Question

Discussion of Minnesota Youth Hockey

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Blueliner16
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Question

Post by Blueliner16 » Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:36 pm

Hearing Minnesota will now have winter AAA. Is there any truth to this? Thanks

SCBlueLiner
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Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:11 pm

Post by SCBlueLiner » Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:36 pm

Interesting. I had a 2004 birth year dad tell me that at a tournament a month or so ago. Said it was going to be up in Duluth area. Not sure if true.

CHI-TOWN HOCKEYDAD
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Post by CHI-TOWN HOCKEYDAD » Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:22 pm

YHH has a recent article on this subject.

savagegopher
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Post by savagegopher » Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:37 pm

What's sad is its a group of delusional 2004 parents pushing this, the reality is the 2004 group isn't very good in Minnesota

oldschoolpuckster
Posts: 162
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:51 am

Post by oldschoolpuckster » Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:15 pm

I've heard it will be here this fall in the east metro (NSP) and it will be Bantam AA, U16 and U18 for boys and U14, U16 and U19 for girls. It will be affiliated with a certain "hockey" school. Should be fun to watch that thread all winter :D

SCBlueLiner
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Post by SCBlueLiner » Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:43 pm

I think having Tier 1 hockey is a mistake and a shame. It's going to be the beginning of the end for the community structure.

thefatcat
Posts: 261
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:16 pm

Post by thefatcat » Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:37 pm

Is Tier I hockey or what you guys are describing currently the model used in places like Chicago or out east?

Would an accurate (or somewhat close) example be similar to a year round Machine or Blades?

What '04 parents are pushing it and where are they located? Better question, why are they pushing it?

Please inform the uninformed :D

Froggy Richards
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Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:15 am

Post by Froggy Richards » Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:09 am


JSR
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Post by JSR » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:42 am

I don't know how the Revoluiton are or are not tied to all this but as I understand it the Revolution are trying to relocate their program from Des Moines to Minnesota. And from what I understand their intent is to have teams at the 2000 age level and lower. So counter to the YHH level there are wheels in motion for younger levels not just U16 and U18 levels right now.

Froggy Richards
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Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:15 am

Post by Froggy Richards » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:09 am

JSR wrote:I don't know how the Revoluiton are or are not tied to all this but as I understand it the Revolution are trying to relocate their program from Des Moines to Minnesota. And from what I understand their intent is to have teams at the 2000 age level and lower. So counter to the YHH level there are wheels in motion for younger levels not just U16 and U18 levels right now.
None of that really matters unless MN Hockey is open to the idea. I would think younger levels would be a much tougher sell. I'm surprised they are even considering U18. Who would these teams play at the younger levels? I know there are plenty of crazies out there but who in the world would sign up for that kind of travel and cost when you can get the same level of competition by playing AA hockey right at home?

stromboli
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:11 pm

Post by stromboli » Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:32 pm

There's a whole new generation of kids and parents who are traveling all spring and summer long outside of MN. They're ok with the cost and like the competition. I'm guessing that some also like the idea of checkbook hockey and wouldn't mind skipping the perceived politics, drama, mandatory volunteer hours, coaching, etc. that come with association hockey.

If tier 1 does come to MN, my guess is that there would be a limited number of teams, as there would be a limited number of parents that would choose the added expense and travel over community based teams. I don't think it would mean the end of community based hockey any more than open enrollment was. There were some heated debates on this forum about that -- and low and behold open enrollment wasn't the foretold collapse of associations throughout the state.

While it's fun for discussions, the reality of future tier1 hockey - IF - it comes to MN is that it will be a small group that take the plunge compared to the overwhelming majority. The sky is not falling, but the alarmists will proclaim it's the end.

I don't think it's anything different than what the affect of adding a few more private schools would be, and communities deal with that now. It simply opens up a few more spots on community-based teams.

The real problem and/or the loudest cries will come from those who feel like their little Sue or Johny is now falling behind "those" kids. Whatever. As some have already pointed out, there's great competition here already and no kid is going to fall behind by staying in MN. Which all but a few will/would.

Other cries will come from those I'd describe as traditionalists and/or yearn for the way it used to be.

At some point, I do think the genie will leave the bottle (if it hasn't already) and there will be some limited number of tier 1 teams. If that happens, I don't believe economics, MN hockey, etc. will allow for tier 1 it to be the end of community based hockey.

Disclaimer. Our/my kids have been asked multiple times to play on tier 1 teams in neighboring states over the years and we chose to stay in MN. We couldn't justify the expense. We also couldn't justify how much strain that would have put on our family by being apart during so much out of town travel during what is a very long, in my opinion, winter hockey season. It would have also limited our boys from playing other sports like football and lacrosse. That was our personal choice, and it was right for us. Others took the plunge, and we wished them the best. Still do. It takes a high level of commitment. If they end up with more national exposure because of that -- I say they've paid their dues and so be it.

SCBlueLiner
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Post by SCBlueLiner » Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:23 pm

I just don't want to see what has happened in Massachusetts and the New England states happen here. I'd much rather keep the door slammed shut on Tier 1 hockey here than open Pandora's box and hope for the best.

Funny, Minnesota sticks out as the model for USA Hockey about how things should be done, yet the model is being changed.

stromboli
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:11 pm

Post by stromboli » Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:29 pm

SCBlueLiner wrote:I just don't want to see what has happened in Massachusetts and the New England states happen here. I'd much rather keep the door slammed shut on Tier 1 hockey here than open Pandora's box and hope for the best.

Funny, Minnesota sticks out as the model for USA Hockey about how things should be done, yet the model is being changed.
Agreed.

SECoach
Posts: 399
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 10:29 am

Post by SECoach » Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:44 pm

stromboli wrote:There's a whole new generation of kids and parents who are traveling all spring and summer long outside of MN. They're ok with the cost and like the competition. I'm guessing that some also like the idea of checkbook hockey and wouldn't mind skipping the perceived politics, drama, mandatory volunteer hours, coaching, etc. that come with association hockey.

If tier 1 does come to MN, my guess is that there would be a limited number of teams, as there would be a limited number of parents that would choose the added expense and travel over community based teams. I don't think it would mean the end of community based hockey any more than open enrollment was. There were some heated debates on this forum about that -- and low and behold open enrollment wasn't the foretold collapse of associations throughout the state.

While it's fun for discussions, the reality of future tier1 hockey - IF - it comes to MN is that it will be a small group that take the plunge compared to the overwhelming majority. The sky is not falling, but the alarmists will proclaim it's the end.

I don't think it's anything different than what the affect of adding a few more private schools would be, and communities deal with that now. It simply opens up a few more spots on community-based teams.

The real problem and/or the loudest cries will come from those who feel like their little Sue or Johny is now falling behind "those" kids. Whatever. As some have already pointed out, there's great competition here already and no kid is going to fall behind by staying in MN. Which all but a few will/would.

Other cries will come from those I'd describe as traditionalists and/or yearn for the way it used to be.

At some point, I do think the genie will leave the bottle (if it hasn't already) and there will be some limited number of tier 1 teams. If that happens, I don't believe economics, MN hockey, etc. will allow for tier 1 it to be the end of community based hockey.

Disclaimer. Our/my kids have been asked multiple times to play on tier 1 teams in neighboring states over the years and we chose to stay in MN. We couldn't justify the expense. We also couldn't justify how much strain that would have put on our family by being apart during so much out of town travel during what is a very long, in my opinion, winter hockey season. It would have also limited our boys from playing other sports like football and lacrosse. That was our personal choice, and it was right for us. Others took the plunge, and we wished them the best. Still do. It takes a high level of commitment. If they end up with more national exposure because of that -- I say they've paid their dues and so be it.
Tier 1 hockey tends to be entrepreneurial, rather than not for profit and those are the folks requesting the changes. For the reasons you stated above, once the horse is out of the barn, there will be plenty of entrepreneurs ready to step up and show you how they can keep your son or daughter from "falling behind", by leaving your local association and playing for them. Their interest will be purely ego and financial driven, but there will be lots of them. A few teams will lead to many, just as pretty much all summer teams are called "AAA". It makes people feel good that their kid is free to play with the big boys in the summer rather than being held back to the B team by the politics of the local association.

I guess I'm one of those purists, because I believe IF, and yes, it's still an if, things head this direction, we will be moaning in a few years just as they have been for several years in Michigan and Mass.

I guess one possible positive will be that when a kids doesn't make the private Tier 1 team, they won't be able to blame association politics, but rather they can just go try out for the sorta Tier 1 program.

In my opinion it's a bad idea and Minnesota Hockey needs to decide what they stand for and if they believe in their product or not.

stromboli
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:11 pm

Post by stromboli » Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:00 pm

SECoach wrote:
stromboli wrote:There's a whole new generation of kids and parents who are traveling all spring and summer long outside of MN. They're ok with the cost and like the competition. I'm guessing that some also like the idea of checkbook hockey and wouldn't mind skipping the perceived politics, drama, mandatory volunteer hours, coaching, etc. that come with association hockey.

If tier 1 does come to MN, my guess is that there would be a limited number of teams, as there would be a limited number of parents that would choose the added expense and travel over community based teams. I don't think it would mean the end of community based hockey any more than open enrollment was. There were some heated debates on this forum about that -- and low and behold open enrollment wasn't the foretold collapse of associations throughout the state.

While it's fun for discussions, the reality of future tier1 hockey - IF - it comes to MN is that it will be a small group that take the plunge compared to the overwhelming majority. The sky is not falling, but the alarmists will proclaim it's the end.

I don't think it's anything different than what the affect of adding a few more private schools would be, and communities deal with that now. It simply opens up a few more spots on community-based teams.

The real problem and/or the loudest cries will come from those who feel like their little Sue or Johny is now falling behind "those" kids. Whatever. As some have already pointed out, there's great competition here already and no kid is going to fall behind by staying in MN. Which all but a few will/would.

Other cries will come from those I'd describe as traditionalists and/or yearn for the way it used to be.

At some point, I do think the genie will leave the bottle (if it hasn't already) and there will be some limited number of tier 1 teams. If that happens, I don't believe economics, MN hockey, etc. will allow for tier 1 it to be the end of community based hockey.

Disclaimer. Our/my kids have been asked multiple times to play on tier 1 teams in neighboring states over the years and we chose to stay in MN. We couldn't justify the expense. We also couldn't justify how much strain that would have put on our family by being apart during so much out of town travel during what is a very long, in my opinion, winter hockey season. It would have also limited our boys from playing other sports like football and lacrosse. That was our personal choice, and it was right for us. Others took the plunge, and we wished them the best. Still do. It takes a high level of commitment. If they end up with more national exposure because of that -- I say they've paid their dues and so be it.
Tier 1 hockey tends to be entrepreneurial, rather than not for profit and those are the folks requesting the changes. For the reasons you stated above, once the horse is out of the barn, there will be plenty of entrepreneurs ready to step up and show you how they can keep your son or daughter from "falling behind", by leaving your local association and playing for them. Their interest will be purely ego and financial driven, but there will be lots of them. A few teams will lead to many, just as pretty much all summer teams are called "AAA". It makes people feel good that their kid is free to play with the big boys in the summer rather than being held back to the B team by the politics of the local association.

I guess I'm one of those purists, because I believe IF, and yes, it's still an if, things head this direction, we will be moaning in a few years just as they have been for several years in Michigan and Mass.

I guess one possible positive will be that when a kids doesn't make the private Tier 1 team, they won't be able to blame association politics, but rather they can just go try out for the sorta Tier 1 program.

In my opinion it's a bad idea and Minnesota Hockey needs to decide what they stand for and if they believe in their product or not.
My hope is that MN is far enough west that travel time and cost would disuade most from believing they need to pursue tier 1. You can fit most of the northeast within the state of MN, so I understand why it's easier for them to lose the battle with tier 1. Even from Michigan, a lot of games and tourneys are within driving distances that aren't prohibitive.

One of the blessings in being in northern flyover land is that for a team here to play tier 1 and compete against other programs would more than likely require plane travel, which jacks up the overall cost. That's not to say that you couldn't keep things reasonable by playing teams from the midwest, but it would still be a grind.

If it became that tier 1 became the new norm within the state so that out of state travel wasn't a factor -- that would be trouble. I wouldn't want to see that, or have my youngest be a part of it.

Froggy Richards
Posts: 623
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:15 am

Post by Froggy Richards » Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:07 pm

stromboli wrote:
SECoach wrote:
stromboli wrote:There's a whole new generation of kids and parents who are traveling all spring and summer long outside of MN. They're ok with the cost and like the competition. I'm guessing that some also like the idea of checkbook hockey and wouldn't mind skipping the perceived politics, drama, mandatory volunteer hours, coaching, etc. that come with association hockey.

If tier 1 does come to MN, my guess is that there would be a limited number of teams, as there would be a limited number of parents that would choose the added expense and travel over community based teams. I don't think it would mean the end of community based hockey any more than open enrollment was. There were some heated debates on this forum about that -- and low and behold open enrollment wasn't the foretold collapse of associations throughout the state.

While it's fun for discussions, the reality of future tier1 hockey - IF - it comes to MN is that it will be a small group that take the plunge compared to the overwhelming majority. The sky is not falling, but the alarmists will proclaim it's the end.

I don't think it's anything different than what the affect of adding a few more private schools would be, and communities deal with that now. It simply opens up a few more spots on community-based teams.

The real problem and/or the loudest cries will come from those who feel like their little Sue or Johny is now falling behind "those" kids. Whatever. As some have already pointed out, there's great competition here already and no kid is going to fall behind by staying in MN. Which all but a few will/would.

Other cries will come from those I'd describe as traditionalists and/or yearn for the way it used to be.

At some point, I do think the genie will leave the bottle (if it hasn't already) and there will be some limited number of tier 1 teams. If that happens, I don't believe economics, MN hockey, etc. will allow for tier 1 it to be the end of community based hockey.

Disclaimer. Our/my kids have been asked multiple times to play on tier 1 teams in neighboring states over the years and we chose to stay in MN. We couldn't justify the expense. We also couldn't justify how much strain that would have put on our family by being apart during so much out of town travel during what is a very long, in my opinion, winter hockey season. It would have also limited our boys from playing other sports like football and lacrosse. That was our personal choice, and it was right for us. Others took the plunge, and we wished them the best. Still do. It takes a high level of commitment. If they end up with more national exposure because of that -- I say they've paid their dues and so be it.
Tier 1 hockey tends to be entrepreneurial, rather than not for profit and those are the folks requesting the changes. For the reasons you stated above, once the horse is out of the barn, there will be plenty of entrepreneurs ready to step up and show you how they can keep your son or daughter from "falling behind", by leaving your local association and playing for them. Their interest will be purely ego and financial driven, but there will be lots of them. A few teams will lead to many, just as pretty much all summer teams are called "AAA". It makes people feel good that their kid is free to play with the big boys in the summer rather than being held back to the B team by the politics of the local association.

I guess I'm one of those purists, because I believe IF, and yes, it's still an if, things head this direction, we will be moaning in a few years just as they have been for several years in Michigan and Mass.

I guess one possible positive will be that when a kids doesn't make the private Tier 1 team, they won't be able to blame association politics, but rather they can just go try out for the sorta Tier 1 program.

In my opinion it's a bad idea and Minnesota Hockey needs to decide what they stand for and if they believe in their product or not.
My hope is that MN is far enough west that travel time and cost would disuade most from believing they need to pursue tier 1. You can fit most of the northeast within the state of MN, so I understand why it's easier for them to lose the battle with tier 1. Even from Michigan, a lot of games and tourneys are within driving distances that aren't prohibitive.

One of the blessings in being in northern flyover land is that for a team here to play tier 1 and compete against other programs would more than likely require plane travel, which jacks up the overall cost. That's not to say that you couldn't keep things reasonable by playing teams from the midwest, but it would still be a grind.

If it became that tier 1 became the new norm within the state so that out of state travel wasn't a factor -- that would be trouble. I wouldn't want to see that, or have my youngest be a part of it.
Basketball Coaches all over the State are hoping and praying..........
Last edited by Froggy Richards on Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Froggy Richards
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Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:15 am

Post by Froggy Richards » Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:09 pm

stromboli wrote:There's a whole new generation of kids and parents who are traveling all spring and summer long outside of MN. They're ok with the cost and like the competition. I'm guessing that some also like the idea of checkbook hockey and wouldn't mind skipping the perceived politics, drama, mandatory volunteer hours, coaching, etc. that come with association hockey.

If tier 1 does come to MN, my guess is that there would be a limited number of teams, as there would be a limited number of parents that would choose the added expense and travel over community based teams. I don't think it would mean the end of community based hockey any more than open enrollment was. There were some heated debates on this forum about that -- and low and behold open enrollment wasn't the foretold collapse of associations throughout the state.

While it's fun for discussions, the reality of future tier1 hockey - IF - it comes to MN is that it will be a small group that take the plunge compared to the overwhelming majority. The sky is not falling, but the alarmists will proclaim it's the end.

I don't think it's anything different than what the affect of adding a few more private schools would be, and communities deal with that now. It simply opens up a few more spots on community-based teams.

The real problem and/or the loudest cries will come from those who feel like their little Sue or Johny is now falling behind "those" kids. Whatever. As some have already pointed out, there's great competition here already and no kid is going to fall behind by staying in MN. Which all but a few will/would.

Other cries will come from those I'd describe as traditionalists and/or yearn for the way it used to be.

At some point, I do think the genie will leave the bottle (if it hasn't already) and there will be some limited number of tier 1 teams. If that happens, I don't believe economics, MN hockey, etc. will allow for tier 1 it to be the end of community based hockey.

Disclaimer. Our/my kids have been asked multiple times to play on tier 1 teams in neighboring states over the years and we chose to stay in MN. We couldn't justify the expense. We also couldn't justify how much strain that would have put on our family by being apart during so much out of town travel during what is a very long, in my opinion, winter hockey season. It would have also limited our boys from playing other sports like football and lacrosse. That was our personal choice, and it was right for us. Others took the plunge, and we wished them the best. Still do. It takes a high level of commitment. If they end up with more national exposure because of that -- I say they've paid their dues and so be it.
If the Association kids spend the time on the ice that the Tier 1 kids spend riding across the country in the Suburban, they should come out ahead!

SECoach
Posts: 399
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 10:29 am

Post by SECoach » Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:15 pm

stromboli wrote:
SECoach wrote:
stromboli wrote:There's a whole new generation of kids and parents who are traveling all spring and summer long outside of MN. They're ok with the cost and like the competition. I'm guessing that some also like the idea of checkbook hockey and wouldn't mind skipping the perceived politics, drama, mandatory volunteer hours, coaching, etc. that come with association hockey.

If tier 1 does come to MN, my guess is that there would be a limited number of teams, as there would be a limited number of parents that would choose the added expense and travel over community based teams. I don't think it would mean the end of community based hockey any more than open enrollment was. There were some heated debates on this forum about that -- and low and behold open enrollment wasn't the foretold collapse of associations throughout the state.

While it's fun for discussions, the reality of future tier1 hockey - IF - it comes to MN is that it will be a small group that take the plunge compared to the overwhelming majority. The sky is not falling, but the alarmists will proclaim it's the end.

I don't think it's anything different than what the affect of adding a few more private schools would be, and communities deal with that now. It simply opens up a few more spots on community-based teams.

The real problem and/or the loudest cries will come from those who feel like their little Sue or Johny is now falling behind "those" kids. Whatever. As some have already pointed out, there's great competition here already and no kid is going to fall behind by staying in MN. Which all but a few will/would.

Other cries will come from those I'd describe as traditionalists and/or yearn for the way it used to be.

At some point, I do think the genie will leave the bottle (if it hasn't already) and there will be some limited number of tier 1 teams. If that happens, I don't believe economics, MN hockey, etc. will allow for tier 1 it to be the end of community based hockey.

Disclaimer. Our/my kids have been asked multiple times to play on tier 1 teams in neighboring states over the years and we chose to stay in MN. We couldn't justify the expense. We also couldn't justify how much strain that would have put on our family by being apart during so much out of town travel during what is a very long, in my opinion, winter hockey season. It would have also limited our boys from playing other sports like football and lacrosse. That was our personal choice, and it was right for us. Others took the plunge, and we wished them the best. Still do. It takes a high level of commitment. If they end up with more national exposure because of that -- I say they've paid their dues and so be it.
Tier 1 hockey tends to be entrepreneurial, rather than not for profit and those are the folks requesting the changes. For the reasons you stated above, once the horse is out of the barn, there will be plenty of entrepreneurs ready to step up and show you how they can keep your son or daughter from "falling behind", by leaving your local association and playing for them. Their interest will be purely ego and financial driven, but there will be lots of them. A few teams will lead to many, just as pretty much all summer teams are called "AAA". It makes people feel good that their kid is free to play with the big boys in the summer rather than being held back to the B team by the politics of the local association.

I guess I'm one of those purists, because I believe IF, and yes, it's still an if, things head this direction, we will be moaning in a few years just as they have been for several years in Michigan and Mass.

I guess one possible positive will be that when a kids doesn't make the private Tier 1 team, they won't be able to blame association politics, but rather they can just go try out for the sorta Tier 1 program.

In my opinion it's a bad idea and Minnesota Hockey needs to decide what they stand for and if they believe in their product or not.
My hope is that MN is far enough west that travel time and cost would disuade most from believing they need to pursue tier 1. You can fit most of the northeast within the state of MN, so I understand why it's easier for them to lose the battle with tier 1. Even from Michigan, a lot of games and tourneys are within driving distances that aren't prohibitive.

One of the blessings in being in northern flyover land is that for a team here to play tier 1 and compete against other programs would more than likely require plane travel, which jacks up the overall cost. That's not to say that you couldn't keep things reasonable by playing teams from the midwest, but it would still be a grind.

If it became that tier 1 became the new norm within the state so that out of state travel wasn't a factor -- that would be trouble. I wouldn't want to see that, or have my youngest be a part of it.
Many of today's parents are afraid of their kid missing out, or worse yet being considered non-elite. They will find a way to fit it into their lives and budgets. This is clear to me by what's already happening in other sports here and all over the country. That's why their are several "National Tournaments" for softball, baseball, etc rather than just one. There is someone that wants to make the money, and there are plenty willing to spend both the time and the money. I think if you crack the door open, the crowd will come rushing through.

JSR
Posts: 1673
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:26 pm

Post by JSR » Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:04 pm

Froggy Richards wrote:
stromboli wrote:There's a whole new generation of kids and parents who are traveling all spring and summer long outside of MN. They're ok with the cost and like the competition. I'm guessing that some also like the idea of checkbook hockey and wouldn't mind skipping the perceived politics, drama, mandatory volunteer hours, coaching, etc. that come with association hockey.

If tier 1 does come to MN, my guess is that there would be a limited number of teams, as there would be a limited number of parents that would choose the added expense and travel over community based teams. I don't think it would mean the end of community based hockey any more than open enrollment was. There were some heated debates on this forum about that -- and low and behold open enrollment wasn't the foretold collapse of associations throughout the state.

While it's fun for discussions, the reality of future tier1 hockey - IF - it comes to MN is that it will be a small group that take the plunge compared to the overwhelming majority. The sky is not falling, but the alarmists will proclaim it's the end.

I don't think it's anything different than what the affect of adding a few more private schools would be, and communities deal with that now. It simply opens up a few more spots on community-based teams.

The real problem and/or the loudest cries will come from those who feel like their little Sue or Johny is now falling behind "those" kids. Whatever. As some have already pointed out, there's great competition here already and no kid is going to fall behind by staying in MN. Which all but a few will/would.

Other cries will come from those I'd describe as traditionalists and/or yearn for the way it used to be.

At some point, I do think the genie will leave the bottle (if it hasn't already) and there will be some limited number of tier 1 teams. If that happens, I don't believe economics, MN hockey, etc. will allow for tier 1 it to be the end of community based hockey.

Disclaimer. Our/my kids have been asked multiple times to play on tier 1 teams in neighboring states over the years and we chose to stay in MN. We couldn't justify the expense. We also couldn't justify how much strain that would have put on our family by being apart during so much out of town travel during what is a very long, in my opinion, winter hockey season. It would have also limited our boys from playing other sports like football and lacrosse. That was our personal choice, and it was right for us. Others took the plunge, and we wished them the best. Still do. It takes a high level of commitment. If they end up with more national exposure because of that -- I say they've paid their dues and so be it.
If the Association kids spend the time on the ice that the Tier 1 kids spend riding across the country in the Suburban, they should come out ahead!
Sorry Froggy but you are describing the AAA experience of 15 years ago. Listen I get that Minneaplois metro area has tons of amazing hockey and that most do not need to do a Tier 1 team to get good hockey and good training but the reality is the rest of the hockey world, including out state MN, has to travel to play games. Even assoication hockey has several hours of travel each weekend to play their regular games for most areas outside the metro area. Practices for most kids are near by even for Tier 1. Games might not be in the metro area but the reality is for the majority of the rest of the world the travel isn't that much different and does not add up to any more or less time on the pond or at the rink or in the basement shooting etc... etc... My sons get just as much, if not more, ice time and instruction playing Tier 1 than they ever did oplaying association hockey. yes it's a bit more expensive and there are give or take two additional weekends where we have to travel a bit farther than the norm for games (Like say Detroit) but overall it's not at all what you describe or think it is. We've been doig it for 3 years now, and again for the majority of us who do not live in metro Minneapolis to find coaches who know what they are doing and teams that can compete at a high level it's necessary... do I think MN "needs' Tier 1 AAA hockey, no I do not, but considering this is America it does baffle on why so many are insistant on not allowing your citizens the freedom of choice in this regard. It really is mind boggling, if we tried to monoplize anything else the way MN Hockey monopolizes association hockey you'd be screaming bloody murder, but because it's hockey it's ok, that just doesn't make sense to me..... :?:

oldschoolpuckster
Posts: 162
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:51 am

Post by oldschoolpuckster » Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:05 pm

If it opens up to Bantam AA...look out. I bet that team will have to cut 50-60 kids its first year. Just look at the current AAA landscape for the proof. The number of kids (and parents) that will want this over association hocket at Bantams will be off the charts.

MN has the good fortune of having a lot of kids/communities/opportunity that the current model works here. BUT. The number of kids(parents) around now that want something more or unique for their little Johnny Superstar will feed this new league with more kids than they will know what to do with. Community based hockey will still be here and continue to be strong. Just look at the MSHSL, 41+ kids leaving for Juniors last year and I bet there will be another 50-60 this year, and we still had a great Tournament. This will simply create more opportunity for more kids to play at higher levels (which is good) There are (and always will be) plenty of top end kids that choose to stay home and play for their community HS team.

Like I said earlier...this is going to be a fun topic to watch this year.

JSR
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Post by JSR » Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:06 pm

Froggy Richards wrote:
JSR wrote:I don't know how the Revoluiton are or are not tied to all this but as I understand it the Revolution are trying to relocate their program from Des Moines to Minnesota. And from what I understand their intent is to have teams at the 2000 age level and lower. So counter to the YHH level there are wheels in motion for younger levels not just U16 and U18 levels right now.
None of that really matters unless MN Hockey is open to the idea. I would think younger levels would be a much tougher sell. I'm surprised they are even considering U18. Who would these teams play at the younger levels? I know there are plenty of crazies out there but who in the world would sign up for that kind of travel and cost when you can get the same level of competition by playing AA hockey right at home?
They already are open to the idea Froggy... that what the writing on the wall keeps telling you.

CHI-TOWN HOCKEYDAD
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Post by CHI-TOWN HOCKEYDAD » Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:27 pm

SECoach wrote: Their interest will be purely ego and financial driven, but there will be lots of them. A few teams will lead to many, just as pretty much all summer teams are called "AAA".
But wouldn't MN Hockey have control over the number they sanction? IL only has 4 Tier 1 teams. To my knowledge they will not sanction anymore. Whether or not that is true, MNH could limit it to a handful of teams which really would not affect association hockey but give those clamoring, their option to spend big $ to travel around to play. Not necessarily for us, but not bad to have a choice and really does not have to be allowed to destroy the community based associations.

SECoach
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Post by SECoach » Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:40 pm

JSR wrote:
Froggy Richards wrote:
stromboli wrote:There's a whole new generation of kids and parents who are traveling all spring and summer long outside of MN. They're ok with the cost and like the competition. I'm guessing that some also like the idea of checkbook hockey and wouldn't mind skipping the perceived politics, drama, mandatory volunteer hours, coaching, etc. that come with association hockey.

If tier 1 does come to MN, my guess is that there would be a limited number of teams, as there would be a limited number of parents that would choose the added expense and travel over community based teams. I don't think it would mean the end of community based hockey any more than open enrollment was. There were some heated debates on this forum about that -- and low and behold open enrollment wasn't the foretold collapse of associations throughout the state.

While it's fun for discussions, the reality of future tier1 hockey - IF - it comes to MN is that it will be a small group that take the plunge compared to the overwhelming majority. The sky is not falling, but the alarmists will proclaim it's the end.

I don't think it's anything different than what the affect of adding a few more private schools would be, and communities deal with that now. It simply opens up a few more spots on community-based teams.

The real problem and/or the loudest cries will come from those who feel like their little Sue or Johny is now falling behind "those" kids. Whatever. As some have already pointed out, there's great competition here already and no kid is going to fall behind by staying in MN. Which all but a few will/would.

Other cries will come from those I'd describe as traditionalists and/or yearn for the way it used to be.

At some point, I do think the genie will leave the bottle (if it hasn't already) and there will be some limited number of tier 1 teams. If that happens, I don't believe economics, MN hockey, etc. will allow for tier 1 it to be the end of community based hockey.

Disclaimer. Our/my kids have been asked multiple times to play on tier 1 teams in neighboring states over the years and we chose to stay in MN. We couldn't justify the expense. We also couldn't justify how much strain that would have put on our family by being apart during so much out of town travel during what is a very long, in my opinion, winter hockey season. It would have also limited our boys from playing other sports like football and lacrosse. That was our personal choice, and it was right for us. Others took the plunge, and we wished them the best. Still do. It takes a high level of commitment. If they end up with more national exposure because of that -- I say they've paid their dues and so be it.
If the Association kids spend the time on the ice that the Tier 1 kids spend riding across the country in the Suburban, they should come out ahead!
Sorry Froggy but you are describing the AAA experience of 15 years ago. Listen I get that Minneaplois metro area has tons of amazing hockey and that most do not need to do a Tier 1 team to get good hockey and good training but the reality is the rest of the hockey world, including out state MN, has to travel to play games. Even assoication hockey has several hours of travel each weekend to play their regular games for most areas outside the metro area. Practices for most kids are near by even for Tier 1. Games might not be in the metro area but the reality is for the majority of the rest of the world the travel isn't that much different and does not add up to any more or less time on the pond or at the rink or in the basement shooting etc... etc... My sons get just as much, if not more, ice time and instruction playing Tier 1 than they ever did oplaying association hockey. yes it's a bit more expensive and there are give or take two additional weekends where we have to travel a bit farther than the norm for games (Like say Detroit) but overall it's not at all what you describe or think it is. We've been doig it for 3 years now, and again for the majority of us who do not live in metro Minneapolis to find coaches who know what they are doing and teams that can compete at a high level it's necessary... do I think MN "needs' Tier 1 AAA hockey, no I do not, but considering this is America it does baffle on why so many are insistant on not allowing your citizens the freedom of choice in this regard. It really is mind boggling, if we tried to monoplize anything else the way MN Hockey monopolizes association hockey you'd be screaming bloody murder, but because it's hockey it's ok, that just doesn't make sense to me..... :?:
The "this is America argument doesn't apply. When you "choose" to join an organization, you "choose" to be governed by their rules. Name any organization for me that when you choose to join, you are free to make your own rules? Surely you have a voice in those rules (unless of course you are a member of a neighboring affiliate), but no valid organization can adhere to the "this is America" position that you can make your own rules on the basis of the freedoms we are guaranteed as Americans.

Froggy Richards
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Post by Froggy Richards » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:30 am

JSR wrote:
Froggy Richards wrote:
JSR wrote:I don't know how the Revoluiton are or are not tied to all this but as I understand it the Revolution are trying to relocate their program from Des Moines to Minnesota. And from what I understand their intent is to have teams at the 2000 age level and lower. So counter to the YHH level there are wheels in motion for younger levels not just U16 and U18 levels right now.
None of that really matters unless MN Hockey is open to the idea. I would think younger levels would be a much tougher sell. I'm surprised they are even considering U18. Who would these teams play at the younger levels? I know there are plenty of crazies out there but who in the world would sign up for that kind of travel and cost when you can get the same level of competition by playing AA hockey right at home?
They already are open to the idea Froggy... that what the writing on the wall keeps telling you.
I haven't seen the wall you are referring to, all I've seen is the YHH article. According to that, they aren't open to the Younger Levels. I just hope they're right.

ez2bcheesy
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Post by ez2bcheesy » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:26 am

So, how'd the vote go??? Anyone know???

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