Associations feeding multiple high schools

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zooomx
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Associations feeding multiple high schools

Post by zooomx » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:28 am

So, in towns like Rochester and St Cloud, I am curious if splitting a large association into 2 associations has ever been discussed. I am thinking from a pure development discussion. If you are trying to feed 3-4 high schools, wouldn't it make sense to have 2 associations feed them?

From a social perspective, is it weird having kids all play together, then split up onto crosstown rival teams?

From a recruitment perspective, would there be more skaters in the one association model, or two?

SCBlueLiner
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Post by SCBlueLiner » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:20 am

It would make it harder to make youth teams that could compete at the AA or maybe even A level. Not exposing the top players in your association to the top level of play in the state would have negative, long term, cumulative effects.

That said, it would force the individual school communities to take ownership in growing their feeder youth organization.

The topic kind of goes back to your individual thoughts on the purpose of youth hockey. Some places clearly see it as the feeder for the high school team and the goal of the kids from the time they step on the ice as min-mites is to wear that HS sweater and play for a state title and the development they receive is to someday achieve that goal. Other places, it is an activity and youth and high school are separate.

zooomx
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Post by zooomx » Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:33 pm

SCBlueLiner wrote:It would make it harder to make youth teams that could compete at the AA or maybe even A level. Not exposing the top players in your association to the top level of play in the state would have negative, long term, cumulative effects.

That said, it would force the individual school communities to take ownership in growing their feeder youth organization.

The topic kind of goes back to your individual thoughts on the purpose of youth hockey. Some places clearly see it as the feeder for the high school team and the goal of the kids from the time they step on the ice as min-mites is to wear that HS sweater and play for a state title and the development they receive is to someday achieve that goal. Other places, it is an activity and youth and high school are separate.
Mostly, this is just a curious, mental exercise. I wonder if 2 separate associations in each town would force more aggressive recruitment with the idea that 2 teams of AA players might feed higher quality players to the high school programs. Grant it, it would be a painful few years to grow each organization.

My own thoughts on the youth program's purpose is that it is a bit of both. Giving as many youth players as possible the opportunity to enjoy this great game, but also feed the high school program as many quality athletes as possible.

Section 8 guy
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Post by Section 8 guy » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:36 pm

It seems like this issue is often viewed differently in out state associations than in metro associations.

Out staters tend to view it more as a direct feeder program..... Which probably makes sense because usually there isn't another town, association or school district for miles, so there a clean separation from other towns, associations or school districts. All 3 are in the same silo for a visual. So it is a direct feeder program. Limited options right?

In the metro where lines for associations, towns and school districts overlap and it's much less clear......people tend to view them separately, which also kind of makes sense since people from the same associations often go in different directions for school.

SCBlueLiner
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Post by SCBlueLiner » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:51 am

zooomx wrote:
SCBlueLiner wrote:It would make it harder to make youth teams that could compete at the AA or maybe even A level. Not exposing the top players in your association to the top level of play in the state would have negative, long term, cumulative effects.

That said, it would force the individual school communities to take ownership in growing their feeder youth organization.

The topic kind of goes back to your individual thoughts on the purpose of youth hockey. Some places clearly see it as the feeder for the high school team and the goal of the kids from the time they step on the ice as min-mites is to wear that HS sweater and play for a state title and the development they receive is to someday achieve that goal. Other places, it is an activity and youth and high school are separate.
Mostly, this is just a curious, mental exercise. I wonder if 2 separate associations in each town would force more aggressive recruitment with the idea that 2 teams of AA players might feed higher quality players to the high school programs. Grant it, it would be a painful few years to grow each organization.

My own thoughts on the youth program's purpose is that it is a bit of both. Giving as many youth players as possible the opportunity to enjoy this great game, but also feed the high school program as many quality athletes as possible.
I don't think this applies to St. Cloud since there is only one public HS program now, though if they ever wanted to go back to two this discussion is applicable. The cities this immediately comes to mind outside the metro are Duluth and Rochester where there is one association feeding multiple high schools. But in Duluth the youth teams do separate out as East and Denfeld under the DAHA umbrella. In Rochester, RYHA doesn't separate their teams out by school, at least they don't on their team names/jerseys, maybe they split out the rosters that way, I have no idea.

So really, outside of the metro, we are talking about two cities, and to narrow it down even more we are talking about the Rochester high schools and Denfeld since East is doing just fine.

zooomx
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Post by zooomx » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:34 am

SCBlueLiner wrote:
zooomx wrote:
SCBlueLiner wrote:It would make it harder to make youth teams that could compete at the AA or maybe even A level. Not exposing the top players in your association to the top level of play in the state would have negative, long term, cumulative effects.

That said, it would force the individual school communities to take ownership in growing their feeder youth organization.

The topic kind of goes back to your individual thoughts on the purpose of youth hockey. Some places clearly see it as the feeder for the high school team and the goal of the kids from the time they step on the ice as min-mites is to wear that HS sweater and play for a state title and the development they receive is to someday achieve that goal. Other places, it is an activity and youth and high school are separate.
Mostly, this is just a curious, mental exercise. I wonder if 2 separate associations in each town would force more aggressive recruitment with the idea that 2 teams of AA players might feed higher quality players to the high school programs. Grant it, it would be a painful few years to grow each organization.

My own thoughts on the youth program's purpose is that it is a bit of both. Giving as many youth players as possible the opportunity to enjoy this great game, but also feed the high school program as many quality athletes as possible.
I don't think this applies to St. Cloud since there is only one public HS program now, though if they ever wanted to go back to two this discussion is applicable. The cities this immediately comes to mind outside the metro are Duluth and Rochester where there is one association feeding multiple high schools. But in Duluth the youth teams do separate out as East and Denfeld under the DAHA umbrella. In Rochester, RYHA doesn't separate their teams out by school, at least they don't on their team names/jerseys, maybe they split out the rosters that way, I have no idea.

So really, outside of the metro, we are talking about two cities, and to narrow it down even more we are talking about the Rochester high schools and Denfeld since East is doing just fine.
Good points. Do you think the one public high school team is a case of shifting demographics in St. Cloud, or is it something else? I lived in St. Cloud for 14 years, and moved out shortly before my kids got on skates. With the rise of SCSU hockey, it has become more of a hockey town than it was when I first got there in the 80's. Apollo had a great run, but was it demographics that forced the merge?

SCBlueLiner
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Post by SCBlueLiner » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:08 am

It's all about the numbers in your youth organization. I don't think they have the numbers to support 3 HS teams. Let's hope that changes. Hosting Hockey Day won't hurt them any, hopefully it helps in recruiting.

Thinking about this, I mentioned Duluth, Rochester, and St. Cloud in this conversation but completely forgot about Mankato. Sorry about that.

goldy313
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Post by goldy313 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:32 am

Is there any overlap with Eagan/Mendota Heights/West St. Paul Sibley?
Or
Rosemount/Apple Valley/Eastview?

Those are school districts with boundaries that include other communities.

I have a nephew who lives in Eagan but is in the WSP school district 197

Fwiw splitting RYHA has been a discussion for 50 years, RYHA has decided Peewee B2 state tournaments are better for them than high school success. One could argue the bumps from the 1977 John Marshall championship team benefited the 1989 John Marshall runner up and 1998 JM team benefitted the 2007 Century 3rd place team. RYHA would deem that all coincidence.

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