that won't be the case forever. If he wants to control the game or never be bored playing have him pitch or catch.

Baseball is a skill game that takes some good hand eye coordination. You don't have to be in as good cardiovascular shape as you do for hockey but I wouldn't totally dismiss the skill aspect of the game and how it can compliment hockey.

No lacrosse where I live or my kid would be all over that. He has fun playing catch with the lacrosse sticks when we visit one of his friends who plays.

Another hockey observation from the ballpark: Kids' bats are like hockey sticks. Some of them have multiple bats and they can cost as much as high end composite sticks. Back when I played we had a 30 inch piece of metal (aluminum bat) that weighed 2-3 times as much (wood hockey sticks), yet, at my son's same age, we could all hit the ball twice as far as they can today. The same fields I played on still exist and I can show him where I hit homeruns. Now a fly ball to center is a good poke.

Froggy Richards
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Post by Froggy Richards » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:17 pm

Great post, as it covers the two sports that I've always loved the most. It is true that Hockey is more exciting of a game to watch at the younger ages. There is always action and no standing around. However, baseball is much more complex and more difficult to play. I coach Mites and Coach Pitch so I see a lot of the same kids play both. Kids just aren't as good of baseball players as they are at Hockey at a young age because it's harder to play and you have to know a lot more to play it effectively. It's been said many times that hitting a baseball is the most difficult thing to do in all of sports and it's definitely true. It's a small round ball traveling at a high speed with movement, and you have to hit it with a narrow, round bat. It's also difficult to catch, field and throw a ball at a young age. Add into that knowing what base to throw to, when you have to run and not run, backing up plays, leading off, holding runners on. And I could write three more paragraphs about the nuances of pitching and hitting. Hockey is relatively easy to understand in comparison. It's pretty much get the puck down the ice and try to score. It's also a big reason so many Moms enjoy hockey more than baseball, very easy to understand.

I think that is a big reason why kids enjoy hockey more on average. My son on the other hand has been playing baseball in some fashion since he was two. He watches every Twins game that he can and plays MLB on Wii. This has helped him to really understand the game and as a result he enjoys it a lot more. He loves it every bit as much as hockey and probably more. It takes him one month into the hockey season to forget about baseball and then hockey is his favorite again.

So, the moral of the story is stick with it if you can. Baseball is a fantastic game and I can tell you from experience that it gets a lot better as you get older. I know some people enjoy Lacrosse but I just can't get into it after watching and playing Hockey. It seems like more of a picnic game like Softball or Badminton than an actual orgainized sport. There is a reason nobody had ever heard of it up until a few years ago. There is nothing in the world like a baseball game on a beautiful summer night. Okay, guess I wrote a book there. That's just how much I love our National Past Time.

If you would allow me one more point from a Coach's perspective. If I could pick just one thing to teach your players about baseball, it is knowing what they're going to do with the ball before it's hit to them. Before every pitch, every player should tell themselves, "He is going to hit it right to me, and when he does, this is what I'm going to do with it." Then when it's hit to them they don't have to think, they've already played out the scenario in their mind. Makes the game a lot easier.

Shinbone_News
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Post by Shinbone_News » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:25 pm

On the cost issue, I'd be interested to hear what baseball costs.

OP says "baseball fields are free," and of course they are. But that doesn't keep travel soccer from being really expensive! (Often same fields, or at least same complexes).

A very interesting distinction is that soccer seems to favor well paid coaches, and that's where the money goes. There is no such thing as a well paid coach in hockey, in my experience. Even the non-parent, non-volunteer coaches -- many of them world-class -- barely get a gas stipend. At least I've never heard any different.

Any other perspectives on this? Makes for some interesting conversation when it comes to development etc.

SECoach
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Post by SECoach » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:16 pm

To counterpoint Froggy on the difficulty of baseball vs hockey, I would point out that it is difficult to be good in hockey if your thought process is "when the puck comes to me, this is what I'm going to do with it". I think each sport is difficult in it's own unique ways. In fact, major spectator sports are all difficult to be good at, otherwise we would all still be playing rather than dropping $200.00 plus to watch the professionals do it (couple too many beers included in the $200.00)

Froggy Richards
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Post by Froggy Richards » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:28 pm

SECoach wrote:To counterpoint Froggy on the difficulty of baseball vs hockey, I would point out that it is difficult to be good in hockey if your thought process is "when the puck comes to me, this is what I'm going to do with it". I think each sport is difficult in it's own unique ways. In fact, major spectator sports are all difficult to be good at, otherwise we would all still be playing rather than dropping $200.00 plus to watch the professionals do it (couple too many beers included in the $200.00)
Good Point SE. Hockey is more of an improvise and think on the fly sport than baseball. You have a little more time to mentally prepare for a play in baseball between pitches. Yep, $7.50 for a 16 oz beer at Target Field, $6.00 for hot dogs and nachos adds up quick. We only go to one a year though so we like to do it right. Hotel close by, Good Seats and several Ice cold beers!

SCBlueLiner
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Post by SCBlueLiner » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:30 pm

$9.00 for a Summit EPA. That's usually the route I go.

I remember a Twins/Yankees game a few years ago at the Metrodome where I accidentally kicked over my near full beer. Ever seen a grown man cry? I was pretty close.

Mnhockeys
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Post by Mnhockeys » Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:46 am

Interesting topics on the baseball and hockey comparison and contrast!

Wonder how many kids are good at both sports? Would one hinder or help the other sports?

An example is the local superstar Joe Mauer, a multi-sports guy. Was he a hockey player when he grew up. I am sure there is a pond or a few hockey rinks within 1/2 mile from his home where he grew up.

InigoMontoya
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Post by InigoMontoya » Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:08 am

I'm going to call a little BS on Froggy. I won't disagree about hitting a baseball being the most difficult thing in sport. Your fondness of the game is inspiring, but there is nothing complex about backing up a throw or leading off. Baseball people like to talk about how cerebral the game is, it's not. It is for the geeks in the stands working out statistics in their heads and for national league managers about every fourth or fifth game, but not so much for the guys on the field; mostly, they just do what they are told. In the 20 minutes between each pitch coaches are hollering instructions, moving fielders around, and calling pitches from the dugout. The guys that make it in baseball are the guys that hit the ball a long way and throw it really hard. I played since I can remember - a little club ball in college, some town ball, still play organized old guy ball on occassion - I have played with and against a whole pile of really good baseball players that were flat out morons.

puckfan
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Post by puckfan » Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:04 am

Wow ther comparison of bb to hockey......really like comparing apples to handgranades.
I can only imagine what level you are watching when you talk about how boring and slow baseball is. It must be like comparing the old house league (now B2 since house leagues are gone) to the A level in hockey.

My son plays at the 14 year old level and their state tournament for the MBT league is in Lakevile this weekend ( they are out , beaten by Burnsville last night) and the level of play is awesome. Kids throwing numerous types of pitches, picking guys off with great moves, unbelievable catches and plays in both infield and outfield, players hitting line drives, coming close to hitting HR's on fields with MLB dimensions executing bunts and coverages........very enjoyable to watch the talented kids.

While I coach hockey, I don't take anything away from bb. Hockey appeals to the more consistnent action that many kids need ( as do the parents).

Cost for my sons BB season will run in that $375 range for league and 6 tournaments. While bats are $200-300 they can be shared amongst the team as only 1 bats at a time. A pair of cleats and a glove that can be used over multiple seasons.

SCBlueLiner
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Post by SCBlueLiner » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:26 am

puckfan wrote:Wow ther comparison of bb to hockey......really like comparing apples to handgranades.
I can only imagine what level you are watching when you talk about how boring and slow baseball is. It must be like comparing the old house league (now B2 since house leagues are gone) to the A level in hockey.

My son plays at the 14 year old level and their state tournament for the MBT league is in Lakevile this weekend ( they are out , beaten by Burnsville last night) and the level of play is awesome. Kids throwing numerous types of pitches, picking guys off with great moves, unbelievable catches and plays in both infield and outfield, players hitting line drives, coming close to hitting HR's on fields with MLB dimensions executing bunts and coverages........very enjoyable to watch the talented kids.

While I coach hockey, I don't take anything away from bb. Hockey appeals to the more consistnent action that many kids need ( as do the parents).

Cost for my sons BB season will run in that $375 range for league and 6 tournaments. While bats are $200-300 they can be shared amongst the team as only 1 bats at a time. A pair of cleats and a glove that can be used over multiple seasons.
My original comments were about 10 & 11 yr olds playing baseball. I also agree that as the kids get older the game quality gets more exciting. It's just he's at an age right now where baseball can be somewhat slow.

I started this not to compare the two sports, they are apples and oranges. The concept for the thread was, as hockey people, observations you have while watching your kids play baseball. Not just about the game itself but about the whole feel of being at the park. Kind of how you view youth baseball from the hockey parent perspective.

JSR
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Post by JSR » Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:22 pm

InigoMontoya wrote:I'm going to call a little BS on Froggy. I won't disagree about hitting a baseball being the most difficult thing in sport. Your fondness of the game is inspiring, but there is nothing complex about backing up a throw or leading off. Baseball people like to talk about how cerebral the game is, it's not. It is for the geeks in the stands working out statistics in their heads and for national league managers about every fourth or fifth game, but not so much for the guys on the field; mostly, they just do what they are told. In the 20 minutes between each pitch coaches are hollering instructions, moving fielders around, and calling pitches from the dugout. The guys that make it in baseball are the guys that hit the ball a long way and throw it really hard. I played since I can remember - a little club ball in college, some town ball, still play organized old guy ball on occassion - I have played with and against a whole pile of really good baseball players that were flat out morons.
I am with intigo on this.... froggy sounds like the typical gray haired grandfather that understands baseball because it was all they had growing up so he likes to pontificate on the "complexities" of what really is the most simple to understand of all pro sprots I played baseball and hockey growing up and my youngest plays both as well and I have coached both.... sufficed to say I disagree that kids find hockey way easier to play than baseball at young ages... first I think good little "athletes" tend to be good at whatever sport they play AND like.... second I can actually name several little kids who have been playing baseball and hockey since the same age my son started and they still can't skate or stick handle tto save their lives but they can turn a double play in baseball and hit the snot out of the ball...... I think the real reason we see a bit more "progress" in hockey players is frankly because they play it alot more. Baseball for most towns and cities is still played the same way and coached the same way it was 30 years ago, which is to say it's a summer sport for the overwhelming majority of kids and if your 8 year olds are like ours down here the kids practice once a week and play one game a week, that is it... where as the same age kids are on the ice 4 days a week minimum in the October through March winter season then you have alll the spring and summer stuff on top of that (yes I am aware of traveling baseball teams and winter baseball trainings but they don't compare to what I see in hockey)... also folks who breakdown hockey to the simplest denomination while trying to inflate basbeall do so for a reason (they like it better) but the reality is all baseball is, is hitting a ball and running around a circle, how hard can that be (see how insulting it is when you break it down to it's simplest terms)...... basically it stands to reason the more you do something the better you get at it.... one other note, I do notice in baseball that the hockey players tend to be better at it than the kids who play other sports (thinking it's the hand eye coordination thing...).... lastly parents don't like lacrosse because it's easier to understand, baseball is the EASIEST game in the world to understand it's not because they don't understand it they just find it boring, they like lacrosse because it's active and fun to watch even though most of them DON'T understand it, whereas baseball is like watching paint dry for some peope,, even some people who fully understand all it's supposed complexities.... games like soccer, hockey and lacrosse are by far the most complex games to implement strategy because everything has to be done in the moment and on the fly and there are distinctly different strategies and philosophies offensively and defensively in the games tha the overwhelming majority of people don't understand and it's my theory that is why they don't gain traction, people find them too complex so they gravitate to easier to understand spors like baseball (or NASCAR) where they don't have to think as hard..... oh yeah and Lacrosse has been around more than couple years, I remember watching the college natioonal championships of Lacrosse in the late 1980's on ESPN, I believe they had twin brothers call the Gates brothers on the Syracuse team that won it all that year.... but I digress

Froggy Richards
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Post by Froggy Richards » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:10 am

JSR wrote:
InigoMontoya wrote:I'm going to call a little BS on Froggy. I won't disagree about hitting a baseball being the most difficult thing in sport. Your fondness of the game is inspiring, but there is nothing complex about backing up a throw or leading off. Baseball people like to talk about how cerebral the game is, it's not. It is for the geeks in the stands working out statistics in their heads and for national league managers about every fourth or fifth game, but not so much for the guys on the field; mostly, they just do what they are told. In the 20 minutes between each pitch coaches are hollering instructions, moving fielders around, and calling pitches from the dugout. The guys that make it in baseball are the guys that hit the ball a long way and throw it really hard. I played since I can remember - a little club ball in college, some town ball, still play organized old guy ball on occassion - I have played with and against a whole pile of really good baseball players that were flat out morons.
I am with intigo on this.... froggy sounds like the typical gray haired grandfather that understands baseball because it was all they had growing up so he likes to pontificate on the "complexities" of what really is the most simple to understand of all pro sprots I played baseball and hockey growing up and my youngest plays both as well and I have coached both.... sufficed to say I disagree that kids find hockey way easier to play than baseball at young ages... first I think good little "athletes" tend to be good at whatever sport they play AND like.... second I can actually name several little kids who have been playing baseball and hockey since the same age my son started and they still can't skate or stick handle tto save their lives but they can turn a double play in baseball and hit the snot out of the ball...... I think the real reason we see a bit more "progress" in hockey players is frankly because they play it alot more. Baseball for most towns and cities is still played the same way and coached the same way it was 30 years ago, which is to say it's a summer sport for the overwhelming majority of kids and if your 8 year olds are like ours down here the kids practice once a week and play one game a week, that is it... where as the same age kids are on the ice 4 days a week minimum in the October through March winter season then you have alll the spring and summer stuff on top of that (yes I am aware of traveling baseball teams and winter baseball trainings but they don't compare to what I see in hockey)... also folks who breakdown hockey to the simplest denomination while trying to inflate basbeall do so for a reason (they like it better) but the reality is all baseball is, is hitting a ball and running around a circle, how hard can that be (see how insulting it is when you break it down to it's simplest terms)...... basically it stands to reason the more you do something the better you get at it.... one other note, I do notice in baseball that the hockey players tend to be better at it than the kids who play other sports (thinking it's the hand eye coordination thing...).... lastly parents don't like lacrosse because it's easier to understand, baseball is the EASIEST game in the world to understand it's not because they don't understand it they just find it boring, they like lacrosse because it's active and fun to watch even though most of them DON'T understand it, whereas baseball is like watching paint dry for some peope,, even some people who fully understand all it's supposed complexities.... games like soccer, hockey and lacrosse are by far the most complex games to implement strategy because everything has to be done in the moment and on the fly and there are distinctly different strategies and philosophies offensively and defensively in the games tha the overwhelming majority of people don't understand and it's my theory that is why they don't gain traction, people find them too complex so they gravitate to easier to understand spors like baseball (or NASCAR) where they don't have to think as hard..... oh yeah and Lacrosse has been around more than couple years, I remember watching the college natioonal championships of Lacrosse in the late 1980's on ESPN, I believe they had twin brothers call the Gates brothers on the Syracuse team that won it all that year.... but I digress
Nope, not a grandfather yet. Started playing Hockey and Baseball in Kindergarten, played both through High School and some Amateur Baseball after that. Have coached both now for three years. I don't like Baseball better than Hockey, I like them both for different reasons. I don't think we'll ever agree on what a great game Baseball is so there is probably no point in dissecting all of your points. You sound like a lot of people that I know. Once they discover Hockey they often think of all other sports as second class. I get it. I live in a Hockey hotbed and it's kind of the way the culture is.

What I will say is that a lot of what makes Baseball great is more than just the game on the field. It's the sights and sounds of the surroundings and environment. The sunshine, the summer air, the hot dogs, peanuts, cold beer, fans chanting, the strike and out calls from the ump. I don't expect you to understand or appreciate it, but those that do know exactly what I'm talking about. I'm not trying to take anything away from Hockey, I love Hockey. But they are very different games in different environments, with different histories and vastly different things that make them great. Plus they are played in different seasons which is also great so that we can enjoy them both.

And I have nothing against Lacrosse. If that's your thing, then that's great too. As has been discussed, not everyone can hit a baseball. :lol:

JSR
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Post by JSR » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:42 pm

Froggy Richards wrote:
JSR wrote:
InigoMontoya wrote:I'm going to call a little BS on Froggy. I won't disagree about hitting a baseball being the most difficult thing in sport. Your fondness of the game is inspiring, but there is nothing complex about backing up a throw or leading off. Baseball people like to talk about how cerebral the game is, it's not. It is for the geeks in the stands working out statistics in their heads and for national league managers about every fourth or fifth game, but not so much for the guys on the field; mostly, they just do what they are told. In the 20 minutes between each pitch coaches are hollering instructions, moving fielders around, and calling pitches from the dugout. The guys that make it in baseball are the guys that hit the ball a long way and throw it really hard. I played since I can remember - a little club ball in college, some town ball, still play organized old guy ball on occassion - I have played with and against a whole pile of really good baseball players that were flat out morons.
I am with intigo on this.... froggy sounds like the typical gray haired grandfather that understands baseball because it was all they had growing up so he likes to pontificate on the "complexities" of what really is the most simple to understand of all pro sprots I played baseball and hockey growing up and my youngest plays both as well and I have coached both.... sufficed to say I disagree that kids find hockey way easier to play than baseball at young ages... first I think good little "athletes" tend to be good at whatever sport they play AND like.... second I can actually name several little kids who have been playing baseball and hockey since the same age my son started and they still can't skate or stick handle tto save their lives but they can turn a double play in baseball and hit the snot out of the ball...... I think the real reason we see a bit more "progress" in hockey players is frankly because they play it alot more. Baseball for most towns and cities is still played the same way and coached the same way it was 30 years ago, which is to say it's a summer sport for the overwhelming majority of kids and if your 8 year olds are like ours down here the kids practice once a week and play one game a week, that is it... where as the same age kids are on the ice 4 days a week minimum in the October through March winter season then you have alll the spring and summer stuff on top of that (yes I am aware of traveling baseball teams and winter baseball trainings but they don't compare to what I see in hockey)... also folks who breakdown hockey to the simplest denomination while trying to inflate basbeall do so for a reason (they like it better) but the reality is all baseball is, is hitting a ball and running around a circle, how hard can that be (see how insulting it is when you break it down to it's simplest terms)...... basically it stands to reason the more you do something the better you get at it.... one other note, I do notice in baseball that the hockey players tend to be better at it than the kids who play other sports (thinking it's the hand eye coordination thing...).... lastly parents don't like lacrosse because it's easier to understand, baseball is the EASIEST game in the world to understand it's not because they don't understand it they just find it boring, they like lacrosse because it's active and fun to watch even though most of them DON'T understand it, whereas baseball is like watching paint dry for some peope,, even some people who fully understand all it's supposed complexities.... games like soccer, hockey and lacrosse are by far the most complex games to implement strategy because everything has to be done in the moment and on the fly and there are distinctly different strategies and philosophies offensively and defensively in the games tha the overwhelming majority of people don't understand and it's my theory that is why they don't gain traction, people find them too complex so they gravitate to easier to understand spors like baseball (or NASCAR) where they don't have to think as hard..... oh yeah and Lacrosse has been around more than couple years, I remember watching the college natioonal championships of Lacrosse in the late 1980's on ESPN, I believe they had twin brothers call the Gates brothers on the Syracuse team that won it all that year.... but I digress
Nope, not a grandfather yet. Started playing Hockey and Baseball in Kindergarten, played both through High School and some Amateur Baseball after that. Have coached both now for three years. I don't like Baseball better than Hockey, I like them both for different reasons. I don't think we'll ever agree on what a great game Baseball is so there is probably no point in dissecting all of your points. You sound like a lot of people that I know. Once they discover Hockey they often think of all other sports as second class. I get it. I live in a Hockey hotbed and it's kind of the way the culture is.

What I will say is that a lot of what makes Baseball great is more than just the game on the field. It's the sights and sounds of the surroundings and environment. The sunshine, the summer air, the hot dogs, peanuts, cold beer, fans chanting, the strike and out calls from the ump. I don't expect you to understand or appreciate it, but those that do know exactly what I'm talking about. I'm not trying to take anything away from Hockey, I love Hockey. But they are very different games in different environments, with different histories and vastly different things that make them great. Plus they are played in different seasons which is also great so that we can enjoy them both.

And I have nothing against Lacrosse. If that's your thing, then that's great too. As has been discussed, not everyone can hit a baseball. :lol:
The kids who can't hit a baseball are the same kids who can't dribble a soccer ball, can't stick handle a puck, and can't catch or handle a lacrosse ball.... hitting a baseball is an overrated "skill" IMHO.... don't get me wrong I like baseball and I played it and soccer and hockey growing up, I just don't buy into the theory of how hard it is to hit a baseball or how complex the game is, is all..... if you want to argue "difficulty" in mastering a sport I still think Golf is #1 on that list, hitting a golf ball consistantly and with accuracy is by far the hardest thing to do in sports, I don't think it even compares, I think mastering skating while also stick handling is a distant second, followed by learning how to completely control a soccer ball with your FEET in third place, hitting a baseball is probably 5th or sixth

Froggy Richards
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Post by Froggy Richards » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:00 pm

You're comparing hitting a moving, round ball that is roughly the same size as a round bat to hitting a golf ball, sitting motionless on a tee, with a huge, square club head. The best Baseball hitter in the world gets a hit 35% of the time. The best golfers hit greens in regulation 75-80% of the time, and most of them aren't even athletes. But I'm sure those 70 year old guys breaking Par at the Country Club could easily step in the box and hit a 95 mph cut fastball.

After reading that last comment I'm guessing you have some sort of agenda here so I think it's pretty pointless to debate further.

JSR
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Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:26 pm

Post by JSR » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:57 pm

Froggy Richards wrote:You're comparing hitting a moving, round ball that is roughly the same size as a round bat to hitting a golf ball, sitting motionless on a tee, with a huge, square club head. The best Baseball hitter in the world gets a hit 35% of the time. The best golfers hit greens in regulation 75-80% of the time, and most of them aren't even athletes. But I'm sure those 70 year old guys breaking Par at the Country Club could easily step in the box and hit a 95 mph cut fastball.

After reading that last comment I'm guessing you have some sort of agenda here so I think it's pretty pointless to debate further.
No agenda at all... I just disagree completely with your assessment. It tells me you lack knowledge regardign sports other than baseball. You clearly had an agenda trying to elevate basebaqll above the other sports you continue to do so here with the inane idea that hitting percentage and greens in regulation are some how comparable statistics.... though the fact you brought those into he debate lend tons of credibility to intigo's asseertion that baseball "is for the geeks in the stands working out statistics in their heads" ..... your calling bazeball players athletes but golfers are not, talk about comical..... Your analogy about a 70 year old country club guy breaking par and hitting a 95 mph fastball is beyond ridiculous considering the country club guy is not playing a professional course laid out the way it would be for a pro tourney, that 70 year old wouldn't come even remotely close to breaking par on a course like that but he might take a cut at that fastball........ see how easy it is to shoot down that type of nonsensical thinking.... my only agenda is to show you that your thought process is flawed, I don't really give a rip about any of this other than that.... it's great that you love baseball, if you love it then there is zero wrong with that and you explained why you love it (most of which had nothing to do with athletics) but just leave it at loving the sport, quit professing how complex and difficult it is when it simply is not.... let me put it anotehr way, if hitting a baseball is so hard, why do they have so many different types of pitches (sliders, curves, knuckle, fast ball etc...), I will tell you why, because the sinmple act of just hitting the ball is jsut that, it's simple, if all they threw were fastballs hitters would probably hit in the neighborhood of .850 instead of .350..... the only "skill" in baseball is being able to throw different pitches properly so as to keep a hitter guessing a bit, outside of that the rest is just not that tough

O-townClown
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Post by O-townClown » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:55 pm

Comparing golf and baseball is an apple and a grapefruit. In golf you are supposed to hit your shot pretty much straight and in baseball it can go almost anywhere and be considered a success.

No idea which is supposed to be harder.
Be kind. Rewind.

Froggy Richards
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Post by Froggy Richards » Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:32 pm

JSR wrote:
Froggy Richards wrote:You're comparing hitting a moving, round ball that is roughly the same size as a round bat to hitting a golf ball, sitting motionless on a tee, with a huge, square club head. The best Baseball hitter in the world gets a hit 35% of the time. The best golfers hit greens in regulation 75-80% of the time, and most of them aren't even athletes. But I'm sure those 70 year old guys breaking Par at the Country Club could easily step in the box and hit a 95 mph cut fastball.

After reading that last comment I'm guessing you have some sort of agenda here so I think it's pretty pointless to debate further.
No agenda at all... I just disagree completely with your assessment. It tells me you lack knowledge regardign sports other than baseball. You clearly had an agenda trying to elevate basebaqll above the other sports you continue to do so here with the inane idea that hitting percentage and greens in regulation are some how comparable statistics.... though the fact you brought those into he debate lend tons of credibility to intigo's asseertion that baseball "is for the geeks in the stands working out statistics in their heads" ..... your calling bazeball players athletes but golfers are not, talk about comical..... Your analogy about a 70 year old country club guy breaking par and hitting a 95 mph fastball is beyond ridiculous considering the country club guy is not playing a professional course laid out the way it would be for a pro tourney, that 70 year old wouldn't come even remotely close to breaking par on a course like that but he might take a cut at that fastball........ see how easy it is to shoot down that type of nonsensical thinking.... my only agenda is to show you that your thought process is flawed, I don't really give a rip about any of this other than that.... it's great that you love baseball, if you love it then there is zero wrong with that and you explained why you love it (most of which had nothing to do with athletics) but just leave it at loving the sport, quit professing how complex and difficult it is when it simply is not.... let me put it anotehr way, if hitting a baseball is so hard, why do they have so many different types of pitches (sliders, curves, knuckle, fast ball etc...), I will tell you why, because the sinmple act of just hitting the ball is jsut that, it's simple, if all they threw were fastballs hitters would probably hit in the neighborhood of .850 instead of .350..... the only "skill" in baseball is being able to throw different pitches properly so as to keep a hitter guessing a bit, outside of that the rest is just not that tough
Hitting Percentage is a Volleyball Stat. In Baseball it's called Batting Average. Nobody who ever played organized Baseball would use that term, so you can quit pretending that you ever played. That's like me saying that Basketball is easy. My opinion would mean nothing since I never played it.

You said hitting a golf ball consistently and accurately is the hardest thing to do in sports. Greens in Regulation is the exact stat that measures that, just like Batting Average measures hitting success in baseball.

But since you don't like stats, how about a simple question instead? Joe Mauer is one of the best Baseball players in the world. Phil Mickelson is one of the best Golfers in the world. Who do you think is a better Athlete?

Ugottobekiddingme
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Post by Ugottobekiddingme » Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:46 pm

Without confusing our friends from Wisconsin, replace Mauer with Robin Yount for a more complete answer. Actually I will take a stab at it and say Michael Jordon was the better athlete than all three. God I wish he played hockey....

InigoMontoya
Posts: 1716
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:36 pm

Post by InigoMontoya » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:46 am

I think the 13th kid on a hockey team feels like he contributes more to the success of his team than the 13th kid on a baseball team.

Mite-dad
Posts: 1113
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:16 am

Post by Mite-dad » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:46 am

I love both sports, but think about it, at an U11 baseball tournament, a kid can stand around in the outfield for hours and not get a play. Sometimes they play every other inning. Maybe the kid gets two at-bats during the game. The same kid gets a shift in hockey going full blast for 45 seconds to 1 1/2 minutes every 3 or 4 minutes. Same thing for parents. They get to see Johnny on the ice every 3-4 minutes as opposed to getting an at-bat every 30-45 minutes. It's easy to see why many prefer hockey in today's caffeinated society.

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