Private School Waivers

Discussion of Minnesota Youth Hockey

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SWPrez
Posts: 370
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:48 am

Private School Waivers

Post by SWPrez » Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:43 am

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Last edited by SWPrez on Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

buddah
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Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:48 pm

Relax

Post by buddah » Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:41 am

It has clearly been established by Minnesota Hockey that these teams will not be able to have "A" level teams. Blake petitioned all the way to USA hockey last year and lost. Your argument of the "top" players moving into "feeder" programs is absurd and as a president of an association you know it. In addition, most of these schools do not have their own rinks and could never get the ice-time to support a "Shattuck" model. As a president and a "leader" of your association, you should spend more time off the computer and more time getting out in your community recruiting kids in to your program. If these kids dont go to school with your association kids, what difference does it make? Stop being so short-sighted on this issue. Having additional B1 bantam teams or Pee-Wee Teams out there is wonderful and creates additional opportunities for many kids. Come on..this debate is not worth the time. Stop stirring it up.
Last edited by buddah on Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

ru4real
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Post by ru4real » Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:48 am

I don't think many top players from big programs are going to leave A to play B1. If they do then there will be someone to take their place. The more kids that leave for private schools means more opportunity for my kids.

packerboy
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Post by packerboy » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:10 am

Private schools should not have their own Bantam programs. Its bad for youth hockey.

Most private school coaches know this so I doubt we will see a proliferation.

Schools should run their high school programs and youth associations should run youth hockey.

TyrellFashizo
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Post by TyrellFashizo » Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:03 pm

Easy answer,
provide a program that fills the needs. If your kids are walking, there must be a reason. Why do parents send a kid to a private school to begin with? They don't trust the public system to properly school. Does that mean public schools aren't safe or able to educate? NO - but if the grass is greener... you know the rest.

elliott70
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Post by elliott70 » Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:46 pm

If you do not want players to move out of your program then do not sign waivers.
Or establish your poicy in which you will sign waivers and stick to it.
A district director cannot re-write your waiver policy. If you have a policy and are consistent with its use, the director on investigation will have to show why he is over-ruling it.

But like others have said, if kids are leaving one program for another find out why and make changes if possible to provide for their needs (again if possible).

SLP/SW Coach
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Post by SLP/SW Coach » Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:05 pm

I think one of the main reasons that youth players will go to play in a "private" school Bantam teams is:
They want to play with their friends and classmates.

They also will be trying out for the HS squad there within 1 to 2 seasons and the trickle down effect from a HS coach at a top notch private school (or public school for that matter) can be very strong.

In many cases these private schools can not offer the same products as the local associations can offer. IE: Bantam A level hockey. At this point private schools are forced to play Bantam B level. I would say that the very top level players with stay with their local Associations, but the bubble A level kids and the B level kids may go on to play for their private schools Bantam program. This may take some depth from the smaller metro Associations and "force" them to have mid tier B level players (even by their small association standards) playing A level hockey. IE: Not at the proper skill level for that player.

I really see both sides to this situation.
#1. Kids should be playing for their Local Teams - not waiving out for any reason.
#2 Kids should be allowed to play for their school and with their classmates.

Players that are Bantam age are not going to a private school for the hockey (or any other sports for that matter). They are there first and foremost for the educational (and sometimes religious) aspect that those schools offer. However once you get to the HS level, that becomes debatable by many people. I don't think we want the trickle down effect to continue all throughout youth hockey that we see in HS Hockey and the "Private Vs Public" debates that you see on the HS forums here.

With all the above being said, I do not know what the right/correct answer is to this situation. These are just some of my OPINIONS on this subject.

pucker52
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Post by pucker52 » Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:34 pm

Basically, at the college prep schools you will have lost them anyway as the schools have such low numbers of players for the most part that JV replaces Bantam A. The religious schools are clearly a different deal. They have large numbers and cut large numbers of players each year.

To whoever commented that they don't have their own ice arenas--quite a few of the prep schools do have their own arenas and some are very nice. The associations also buy quite a bit of ice time at the schools' rinks.
Shuck the puck!!!

packerboy
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Post by packerboy » Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:19 pm

The idea that this is justified because kids should be allowed to play with their classmates kind of limps.

The private schools dont have mites, squirts and peewees so that they can play with their classmates. Neither do public schools. Why when they reach Bantams is it so important to play with their classmates? Why all of a suudden is a school given a youth hockey program but only Bantams?

I dont know what MN Hockey is thinking on this issue. Somebody went to sleep.

If the schools are 'granted' Bantam programs why do the kids need to have waivers? Isnt the school now a program and its students are all eligible for it.

Interesting question: Could kids from other schools get waived in to a private school progarm o they could field a team if needed?

What a clusterbleep. Get rid of Bantam programs for private schools.

Ontheice
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Post by Ontheice » Wed Nov 21, 2007 2:26 pm

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Last edited by Ontheice on Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

elliott70
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Location: Bemidji

Post by elliott70 » Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:57 pm

There is currently a moratorium on private school's being granted an affiliate agreement from MN Hockey.

It is unlikely that there will be any new privates starting for at least two years - 2010.

skateguymn
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Post by skateguymn » Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:55 pm

Seriously, who cares if the private school bantam team is called A or B or C? In reality they will recruit the best players into their program to begin teaching their system. With the promise of achieving Hockey success, parents will send kids to these schools with the hope of being in the state tourney. Bantam hockey at private school is just the beginning of additional advantages to come.
Think about it, if Hill Murray B bantam team plays Benilde's b bantam team, who really cares what letter they carry. They will recruit top notch talent, have very competitive games against each other and crush in B Bantam tourneys. In the end the association, no matter how great the system is, will pay. Elliot I respect alot of what you say but in this case your immediate reaction to challenge SW to build a better program is an easy out.
It appears to me SW Pres is looking for suggestions. Small associations struggle year in and year out. There are many reasons they struggle, primarily it all comes down to finances. The game costs more today than yesterday and will cost more next year. The biggest cause of controversy each year in our association involves high school tryouts and the resulting bantam move up policy.
THis year we lost 4 players from an already weaker bantam team. 3 to private schools and one to public. We now have what amounts to be a B team registered at the A level.
I do agree with you that SW Pres should with hold waivers. Our association rarely considers waivers because we do not want to set a precedence. One waiver can open the doors to many more. One thought would be to set a date at which all public school waivers must be submitted. Along with that policy mandate that submission of a waiver mandates the following:
A. said family relinquishes the right to ever attempt to play for your association again.
B. Said family will not be allowed come back to the association at the same level.
Either of these policies would probably keep 1st year kids around as well as make them think again if their kid is a bubble player.
Just a thought.

The argument of what letter these teams carry is absolutely ridiculous. B private school bantam hockey will be very good hockey regardless of the letter

jancze5
Posts: 421
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:11 pm

who cares%

Post by jancze5 » Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:42 pm

Who really honestly cares where these or any kids play?

The reality is that 99.7 % of every one of these kids are going to spend from age 5-ish to age 18 in preparation for the mens league with the rest of us...

So to get so hyped up with all this repetitive stuff is pointless..enjoy the game. If a kid wants to go, let him go and root for him. If a B player is playing A..so what, improve if you can kid....

Hill Murray having a Bantam team would only benefit the entire Stillwater, North St Paul, Tartan, Cottage Grove, Woodbury and every other area where kids leave to get an education at Hill Murray, by having those players gone from the association in their 1st Bantam year...why not let the privates field a Bantam A team? Maybe that's the future..maybe that's the answer..a Privates only AAA league, to include Shattuck...no states/no Excel...wheres the fun in that?

Happy Turkey day guys and lets just watch football, go see some hockey games this weekend played by kids and, oh wait, FIGHT..Fight in the Penguins/Devils...weak, let them go ref....dang it...where was I...oh well

Sudden Death
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Post by Sudden Death » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:27 pm

You do not own these kids and you have no claim to them. So quit acting like you do.

If a player wants to move on to another program your job is to pat them on the back and say good luck. Then go back to doing your job which is to service the players that are still in your program. If you don't like it or can not handle it quit! After all your just doing it and giving your time out of the goodness of your heart.

Dazed&Confused
Posts: 191
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:31 pm

Private Waivers

Post by Dazed&Confused » Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:42 am

Sudden Death is right. No one person owns these kids. They should allow A bantam level teams at private schools. But would private schools want this? Hockey is expensive and the school would incure more cost. With no gain or advantage. Lets face it you can play on all the teams you want A Or B and in the end the pinnacle for most. It does not matter. My son never played A Bantam Hockey or went to any Select Program. But He is currently playing Varsity Hockey. Let the kids play, let them have fun, and enjoy

BoogeyMan
Posts: 308
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:19 pm
Location: State of Hockey!

Post by BoogeyMan » Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:14 pm

Sudden Death wrote:You do not own these kids and you have no claim to them. So quit acting like you do.

If a player wants to move on to another program your job is to pat them on the back and say good luck. Then go back to doing your job which is to service the players that are still in your program. If you don't like it or can not handle it quit! After all your just doing it and giving your time out of the goodness of your heart.


PEACE! :wink:
Life's simple, but some insist on making it hard

BoogeyMan
Posts: 308
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Location: State of Hockey!

Post by BoogeyMan » Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:22 pm

Sudden Death wrote:You do not own these kids and you have no claim to them. So quit acting like you do.

If a player wants to move on to another program your job is to pat them on the back and say good luck. Then go back to doing your job which is to service the players that are still in your program. If you don't like it or can not handle it quit!


Words well spoken. Why are so many people worried about where other kids skate?

Do kids leave public schools to play hockey? YES!
Do kids leave public schools for a better education? YES!

Who Cares? There's more things to worry about in life.

Like Sudden Death stated: Pat the kids on the back and wish them luck. After all. You're giving your time out of the goodness of your heart. No one is forcing you to volunteer. I for one commend you for doing so.
If the kids are leaving your association. It most likely means something is not being done right within the association.
Life's simple, but some insist on making it hard

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