registered association hockey players in the Twin Cities

[warmskin]

I have talked to a number of parents in various hockey programs around the metro and with the exception of Edina it seems like most programs are down in total hockey players both boys and girls. Interested to hear the numbers of your association. Leading question...what is the future of hockey in MN?
Club hockey?

[ramstein]

I have talked to a number of parents in various hockey programs around the metro and with the exception of Edina it seems like most programs are down in total hockey players both boys and girls. Interested to hear the numbers of your association. Leading question...what is the future of hockey in MN?
Club hockey?

As long as volunteerism is on the decline and everyone wants big shiny arenas to play in this will continue because the money has to come from somewhere and the association fees and ice costs keep going up....it will become a rich family sport

[warmskin]

Hockey is already an expensive sport. I have talked to board members at a couple of hockey assoc who have mentioned they are giving more financial assistance every year. Are hockey manufacturers doing themselves any good by coming out with new and more expensive equipment every year?

[MNM JMH]

Are hockey manufacturers doing themselves any good by coming out with new and more expensive equipment every year?[/quote]

Are you really asking this as a Question?

Yes the "Hockey Manufacturers" are doing them selfs good. They keep selling it don't they?

[dlow]

Hockey is already an expensive sport. I have talked to board members at a couple of hockey assoc who have mentioned they are giving more financial assistance every year. Are hockey manufacturers doing themselves any good by coming out with new and more expensive equipment every year?

No. In the long run they will price out many customers.

[warmskin]

I watched a Peewee AA game tonight with a team from Elk River that had 2 girls on the team. Nothing against the girls but this doesn't look for boys teams in the future.

[goldy313]

Hockey in many or even most places is now a year around activity and with that comes greatly increased costs. That forces families to decide early on whether that's the path they want to go down or not. We're told from Supermites on development, development, development is the only way to go and the the only way to achieve that is more and more camps, clinics, teams, etc. Hockey "season" increasingly infringes on baseball, soccer, football, summer vaction, among other things again forcing parents to make a choice. That will have an effect on numbers in both the long and short term, and that effect can also be seen on the football field and baseball diamond in decreasing numbers there as well as kids specialize at an earlier and earlier age.

We've killed off the Rec leagues which by and large subsidized the travel leagues, making hockey more expensive for even the casual player.

The Mighty Ducks program helped build rinks all over, the problem was all too often this was poor financial policy. Few took the time to see the costs associated with running these rinks over the long term like insurance, upkeep, heat, water, debt servicing, etc. Now the associations are forced to buy more ice time at increasing rates to keep these buildings running. More ice time equates to higher fees, higher fees equates to less players, less players equates to higher fees...a death spiral.

[warmskin]

it would be interesting if somebody did a study of cause and effect of increasing costs and specialization. Bauer and Hockey Canada did a study that only about 10% of boys in Canada play hockey so they think there is room for growth. I would think USAHockey/MN Hockey would want to know trends in hockey participation.

[SCBlueLiner]

I don't know. I don't think there needs to be shiny ice palaces all over the place. This summer our boys had more fun playing in that old barn in White Bear Lake than they did at the shiny palaces at Vadnais Heights or the Super Rink.

I like the old places. They got character. Smells like hockey when you first open the doors.

[warmskin]

My favorite was the old Williams Arena with the slanting roof below the basketball seating and in the winter they opened the windows to give the real outdoor feel.
Vadnais Heights claimed they had all kinds of interest in buying their ice palace for $10 million but nothing has materialized. I talked to one serious buyer who told me to pay the bills and service the debt the place was worth about $4 million.
Too many athletic facilities are built with overly enthusiast politicians and boosters who think they have the secret sauce but in reality drink the koolaide.

[stromboli]

I watched a Peewee AA game tonight with a team from Elk River that had 2 girls on the team. Nothing against the girls but this doesn't look for boys teams in the future.

It's not unusual to see high-end girls compete with the boys through PWs. Other teams within D10 have had the same in recent years, let alone across the state. It's not something new.

I say kudos to the girls, both that they made the team, and that they did so in an association that competes at a high level year after year.

[BluehawkHockey]

I watched a Peewee AA game tonight with a team from Elk River that had 2 girls on the team. Nothing against the girls but this doesn't look for boys teams in the future.

I don't think it is a bad sign for the future of boys hockey. I think it is actually a bad sign for girls hockey especially in the smaller associations. Take D10 for example. 2 associations (Blaine and Centennial) have the numbers in girls hockey to consistently field an A and B team and often a 3rd team. All the other associations in D10 have in the recent past or are currently co-oping to be able to find teams for their girls. And from what I have seen the number of girls are slowly dropping in all these other associations.

The best girls really don't have much choice anymore but to play squirts, peewees and sometimes bantams. Oddly enough, eliminating checking from the peewee level has helped the girls more than the boys.

When the smaller associations really only have maybe 3 or 4 A skilled girls at a level, they don't really have a chance to compete with Blaine and Centennial at that level. Every summer and fall, the associations scramble to find a new association to co-op with. So the girls don't get used to playing with the same girls every year. At least by playing on the boys teams, the top girls get that consistency and a chance to push themselves.

Let face it, for many of these smaller associations, heck even most big associations, the girls programs aren't given any priority. If the associations cared about the girls programs, they would work toward building permanent co-ops that benefit the girls in both associations. D10 tried to push for this a couple years ago for A level teams, the associations killed it.

Until the associations care about building strong girls programs, the number of girls playing will continue to slowly drop. And the number of girls playing hockey with the boys will continue to climb.

[warmskin]

I am also hearing that the girls programs even the big associations are loosing girls, again it would be interesting to see some real numbers.
I realize in Peewees there is no checking but there are some big boys that if a girl skated into them could cause some problems.
At the rec, mite and squirt levels I don't see a problem mixing boys and girls but by Peewees some of the boys start hitting puberty and there can be some significant size disparities. For reasons not even medical research has figured out girls have far more athletic injuries, especially joints, then boys.
As somebody who owns a private hockey program in Edina (no names) has been known to tell parents of high school aged girls, it is not a matter of if, it is a matter of when your daughter will have some type of joint surgery.
I also realize smaller assoc may need girls for numbers on the boys teams but hopefully they are not playing the AA teams with some bigger boys.

[Snap Happy]

Warmskin maybe it has to do with the overall cost of hockey... and nothing to do with club hockey....

[warmskin]

What I think I am seeing in youth hockey in MN is that smaller associations are having a hard time with getting enough players and a few of the larger associations are still growing or at least maintaining numbers. If you look at MN Made Hockey they draw kids from primarily from smaller or weaker assoc in the Twin Cities with a few traveling farther and essentially they are club hockey. I think if numbers continue to decline (if indeed they are) and the budget pressures on high schools continue, the model of having club hockey will probably gain steam. There is already discussion about the various levels of 'recruiting' at high school level through open enrollment (public schools) and direct recruiting (private schools). Yes, cost is a major factor but I think it will essentially lead to consolidation with club hockey being the upper tier and rec hockey hopefully still surviving.

[SWPrez]

We still have a couple weeks left of registering mighty mites and 6U's, but here is where Minneapolis is....2012/13 registrants: 691; 2013/14 registrants: 731. This is after losing approx. 15 14U's that decided to skate JV hockey.

We upped our investment in recruiting this year and are seeing positive results. For the last ten years we have made recruiting the most important role for our program (hockey development, competitiveness, etc. all follow once you have the kids). We have grown from just over 400 players (Washburn and Southwest combined) at that time to our current number today.

Our biggest problem will be ice availability in the future...a good problem to have.

[warmskin]

good to hear the Minneapolis numbers going up. I see the Storm lawnsigns all over SW Minneapolis. Do you think there might be HS hockey in Minneapolis in the years to come? Hopefully this is helping local sporting goods companies like St Mane's in Minneapolis.
I heard the Mites numbers at Edina were close to 200. Somebody also told me the Edina HS girls team has several 8th and 9th graders which talent aside looks like maybe girls are dropping out of hockey at the HS level.
I have no inside info but it appears the programs at MN Made Hockey are growing and they started a Peewee league this year that seems to draw from the smaller and weaker associations. There was also a recent article in the Minneapolis paper about players with and without their families that move to MN to play hockey other than for Shattuck which is another story.

[SWPrez]

Minneapolis has had HS hockey. Most of the best players over the last decade have gone to other publics or privates because Minneapolis was in a weak conference and the teams didn't have any depth. They are switching conferences next year to a better conference, have Joe Dziedzic coaching, and have numbers coming up.

We have a pretty strong group of public school kids (first year bantams and below). As long as they are not lured away with offers of ice time, linemates, and elite league spots by some privates...Minneapolis should have some very good HS teams in 3-4 years.

[warmskin]

It is good to hear the MPLS programs are growing. As some of the suburban programs loose numbers, with a few exceptions, MPLS could be a hockey powerhouse.

[Nevertoomuchhockey]

I am also hearing that the girls programs even the big associations are loosing girls, again it would be interesting to see some real numbers.
I realize in Peewees there is no checking but there are some big boys that if a girl skated into them could cause some problems.
At the rec, mite and squirt levels I don't see a problem mixing boys and girls but by Peewees some of the boys start hitting puberty and there can be some significant size disparities. For reasons not even medical research has figured out girls have far more athletic injuries, especially joints, then boys.
As somebody who owns a private hockey program in Edina (no names) has been known to tell parents of high school aged girls, it is not a matter of if, it is a matter of when your daughter will have some type of joint surgery.
I also realize smaller assoc may need girls for numbers on the boys teams but hopefully they are not playing the AA teams with some bigger boys.

Really???
Unbelievable.
Those girls went thru the same tryouts as the boys, and you better believe the evaluators were more than COMPLETELY CONVINCED they were good enough to play. God forbid they put girls on the team that couldn't keep up.
Ooh, they might get hurt??? The size speed power strength discrepancy goes out the window for any level lower than 14. These kids (both sexes) are growing, and some get size early. We've all seen countless penalties called on better or bigger skaters who hardly touch or just skate by a smaller or weaker player and they fall down. Do girls playing on boys teams have more injuries than girls playing on girls teams? Uh no.
Parents who complain about girls playing on boys teams are either ignorant to the quality of girls hockey (and/or the talents of specific girls,) OR they are afraid Jill will take Jack's spot and he will be scarred forever BECAUSE HE LOST TO A GIRL.
I give these girls a lot of credit. At least ER had two. A lot of times a single girl will have to contend with the petty attitudes of her teammates, their parents, even coaches until they prove themselves on the ice. Girls who formerly played center buried down the bench or at D. Being in the locker room all alone. Having to work twice as hard for half the credit. The best players will use that as motivation to push themselves and thrive. Others can't take it and leave for the girls side or leave hockey altogether.
IMHO girls who are playing on the boys side, especially when it's a talent issue rather than a numbers issue, are better than a lot of their teammates.

Let Jill's parents worry about her health and hockey. Sounds like you should get Jack out to shoot some pucks.

[Nevertoomuchhockey]

I watched a Peewee AA game tonight with a team from Elk River that had 2 girls on the team. Nothing against the girls but this doesn't look for boys teams in the future.

I don't think it is a bad sign for the future of boys hockey. I think it is actually a bad sign for girls hockey especially in the smaller associations. Take D10 for example. 2 associations (Blaine and Centennial) have the numbers in girls hockey to consistently field an A and B team and often a 3rd team. All the other associations in D10 have in the recent past or are currently co-oping to be able to find teams for their girls. And from what I have seen the number of girls are slowly dropping in all these other associations.

The best girls really don't have much choice anymore but to play squirts, peewees and sometimes bantams. Oddly enough, eliminating checking from the peewee level has helped the girls more than the boys.

When the smaller associations really only have maybe 3 or 4 A skilled girls at a level, they don't really have a chance to compete with Blaine and Centennial at that level. Every summer and fall, the associations scramble to find a new association to co-op with. So the girls don't get used to playing with the same girls every year. At least by playing on the boys teams, the top girls get that consistency and a chance to push themselves.

Let face it, for many of these smaller associations, heck even most big associations, the girls programs aren't given any priority. If the associations cared about the girls programs, they would work toward building permanent co-ops that benefit the girls in both associations. D10 tried to push for this a couple years ago for A level teams, the associations killed it.

Until the associations care about building strong girls programs, the number of girls playing will continue to slowly drop. And the number of girls playing hockey with the boys will continue to climb.

I agree with this entirely. We could start a list of girls who left district 10 and are now major contributors to some big programs.

[Whopper2]

Hockey is expenive,buy the time they get to high school the cost to be a top player is somewhere between 40 to 50 thousand dollars. Dont do it if your not willing to give it 100 percent. If you cant run with the big dogs stay on the porch