Stars & Stripes Schedule

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black sheep
Posts: 332
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:57 pm

Stars & Stripes Schedule

Post by black sheep » Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:59 pm

Well played MN Made...schedule teams for 1 game thurs & then 1 game friday or saturday...works well for stay and play.

I guess the old 2 - 2 - 2 fri / sat / sun just not pulling enough hotel revenue because everyone knows there is plenty of ice.

http://www.minnesotamadehockey.com/page ... tournament

It's too bad it never ends at MN Made...

Docs_88
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Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:16 pm

Post by Docs_88 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:54 pm

Interesting that at the 01 open level there are teams playing two games at almost the same time. Neat trick if you can pull it off. Poor kids will be tired! :D

thefatcat
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Post by thefatcat » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:13 pm

Do they have more teams entered overall compared to previous years?

knights58
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Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:02 am

well played

Post by knights58 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:35 am

Yeah...cause we know that Mn Made makes lot's of money from all the hotels they own.

BTW, if you look at their tournament flyer, it says all teams must be available to play Thursday, so again, if that's too much to ask, then don't sign up for the tournament.

Oh, and there are games this Thursday for the Minnesota Meltdown...what a new concept. I wonder how many hotels the Super Rink owns since they obviously set this up to make people come down and stay an extra night.

more petty bs because it's MN Made....

Deep Breath

Post by Deep Breath » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:54 am

black sheep: There are out of state teams that come to play in tournaments in town but they also state they want the teams/families to be able to site see while they are in town, so requests are put in to have those teams play, say one pool play game early on Thursday and then a later one on Friday, to allow big chunks of the day to go do what they want. This situation is not unique to the Stars n Stripes and there is no real great conspiracy. Also, if you think Bernie was able to put up the third sheet of (winter) ice based on money coming in off of kickbacks from tournament hotels, you simply are uninformed.

JSR
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Re: well played

Post by JSR » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:24 am

knights58 wrote:Yeah...cause we know that Mn Made makes lot's of money from all the hotels they own.

BTW, if you look at their tournament flyer, it says all teams must be available to play Thursday, so again, if that's too much to ask, then don't sign up for the tournament.

Oh, and there are games this Thursday for the Minnesota Meltdown...what a new concept. I wonder how many hotels the Super Rink owns since they obviously set this up to make people come down and stay an extra night.

more petty bs because it's MN Made....
Actually knights58, you obviously are a little inexperienced in how these tournaments work. When you set up a large tourney like this and you contract with specific hotels to be "the hotels" for the tournament, for every room booked under the tournament package the tournament director (let's assume that is Bernie and the Made in this instance) get a kickback from the hotels. It's usually in the area of anywhere from $10 to $40 per room/per night booked that is kick backed to the tournament director and tourney "owners". For example, the ftournament director who runs the Nike/Bauer tournament in Chicago in November makes close to $1million off just that one tournament (that is what he gets paid, it's not revenue, it's profit) and the majority of that money comes from hotel kickbacks (not tourney fees). It's not petty BS to point out something that is common knowledge amongst anyone experienced in hosting these tournaments. Also, they have always had Thursday night games but they've always been exclusively for local teams in the tournament, historically they've never forced a far away out of town team to play on a Thursday night before. I know one of the out of town teams playing on a Thursday night and they are very very unhappy about it, said they likely will not come back next year because of it. Trust me the "sight seeing" angle is BS, for most out of town teams, most want to get in and get out for as inexpensive as possible.....

snyper12
Posts: 141
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Re: Stars & Stripes Schedule

Post by snyper12 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:30 am

black sheep wrote:Well played MN Made...schedule teams for 1 game thurs & then 1 game friday or saturday...works well for stay and play.

I guess the old 2 - 2 - 2 fri / sat / sun just not pulling enough hotel revenue because everyone knows there is plenty of ice.

http://www.minnesotamadehockey.com/page ... tournament

It's too bad it never ends at MN Made...

quite the number they pulled on competitive edge and blades in 00 bracket - 3 games each Friday

barry_mcconnell
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Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:43 pm

Re: Stars & Stripes Schedule

Post by barry_mcconnell » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:37 am

snyper12 wrote:
black sheep wrote:Well played MN Made...schedule teams for 1 game thurs & then 1 game friday or saturday...works well for stay and play.

I guess the old 2 - 2 - 2 fri / sat / sun just not pulling enough hotel revenue because everyone knows there is plenty of ice.

http://www.minnesotamadehockey.com/page ... tournament

It's too bad it never ends at MN Made...

quite the number they pulled on competitive edge and blades in 00 bracket - 3 games each Friday
No doubt the schedules were/are all messed up. I think they are still in the process of fixing problems. You can't ask teams to play 3 60min games in one day. Looks like they already fixed it at the 2000 Invite level. Hopefully they fix the issues at the other levels soon.

TommyHockey
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Post by TommyHockey » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:42 am

I call "Mularky"

boomerang
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Post by boomerang » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:09 am

Shouldn't this be in the AAA forum?

knights58
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Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:02 am

facts

Post by knights58 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:27 am

actually, I'm quite experienced in these tournaments and how they work and it's nothing new for out of town teams to play on a Thursday night when they are playing in large tournaments. We have done it many many many times. I also know a guy that runs a well known local hotel that does sign in with some of the hockey tournaments in the northern metro like the Super Rink...and the tournaments make very little in "kickbacks" from these hotels. It's more of a convenience thing for the teams coming in so they do not have to do a bunch of searching. Usually, these hotels offer a bit of a team discount so they don't lose money by discounting the rooms, then supposedly paying the tournament a big kick back

This isn't my first rodeo....I've been coaching/attending these tournaments for 12 years now. The starting post was just more BS about someone wanting to find a way to complain about MN Made...

MWS coach
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Re: Stars & Stripes Schedule

Post by MWS coach » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:41 am

barry_mcconnell wrote:
snyper12 wrote:
black sheep wrote:Well played MN Made...schedule teams for 1 game thurs & then 1 game friday or saturday...works well for stay and play.

I guess the old 2 - 2 - 2 fri / sat / sun just not pulling enough hotel revenue because everyone knows there is plenty of ice.

http://www.minnesotamadehockey.com/page ... tournament

It's too bad it never ends at MN Made...

quite the number they pulled on competitive edge and blades in 00 bracket - 3 games each Friday
No doubt the schedules were/are all messed up. I think they are still in the process of fixing problems. You can't ask teams to play 3 60min games in one day. Looks like they already fixed it at the 2000 Invite level. Hopefully they fix the issues at the other levels soon.
Does no one review these schedules prior to releasing them? MG team at 03 level is scheduled to play 4 games on Saturday with two of the games running during the same time at different rinks... Not rocket science. I get a lot of components in putting together a schedule, but at least review it prior to releasing for the obvious. One way to wear out the competition, schedule them for 3+ games in a day.

The 03 schedule is just ugly. Orange plays Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and does not play again until Saturday evening play down. While it is known going in that Orange will face the path of least resistance, Just unreal that schedule other teams for multiple pool games on same day as playdown game yet orange has none.

Steeldogs have a game on Thursday and Friday during the day, which will cause kids to miss school on both days.

LSS 2 PM on Thursday for first game, nice way to treat a team from out of town. Same for Jr Oil Caps (assuming this is out of town team) They face LSS at 2PM shakedown.

Blades also play game on Thursday and Friday during the day... Is this really necessary with using 8 rinks as listed on the schedule?
Last edited by MWS coach on Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

Froggy Richards
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Re: facts

Post by Froggy Richards » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:43 am

knights58 wrote:actually, I'm quite experienced in these tournaments and how they work and it's nothing new for out of town teams to play on a Thursday night when they are playing in large tournaments. We have done it many many many times. I also know a guy that runs a well known local hotel that does sign in with some of the hockey tournaments in the northern metro like the Super Rink...and the tournaments make very little in "kickbacks" from these hotels. It's more of a convenience thing for the teams coming in so they do not have to do a bunch of searching. Usually, these hotels offer a bit of a team discount so they don't lose money by discounting the rooms, then supposedly paying the tournament a big kick back

This isn't my first rodeo....I've been coaching/attending these tournaments for 12 years now. The starting post was just more BS about someone wanting to find a way to complain about MN Made...
From the tournament home page:

** As a condition of acceptance to the Stars and Stripes Tournament, all out of town teams MUST reserve rooms though our online registration system and stay in a Stars and Stripes Authorized Hotel, at tournament rates. Any team not following the online procedures will be removed from the tournament. Deposit will not be refunded.

Sure is nice of them to offer this "convenience" to the out of town teams. :lol:

Redarmy19
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Re: facts

Post by Redarmy19 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:47 am

knights58 wrote:It's more of a convenience thing for the teams coming in so they do not have to do a bunch of searching.
If it was more of a convenience thing, teams wouldn't be required to stay in these hotels by the tournament directors....

knights58
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Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:02 am

Post by knights58 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:52 am

I didn't say there wasn't any benefit...but it's not outrageous. Is this the first time some of you have ever played or looked into a large AAA hockey tournament? We are going to Canada again this summer...and horror or horror's we have to be there Wed night to play a Thursday game! What????!!!!! that's so horrible, we may never come back! Cmon.

I heard a rumor that MN made may be responsible for the 777 jet disappearing.....hmmmm

barry_mcconnell
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Post by barry_mcconnell » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:09 pm

Whoa. I'm not sure I've ever seen such messed up scheduling. 4 games in one day? In past years this tournament has seemed very well run.

Is there any chance that this is partially due to the fact the MnMade is trying to accommodate players being rostered on multiple teams? I can't believe they are pushing games to Wednesday night. The Meltdown must have beat them to all the good ice times.

Froggy Richards
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Post by Froggy Richards » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:29 pm

knights58 wrote:I didn't say there wasn't any benefit...but it's not outrageous. Is this the first time some of you have ever played or looked into a large AAA hockey tournament? We are going to Canada again this summer...and horror or horror's we have to be there Wed night to play a Thursday game! What????!!!!! that's so horrible, we may never come back! Cmon.

I heard a rumor that MN made may be responsible for the 777 jet disappearing.....hmmmm
Actually, what you said was, "It's more of a convenience thing for the teams coming in so they do not have to do a bunch of searching."

We were all just pointing out that you were completely wrong. Don't take offense. Not everyone is familiar with how these tournaments work.

SCBlueLiner
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Re: Stars & Stripes Schedule

Post by SCBlueLiner » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:49 pm

Steeldogs have a game on Thursday and Friday during the day, which will cause kids to miss school on both days.

This is the issue that ticks most parents off. It's not summer yet, kids are still in school. If it was summer I would say, yeah, sucks to play on Thursday but we'll live.

As for hotels, we quit staying at the "approved" hotels years ago. Nobody cares or checks up, too much other stuff going on and the big money is in the entry fee. No way you kick a team out over something like that.

black sheep
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Post by black sheep » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:40 pm

knights58 wrote: Is this the first time some of you have ever played or looked into a large AAA hockey tournament?
http://chitownshuffle.com/Schedules.html#Position

see any wednesday or thurs games here...? maybe a lot more ice in chi-town.

observer
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Post by observer » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:56 pm

My guess on some of that is to play as many games as possible, maybe even more than possible, at the rink owned my MM. Buying ice at other arenas is expensive and bites straight into the bottom line.

Froggy Richards
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Re: Stars & Stripes Schedule

Post by Froggy Richards » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:01 pm

SCBlueLiner wrote:Steeldogs have a game on Thursday and Friday during the day, which will cause kids to miss school on both days.

This is the issue that ticks most parents off. It's not summer yet, kids are still in school. If it was summer I would say, yeah, sucks to play on Thursday but we'll live.

As for hotels, we quit staying at the "approved" hotels years ago. Nobody cares or checks up, too much other stuff going on and the big money is in the entry fee. No way you kick a team out over something like that.
You're correct that most tournaments don't check on this. But for the Stars and Stripes they do. You don't just call and reserve rooms, you have to book your rooms through their online registration system so they know. They still keep your money if they kick you out so it doesn't matter to them. They can just add another team and make even more money.

JSR
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Re: Stars & Stripes Schedule

Post by JSR » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:23 pm

SCBlueLiner wrote:Steeldogs have a game on Thursday and Friday during the day, which will cause kids to miss school on both days.

This is the issue that ticks most parents off. It's not summer yet, kids are still in school. If it was summer I would say, yeah, sucks to play on Thursday but we'll live.

As for hotels, we quit staying at the "approved" hotels years ago. Nobody cares or checks up, too much other stuff going on and the big money is in the entry fee. No way you kick a team out over something like that.
Actually the ChiTown Shuffle checks and makes sure that you have a "minimum" number of rooms reserved for your team through the designated hotels, if you do not your team is tossed from the tourney and your fee is nonrefundable, and they do it because they don't care and because they can afford to do it.... It's a whole new worl the last 4 or 5 years, it's not like it was just a few short years ago.... Some tourneys do not check but some do and you need to know which ones do

JSR
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Re: facts

Post by JSR » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:48 pm

knights58 wrote:actually, I'm quite experienced in these tournaments and how they work and it's nothing new for out of town teams to play on a Thursday night when they are playing in large tournaments. We have done it many many many times. I also know a guy that runs a well known local hotel that does sign in with some of the hockey tournaments in the northern metro like the Super Rink...and the tournaments make very little in "kickbacks" from these hotels. It's more of a convenience thing for the teams coming in so they do not have to do a bunch of searching. Usually, these hotels offer a bit of a team discount so they don't lose money by discounting the rooms, then supposedly paying the tournament a big kick back

This isn't my first rodeo....I've been coaching/attending these tournaments for 12 years now. The starting post was just more BS about someone wanting to find a way to complain about MN Made...
Honestly everything you keep typing on here leads us all to believe it is your first rodeo, either that or your so far disconnected tot he new realities you haven't embraced them yet.... To be fair historically Minneapolis, and even Minnesota in general have not traditionally been hardcore on these things historically, but like many things Bernie and the "Made" are doing things differently, doing them like Chicago and Detroit and Tier 1 etc..... These tournament hotel edicts are NOT for convenience, atleast not with the Staars & Stripes and some other, they ARE for money making purposes, literally no other reason. That is not complaining about Bernie or the Made, or the Machine, that is just plain fact, and the money they make is substantial. Do the math, minimum $10 per room booked per night, lets say there are 8 age divisions and an open and an invite level for both, that's 16 age levels, times 8 teams on average each level, but lets say 4 teams are local and don't need hotels, and then llet's go low and say 13 kids per team. So, my very, very conservative estimate says that is around 832 families needing hotel rooms, times $10 per night, that's well over $8,000 per night in hotel kick backs. And that's the low, low, low end, and now they are forced to stay an extra night, so staying Thursday, Friday and Saturday night means at the very bare minimum of $25,000. Lets remember the tourney fees generally cover all the ice fees, refs and administrative fees, the hotel kick backs go straight in the tourney directors pocket..... down in ChiTown they usually get more like $25 per room and have twice as many teams staying there so now the money starts egttign ridiculous... keep your head in the sand if you want but you obvioulsy have no idea what you are talking about

black sheep
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Re: Stars & Stripes Schedule

Post by black sheep » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:03 pm

JSR wrote:
SCBlueLiner wrote:Steeldogs have a game on Thursday and Friday during the day, which will cause kids to miss school on both days.

This is the issue that ticks most parents off. It's not summer yet, kids are still in school. If it was summer I would say, yeah, sucks to play on Thursday but we'll live.

As for hotels, we quit staying at the "approved" hotels years ago. Nobody cares or checks up, too much other stuff going on and the big money is in the entry fee. No way you kick a team out over something like that.
Actually the ChiTown Shuffle checks and makes sure that you have a "minimum" number of rooms reserved for your team through the designated hotels, if you do not your team is tossed from the tourney and your fee is nonrefundable, and they do it because they don't care and because they can afford to do it.... It's a whole new worl the last 4 or 5 years, it's not like it was just a few short years ago.... Some tourneys do not check but some do and you need to know which ones do
true with Chi-town...but they also give youone room free if you book a certain number...and they set up breakfast at the hotels for the tournament players and families becasue most of the major hotels do not have continental services.

maybe $25 in kickbacks...but each family of four saves $50 in breakfast. not a service offered though mn made stay & play.

NAHC in winnipepg is a Thursday start, but its in the summer and you book hotels of your choice. Thank goodness as WPG hotels are not cheap.

edit...forgot to add.

Chi-Town entry fee = $1395
Stars & Stripes entry fee = $1875

O-townClown
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Location: Typical homeboy from the O-Town

Post by O-townClown » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:53 pm

USA Hockey requires teams to stay in approved hotels for their National Championships.
Be kind. Rewind.

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