Open enrollment happening at the youth hockey level

Discussion of Minnesota Youth Hockey

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yesiplayedhockey
Posts: 274
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:33 am

Open enrollment happening at the youth hockey level

Post by yesiplayedhockey » Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:56 am

I have a question...Would it make sense for a youth hockey board to come up with a policy so that any family open enrolling their kid into another association, that skater can only make a B team? AA spots are held for kids that live in the community

Do hockey board members have a responsibility to their community? The community that pays taxes that fund the ice rink?

Is open enrollment an issue in your community? what is being done about it at the youth level?

DrGaf
Posts: 636
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:08 pm

Re: Open enrollment happening at the youth hockey level

Post by DrGaf » Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:27 pm

yesiplayedhockey wrote:I have a question...Would it make sense for a youth hockey board to come up with a policy so that any family open enrolling their kid into another association, that skater can only make a B team? AA spots are held for kids that live in the community

Do hockey board members have a responsibility to their community? The community that pays taxes that fund the ice rink?

Is open enrollment an issue in your community? what is being done about it at the youth level?
I've seen this in person.... a parent was driving his son to all of the neighboring associations (3 total) tryouts. Looking for the best placement.

I'm guessing part of it is to avoid this kind of craziness.

The other part ... IMHO ... is to avoid a situation where you would have the entire (For Example Purposes Only) 2000 machine team skating in Edina. Not saying that would have happened ... just sayin' it could have.
Sorry, fresh out, Don't Really Give Any.

BadgerBob82
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Post by BadgerBob82 » Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:14 pm

The MN Hockey residency rule created this problem. By allowing kids to play where they "attend school" opened the door for this to happen. The result is Sibley Area taken over by STA. St. Louis Park by BSM. Hopkins by Blake, etc. And that's just at the Bantam level. The same thing is going on in other associations and at the younger age levels.

Oh sure, your kid just wants to play with his classmates! HaHa

You play where you live or you apply for a waiver. PERIOD

Don't like it? Go play youth hockey in "Des Moines"

SWPrez
Posts: 370
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:48 am

Re: Open enrollment happening at the youth hockey level

Post by SWPrez » Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:17 pm

DrGaf wrote:
yesiplayedhockey wrote:I have a question...Would it make sense for a youth hockey board to come up with a policy so that any family open enrolling their kid into another association, that skater can only make a B team? AA spots are held for kids that live in the community

Do hockey board members have a responsibility to their community? The community that pays taxes that fund the ice rink?

Is open enrollment an issue in your community? what is being done about it at the youth level?
I've seen this in person.... a parent was driving his son to all of the neighboring associations (3 total) tryouts. Looking for the best placement.

I'm guessing part of it is to avoid this kind of craziness.

The other part ... IMHO ... is to avoid a situation where you would have the entire (For Example Purposes Only) 2000 machine team skating in Edina. Not saying that would have happened ... just sayin' it could have.
This can't be done...a parent going to three associations.

MN Hockey rules are very specific on this. There is no 'open enrollment'. You play where you live or where you go to school.

Once you have attended a single tryout for "where you live or go to school" association, you cannot tryout anywhere else....that association controls you.

Sometimes it takes a few weeks for these things to be figured out by an association - in Mpls this year we had a player come into our program midway through tryouts. We were not aware they had tried out elsewhere and one of the parents used a valid Minneapolis address for registration. It was only after we were notified by the association where the player tried out and was originally placed on a team that we could take action under the MN Hockey rules. The player was sent back to their association immediately upon getting rule clarification from MN Hockey.

While a parent may drag them all over for tryouts...there are a bunch of barriers in place. Free agency is pretty hard to accomplish.

yesiplayedhockey
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Post by yesiplayedhockey » Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:44 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong but you can still go to school in one city yet play association hockey for the town you're living in correct? So if you lived in Hopkins, you could open enroll to Minnetonka but still play with your neighborhood buddies on the Hopkins Pee Wee team.

Why question is this, shouldn't all youth hockey boards just reject a waiver and say tough luck, we support the kids in our town first? Their motto could be, if you want to go to school here because you think the education is better we can't stop you, but your son will not be allowed to play on our AA team.

This way you've eliminated sports as a variable to why parents open enroll their kids at such a young age. High school is a whole other animal, this question pertains mainly to youth hockey.

DrGaf
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:08 pm

Re: Open enrollment happening at the youth hockey level

Post by DrGaf » Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:19 pm

SWPrez wrote:
DrGaf wrote:
yesiplayedhockey wrote:I have a question...Would it make sense for a youth hockey board to come up with a policy so that any family open enrolling their kid into another association, that skater can only make a B team? AA spots are held for kids that live in the community

Do hockey board members have a responsibility to their community? The community that pays taxes that fund the ice rink?

Is open enrollment an issue in your community? what is being done about it at the youth level?
I've seen this in person.... a parent was driving his son to all of the neighboring associations (3 total) tryouts. Looking for the best placement.

I'm guessing part of it is to avoid this kind of craziness.

The other part ... IMHO ... is to avoid a situation where you would have the entire (For Example Purposes Only) 2000 machine team skating in Edina. Not saying that would have happened ... just sayin' it could have.
This can't be done...a parent going to three associations.

MN Hockey rules are very specific on this. There is no 'open enrollment'. You play where you live or where you go to school.

Once you have attended a single tryout for "where you live or go to school" association, you cannot tryout anywhere else....that association controls you.

Sometimes it takes a few weeks for these things to be figured out by an association - in Mpls this year we had a player come into our program midway through tryouts. We were not aware they had tried out elsewhere and one of the parents used a valid Minneapolis address for registration. It was only after we were notified by the association where the player tried out and was originally placed on a team that we could take action under the MN Hockey rules. The player was sent back to their association immediately upon getting rule clarification from MN Hockey.

While a parent may drag them all over for tryouts...there are a bunch of barriers in place. Free agency is pretty hard to accomplish.
Correct ... dad was busted. I should have mentioned that. Ended up playing C's in his home association.
Sorry, fresh out, Don't Really Give Any.

Froggy Richards
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Post by Froggy Richards » Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:32 pm

yesiplayedhockey wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but you can still go to school in one city yet play association hockey for the town you're living in correct? So if you lived in Hopkins, you could open enroll to Minnetonka but still play with your neighborhood buddies on the Hopkins Pee Wee team.

Yes, you can do this.

Why question is this, shouldn't all youth hockey boards just reject a waiver and say tough luck, we support the kids in our town first? Their motto could be, if you want to go to school here because you think the education is better we can't stop you, but your son will not be allowed to play on our AA team.

No, they can't do that. It's the current Minnesota Hockey Rule. You are allowed to play in the Association where you go to school, regardless of where you live. Neither Association can reject the waiver. The tryout process and which team you end up on, however, is always up to the Association.

This way you've eliminated sports as a variable to why parents open enroll their kids at such a young age. High school is a whole other animal, this question pertains mainly to youth hockey.

mnhockey2019
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Post by mnhockey2019 » Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:36 pm

BadgerBob82 wrote:The MN Hockey residency rule created this problem. By allowing kids to play where they "attend school" opened the door for this to happen. The result is Sibley Area taken over by STA. St. Louis Park by BSM. Hopkins by Blake, etc. And that's just at the Bantam level. The same thing is going on in other associations and at the younger age levels.

Oh sure, your kid just wants to play with his classmates! HaHa

You play where you live or you apply for a waiver. PERIOD

Don't like it? Go play youth hockey in "Des Moines"
Give us some numbers on these associations being taken over at the Bantam level, and what other associations are being taken over at the younger age levels? Also, for each of the three schools mentioned, if a student attends the school prior to Bantams they can't just switch associations to play Bantams in the association where the school is located because of the residency rule -- no change in residency or school which would allow the kid to change associations as a Bantam.

I assume that you would also be in favor of not allowing anyone who open enrolls in a public school to play in the association where they go to school. Same principle -- play where you live, not where you go to school.

puckfan
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Re: Open enrollment happening at the youth hockey level

Post by puckfan » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:08 pm

The other part ... IMHO ... is to avoid a situation where you would have the entire (For Example Purposes Only) 2000 machine team skating in Edina. Not saying that would have happened ... just sayin' it could have.
No and this would never be the case at a red/white school either :wink: :wink: :wink:

BadgerBob82
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Post by BadgerBob82 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:40 am

MNhockey2019:

Not sure what you are saying? Residency rule allows kid to play were they live or can play where they go to school. I'd read it that they could in theory change associations every year if they change schools every year.

If you want to quibble over the exact numbers, you can research them. When a coach says, the whole team is going to STA except for 3-4 kids, that is taking over a program. And for Hopkins, the front of their jersey reads BLAKE. Just thinking a connection might be there?

And YES, play where you live! That is black and white. Want to play someplace else, apply for a waiver. Most of the time, the sending association is more than happy to get rid of the player and/or parent!

Bluewhitefan
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Post by Bluewhitefan » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:04 am

BadgerBob82 wrote:I'd read it that they could in theory change associations every year if they change schools every year.
Then read again, because you're only reading what you want to read:

5. Changing Schools
a. Players who change schools without a related change of residence shall elect one of the following:
1. Have full eligibility to compete at any division in their Association of Residence; or
2. Have full eligibility to compete at any division in their Association of School Attendance if they
completed the grades offered in the school they were previously attending; or
3. Be eligible at all except the highest division in their new Association of School Attendance for
one (1) year beginning with the first day of attendance in the new school if they did not
complete the grades offered in the school they were previously attending. 25
4. "Completing the grades offered in the school" is defined as completing the grades offered in
Elementary, Middle School or Junior High School. Typically there is a change of building
involved, but a building change alone (such as a change between 3rd and 4th grade) does
not constitute completing the grades offered in the system.

Defensive Zone
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Post by Defensive Zone » Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:55 am

Reading this thread, I cannot help thinking what if MN Hockey would open up their residency rule and let any hockey player play where they want. My son use to play soccer and that governed body lets players play anywhere. If this happened in hockey, associations would be forced to get their house in order or lose players. Just a thought.

goaliedad31
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Post by goaliedad31 » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:05 am

=D>

SCBlueLiner
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Post by SCBlueLiner » Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:47 am

Defensive Zone wrote:Reading this thread, I cannot help thinking what if MN Hockey would open up their residency rule and let any hockey player play where they want. My son use to play soccer and that governed body lets players play anywhere. If this happened in hockey, associations would be forced to get their house in order or lose players. Just a thought.
I don't totally disagree with this, yet I don't fully agree. It would certainly get very interesting, and possibly ugly with player recruitment, etc.

One dynamic you might not think of but could potentially see would be a flight of A or B players FROM an association like Edina into a smaller association. Why? Well, the player might not be good enough (or for whatever reason doesn't make Edina's top team) to make the the top team at Edina but is good enough to make the top team at another smaller association.

Open enrollment could consolidate all the talent on a couple fo top teams, or it could spread the talent all over the place.

After thinking about it,I don't think it would be a good idea to open up the residency requirement.

edgeless2
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Post by edgeless2 » Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:39 am

Defensive Zone wrote:Reading this thread, I cannot help thinking what if MN Hockey would open up their residency rule and let any hockey player play where they want. My son use to play soccer and that governed body lets players play anywhere. If this happened in hockey, associations would be forced to get their house in order or lose players. Just a thought.
If you want year round Machine, Blades, MG Gold stacked teams, this would effectively do that.

Shinbone_News
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Post by Shinbone_News » Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:44 am

edgeless2 wrote:
Defensive Zone wrote:Reading this thread, I cannot help thinking what if MN Hockey would open up their residency rule and let any hockey player play where they want. My son use to play soccer and that governed body lets players play anywhere. If this happened in hockey, associations would be forced to get their house in order or lose players. Just a thought.
If you want year round Machine, Blades, MG Gold stacked teams, this would effectively do that.
What would that look like? It would look like hockey everywhere else in the country, most notably (and regrettably) Massachusetts. For every Minuteman Flames there are 10 dead-and-gone-forever community associations. I guess we all feel like if the association can't compete with Edina, then it would be better if those several hundred kids just quit playing hockey, while the disgruntled parents of the top 10 kids can go tryout for the Hornets.

As Herb Brooks said many times, community based hockey (heck, even neighborhood based hockey, in his time) is the foundation of the pyramid. It's not the job of Minnesota Hockey to create the 16 best players in the country, it's their job to grow the game so that more kids learn to love it and play it their whole lives. Creating the top players in the country is a natural outcome, not a goal in itself.

50cent
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Post by 50cent » Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:30 am

edgeless2 wrote:
Defensive Zone wrote:Reading this thread, I cannot help thinking what if MN Hockey would open up their residency rule and let any hockey player play where they want. My son use to play soccer and that governed body lets players play anywhere. If this happened in hockey, associations would be forced to get their house in order or lose players. Just a thought.
If you want year round Machine, Blades, MG Gold stacked teams, this would effectively do that.
Sound good to me!!!
You would see more of a East vs Waest and North vs South rivalry. Would develope better talent due to kids playing better talent. Yes this sounds like summer hockey. This could be the best thing for MN Hockey. Might only benefit 20% of the kids playing hockey. For the rest "REC Leagues" are a better option then small associations that cant find kids to play or with really low numbers.
Oh and no more USA hockey to get rich off MN Kids. Let the hockey factories make the money... :twisted:

Shinbone_News
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Post by Shinbone_News » Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:02 pm

50cent wrote:This could be the best thing for MN Hockey. Might only benefit 20% of the kids playing hockey.
That pretty much sums it up, dunnit.

Yes, let's make hockey even more exclusive and expensive than it already is. If we have fewer hockey players, they'll be better... naturally. This is why Massachusetts, Illinois and even Michigan produce WAY MORE top level hockey players. Oh wait, they don't do they.

Minnesota consistently produces more top-level hockey players than any other COUNTRY other than Canada.

old goalie85
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Post by old goalie85 » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:06 pm

Only benefit 20 % ??? :roll: You are a nutjob !!!!! How many do you have playing, and how old ????

HockeyDad41
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Re: Open enrollment happening at the youth hockey level

Post by HockeyDad41 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:42 am

yesiplayedhockey wrote:I have a question...Would it make sense for a youth hockey board to come up with a policy so that any family open enrolling their kid into another association, that skater can only make a B team? AA spots are held for kids that live in the community

Do hockey board members have a responsibility to their community? The community that pays taxes that fund the ice rink?

Is open enrollment an issue in your community? what is being done about it at the youth level?
Odd that you would pick the end of the season to bring this up. Multiple variations of this same topic usually appear around the start of the season. I would be very surprised if most association leadership has not at some point had this conversation and have policies in place to deal with this circumstance.

For the most part, I see this as a hot topic for the parents of bubble kids who are concerned about being bumped from a team. I don't think anyone else really gives two rips about it. I wonder how hard the coach of the receiving team lobbied against the arrival of the new little Parise-like forward?

If you are a serious hockey family and are stuck in an association that has been historically bad like CR, and you had the ability to go to Centennial, Blaine, or Andover wouldn't you? The reality is that families like that don't try to fix a bad association, they flee.

The current policies regarding where a player plays are fine. No policy will keep a truly motivated hockey mom from getting little jonny superstar where she thinks he should be.
Last edited by HockeyDad41 on Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Solving all of hockey's problems since Feb 2009.

50cent
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Post by 50cent » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:39 am

old goalie85 wrote:Only benefit 20 % ??? :roll: You are a nutjob !!!!! How many do you have playing, and how old ????
I dont care about your kid or anyone kids. I only care about mine and what is best for mine. Mighty mites age 4. HAAA

Like it or not 20% of us are nut jobs the rest are what then. What your not a nut job for posting 3312 times since 2009 :-] ? Dont answer that.

bestpopcorn
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Post by bestpopcorn » Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:15 pm

http://unitedstatesofhockey.com/2012/05 ... n-2011-12/

Minnesota's model works.
Reading this thread, I cannot help thinking what if MN Hockey would open up their residency rule and let any hockey player play where they want. My son use to play soccer and that governed body lets players play anywhere. If this happened in hockey, associations would be forced to get their house in order or lose players. Just a thought.
Every assn has a group of dissatisfied parents that believe the grass is greener just down the road. Most find it's not. Our board released (with pleasure) one fellow a few years ago. I was approached by a board member from the assn that took him asking if we wouldn't please take him back...

Question - Is there such a thing as a small assn that doesn't have a huge amount of talent that is non the less well run?

My experience tells me that there are two reasons most parents want to transfer. The first reason is because the assn down the road has a better team. The 2nd is that their local assn doesn't recognize that Johnny is a star. Both of these reasons are then translated by the parent into "poorly run organization"

Csualobsrvr
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Post by Csualobsrvr » Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:42 pm

Last name happen to start with "Y"?

MrBoDangles
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Post by MrBoDangles » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:30 am

bestpopcorn wrote:http://unitedstatesofhockey.com/2012/05 ... n-2011-12/

Minnesota's model works.
Reading this thread, I cannot help thinking what if MN Hockey would open up their residency rule and let any hockey player play where they want. My son use to play soccer and that governed body lets players play anywhere. If this happened in hockey, associations would be forced to get their house in order or lose players. Just a thought.
Every assn has a group of dissatisfied parents that believe the grass is greener just down the road. Most find it's not. Our board released (with pleasure) one fellow a few years ago. I was approached by a board member from the assn that took him asking if we wouldn't please take him back...

Question - Is there such a thing as a small assn that doesn't have a huge amount of talent that is non the less well run?

My experience tells me that there are two reasons most parents want to transfer. The first reason is because the assn down the road has a better team. The 2nd is that their local assn doesn't recognize that Johnny is a star. Both of these reasons are then translated by the parent into "poorly run organization"
There are poorly run associations, just like there are poorly run districts, states, country's etc.

90% of people are on boards and governments for their own personal gain. :idea:

bestpopcorn
Posts: 127
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Post by bestpopcorn » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:32 pm

Does my last name start with Y? Maybe? Who want's to know?

I hope you are wrong about the 90%. That was not my experience when I was a board member. We had a decent group, I thought. I wish the women would have gotten along better.

I can't even figure out what exactly I would have done to benefit myself. Other than tryouts where of course I told them who to pick...

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