Gentry Galaxy

Discussion of Minnesota Youth Hockey

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jg2112
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Post by jg2112 » Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:40 am

O-townClown wrote:How many paying students are at Gentry Academy now?

"Elk River"
1) About 50
2) If you had any question as to where she lives.....

Lace'emUp
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Post by Lace'emUp » Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:55 pm

SouthernMinnFan wrote:That is why I am asking. I see that they have teams for certain age groups but that would mean Minnesota is opening up Tier 1 hockey to be played out of the affiliate right? If that is the case than be prepared for other Tier 1 programs to open up around the state.
Gentry appears to be no different than what than what BE Revoloution did this past season on the girls side. The Revoloution were grated a temporary one year Tier 1 status by MNH for the 2014-15 season, which enabled them to compete for a chance to play in the USAH Nationals. MNH pulled that status for the 2015-16 season when they finalized their Tier 1 structure to be primarily the MN High School Elite teams. So the Revolotion still advertised themselves as Tier 1 since they were traveling out of state to play other Tier 1 teams as they did the previous season. They're just not eligible to compete for a spot at the USAH Nationals. They (the girls) played last fall in the MN Elite League, and I believe they're doing so this spring also. Anyways, MNH has complete control over "official" Tier 1 status as a relation to competing at Nationals. I highly doubt (as in 99.99% sure) MNH will give Gentry this status.

jg2112
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Post by jg2112 » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:18 am

It looks like they don't have the status, as Lace'emUp said:

http://www.minnesotahockey.org/news_art ... _id=710946

Are there other sanctioned Tier 1 programs in Minnesota?

Shattuck St. Mary’s school is the only other sanctioned Tier 1 program outside of the new Fall Tier 1 program.

Minnesota Hockey does sanction some private, school-based teams under the local association where the school is located allowing players to play with their classmates. These teams are classified as Minnesota Hockey “B” level teams, and are not sanctioned Tier 1 teams.

Will there be Peewee Tier 1 teams?

No, the Tier 1 classification only exists for classifications which USA Hockey conducts National Championships for, Bantam (14U) level and above.

old goalie85
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Post by old goalie85 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:43 am

District 2 coach told kids same thing at HP Mon. night. These are the District "allstar teams that Bo talked about years ago. [ Where was Bo's cystal ball when I was filling out my hoops bracket ?]

InigoMontoya
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Post by InigoMontoya » Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:22 am

How does the HP Tier 1 program work with/against the Elite League?

old goalie85
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Post by old goalie85 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:01 am

or Tony's Bantam Elite league ??

Lace'emUp
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Post by Lace'emUp » Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:36 am

old goalie85 wrote:District 2 coach told kids same thing at HP Mon. night. These are the District "allstar teams that Bo talked about years ago. [ Where was Bo's cystal ball when I was filling out my hoops bracket ?]
I somewhat loosely predicted this a year ago too - see below. Though I included Squirt, U10, PW, and U12 in that grouping. USHA does not have Tier 1 for age groups younger than U14 at this time, so I was a bit off there. But you just wait, I would not be surprised if 5 years from now they have USAH National Tournament for the U12/PW's. Why, it will make a BOAT LOAD of money! That's the driving factor. Look at MNH. A couple years ago, they started HP 14/15 as more of a pilot. It was popular in the metro area and made $$$. So it formed into HP-14's. Same structure as HP-15's that was already in place. Easy decision. HP-13's will be around the corner, just like U12 USAH Nationals.
Lace'emUp wrote: The state of Girls hockey... is it bright?
http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic. ... c&start=25
Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:35 pm
Here's my amendments to your possible solution. Just as MN Hockey has decided to run it's own Tier 1 teams, why not let each District run it's own AAA squirt, PW, bantam, 10U and 12U teams? Open tryouts, with the best 15-18 skaters and 2 goalies making each team. Taking advantage of the existing infrastructure in place (district management), teams can still have access to ice at reasonable costs and times. Plus, there can actually be an organized "league" where district teams play each other. Outstate districts would have issues with travel times for practices and games. But they'd have this issues either way - whether it's run privately or by the district. And again, cost is not an issue with your solution.
And to answer Inigo's question, HP and Tier 1 are completely different programs, though you can participate in both. Teams for Tier 1 under the U14 and U15 age groups will be formed by MNH districts and play a set schedule of games. To be an "official" Tier 1 team, you must stay formed as a "team" and play a certain amount of games to be eligible for USAH Nationals. Similar to association hockey, teams are set, and players cannot be shifted or added at later dates. Teams for the older age group are selected and run by the Elite and Premier Prep leagues. Just as mentioned above, those teams were set last fall, and have not changed. They played a minimum number of games versus other Tier 1 teams (I don't know the exact req on that).

old goalie85
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Post by old goalie85 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:26 am

I think it is great. T1 for all those that wanted it so bad. Still assc. hockey for the rest of us. Looks like Bernie/Blades/Gentry/Northern edge yada yada left out in the Mn cold. :wink:

Lace'emUp
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Post by Lace'emUp » Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:58 am

old goalie85 wrote:I think it is great. T1 for all those that wanted it so bad. Still assc. hockey for the rest of us. Looks like Bernie/Blades/Gentry/Northern edge yada yada left out in the Mn cold. :wink:
5 years from now, that could be the case. For instance, if they do expand HP's and Tier 1 down to U12/PW, here's what a top player could potentially have to deal with:
1. Association season as normal in the fall/winter. You need to be on an association team to be eligible for the "all-star" District Tier 1 team.
2. After the association season ends, HP-12's or 13's runs from the spring into the summer for those who are good enough (just like 14's-17's do now).
3. Once HP's are done, you move onto the tryouts for the Tier 1 District team, and play your fall schedule leading up to the association season.

The above does not affect the low-end, middle of the road, or slightly above average player. They still can just play association hockey as you mentioned, and participate in AAA for a local club in the spring/summer. What it does do is take the top end talent and essentially locks them up entirely in MNH/USHA, and that kills the threat of Tier 1 club hockey in MN.

SCBlueLiner
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Post by SCBlueLiner » Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:17 pm

USAH won't go back to PeeWee Nationals, or I should say I would be shocked if they did. It flies in the face of the LTAD principles they have been preaching with ADM and does not fit into the overall philosophy they have adopted. If they do restart PW Nationals (due to $$$) it would undermine everything they have been saying about the ADM model and people would be suspicious of anything they put out about ADM as a whole including cross-ice at Mites.

It would be bad PR IMO.

Section 8 guy
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Post by Section 8 guy » Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:50 pm

This is about controlling the madness. As pointed out above, the HP 14 concept and the fall HP Tier 1 offering allow the extracurriculars to be governed by Minnesota/USA Hockey. It's a touch of controlling the extra stuff so it doesn't get out of hand with a nice sprinkling of giving the higher end player a version of the additional options that they've been wanting. It's pretty progressive and crafty really.

Not everything is about the money. Silly how so many people go there immediately.

Lace'emUp
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Post by Lace'emUp » Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:15 pm

SCBlueLiner wrote:USAH won't go back to PeeWee Nationals, or I should say I would be shocked if they did. It flies in the face of the LTAD principles they have been preaching with ADM and does not fit into the overall philosophy they have adopted. If they do restart PW Nationals (due to $$$) it would undermine everything they have been saying about the ADM model and people would be suspicious of anything they put out about ADM as a whole including cross-ice at Mites.

It would be bad PR IMO.
As noted, I don't think this would happen for several years. But in my opinion, it doesn't really have anything to do with the ADM. MNH's ADM documents on their ADM page state that U12/PW should have 90-110 total ice sessions. 40-45 of those sessions are to be games. USAH is slightly less on the game side, more on practice time. They state 80-90 practices with 30-35 games. Point being, if MNH believed the ADM was a hard core issue, they wouldn't let OMG PWAA play 60 games this year, or Andover's U12 team play 57 (both won state).

MNH's U14 ADM model states games should be limited to 40-50. If they have a 12-15 game schedule this fall for U14 Tier 1, then the top Bantam teams play 50-ish games, this puts a lot of kids way over the ADM limit. MNH Tier 1 playoffs and USAH Nationals add in several more games. Some U14 kids will be up to 70 games. So it's ok for MNH to ignore game limits at Bantam/U14. Why not at U12/PW - it's already been happening, and will continue to happen.

This doesn't count the 20-ish AAA tournament games the kids play in the summer.

Lace'emUp
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Post by Lace'emUp » Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:37 pm

Section 8 guy wrote:This is about controlling the madness. As pointed out above, the HP 14 concept and the fall HP Tier 1 offering allow the extracurriculars to be governed by Minnesota/USA Hockey. It's a touch of controlling the extra stuff so it doesn't get out of hand with a nice sprinkling of giving the higher end player a version of the additional options that they've been wanting. It's pretty progressive and crafty really.

Not everything is about the money. Silly how so many people go there immediately.
I agree, it's progressive and crafty at the same time. MNH has had this golden nugget in their back pocket for years, and has done nothing with it - except preventing others from having it. But I do believe there's a thought that some money can be made by expanding this to the younger players. Some of the money that was going in to AAA pockets is now being diverted into MNH's coffers.

old goalie85
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Post by old goalie85 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:10 am

These teams will be the real AAA teams many have been calling for since the days of the Fire. This should give the kid from Pine city or Worthingtion or Blackduck the chance to play vs kids from Edina/EP/Tonka. Seems like a win-win to me. Great Job Mn hockey !!! North Dakota has a before and after team playing U14 nationals coming up. Be interesting to watch how that team competes.

yesiplayedhockey
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Post by yesiplayedhockey » Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:18 am

So I'm a little confused..Galaxy is a competitive product to association based hockey correct? So instead of a kid playing Bantams for his city, he enrolls in the school then can play for Galaxy during the school year. They won't play against other Bantam A/AA teams yet instead play out of state or host out of state teams to come here and play them.

Then do these kids then play AAA in the spring and fall or will Galaxy still be going strong?

Lace'emUp
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Post by Lace'emUp » Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:59 am

yesiplayedhockey wrote:So I'm a little confused..Galaxy is a competitive product to association based hockey correct? So instead of a kid playing Bantams for his city, he enrolls in the school then can play for Galaxy during the school year. They won't play against other Bantam A/AA teams yet instead play out of state or host out of state teams to come here and play them.

Then do these kids then play AAA in the spring and fall or will Galaxy still be going strong?
Per Gentry's website, it does not appear kids are held to any team requirements in the summer time, so I would believe they can play AAA like anyone else. I believe their program description sums it up best:

"Gentry Academy is excited to offer winter teams to our students, offering a school-based team alternative to association hockey. Our teams are named Gentry Galaxy and are organized by birth year. Our teams are Minnesota/USA Hockey sanctioned teams and provide the opportunity to travel throughout North America to compete with other USA Hockey sanctioned teams.

Our tryout process will be in early-August to ensure those players not selected for our teams can still elect to play association hockey. Our season will be September through the end of March. Our school-based teams will be registered under an agreement with Mounds View Association classified as Minnesota Hockey “B” teams, and competition with Minnesota association teams will be limited to that classification. Our teams are NOT mandatory..."


And in their Q&A it states:
Does Gentry Academy have a team?
Yes. Our teams play under the Gentry Galaxy name and will be organized by birth year. Our teams are not mandatory and will practice in the evening, leaving the day for individual development. Our teams are Minnesota/USA Hockey sanctioned teams providing the opportunity to travel throughout North America to compete with other USA Hockey sanctioned teams.


So if you decide to go to Gentry, you have 3 options.
1. Go to school there and practice there, but do not play team hockey anyhere.
2. Go to school, practice, and if you succeed at their tryouts, play for their santinoed 'B' team. Most likely no games vs USAH/MNH registered teams (since they can only play B-level). The team will be traveling out of state, or teams will come here.
3. Go to school and practice, but decline the Gentry team option so you can play regular association hockey. In that situation, you can play for your association of residence at the AA level, or play for your association of school affiliation, which would be Mounds View (if I understand the rules correctly). With MNH's revised participation rules, if you decide to play for your association of school affiliation, you cannot play at the top level for your first year.

In all, as long as kids have a USAH registration number, they should be able to tryout for HP's and Tier 1. For the HP/U14 and HP/U15 levels, Gentry would have to get invites from D2. I don't know how that exactly takes place. One thing they need to be careful with is Gentry's tryout date. I do not believe Gentry cannot roster kids who make a Tier 1 team - cannot be on 2 teams at once. Once the Tier 1 season is over, Gentry can the roster kids in October like any other association.

yesiplayedhockey
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Post by yesiplayedhockey » Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:02 pm

i don't get it.. so kids, I mean parents...are actually saying no to Bantam association hockey? First Bernie claiming he has the golden ticket if kids, I mean parents, forgo squirt and pee wee association hockey to play over at made and now this? So sad.

Okay I am standing on the tallest building in Minneapolis and shouting this...

"KIDS....I MEAN PARENTS... Minnesota association based hockey works. Is it perfect, of course not.. but trust me, your kid will be fine. If he's half as good as you think he is, the scouts will find him"

greybeard58
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Post by greybeard58 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:43 pm

The idea of a HP 14 program for the youth was brought up over 11 years ago to Mn Hockey as there used to be a 14/15 advanced program for the girls which then changed when the HP program was changed to follow the youth.

Second the idea of District wide 15U teams was brought before the Mn Hockey board by a District Director about 6-7 years ago and was shot down.

jpiehl
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Post by jpiehl » Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:49 am

yesiplayedhockey wrote:
"KIDS....I MEAN PARENTS... Minnesota association based hockey works. Is it perfect, of course not.. but trust me, your kid will be fine. If he's half as good as you think he is, the scouts will find him"
And we are back to this. Yes, the scouts will find him, if he is playing where they are looking. But there are many kids that don't play where the scouts are looking, and may have sub-par linemates, so their stats don't jump out even though they are very good players. Will they ever get found without putting themselves in a position where scouts are looking?

Jeffy95
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Post by Jeffy95 » Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:14 pm

jpiehl wrote:
yesiplayedhockey wrote:
"KIDS....I MEAN PARENTS... Minnesota association based hockey works. Is it perfect, of course not.. but trust me, your kid will be fine. If he's half as good as you think he is, the scouts will find him"
And we are back to this. Yes, the scouts will find him, if he is playing where they are looking. But there are many kids that don't play where the scouts are looking, and may have sub-par linemates, so their stats don't jump out even though they are very good players. Will they ever get found without putting themselves in a position where scouts are looking?
Of course they will. This is not 1975. We live in the information age. It doesn't matter where you play, they will find you. We all know who the best SQUIRT players are in today's world. Heck, they don't even have to FIND you. You can introduce yourself to them with as many youtube videos from yourself and your coaches as you want. Jaxon Nelson played in the corn fields of SW Minnesota. Did they find him?

SouthernMinnFan
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Post by SouthernMinnFan » Sat Apr 02, 2016 3:01 am

Yep. As long as you are twice the size of everyone else your age your whole life and one of the top players for your age in the country they will find you. When they find you they will tell you to leave and go play better hockey because you are falling behind just like they did to Nelson this year. It's why Shattuck continues to be so successful. They can offer that better hockey.

JSR
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Post by JSR » Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:40 am

old goalie85 wrote:These teams will be the real AAA teams many have been calling for since the days of the Fire. This should give the kid from Pine city or Worthingtion or Blackduck the chance to play vs kids from Edina/EP/Tonka. Seems like a win-win to me. Great Job Mn hockey !!! North Dakota has a before and after team playing U14 nationals coming up. Be interesting to watch how that team competes.
Won one game, lost two games. Finished third in their pool. Did not advance out of pool play

JSR
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Post by JSR » Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:43 am

Lace'emUp wrote:
old goalie85 wrote:District 2 coach told kids same thing at HP Mon. night. These are the District "allstar teams that Bo talked about years ago. [ Where was Bo's cystal ball when I was filling out my hoops bracket ?]
I somewhat loosely predicted this a year ago too - see below. Though I included Squirt, U10, PW, and U12 in that grouping. USHA does not have Tier 1 for age groups younger than U14 at this time, so I was a bit off there. But you just wait, I would not be surprised if 5 years from now they have USAH National Tournament for the U12/PW's. Why, it will make a BOAT LOAD of money! That's the driving factor. Look at MNH. A couple years ago, they started HP 14/15 as more of a pilot. It was popular in the metro area and made $$$. So it formed into HP-14's. Same structure as HP-15's that was already in place. Easy decision. HP-13's will be around the corner, just like U12 USAH Nationals.
Lace'emUp wrote: The state of Girls hockey... is it bright?
http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic. ... c&start=25
Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:35 pm
Here's my amendments to your possible solution. Just as MN Hockey has decided to run it's own Tier 1 teams, why not let each District run it's own AAA squirt, PW, bantam, 10U and 12U teams? Open tryouts, with the best 15-18 skaters and 2 goalies making each team. Taking advantage of the existing infrastructure in place (district management), teams can still have access to ice at reasonable costs and times. Plus, there can actually be an organized "league" where district teams play each other. Outstate districts would have issues with travel times for practices and games. But they'd have this issues either way - whether it's run privately or by the district. And again, cost is not an issue with your solution.
And to answer Inigo's question, HP and Tier 1 are completely different programs, though you can participate in both. Teams for Tier 1 under the U14 and U15 age groups will be formed by MNH districts and play a set schedule of games. To be an "official" Tier 1 team, you must stay formed as a "team" and play a certain amount of games to be eligible for USAH Nationals. Similar to association hockey, teams are set, and players cannot be shifted or added at later dates. Teams for the older age group are selected and run by the Elite and Premier Prep leagues. Just as mentioned above, those teams were set last fall, and have not changed. They played a minimum number of games versus other Tier 1 teams (I don't know the exact req on that).
Actually USAH had a Tier 1 national championship tournament for PW's for years. They only recently got rid of them about three years ago and cited that the tournament was a distraction from "developing" youth hockey players and was fostering a win at all costs attitude at too young of an age... Of course that just meant that other folks are trying to create unofficial national championship tournaments to fill the void for those dollars you talked about.

Lace'emUp
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Post by Lace'emUp » Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:53 am

JSR wrote:
Lace'emUp wrote:
old goalie85 wrote:District 2 coach told kids same thing at HP Mon. night. These are the District "allstar teams that Bo talked about years ago. [ Where was Bo's cystal ball when I was filling out my hoops bracket ?]
I somewhat loosely predicted this a year ago too - see below. Though I included Squirt, U10, PW, and U12 in that grouping. USHA does not have Tier 1 for age groups younger than U14 at this time, so I was a bit off there. But you just wait, I would not be surprised if 5 years from now they have USAH National Tournament for the U12/PW's. Why, it will make a BOAT LOAD of money! That's the driving factor. Look at MNH. A couple years ago, they started HP 14/15 as more of a pilot. It was popular in the metro area and made $$$. So it formed into HP-14's. Same structure as HP-15's that was already in place. Easy decision. HP-13's will be around the corner, just like U12 USAH Nationals.
Lace'emUp wrote: The state of Girls hockey... is it bright?
http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic. ... c&start=25
Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:35 pm
Here's my amendments to your possible solution. Just as MN Hockey has decided to run it's own Tier 1 teams, why not let each District run it's own AAA squirt, PW, bantam, 10U and 12U teams? Open tryouts, with the best 15-18 skaters and 2 goalies making each team. Taking advantage of the existing infrastructure in place (district management), teams can still have access to ice at reasonable costs and times. Plus, there can actually be an organized "league" where district teams play each other. Outstate districts would have issues with travel times for practices and games. But they'd have this issues either way - whether it's run privately or by the district. And again, cost is not an issue with your solution.
And to answer Inigo's question, HP and Tier 1 are completely different programs, though you can participate in both. Teams for Tier 1 under the U14 and U15 age groups will be formed by MNH districts and play a set schedule of games. To be an "official" Tier 1 team, you must stay formed as a "team" and play a certain amount of games to be eligible for USAH Nationals. Similar to association hockey, teams are set, and players cannot be shifted or added at later dates. Teams for the older age group are selected and run by the Elite and Premier Prep leagues. Just as mentioned above, those teams were set last fall, and have not changed. They played a minimum number of games versus other Tier 1 teams (I don't know the exact req on that).
Actually USAH had a Tier 1 national championship tournament for PW's for years. They only recently got rid of them about three years ago and cited that the tournament was a distraction from "developing" youth hockey players and was fostering a win at all costs attitude at too young of an age... Of course that just meant that other folks are trying to create unofficial national championship tournaments to fill the void for those dollars you talked about.
You are correct. I've seen a PW club team deem themselves as "National Champions" on their team webpage. I cannot remember the team, or if it was for this year or last, but someone has filled their void without the need for USAH to conduct the tournament. It's just my guess that USAH will bring it back in the future. USA Lacrosse has a U13 championship, as does USA Youth Soccer. USA Basketball does not, but AAU goes all the way down to the 3rd grade!

O-townClown
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Post by O-townClown » Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:52 pm

Jeffy95 wrote: Jaxon Nelson played in the corn fields of SW Minnesota. Did they find him?
He went to the Brick with a Twin City based all-star team when he was 10. Your example seems to demonstrate the importance of getting into the environment where you can be noticed. Also, he played Varsity for a high school that reached the state tournament. Plus, Jaxon Nelson is a player that has a much higher ceiling than most kids. He's got an offer to play for the University of Minnesota.

What about the scores of kids that are capable of playing NCAA Division I hockey? If you play for a school with a dearth of other committed and talented players it is tough.

I'm a Sun Belt hockey parent. I hear about how so-and-so got to Nationals and got noticed or follow Minnesota where Duluth East or Lakeville wins and people say, "Look! Those kids didn't miss any opportunities! You can stay in HS and still play NCAA!" Yes, those kids didn't. What about the players just as good whose team flamed out in Section semis?

My feeling has always been that if you are playing on a Top 15 hs program you have a strong enough schedule and good enough teammates to consider staying in HS a viable option that won't risk holding a player back. What if the kid in question is from Crookston or Austin or North St. Paul?

If a parent leaves their kid on a mediocre team that has no chance to make it to Nationals? Yeah, let me know how that goes.
Be kind. Rewind.

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