Karl, thanks for splitting this thread, and opening a chance for a respectful discussion.
BadgerBob, In no way do I think the sky is falling - far from it! I am grateful for the wonderful opportunities here in MN. My reasons for posting comes from being blessed with two kids who love hockey, being an involved hockey parent - yet experiencing situations of frustration around C level hockey, and dealing with something that no one wants to talk about, potentially 'dangerous' for our kids youth experience, politically incorrect and like a big, obvious secret. I appreciate my post didn't get ignored and thankful for some open discussion.
I'm
very grateful our local kids have a good association that for the most part values
all players (without a sense of keeping C level players for their $). Last year in particular, it seemed to me that many associations "ignored" their C levels, evidenced by our scrimmages, games and tournys - very lopsided, uneven play. My kid's team worked hard and earned 1 place in the standings throughout the season - well over .500. They did develop, had good coaching, wanted those wins and had a fun, spectacular season. I can't, and don't wish to speak to whether maybe they aught to have been a B team. I'm obviously not a hockey expert (nor do I play one on TV
. But I am a thoughtful, reasonably intelligent person who'd like to at least approach reasonable discussion (which seems difficult given the passions, traditions and history of MN hockey).
I think the situation is a "general' one - that most associations, and a general attitude/expectation/desire - whether we want to admit it or not, is to create 'elite' athletes. (Scholarships, recruitment, etc, while factors, are in my mind seperate to this discussion). Generally speaking, the interest, focus, support, resources, attention, development goes to the A-B teams. Yet we all know, whether we want to admit it or not, most of the players and parents at the C level are just as competitive, passionate, committed, hard-working as the rest of the players - and love the game just as much.
I wish I had some good ideas to bring to the discussion. And, believe me, I'm already implementing some of your ideas, (Thanks SWPrez!), thinking about posts, interested and curious in members thoughts and ideas. I'm thankful this forum is willing to thoughtfully discuss. And hopefully not see again the post: "Who cares about the best of the worst", even if it's supposed to be a joke.
My biggest concern is the lack of interest, respect and disparity of C level hockey - lots of hard working deserving kids just don't get the development that other teams get - yet pay the same (except for the highest level roster fees). The "elite competition" vs "rec hockey" is an endless debate that I think is defeating and shortsighted. Further, particularly here in MN, I do not think they are mutually exclusive!
Years ago my eldest tried out for the first time with a small, wealthy, metro association. After tryouts, the board told myself and a group of parents representing about 6-8 kids, @ 7 yrs old, that our kids just weren't very good, they could tell they'd never be very good, and they should go play Park Board hockey. And, as the association fed into the Olympic organization, were held to a strict, elite standard. They felt it just wouldn't be a good fit for our kids. Soon after, this group of parents requested waivers from the board, as 3 other nearby associations had welcomed our kids. Then we learned the truth - they were short C level coaches. Interestingly, coaches miraculously appeared and our kids had a team. A ridiculous situation, but pertinent to this discussion, this wouldn't have occurred had this association, deemed these kids A-B players. Begging another question - really? At 7 yrs old its obvious who is an Olympic athlete? And as an association, those are the
only kids you want? Thankfully those kids went on to have good youth hockey experiences, most played HS hockey, more than a few were recruited to college and most now are terrific youth coaches. Thankfully, the parents supported each other, saw the lunacy, challenged and persevered. But I often wonder how any of us would have dealt with the situation alone or with just a few parents.
I tell this story not out of anger or bitterness (we clearly had a good outcome - and board elections). I think it illustrates that unfortunately not much has changed, and I think it's to bad. I wonder, and often think, do we lose more kids to this kind of stuff than to cost, time commitment, physical danger concerns, etc. (I think it's important to note here, I'm not one of those "everyone's a winner - trophies and medals for all!" Kids are smart and this attitude devalues hard work, competition and talent. Don't have your kids play team sports if you can't learn or stand to lose.)
Again, I don't think the sky is falling - far from it! My family and I love hockey, I'm thrilled my kids love to play! I didn't grow up in MN or in an area with hockey, but have grown to love this awesome sport. Yes, it can get expensive, but I think it's an incredible value. And there's lots a ways to keep costs reasonable. And, much of the value, fun and best part for me other than watching my kids play and loving it, are that hockey folks just rock!
SWprez- Thanks for your ideas, I've already started some implementation.