13U or 12U for girls progam

Discussion of Minnesota Youth Hockey

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12U or 13U

12U
3
75%
13U
1
25%
 
Total votes: 4

elliott70
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Location: Bemidji

13U or 12U for girls progam

Post by elliott70 » Fri Apr 01, 2022 8:10 am

Which would better serve MN Hockey?

InThePipes
Posts: 1006
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:26 pm

Re: 13U or 12U for girls progam

Post by InThePipes » Fri Apr 01, 2022 8:26 pm

It's not exactly that simple, the current proposal is it's either 12U/15U or 13U and then the 15U leagues are gone.

The reality is like almost everything in the world today it's binary. If you're a mid/large metro district you want to keep 12U, because you already have a viable 15U program and why would you want to kill that, it would make no sense to do so. On the flip side, if you are an outstate program like Warroad or a small metro association with no 15U program, why not have a 13U program, it would make complete sense to those associations to give girls an extra year of youth hockey before HS.

I will be curious to see how this turns out because I suspect they will pilot 13U next year for associations that want to opt in. To date this change has largely being championed as a way to save 8th graders from needing to join the HS ranks...my question is, how many of those 8th graders actually WANT to be saved from needing to join the HS ranks. We'll find out shortly.

elliott70
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:47 pm
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Re: 13U or 12U for girls progam

Post by elliott70 » Sat Apr 02, 2022 7:32 am

InThePipes wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 8:26 pm
It's not exactly that simple, the current proposal is it's either 12U/15U or 13U and then the 15U leagues are gone.

The reality is like almost everything in the world today it's binary. If you're a mid/large metro district you want to keep 12U, because you already have a viable 15U program and why would you want to kill that, it would make no sense to do so. On the flip side, if you are an outstate program like Warroad or a small metro association with no 15U program, why not have a 13U program, it would make complete sense to those associations to give girls an extra year of youth hockey before HS.

I will be curious to see how this turns out because I suspect they will pilot 13U next year for associations that want to opt in. To date this change has largely being championed as a way to save 8th graders from needing to join the HS ranks...my question is, how many of those 8th graders actually WANT to be saved from needing to join the HS ranks. We'll find out shortly.
There is no current proposal. Only discussion.
In 3 weeks the discussion will continue.
The original proposal brought to the district directors was NOT to change 15U.
It was to possibly change 13U to 12U. OR to look at what options might be available within the current structure.

I am not sure how the 'finding out shortly how many 13U want to go to varsity' will happen.

The initial idea was to maintain and solve. The problem solving was delivered t the wrong people in my opinion. It has resulted in a division, some of us are trying to alleviate that and return it to the intended discussion.

InThePipes
Posts: 1006
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:26 pm

Re: 13U or 12U for girls progam

Post by InThePipes » Sat Apr 02, 2022 9:37 am

elliott70 wrote:
Sat Apr 02, 2022 7:32 am
InThePipes wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 8:26 pm
It's not exactly that simple, the current proposal is it's either 12U/15U or 13U and then the 15U leagues are gone.

The reality is like almost everything in the world today it's binary. If you're a mid/large metro district you want to keep 12U, because you already have a viable 15U program and why would you want to kill that, it would make no sense to do so. On the flip side, if you are an outstate program like Warroad or a small metro association with no 15U program, why not have a 13U program, it would make complete sense to those associations to give girls an extra year of youth hockey before HS.

I will be curious to see how this turns out because I suspect they will pilot 13U next year for associations that want to opt in. To date this change has largely being championed as a way to save 8th graders from needing to join the HS ranks...my question is, how many of those 8th graders actually WANT to be saved from needing to join the HS ranks. We'll find out shortly.
There is no current proposal. Only discussion.
In 3 weeks the discussion will continue.
The original proposal brought to the district directors was NOT to change 15U.
It was to possibly change 13U to 12U. OR to look at what options might be available within the current structure.

I am not sure how the 'finding out shortly how many 13U want to go to varsity' will happen.

The initial idea was to maintain and solve. The problem solving was delivered t the wrong people in my opinion. It has resulted in a division, some of us are trying to alleviate that and return it to the intended discussion.
Well then someone must have gotten their wires crossed somewhere, because we were told that the proposal (or discussion) was that if the move to 13U were made, the 15U would eliminated and an 18U (or 19U) league would be the next level, so the levels would be 10U, 13U and 18U (or 19U).

Let's reframe this then, what problem is MN Hockey trying to solve?

elliott70
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Re: 13U or 12U for girls progam

Post by elliott70 » Sat Apr 02, 2022 11:17 am

That idea has been thrown out there (no 15U).
But no proposal is on the table for the April meeting.

At this time, it would take special circumstances to have any proposal voted on that would be reflected in the coming season.

The problem is that in some areas (associations) of the state, thirteen year-old girls have but one option (JV) (or quit - play something else).
Their parents and local associations wanted MH to consider a different approach.

elliott70
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:47 pm
Location: Bemidji

Re: 13U or 12U for girls progam

Post by elliott70 » Sat Apr 02, 2022 11:20 am

"Well then someone must have gotten their wires crossed somewhere, because we were told that the proposal (or discussion) was that if the move to 13U were made, the 15U would eliminated and an 18U (or 19U) league would be the next level..."

So perhaps someone is using this possible option to frighten people.
Or some other agenda...

Why Hockey Ops came up with this idea is crazy.

It was not part of the original request and should be a separate discussion.

InThePipes
Posts: 1006
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:26 pm

Re: 13U or 12U for girls progam

Post by InThePipes » Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:11 am

elliott70 wrote:
Sat Apr 02, 2022 11:20 am
"Well then someone must have gotten their wires crossed somewhere, because we were told that the proposal (or discussion) was that if the move to 13U were made, the 15U would eliminated and an 18U (or 19U) league would be the next level..."

So perhaps someone is using this possible option to frighten people.
Or some other agenda...

Why Hockey Ops came up with this idea is crazy.

It was not part of the original request and should be a separate discussion.
I don't know what the agenda was, if any, just telling you what was communicated directly to the associations by people at both District and MN Hockey positions.

All I can say is if 13U is the path forward in MN, it does become much more difficult to form 15U teams/leagues as approximately 50% of the skaters currently at 15U are 8th graders (13U), so you'd effectively pull half your player pool from 15U. Therefore, with the exception of the largest associations in the state, it would likely be challenging to form 15U teams.

elliott70
Posts: 15425
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:47 pm
Location: Bemidji

Re: 13U or 12U for girls progam

Post by elliott70 » Mon Apr 04, 2022 2:27 pm

InThePipes wrote:
Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:11 am
elliott70 wrote:
Sat Apr 02, 2022 11:20 am
"Well then someone must have gotten their wires crossed somewhere, because we were told that the proposal (or discussion) was that if the move to 13U were made, the 15U would eliminated and an 18U (or 19U) league would be the next level..."

So perhaps someone is using this possible option to frighten people.
Or some other agenda...

Why Hockey Ops came up with this idea is crazy.

It was not part of the original request and should be a separate discussion.
I don't know what the agenda was, if any, just telling you what was communicated directly to the associations by people at both District and MN Hockey positions.

All I can say is if 13U is the path forward in MN, it does become much more difficult to form 15U teams/leagues as approximately 50% of the skaters currently at 15U are 8th graders (13U), so you'd effectively pull half your player pool from 15U. Therefore, with the exception of the largest associations in the state, it would likely be challenging to form 15U teams.
Yes, I know.
That is why the ideas needed to resolve both issues are needed.
What are those ideas...
Well, I had hoped that the committees looking at this would come with some viable answers.
18U and 13U is not a good answer, at least that is my thought and what I am hearing.
And since the committee has not come up with options that is why it will not happen this coming year.

InThePipes
Posts: 1006
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:26 pm

Re: 13U or 12U for girls progam

Post by InThePipes » Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:04 pm

Can we revisit the problem statement, which I understand to be written below, but please add to it if necessary:

The problem is that in some areas (associations) of the state, thirteen year-old girls have but one option (JV) (or quit - play something else).
Their parents and local associations wanted MH to consider a different approach.


Do we know the number of 8th grade girls this impacts statewide, have we collected the data on how many quit because there is no youth hockey option available to them past U12? As a follow-up to that, how many players are playing JV, but would prefer to play youth hockey?

elliott70
Posts: 15425
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:47 pm
Location: Bemidji

Re: 13U or 12U for girls progam

Post by elliott70 » Tue Apr 05, 2022 7:39 am

InThePipes wrote:
Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:04 pm
Can we revisit the problem statement, which I understand to be written below, but please add to it if necessary:

The problem is that in some areas (associations) of the state, thirteen year-old girls have but one option (JV) (or quit - play something else).
Their parents and local associations wanted MH to consider a different approach.


Do we know the number of 8th grade girls this impacts statewide,
YES the numbers have been gathered but not readily at hand for me at this moment.

have we collected the data on how many quit because there is no youth hockey option available to them past U12?
No, it is anecdotal.

As a follow-up to that, how many players are playing JV, but would prefer to play youth hockey?
sme

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