Chitown How are the Mn Bantams playing w/00's

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old goalie85
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Chitown How are the Mn Bantams playing w/00's

Post by old goalie85 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:25 am

All four teams have 00's on teams. Playing at the 01 level at the Bauer world.

observer
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Post by observer » Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:30 am

I think because the MN teams aren't really Tier 1 AAA and also we have 40? Bantam AA teams in MN so potentially watered down a bit in the teams and tourney organizers minds.

All MN teams had good starts.

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Post by TheHockeyDJ » Sun Nov 08, 2015 8:12 am

Shocked that Edina didn't route team Alaska, won only 5-3. I would of guessed 10-0 would have been the result. Hopefully Minnetonka has a good finish to the tourney as well as the Minneapolis Storm in their division.
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Post by JSR » Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:00 pm

TheHockeyDJ wrote:Shocked that Edina didn't route team Alaska, won only 5-3. I would of guessed 10-0 would have been the result. Hopefully Minnetonka has a good finish to the tourney as well as the Minneapolis Storm in their division.
Seeing their results and where they'd be ranked that is about the score I would have guessed for that game give or take. I know it's hard for some MN folks to accept this but Tier 1 AAA hockey is legit and pretty deep at the bantam and midget levels and anyone inside the top 60 or so teams at those age groups can compete.

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Re: Chitown How are the Mn Bantams playing w/00's

Post by JSR » Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:09 pm

old goalie85 wrote:All four teams have 00's on teams. Playing at the 01 level at the Bauer world.
Yea, most tournaments will allow MN bantam teams to play in the Bantam divisions despite the rest of the world following a calendar year birthdate cutoff. It's worth it to have quality team from MN in the tourney.

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Re: Chitown How are the Mn Bantams playing w/00's

Post by O-townClown » Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:06 am

JSR wrote:Yea, most tournaments will allow MN bantam teams to play in the Bantam divisions despite the rest of the world following a calendar year birthdate cutoff. It's worth it to have quality team from MN in the tourney.
Until they win or someone gets hurt.

I keep thinking they'll stop letting them in but the trend is going the other way and they are taking on more teams.

The 16U tournament teams that go there are proper age.
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Re: Chitown How are the Mn Bantams playing w/00's

Post by JSR » Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:19 pm

O-townClown wrote:
JSR wrote:Yea, most tournaments will allow MN bantam teams to play in the Bantam divisions despite the rest of the world following a calendar year birthdate cutoff. It's worth it to have quality team from MN in the tourney.
Until they win or someone gets hurt.

I keep thinking they'll stop letting them in but the trend is going the other way and they are taking on more teams.

The 16U tournament teams that go there are proper age.
Yes the U16 teams are proper age mainly because those U16 teams have now been constructed to be able to compete for Tier 1 national championships in MN so they had to align them properly...

That said I don't follow you on the other stuff. I haven't seen any data to support increase of injuries with MN teams in a tournament. Nor have I even heard any rhetoric. I also haven't heard any rhetoric to keep them out based on winning. Do a small percentage of people "whine" when they win because they are older , yes. Are there some arguments even here on this message board when a MN team wins that focuses on them being able to have older players and that making a difference, yes. But that is way different than advocating for not allowing them to even be in the tournament to begin with and I've never seen that from anyone I know or from any tourney directors etc.....

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Post by O-townClown » Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:57 pm

JSR, they haven't won yet. If Edina, Wayzata, or Minnetonka takes it some year you better believe there'll be a complaint about overage players.

You don't need to look for a study with lots of data on injuries. Just wait until an overage player badly injures a true Bantam at one of these things. BTW, there have been lots of comments from parents about the OneHockey tournament in Blaine. 4th graders playing a team of all 7th graders in Pee Wee tournaments
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Post by CHI-TOWN HOCKEYDAD » Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:01 pm

For this winter's One Hockey tourney in Blaine, they told our association our bantam AA needed to play U16 which would put 13s on the ice with 16s.

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Post by CHI-TOWN HOCKEYDAD » Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:04 pm

O-townClown wrote:JSR, they haven't won yet. If Edina, Wayzata, or Minnetonka takes it some year you better believe there'll be a complaint about overage players.

You don't need to look for a study with lots of data on injuries. Just wait until an overage player badly injures a true Bantam at one of these things. BTW, there have been lots of comments from parents about the OneHockey tournament in Blaine. 4th graders playing a team of all 7th graders in Pee Wee tournaments
Mpls BAA has won the Nexus AAA division two years straight with overage players.

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Post by O-townClown » Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:01 am

CHI-TOWN HOCKEYDAD wrote:Mpls BAA has won the Nexus AAA division two years straight with overage players.
I know they've won second division, and I'll even say it is BECAUSE they have overage players. I mean win the whole thing. As in beating Mission, CYA, the Detroit teams, and the top Ontario teams. I'm sure there'd be many complaints.
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Post by observer » Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:36 am

I don't think so. Tier 1 AAA coaches are pretty cocky and always looking for better competition. I don't know if the MN teams had 2 over aged players or 12 but I don't think any top teams would complain. Maybe an 8-0 loser in the early games fusses but not the strong teams.

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Post by JSR » Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:41 am

O-townClown wrote:
CHI-TOWN HOCKEYDAD wrote:Mpls BAA has won the Nexus AAA division two years straight with overage players.
I know they've won second division, and I'll even say it is BECAUSE they have overage players. I mean win the whole thing. As in beating Mission, CYA, the Detroit teams, and the top Ontario teams. I'm sure there'd be many complaints.
Yea the Nexus division is a watered down group of second tier teams and AA teams. Let me know when they win the Supreme division against the real Tier 1 first level teams and I'll be impressed. At the Bantam level Minnetonka and Edina both played in the Supreme division. Minnetonka did ok going 3-1-1 and losing 4-0 in the quarter finals to Compuware. Edina was 2-2, didn't get out of pol play and beat Team Alaska 5-3 in a consolation game.... :/

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Post by JSR » Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:48 am

observer wrote:I don't think so. Tier 1 AAA coaches are pretty cocky and always looking for better competition. I don't know if the MN teams had 2 over aged players or 12 but I don't think any top teams would complain. Maybe an 8-0 loser in the early games fusses but not the strong teams.
I agree. The Missions, the Little Caesars etc... none of them would complain at all

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Post by TheMayor » Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:09 am

[quote="JSR
Yea the Nexus division is a watered down group of second tier teams and AA teams. Let me know when they win the Supreme division against the real Tier 1 first level teams and I'll be impressed. At the Bantam level Minnetonka and Edina both played in the Supreme division. Minnetonka did ok going 3-1-1 and losing 4-0 in the quarter finals to Compuware. Edina was 2-2, didn't get out of pol play and beat Team Alaska 5-3 in a consolation game.... :/[/quote]

And Blaine went 3-1 losing in the round of 16 to the Madison Capitals

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Post by MrBoDangles » Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:43 pm

We are talking about singular suburbs playing top teams with kids brought in from all around the country, aren't we? Minnesota teams that also have many more younger kids to be able to round out a decent roster.. My son played a team with seven kids that were born in January.. Just days from being these "over-agers" you speak of.

Amazing what these community programs are able to do against that type of competition..

:roll:

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Post by MrBoDangles » Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:54 pm

Didn't I have this same conversation with the same cast of clowns a couple years ago?

We compared some roster birth dates and the tier 1 teams AVERAGED more than a month and a half older overall.., if I remember right?

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Post by CHI-TOWN HOCKEYDAD » Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:31 pm

JSR wrote:
O-townClown wrote:
CHI-TOWN HOCKEYDAD wrote:Mpls BAA has won the Nexus AAA division two years straight with overage players.
I know they've won second division, and I'll even say it is BECAUSE they have overage players. I mean win the whole thing. As in beating Mission, CYA, the Detroit teams, and the top Ontario teams. I'm sure there'd be many complaints.
Yea the Nexus division is a watered down group of second tier teams and AA teams. Let me know when they win the Supreme division against the real Tier 1 first level teams and I'll be impressed. At the Bantam level Minnetonka and Edina both played in the Supreme division. Minnetonka did ok going 3-1-1 and losing 4-0 in the quarter finals to Compuware. Edina was 2-2, didn't get out of pol play and beat Team Alaska 5-3 in a consolation game.... :/


Exactly why it makes sense that there be more complaint about this than winning at the Supreme level. Tend to agree the big boys won't complain. It's good too see our local associations ability to compete.

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Post by TheHockeyDJ » Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:48 am

That group of Alaska players must be a special group for them, watching HS hockey up here it is absolutely brutal how slow and unskilled it is. I think most of the better players though tend to move out of AK by the time they are 15.
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Post by JSR » Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:13 pm

MrBoDangles wrote:We are talking about singular suburbs playing top teams with kids brought in from all around the country, aren't we? Minnesota teams that also have many more younger kids to be able to round out a decent roster.. My son played a team with seven kids that were born in January.. Just days from being these "over-agers" you speak of.

Amazing what these community programs are able to do against that type of competition..

:roll:
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Most Tier 1 clubs are made up of kids from that general county area and are pulling from a pool of players about the same size an Edina pulls from so it's actually pretty fair comparison from that stand point. No they aren't all from the same exact suburb but they are from the same county/area code. Especially at the bantam and younger levels. Most billeting and pulling from "all over the country" doesn't usually start til midgets for the majority for Tier 1 players. Example my son's team is comprised of kids from 5 associations, all within a half hour of eachother and all five associations combined are not as big as Edina's. To me this illustrates why Tier 1 exists in other places like here, we just don't have the numbers. Nationally yes there are some exceptions but not enough to matter at bantam and younger, most "youth ages" are pretty much like my boys team. Midgets again are a different story.

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Post by MrBoDangles » Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:07 pm

JSR wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:We are talking about singular suburbs playing top teams with kids brought in from all around the country, aren't we? Minnesota teams that also have many more younger kids to be able to round out a decent roster.. My son played a team with seven kids that were born in January.. Just days from being these "over-agers" you speak of.

Amazing what these community programs are able to do against that type of competition..

:roll:
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Most Tier 1 clubs are made up of kids from that general county area and are pulling from a pool of players about the same size an Edina pulls from so it's actually pretty fair comparison from that stand point. No they aren't all from the same exact suburb but they are from the same county/area code. Especially at the bantam and younger levels. Most billeting and pulling from "all over the country" doesn't usually start til midgets for the majority for Tier 1 players. Example my son's team is comprised of kids from 5 associations, all within a half hour of eachother and all five associations combined are not as big as Edina's. To me this illustrates why Tier 1 exists in other places like here, we just don't have the numbers. Nationally yes there are some exceptions but not enough to matter at bantam and younger, most "youth ages" are pretty much like my boys team. Midgets again are a different story.
How many tier 1 teams do you have in your state?

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Post by JSR » Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:02 am

MrBoDangles wrote:
JSR wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:We are talking about singular suburbs playing top teams with kids brought in from all around the country, aren't we? Minnesota teams that also have many more younger kids to be able to round out a decent roster.. My son played a team with seven kids that were born in January.. Just days from being these "over-agers" you speak of.

Amazing what these community programs are able to do against that type of competition..

:roll:
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Most Tier 1 clubs are made up of kids from that general county area and are pulling from a pool of players about the same size an Edina pulls from so it's actually pretty fair comparison from that stand point. No they aren't all from the same exact suburb but they are from the same county/area code. Especially at the bantam and younger levels. Most billeting and pulling from "all over the country" doesn't usually start til midgets for the majority for Tier 1 players. Example my son's team is comprised of kids from 5 associations, all within a half hour of eachother and all five associations combined are not as big as Edina's. To me this illustrates why Tier 1 exists in other places like here, we just don't have the numbers. Nationally yes there are some exceptions but not enough to matter at bantam and younger, most "youth ages" are pretty much like my boys team. Midgets again are a different story.
How many tier 1 teams do you have in your state?
Three Tier 1 clubs... we could probably use four legitimately but MN Hockey keeps us from having a fourth in our most natural spot for having a fourth.

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Wisconsin Tier I

Post by O-townClown » Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:08 pm

JSR wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:How many tier 1 teams do you have in your state?
Three Tier 1 clubs... we could probably use four legitimately but MN Hockey keeps us from having a fourth in our most natural spot for having a fourth.
Milwaukee Admirals
Madison Capitals
Green Bay Gamblers
Team Wisconsin

Isn't it 4 if you count the before and after team?
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Post by Oldcoach63 » Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:36 am

Another thing to keep in mind is that economics narrows the pool considerably with many of the Tier 1 programs outside Minnesota. An average community hockey program in Minnesota could have many more kids to pick from for their Bantam AA team due to large participation numbers because it's relatively inexpensive compared to and area like LA, for example. I spoke with some Tier 1 parents at the tourney last season and even though they took kids from a very large geographic area (much larger than any community based program that I can think of in MN), their talent pool was somewhat small because the cost was crazy high compared to community based Minnesota hockey. They were talking $12k - $15k per year before travel expenses and every weekend was an airplane ride or several hour drive for tourneys plus hotels, meals, etc. If I had to fork out $20k - $30k per year per kid for hockey I'm thinking they would've been undersized basketball players. People around here that push so hard for what other states have maybe don't realize how lucky we are to have really competitive hockey right down the road at a relatively reasonable cost. Economics definitely narrows the pool in Minnesota but not at nearly the rate as it does elsewhere.

How many of the NHL players from Minnesota may never have played hockey due to economics if they hadn't had community based hockey? How many great athletes from other places around the country are we missing out seeing on the ice because there's no way to afford it?

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Post by O-townClown » Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:13 pm

Oldcoach63 wrote:How many great athletes from other places around the country are we missing out seeing on the ice because there's no way to afford it?
Extremely good points. As a Sun Belt hockey parent it is start seeing the difference in size between a high-level Youth team from here and what they can crank out in Ontario. They definitely capture more of the big kids.
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