Open vs Closed Tryouts

Discussion of Minnesota Youth Hockey

Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)

What is better open or closed tryouts ?

Poll ended at Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:40 pm

Open
30
65%
Closed
16
35%
 
Total votes: 46

old goalie85
Posts: 3696
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:37 pm

Open vs Closed Tryouts

Post by old goalie85 » Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:40 pm

Trying to gather data for our next board meeting. We [FL] have closed tryouts. Would like to know what Assc have open. Thanks.

edgeless2
Posts: 608
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:08 pm

Post by edgeless2 » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:22 pm

I've never seen the upside in closed tryouts. It seems that it lends itself to suspicion. I understand that Some parents see their kids through rose colored glasses, but that will be the case open or closed. I think that open tryouts would lead to open more avenues of communications within the process. I also have experienced less than forthcoming tryout process evaluation criteria. There also could be more communication as to how evaluators are chosen. Just to qualify my kids have only participated in closed tryouts. I would love to hear the pros and cons of the open tryout process.

old goalie85
Posts: 3696
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:37 pm

Post by old goalie85 » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:37 pm

Thanks- I would like to know if the Edina/Zeta/EP or anyone has open or closed. I like the idea of open tryouts.

SammyOB
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:04 pm

Post by SammyOB » Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:15 pm

old goalie85 wrote:Thanks- I would like to know if the Edina/Zeta/EP or anyone has open or closed. I like the idea of open tryouts.
Hermantown has open tryouts and it is a mess. Don't do it.

Puckstopper81
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 10:38 pm

Post by Puckstopper81 » Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:04 pm

SammyOB wrote:
old goalie85 wrote:Thanks- I would like to know if the Edina/Zeta/EP or anyone has open or closed. I like the idea of open tryouts.
Hermantown has open tryouts and it is a mess. Don't do it.
EP has closed tryouts and it works just fine. Keep the parents out of it and let the kids skate on their own without mommy and daddy watching them from the stands.

spin-o-rama
Posts: 547
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:30 pm

Post by spin-o-rama » Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:50 pm

open all the way.
Parents should be able to watch their minor children.
Coaches and evaluators should be shown a taste of the parent behavior they are getting into.

Edina has open tryouts. Kids wear their jerseys from the previous year with their name on the back. Very transparent. And the difference between 15 and 16, 30 and 31, etc with 150+ trying out is a lot closer than with 30-50.

That doesn't mean there's not a Braemar Blow Up every now and then.

edgeless2
Posts: 608
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:08 pm

Post by edgeless2 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:21 am

Puckstopper81 wrote:
SammyOB wrote:
old goalie85 wrote:Thanks- I would like to know if the Edina/Zeta/EP or anyone has open or closed. I like the idea of open tryouts.
Hermantown has open tryouts and it is a mess. Don't do it.
EP has closed tryouts and it works just fine. Keep the parents out of it and let the kids skate on their own without mommy and daddy watching them from the stands.
So Edina and Hermantown have open tryouts, EP closed tryouts. It seems in the past 4 years these are the teams that EP has had trouble with. Who is it working out fine for? Just looking for some reasoning behind closed tryouts besides "it works just fine"? How does having open tryouts hinder fielding the best possible team?

goaliedad31
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:17 am

Post by goaliedad31 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:14 am

EP's tryouts work well for the Board member kids.

savagegopher
Posts: 75
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:20 am

Post by savagegopher » Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:52 am

Prior Lake has closed tryouts; it may take some of the pressure off the kids without dad peering down from the stands, plus it may give the evaluator some insight on how the kid acts on his own.

Teamusa1980
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu May 30, 2013 2:22 pm

Post by Teamusa1980 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:26 am

The intent of tryouts is for everyone to be evaluated on his/her own merit, correct? Our association went to closed tryouts 6 years ago. Our board cited the main reason for going closed was because of how much of a distraction the parents were during the process. The board actually studied tryouts the year prior to changing. They found too many players were hyper focused on what parents were doing rather than concentrating on the task at hand. Squirt/U10 were a mess, Peewee/U12 was a little better and Bantams had few issues. If a parent wants to distract their own kid that is one thing. But when a whack job parent distracts others that is when it becomes a real problem. For those of you who are pro open tryouts I have 2 questions for you. 1. What are you going to gain by watching? 2. What would make you more upset, not being able to watch tryouts OR your kid screwing up an evaluated drill, getting a poor grade, ultimately not making the desired team all because they were distracted by another parent???? Give your kid a hug, tell them good luck, take a deep breath and let the chips fall where they may.

MrBoDangles
Posts: 4082
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:32 pm

Post by MrBoDangles » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:05 pm

You boys are contradicting yourselves..

Don't you want to see the real player you're going to get during the season when their parents are in the stands?

Some tryouts are closed so there's no complaining when the Beer Bubble Kids are picked over a better bubble kid. :D

JSR
Posts: 1673
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:26 pm

Post by JSR » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:11 pm

There are very very few parents who "distract" their kids during a tryout process..... Further these are young children in many cases, epsecially at the squirt level, and they deserve their parents to be there if they want them there. To me a closed tryout would be far more pressure on ayoung child. I also agree that the ones who want a closed tryout are usually the ones with something to hide....

MrBoDangles
Posts: 4082
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:32 pm

Post by MrBoDangles » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:20 pm

Having open tryouts forces everyone to be more honest.

packer18
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:21 pm

Post by packer18 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:30 pm

could you imagine on an open tryout having a parent film the tryout bring it to a board meeting to say "look at my kid he's great why isnt he on the *** team" no fun at all. my son likes the closed tryout and has been in open ones also. he dosent have to hear the parents say great shot or catch a pass kid or parent jumping for joy when little johnny scores he states there are alot of bad comments of jealously that come from the stands and are very distracting to him and his teammates. When they were open he said they used to joke about different parents and what they said. I like the closed tryouts and let the chips fall where they my be.

DrGaf
Posts: 636
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:08 pm

Post by DrGaf » Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:30 pm

My kids have been involved in all open tryouts in the north metro, and I have helped evaluate (tips not expected, but appreciated) <--- JOKE. an open tryout twice in the far SE metro.

Never have had, nor seen unruly parents. Mind you, one of the associations did have a stipulation that YOUR KID will be asked to leave the ice if you were deemed a distraction. From what I hear, it happened once ... ONCE.
Sorry, fresh out, Don't Really Give Any.

edgeless2
Posts: 608
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:08 pm

Post by edgeless2 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:31 pm

packer18 wrote:could you imagine on an open tryout having a parent film the tryout bring it to a board meeting to say "look at my kid he's great why isnt he on the *** team" no fun at all. my son likes the closed tryout and has been in open ones also. he dosent have to hear the parents say great shot or catch a pass kid or parent jumping for joy when little johnny scores he states there are alot of bad comments of jealously that come from the stands and are very distracting to him and his teammates. When they were open he said they used to joke about different parents and what they said. I like the closed tryouts and let the chips fall where they my be.
OK I have to ask. How in the world can your son hear bad comments of jealousy coming from the stands when he is either on the ice or on the bench. Sounds like a stretch. Obviously there are are crazed parents out there with either open or closed tryouts. The process inherently lends itself to conflict when it comes to bubble kids at every level. I would think at the very least every effort at transparency would improve lines of communication and the process in general. No one has been able to answer my simple question of, How do open tryouts hinder the process of fielding the best team? I would also ask how lack of transparency helps field the best team?

Crusty
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:24 am

Post by Crusty » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:10 pm

Teamusa1980 wrote:The intent of tryouts is for everyone to be evaluated on his/her own merit, correct? Our association went to closed tryouts 6 years ago. Our board cited the main reason for going closed was because of how much of a distraction the parents were during the process. The board actually studied tryouts the year prior to changing. They found too many players were hyper focused on what parents were doing rather than concentrating on the task at hand. Squirt/U10 were a mess, Peewee/U12 was a little better and Bantams had few issues. If a parent wants to distract their own kid that is one thing. But when a whack job parent distracts others that is when it becomes a real problem. For those of you who are pro open tryouts I have 2 questions for you. 1. What are you going to gain by watching? 2. What would make you more upset, not being able to watch tryouts OR your kid screwing up an evaluated drill, getting a poor grade, ultimately not making the desired team all because they were distracted by another parent???? Give your kid a hug, tell them good luck, take a deep breath and let the chips fall where they may.
I totaly agree with this statement. I've been a non-parent coach for years, and I have seen both types of tryouts, and really can't say which is better. But I want you parents to ask your kids what they want, and I gaurantee at least 90% if not more will want closed tryouts. I've been an evaluator at many tryouts, for all ages, I have asked these kids in the lockerooms the question of do you want there parents watching, and majority of the time, the answer is NO!! They don't want you parents watching and critiqing everything they do, they hear enough of that crap on the drive home. They do feel the pressure of the tryouts, and there is added pressure with the parents in attendance. I mean, how much do the parents in attendance really know about hockey anyway.

My advice is, drop your kids off and go to the bar or get a cup of cooffee and try to relax, chances are your baby is not going to make the NHL or even play D1 college hockey or play hockey past the bantam level. Youth hockey is a very short time of their lives, lets try to make it a positive and fun expirience.

JSR
Posts: 1673
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:26 pm

Post by JSR » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:21 pm

packer18 wrote:could you imagine on an open tryout having a parent film the tryout bring it to a board meeting to say "look at my kid he's great why isnt he on the *** team" no fun at all. my son likes the closed tryout and has been in open ones also. he dosent have to hear the parents say great shot or catch a pass kid or parent jumping for joy when little johnny scores he states there are alot of bad comments of jealously that come from the stands and are very distracting to him and his teammates. When they were open he said they used to joke about different parents and what they said. I like the closed tryouts and let the chips fall where they my be.
I am calling B.S. and saying this is completely made up. My son has told me atleast a dozen times "I can't hear a thing fromt he stands when I am on the ice"... the idea that any kid is hearing "commentary" I think is fabricated

JSR
Posts: 1673
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:26 pm

Post by JSR » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:26 pm

Crusty wrote:
Teamusa1980 wrote:The intent of tryouts is for everyone to be evaluated on his/her own merit, correct? Our association went to closed tryouts 6 years ago. Our board cited the main reason for going closed was because of how much of a distraction the parents were during the process. The board actually studied tryouts the year prior to changing. They found too many players were hyper focused on what parents were doing rather than concentrating on the task at hand. Squirt/U10 were a mess, Peewee/U12 was a little better and Bantams had few issues. If a parent wants to distract their own kid that is one thing. But when a whack job parent distracts others that is when it becomes a real problem. For those of you who are pro open tryouts I have 2 questions for you. 1. What are you going to gain by watching? 2. What would make you more upset, not being able to watch tryouts OR your kid screwing up an evaluated drill, getting a poor grade, ultimately not making the desired team all because they were distracted by another parent???? Give your kid a hug, tell them good luck, take a deep breath and let the chips fall where they may.
I totaly agree with this statement. I've been a non-parent coach for years, and I have seen both types of tryouts, and really can't say which is better. But I want you parents to ask your kids what they want, and I gaurantee at least 90% if not more will want closed tryouts. I've been an evaluator at many tryouts, for all ages, I have asked these kids in the lockerooms the question of do you want there parents watching, and majority of the time, the answer is NO!! They don't want you parents watching and critiqing everything they do, they hear enough of that crap on the drive home. They do feel the pressure of the tryouts, and there is added pressure with the parents in attendance. I mean, how much do the parents in attendance really know about hockey anyway.

My advice is, drop your kids off and go to the bar or get a cup of cooffee and try to relax, chances are your baby is not going to make the NHL or even play D1 college hockey or play hockey past the bantam level. Youth hockey is a very short time of their lives, lets try to make it a positive and fun expirience.
I think you are way over the top with your 90% number.... completely made up stat, but if we are goign to GUESS what the percentage is, I would bet it is more like 30-40% would want closed tryouts, and 50-60% probably could care less if they were open or closed and maybe 5-10% would want open tryouts and I think I am being generous on the 30-40% wanting closed, I think the majority do not care either way

Crusty
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:24 am

Post by Crusty » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:35 pm

JSR wrote:
Crusty wrote:
Teamusa1980 wrote:The intent of tryouts is for everyone to be evaluated on his/her own merit, correct? Our association went to closed tryouts 6 years ago. Our board cited the main reason for going closed was because of how much of a distraction the parents were during the process. The board actually studied tryouts the year prior to changing. They found too many players were hyper focused on what parents were doing rather than concentrating on the task at hand. Squirt/U10 were a mess, Peewee/U12 was a little better and Bantams had few issues. If a parent wants to distract their own kid that is one thing. But when a whack job parent distracts others that is when it becomes a real problem. For those of you who are pro open tryouts I have 2 questions for you. 1. What are you going to gain by watching? 2. What would make you more upset, not being able to watch tryouts OR your kid screwing up an evaluated drill, getting a poor grade, ultimately not making the desired team all because they were distracted by another parent???? Give your kid a hug, tell them good luck, take a deep breath and let the chips fall where they may.
I totaly agree with this statement. I've been a non-parent coach for years, and I have seen both types of tryouts, and really can't say which is better. But I want you parents to ask your kids what they want, and I gaurantee at least 90% if not more will want closed tryouts. I've been an evaluator at many tryouts, for all ages, I have asked these kids in the lockerooms the question of do you want there parents watching, and majority of the time, the answer is NO!! They don't want you parents watching and critiqing everything they do, they hear enough of that crap on the drive home. They do feel the pressure of the tryouts, and there is added pressure with the parents in attendance. I mean, how much do the parents in attendance really know about hockey anyway.

My advice is, drop your kids off and go to the bar or get a cup of cooffee and try to relax, chances are your baby is not going to make the NHL or even play D1 college hockey or play hockey past the bantam level. Youth hockey is a very short time of their lives, lets try to make it a positive and fun expirience.
I think you are way over the top with your 90% number.... completely made up stat, but if we are goign to GUESS what the percentage is, I would bet it is more like 30-40% would want closed tryouts, and 50-60% probably could care less if they were open or closed and maybe 5-10% would want open tryouts and I think I am being generous on the 30-40% wanting closed, I think the majority do not care either way

JSR, how many times have you set foot in a lockeroom at tryouts and asked the kids that question of open or closed tryouts..? When you have a chance to do that, get back to us and let us know, I think you will be suprised at what you hear.

Teamusa1980
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu May 30, 2013 2:22 pm

Post by Teamusa1980 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:46 pm

Appears the real issue for everyone who is against closed tryouts is trust. Quit insinuating there is corruption going on within your associations tryout process as a way to justify your lot in life. If you don't feel the process is fair then get on the board and see for yourself. However, you probably won't like what you see and then there is nobody else to blame.

DrGaf
Posts: 636
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:08 pm

Post by DrGaf » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:52 pm

Crusty wrote:
JSR wrote:
Crusty wrote:
Teamusa1980 wrote:The intent of tryouts is for everyone to be evaluated on his/her own merit, correct? Our association went to closed tryouts 6 years ago. Our board cited the main reason for going closed was because of how much of a distraction the parents were during the process. The board actually studied tryouts the year prior to changing. They found too many players were hyper focused on what parents were doing rather than concentrating on the task at hand. Squirt/U10 were a mess, Peewee/U12 was a little better and Bantams had few issues. If a parent wants to distract their own kid that is one thing. But when a whack job parent distracts others that is when it becomes a real problem. For those of you who are pro open tryouts I have 2 questions for you. 1. What are you going to gain by watching? 2. What would make you more upset, not being able to watch tryouts OR your kid screwing up an evaluated drill, getting a poor grade, ultimately not making the desired team all because they were distracted by another parent???? Give your kid a hug, tell them good luck, take a deep breath and let the chips fall where they may.
I totaly agree with this statement. I've been a non-parent coach for years, and I have seen both types of tryouts, and really can't say which is better. But I want you parents to ask your kids what they want, and I gaurantee at least 90% if not more will want closed tryouts. I've been an evaluator at many tryouts, for all ages, I have asked these kids in the lockerooms the question of do you want there parents watching, and majority of the time, the answer is NO!! They don't want you parents watching and critiqing everything they do, they hear enough of that crap on the drive home. They do feel the pressure of the tryouts, and there is added pressure with the parents in attendance. I mean, how much do the parents in attendance really know about hockey anyway.

My advice is, drop your kids off and go to the bar or get a cup of cooffee and try to relax, chances are your baby is not going to make the NHL or even play D1 college hockey or play hockey past the bantam level. Youth hockey is a very short time of their lives, lets try to make it a positive and fun expirience.
I think you are way over the top with your 90% number.... completely made up stat, but if we are goign to GUESS what the percentage is, I would bet it is more like 30-40% would want closed tryouts, and 50-60% probably could care less if they were open or closed and maybe 5-10% would want open tryouts and I think I am being generous on the 30-40% wanting closed, I think the majority do not care either way

JSR, how many times have you set foot in a lockeroom at tryouts and asked the kids that question of open or closed tryouts..? When you have a chance to do that, get back to us and let us know, I think you will be suprised at what you hear.
I don't coach anymore, but have been around the game for about 40 years. This has come up in discussion more than just in this thread.

I agree with one side ... The kids, for the most part, could care less.

BUT

I do agree with Krusty on the "go have a beer / coffee" suggestion though.
If you sitting there watching your kid, it will have really no bearing on whether or not they "really dig deep" to get over that bubble. All it will do is fuel the truth you already know. Now, whether your reality is that your wunderkind is Not good enough or got the shaft from politics, you'll just prove yourself right either way.

Enjoy the season guys, pretty soon you're be filling out college apps. :(

For what it's worth, in my humble opinion,
Sorry, fresh out, Don't Really Give Any.

MrBoDangles
Posts: 4082
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:32 pm

Post by MrBoDangles » Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:49 pm

Teamusa1980 wrote:Appears the real issue for everyone who is against closed tryouts is trust. Quit insinuating there is corruption going on within your associations tryout process as a way to justify your lot in life. If you don't feel the process is fair then get on the board and see for yourself. However, you probably won't like what you see and then there is nobody else to blame.
It wasn't long ago that I could trust my Country's government.

How much money is District 2 missing?

But we should know for sure that a coach/eval wouldn't give help to some beer buddy's kids...? 90 percent of the the time you're not gonna find an Honest Abe.

An open tryout leaves things all out in the "open". And I would hope that everyone on here would want their kid playing with the best possible players even if it means you can't hang with your fishing buddy if his kid doesn't quite make it. We've all been through it.

SWPrez
Posts: 370
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:48 am

Post by SWPrez » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:49 pm

Minneapolis goes open. We have a detailed tryout document...which includes a Parental Conduct section. Here is our Peewee one from last year (parental expectations are the last section):

http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/docu ... mation.pdf

edgeless2
Posts: 608
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:08 pm

Post by edgeless2 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:37 pm

SWPrez wrote:Minneapolis goes open. We have a detailed tryout document...which includes a Parental Conduct section. Here is our Peewee one from last year (parental expectations are the last section):

http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/docu ... mation.pdf
This type of approach makes all the sense in the world. You have full transparency. You have full disclosure of the process. You have a leash on all those pesky meddlesome parents. You have eliminated the mistrust of the process. Kudos for having a common sense approach.

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