AA/A classifications for youth hockey

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moosepaw
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AA/A classifications for youth hockey

Post by moosepaw » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:38 am

Does anybody know how a youth program can be listed as a A program when their high school is AA? Example Armstrong Cooper

ogelthorpe
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Post by ogelthorpe » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:26 pm

They petition to move down to A to the District Director.

Deck Slide
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Post by Deck Slide » Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:30 pm

ogelthorpe wrote:They petition to move down to A to the District Director.
AA program for HS does not designate your Youth Hockey program as AA. The local youth hockey association makes that determination on whether to compete AA or A.

The District Directors are only their to serve as an "advisor" as whether or not an association should be AA or A..

There are numerous Cities that are AA for HS but for some certain reason they have elected to be A at the youth level.

Some District Directors did not force their hand on making HS AA programs be AA for youth hockey.. Hate to throw out names but Farmington, Apple Valley, Armstrong Cooper, Hastings, all had Single A PW teams. I am sure their are many more! Wayzata one of and if not the largest youth hockey program in the state went PW AA and PW B and did not field a PW A team, as did Osseo/MG.. District 6 and 5 were only the two district that really stepped up to the plate and adopted AA A concept and why MN Hockey went AA A for youth hockey.

moosepaw
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Post by moosepaw » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:25 pm

I was wondering about that it's a pretty slippery slope if we are going what district director thinks. This could really get to be a mess as this evolves. Most programs except for Edina, should either field a AA or A team not both. I think the associations that are doing an A and AA found that their second A teams do not fair well. Example Elk River, Brainerd, Andover.

savagegopher
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Post by savagegopher » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:46 pm

I think prior lake did ok with an a and aa plus they only have 500 kids in their whole association, b1 and down may have struggled though

ShakestheClown
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Post by ShakestheClown » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:43 pm

Is it a year-to-year choice by the associations? Hibbing went Bantam AA this year, so are they tied into AA for the foreseeable future at the youth level?

old goalie85
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Post by old goalie85 » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:51 pm

WBL/Stillwater went AA/A and did just fine. They will be all the stronger for it.

ogelthorpe
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Post by ogelthorpe » Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:14 pm

Here's the rule from the MN Hockey handbook:

Peewee A and Bantam A teams will be split into "A" and "AA" sub-divisions at the end of the season for the purpose of State Tournaments and associated playdowns. The process to do this will be as follows:
1. The AA sub-division was initiated during the 2012-13 season. The default sub-division at which teams participated (A or AA) was determined by the Minnesota State High School League classification of the boys’ high school programs that the association served. Associations that co-op were assigned to the sub-division that corresponded to the highest high school classification of the co-op associations. Associations were allowed to request a change from AA-to-A or A-to-AA sub-divisions.
2. Going forward, teams will be assigned to the same sub-division as they were the previous season - the process as indicated below can be used to request a sub-division change. For new teams, the subdivision will be assigned by default as indicated above; submit form to request change. Any team that by default qualified to be AA, petitioned down to A, and then won the A state tournament will need to resubmit their form to continue to participate at the A level, or upgrade to AA the following season.
3. Associations may request to change their sub-division from AA-to-A or A-to-AA using the “Sub-Division Change Form”. The form shall be completely and honestly filled out, including rationale as to why their Peewee and/or Bantam teams should change sub-divisions, and must be signed by the Association President. Bantams and Peewees can be in different sub-divisions (one at A – the other at AA).
4. Associations can have multiple AA teams, or one AA team and one or more A teams. If an association having an AA team wants to have multiple A teams, the A teams have to be picked equal.
5. Any request found to have false information will be cause to have the decision reversed.
6. All “Sub-Division Change Forms” must be received by the cognizant Regional Vice President and copied to the District Director by a date established by the District but in all cases no later than November 25th.
7. Final determination will be made by the MH Competition Committee by December 1st. The committee will consist of the VP Maroon and VP Gold Coordinators and two District Directors from each of the Maroon and Gold Divisions selected by the VP’s. The committee will consult with the cognizant District Director before a final determination is made.
8. NOTE: The A and AA sub-divisions are sub-groups of the "A" division – both are considered "A" teams through the regular season. AA and A teams may play in the same district league, using a balanced or unbalanced schedule, or may be split into separate leagues at the District Director's discretion.

yesiplayedhockey
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Post by yesiplayedhockey » Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:55 am

Why can't it be simple

Association fields "x or more" number of teams in a specific age group they must play at the AA level

Association fields "Y or less" number of teams they must play A

Associations have the right to play up

Since most associations probably have 60-70 kids (4 teams) in each age group (say Pee Wee's) that may be where the line is....70 or more kids in the Pee Wee's you play AA, 70 or less you play A's. Option for smaller communities to still play up if they so choose

Every year you get a new headcount from the association and the teams are assigned their level based on those new years numbers.

Bluewhitefan
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Post by Bluewhitefan » Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:05 am

yesiplayedhockey wrote:Why can't it be simple

Association fields "x or more" number of teams in a specific age group they must play at the AA level

Association fields "Y or less" number of teams they must play A

Associations have the right to play up

Since most associations probably have 60-70 kids (4 teams) in each age group (say Pee Wee's) that may be where the line is....70 or more kids in the Pee Wee's you play AA, 70 or less you play A's. Option for smaller communities to still play up if they so choose

Every year you get a new headcount from the association and the teams are assigned their level based on those new years numbers.
Too simple - needs to be a more complex algorithm, so nobody can understand it.

Bleed Maroon and Gold
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Post by Bleed Maroon and Gold » Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:22 am

moosepaw wrote:I was wondering about that it's a pretty slippery slope if we are going what district director thinks. This could really get to be a mess as this evolves. Most programs except for Edina, should either field a AA or A team not both. I think the associations that are doing an A and AA found that their second A teams do not fair well. Example Elk River, Brainerd, Andover.
I disagree with this. At the Bantam level Elk River, Centennial, Blaine out of D10 had both AA and A teams. Elk River struggled. Centennial finish 5th in the district and Blaine made it to regions. There are several programs that have both the AA and A teams this season and several were successful. A couple struggled but in the end did all of the kids improve from the beginning of the season to the end of the season. I think this is the right move if you can be competitive because you are able to develop that many more kids.

ASmoothSheet
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Re: AA/A classifications for youth hockey

Post by ASmoothSheet » Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:31 am

moosepaw wrote:Does anybody know how a youth program can be listed as a A program when their high school is AA? Example Armstrong Cooper
Getting back to the original posted question, Armstrong with 3 teams at Peewee level, ~45 players would also be in the "A" level according to the X and Y scenario above....
Perhaps their HS should be playing "A" :shock:

yesiplayedhockey
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Post by yesiplayedhockey » Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:36 am

Here again you could base the decision on numbers..If you went with 70 kids for the cutoff you could then say any association with 100+ kids must field a AA and A team..Association with 70-100 kids have the option of fielding a AA team and B1 team or they could opt to go AA and A..

9 times out of 10 the system will work just fine. It's not perfect but nothing is. Usually numbers dictate success.. The one thing you don't want is association fielding a AA and A team with smaller numbers as their 16-30 kids may struggle against the 1-15 kids in another association that may be about the same size as theirs

SCBlueLiner
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Post by SCBlueLiner » Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:43 am

yesiplayedhockey wrote:Here again you could base the decision on numbers..If you went with 70 kids for the cutoff you could then say any association with 100+ kids must field a AA and A team..Association with 70-100 kids have the option of fielding a AA team and B1 team or they could opt to go AA and A..

9 times out of 10 the system will work just fine. It's not perfect but nothing is. Usually numbers dictate success.. The one thing you don't want is association fielding a AA and A team with smaller numbers as their 16-30 kids may struggle against the 1-15 kids in another association that may be about the same size as theirs
This is common sense and don't see why this isn't adopted.

ASmoothSheet
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Post by ASmoothSheet » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:37 am

Good, we have this one figured out. Next topic....

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