Tournament Hosts trying to fix brackets!

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Knowyourrole
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:17 pm

Tournament Hosts trying to fix brackets!

Post by Knowyourrole » Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:21 pm

Why do teams try and set up brackets and screw up a tourney? Nowin the Bantam AA division in Moose Goheen you have the 1&2 teams playing in the semis because the tournament host had 1 bracket that was a lot easier to walk through and get the 1 seed. I'm not trying to take anything away from Jefferson but pool A&B had like 5 top 10 teams and pool C had 0. Jefferson did what they had to do but again I think the best game you will see will be in the morning and not in the Championship. If you want to host a great tournament have a draw and make 3 even pools. Sorry theres my rant!

scoreandscoreoften
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:28 pm

Post by scoreandscoreoften » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:12 pm

Agree, pretty poor attempt at making up a draw. Host teams do this all the time but this one was over the top. But, it didn't work. Even the wild card came from the toughest pool.

Off subject but it's almost 6pm and no scores reported for the bantam games on Sunday. Semi's played at 9am. Pee Wee scores posted but no bantam. Can someone tell me why tournaments don't do a better job at this. Even some of the best run tournaments drop the ball when it comes to posting scores. In this day and age of all kinds of electronic communication it seems it would pretty easy to post scores in a timely manner.

57special
Posts: 289
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:23 pm

Post by 57special » Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:00 pm

Sometimes it's screwed up by inattention rather than trying to rig the results in their favor. The Woodbury Rumble BB1 setup had two four team pools. One pool had four teams that were stronger than all of the other teams in the other pool. Thing is, Woodbury themselves stuck themselves in the better grouping and didn't make it through to the semis as a result, even though they are a good team.

I've run into funny business up at the Moose Goheen before, though, and it certainly was in favor of the hosts.

wingnuts
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:25 am

Post by wingnuts » Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:16 am

scoreandscoreoften wrote:Agree, pretty poor attempt at making up a draw. Host teams do this all the time but this one was over the top. But, it didn't work. Even the wild card came from the toughest pool.

Off subject but it's almost 6pm and no scores reported for the bantam games on Sunday. Semi's played at 9am. Pee Wee scores posted but no bantam. Can someone tell me why tournaments don't do a better job at this. Even some of the best run tournaments drop the ball when it comes to posting scores. In this day and age of all kinds of electronic communication it seems it would pretty easy to post scores in a timely manner.
With so few volunteers running these tournaments and crappy wifi at the rinks, it's hard to keep the scores updated online, unless you have one dedicated person entering scores.

DrGaf
Posts: 636
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:08 pm

Re: Tournament Hosts trying to fix brackets!

Post by DrGaf » Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:37 am

Knowyourrole wrote:Why do teams try and set up brackets and screw up a tourney? Nowin the Bantam AA division in Moose Goheen you have the 1&2 teams playing in the semis because the tournament host had 1 bracket that was a lot easier to walk through and get the 1 seed. I'm not trying to take anything away from Jefferson but pool A&B had like 5 top 10 teams and pool C had 0. Jefferson did what they had to do but again I think the best game you will see will be in the morning and not in the Championship. If you want to host a great tournament have a draw and make 3 even pools. Sorry theres my rant!
1st off ... 99% agree with you. It is ridiculous when you run into these things, especially when you have a three hour drive to get there. But in the devil's advocate 1% category ... run your own damn tourney then. Dealer's choice in my book, don't like it ... don't go back.

I've been a part of an assn where they pulled 8 teams out of a southern MN tourney (multiple levels) after how the PWB's got treated in the 1st tourney of the year (deeper than the seedings, major officiating/safety concerns as well with zero response/care from the tourney director). Home-cookin' may taste good, but it can cost you more in the long run.

Besides, WBL could have done worse by moving the Jags for East or EP.

And congrats to Centennial ... DAMN they look good.
Sorry, fresh out, Don't Really Give Any.

jpiehl
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:09 am

Re: Tournament Hosts trying to fix brackets!

Post by jpiehl » Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:21 pm

DrGaf wrote:
Knowyourrole wrote:Why do teams try and set up brackets and screw up a tourney? Nowin the Bantam AA division in Moose Goheen you have the 1&2 teams playing in the semis because the tournament host had 1 bracket that was a lot easier to walk through and get the 1 seed. I'm not trying to take anything away from Jefferson but pool A&B had like 5 top 10 teams and pool C had 0. Jefferson did what they had to do but again I think the best game you will see will be in the morning and not in the Championship. If you want to host a great tournament have a draw and make 3 even pools. Sorry theres my rant!
1st off ... 99% agree with you. It is ridiculous when you run into these things, especially when you have a three hour drive to get there. But in the devil's advocate 1% category ... run your own damn tourney then. Dealer's choice in my book, don't like it ... don't go back.

I've been a part of an assn where they pulled 8 teams out of a southern MN tourney (multiple levels) after how the PWB's got treated in the 1st tourney of the year (deeper than the seedings, major officiating/safety concerns as well with zero response/care from the tourney director). Home-cookin' may taste good, but it can cost you more in the long run.

Besides, WBL could have done worse by moving the Jags for East or EP.

And congrats to Centennial ... DAMN they look good.
Exactly what DrGraf said. If you don't like it, don't go back. Problem is, most people will go back because it is one of the 'good' tournaments. If their actions followed their complaints there would be changes.

sinbin
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Post by sinbin » Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:02 pm

I've seen it all over a decade of youth hockey. One 16-team bracket, placed State #1, #2, #3, #4 immediately in a row of the top half of one 8-team bracket. Where do you think the host team was? As far away from #1-4 as possible. One other time, 3 pools of 4, top 4 teams in one pool (all of them top-10 ranked), next 4 teams in second pool, and last 4 teams in 3rd pool. The one exception is that the host team, which was probably 3rd-best in the tournament, was placed with the 3 worst teams, virtually guaranteeing them a spot in the championship game. I called the tournament director on this and she said that the pools were made earlier and she used random rankings. I checked the history. She lied. We never went back.

Yes, you'll always see homers do this, but some are worse than others. The one common denominator is, for those who say they are placing pools randomly, the host team gets the most favorable draw about 95% of the time. So, if random, it would be 50%. Almost everyone does it, but at least have the class (someone else will need to come up with a better word for me, since I can't give them any credit for having class) to admit it and don't continue to lie. We know who you are and you're embarrassing yourselves.

And yes, I've managed numerous tournaments and entire volunteer system for many years. It's not rocket science. Sorry I don't have a better solution other than to document the favoritism and send it to the board of the offending association. They will probably do nothing about it, but at least it might take the edge off the frustration. If there's enough feedback, things may indeed change. We've removed refs due to safety and blatant favoritism issues, so it can be done. It takes a darn village, though.

Mnhockeys
Posts: 455
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:03 pm

Post by Mnhockeys » Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:26 pm

The hostee of the Moose Goheen probably had a favoritism on their Bantam team, as the way the pools were set up. But didn't he or she throw WBL PWA team to the wolf?

57special
Posts: 289
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:23 pm

Post by 57special » Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:10 pm

don't have a son playing PW, only Bantam?

Rick O'Shay
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Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 12:58 am

Post by Rick O'Shay » Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:31 pm

To the best of my knowledge the coaches at each level would have final say in the tournament brackets. Looks like a poor decision by a less than average coaching staff. Way to bring shame to what has been known as a premier tournament up until this year. Moose would be ashamed!

Green and White Fan
Posts: 439
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2002 3:51 pm

Post by Green and White Fan » Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:24 pm

Not all tournaments are set up that way. The Roseau Bantams hosted two 16 team tournaments and a 12 team tournament this year. All 3 tournament champions came out of Roseau's pool and none were Roseau. I think you see a lot of tournaments where the host team tries to make an easier path to the semi-finals and not sure there is anything wrong with that. Playing at home in front of your fans, you want your team to have some success.

DrGaf
Posts: 636
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:08 pm

Post by DrGaf » Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:33 pm

Green and White Fan wrote:Not all tournaments are set up that way. The Roseau Bantams hosted two 16 team tournaments and a 12 team tournament this year. All 3 tournament champions came out of Roseau's pool and none were Roseau. I think you see a lot of tournaments where the host team tries to make an easier path to the semi-finals and not sure there is anything wrong with that. Playing at home in front of your fans, you want your team to have some success.
Roseau is everything good about hockey.
Sorry, fresh out, Don't Really Give Any.

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