Father Coaches

ZAMBONI · Post by **ZAMBONI** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:29 pm

Try and get a head coach that does not have a kid on the team and have the dad's of the players that want to help coach be the assistants. My kid played for two different associations and when he played in Albert Lea alot of the coaches wanted to follow there kid up each level as head coach and it was a mess.

GR3343 · Post by **GR3343** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:31 pm

ZAMBONI wrote:Try and get a head coach that does not have a kid on the team and have the dad's of the players that want to help coach be the assistants. My kid played for two different associations and when he played in Albert Lea alot of the coaches wanted to follow there kid up each level as head coach and it was a mess.

Exactly the same situation where I'm from. The father/coach of the Bantam A team is the former Pee Wee A coach of 3 years. (Assistant one year, head the next 2) Rumor has it he made waves to have the Bantam A coach demoted or outsted so he could take over. The previous Bantam A coach has no children in the program and is an alum donating his time to the program. Of the players he has coached in years past, most or all are in the high school a and b program. Point being, he did a good job while he was there, so why move him? To make room for a higher profile dad coach? It seems that dad needed to follow his son all the way up. His assistant also has coached his son at every level. What happens when the players have to play for someone else? The priveleges those players have seen for years probably won't be there when they move on to the high school level. How is that helping? Too many parents get too involved as it is. When players start getting older, they need to experience more than just what their dad's have to offer. They need to be treated equally throughout their playing careers, just like their teammates. In the long run, parent coaches past the squirt level deter their child's progress by either playing them too much or in situations they can't handle, which in turn makes teammates resent them because they aren't allowed those same oppurtunities, or by being too hard on them which makes the kid disrespect the authority of his dad. Either way, it's a lose lose deal. All associations have plenty of time to search for coaches at every level. Why are they scrambling come October? Start looking in March. Meet with them, train them. No matter what town you come from, a solid and decent coach should be able to be found. It doesn't always have to be a parent "volunteer". Just one man's opinion.

ZAMBONI · Post by **ZAMBONI** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:53 pm

I got out of helping coach when my kid reached the pw level because I did'nt want the other parents to say that my kid made it because his dad is the coach and I have no regrets. I have witnessed where a mom was the team manager of her kids team all the way from mites/sq/pw/bantams and would control these coaches and tell them what line her son should be on and all this other bull crap and when the kid played high school level he was lost and confused because mom did'nt have control of the coach and the team anymore. At this time I just sat back and was thinking, lady your setting your kid up for failure.

Puckhead2 · Post by **Puckhead2** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:01 pm

IT REALLY DEPENDS ON THE COACH. A GOOD COACH IS A GOOD COACH. AND AN EXPERIENCED AND GOOD PARENT COACH IS ACCUTELY AWARE OF THE PERCEPTIONS OF HOW HE MANAGES HIS OWN KID DURING THE SEASON, REGARDLESS IF ITS FAIR OR NOT.

I'VE ALWAYS FOUND IT INTERESTING THAT A FAIR PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE WOULD RATHER HAVE AN INFERIOR NON-PARENT COACH INSTEAD OF A QUALIFIED AND EXPERIENCED PARENT COACH. THAT DOESN'T MAKE MUCH SENSE. THE BOTTOM LINE QUESTION IS: DOES THE COACH DEVELOP THE PLAYERS? IF THE ANSWER IS YES, WHO CARES?

GR3343 · Post by **GR3343** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:24 pm

Puckhead2 wrote:IT REALLY DEPENDS ON THE COACH. A GOOD COACH IS A GOOD COACH. AND AN EXPERIENCED AND GOOD PARENT COACH IS ACCUTELY AWARE OF THE PERCEPTIONS OF HOW HE MANAGES HIS OWN KID DURING THE SEASON, REGARDLESS IF ITS FAIR OR NOT.

I'VE ALWAYS FOUND IT INTERESTING THAT A FAIR PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE WOULD RATHER HAVE AN INFERIOR NON-PARENT COACH INSTEAD OF A QUALIFIED AND EXPERIENCED PARENT COACH. THAT DOESN'T MAKE MUCH SENSE. THE BOTTOM LINE QUESTION IS: DOES THE COACH DEVELOP THE PLAYERS? IF THE ANSWER IS YES, WHO CARES?

At what expense does the coach develop players? Is it at the expense of more deserving players? Is it at his own kid's expense? Parents need to stay out of the coaching circle when it involves their own. Parents need to just support their players and leave the coaching to someone else. Players only get to play for so long, then it's over. Especially in their final years of youth hockey, they should be allowed to enjoy and participate fully. Not take the backseat to a coach's kid for the greater glory of the coach and son. Perhaps parent coaches need to take that into account. Again, just one man's opinion.

Puckhead2 · Post by **Puckhead2** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:17 pm

GR- my last message didn't come across the right way after I looked at it...A good coach develops all his players. That doesn't always mean ice time is exactly even, it can't be because of special teams and a reasonable desire to win. So that being the case, if each team has 2 power play units, that means 5 kids don't play very much in those instances...if the coaches kid is on one of those pp units, then it usually is construed as the father coach favoring his kid, which probably isn't very fair.

Ice time is never "even" because of this. A non-parent coach gets the benefit of the doubt because that's the way the game is to be managed, yet in the exact same scenario, a parent coach gets a bunch of grief because his kid is one of the 6 forwards on the power play (only 3 arent)......most parents in the stands don't get that part and would rather have negative feelings toward the coach....

PuckTime · Post by **PuckTime** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:18 pm

Some people here are implying that the parents in the stands are unrealistic in what they are thinking are the abilities of their own kid.
What if the parent coach is doing the same thing of his own? What if his kid doesn't belong on the power play and the one shafted does?
That happens too.

At these levels, every kid should be allowed the opportunity to succeed. I understand come districts, regions, state this won't happen, but give them a chance during the season, they might suprise you.

Letsrepresent19 · Post by **Letsrepresent19** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:26 pm

theres nothing to say a parent cant coach is he/she is good...

but favoring ones son/daughter during ice time is unacceptable.

It always happens, but what can we do. Last year my PeeWee A team had the crappiest non parent coachs ever. I would of been more thrilled on B1

blueblood · Post by **blueblood** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:36 pm

Well that's a no-brainer. The Chaska PWB1's were state champs. Who wouldn't have had more fun.

I bet at the time you made the A team you were pretty happy!

Letsrepresent19 · Post by **Letsrepresent19** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:38 pm

damn right, but the point was b1 had a parent coach, thats the same that coaches BB1 now

PanthersIn2011 · Post by **PanthersIn2011** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:18 pm

Puckhead: I thought you said it pretty well the first time, actually. The attributes that define a good coach are completely independent of whether said coach is a parent -- fairness, integrity, love of the game, respect for the players and parents, etc. A good coach *is* a good coach.

Are there some really bad parent coaches out there? Yup. Are there some bad non-parent coaches out there? Yup. Every case is unique.

JLS 81 · Post by **JLS 81** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:26 pm

I think Edina sets a great example of how to run an organization. It may not be easy to do in all communities but there is a lot of "down time" when player development of associations can solicit and train coaches. Most programs have some very good old timers around who just might wish to coach. There are options for all programs it just takes a little proactive work on the associations part to get it done. Parent coaches are not always a bad thing my kids have had them and fortunately the seasons have gone quite well.

wingman · Post by **wingman** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:28 pm

Sorry guys, I can tell skill builder and others like them have some thoughts/theroies that are good-BUT you are way off on non parent coaches. The two we had at different levels in our association were very very very very bad. Great hockey players, but poor coaches. 1-2-1-2-1-1-1-1-1-1, or 5 minute shifts for line one 22seconds for line 3. Believe me, at least a parent up through bantams has the ear to the team parents. Non parent coach could care less what the parents think, and as a result may not be able to handle critisim that is constructive. So the pendulem swings. Which way is right--A good coach is a good coach regardless, and if the associtation has choosen him or her--then support them and all their decisions with all your might (even if that requires a little thing like keepin your yap shut). If your kid 'ain't good' enough to be the power play selection , etc.--confront this with 'how can I help --what can I do,--take him down to the rink and work on the part of his game - skills that may make him the more obvious choice. No matter what- if you teach him/her to work hard--and just maybe --just maybe they might succeed' and that friends I'm sure you'll all agree is more important than any of this babble.

GR3343 · Post by **GR3343** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:23 pm

PuckTime wrote:Some people here are implying that the parents in the stands are unrealistic in what they are thinking are the abilities of their own kid.
What if the parent coach is doing the same thing of his own? What if his kid doesn't belong on the power play and the one shafted does?
That happens too.

At these levels, every kid should be allowed the opportunity to succeed. I understand come districts, regions, state this won't happen, but give them a chance during the season, they might suprise you.

Well said. Expect the world from your players and they might actually give it to you. All players deserve that whether they are coach's kids or not. Too many times you see one extreme or the other. The parent coach may get more from his team by treating them ALL equally. Every kid has something different they need from a coach as far as how to be handled, but the oppurtunities should all be the same. Not in theory, but in general practice as well. I still believe that parent coaches after the squirt level is not good. You'll never find a parent coach who isn't biased one way or the other, and you'll never find a parent fan who doesn't think his kid is getting passed over for the coach's kid. The answer seems to be actively recruit coaches with knowledge and willingness to give back to their programs. Don't start your search in October and November. There's more than enough time to find solid candidates before that. If you have top level parents that coach, ask them to be involved with the training of other coaches, or coach a team their child doesn't play for. There are answers out there if you look.

skillbuilder · Post by **skillbuilder** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:16 pm

Gr3343,
I would say it's more like 90-95% of parent coaches are biased toward thier kid regarding PP PK or overall ice time but you are close. I'd like to believe there are about 5% who understand, are accountable, and are willing to implement equitable and appropriate ice time for all. I believe I am one of that small group but that is my own perception. Perceptions of certain parents and even parent coaches are skewed by their emotional attachment to their own and I'm no different. The difference with me is that I remind myself all the time that I am, and try to step back and grab some reality when I can. My sons coach and assistant coach think their kids are top players but all but one skater is better than the head coaches kid and there are at least 5 better than the primary assistant coaches kid yet they get more ice time than any other players. It's the primary reason we are 8th of 11 teams in our district. The head coaches kid typically plays with our top forward and it just wastes the talents of that kid and costs us wins all the time. It's that kind of thing that makes it even worse and it's another reason we will be looking for a new winter venue going forward if we can find one. If anyone hears of A Peewee teams being formed under the new AAU hockey venue for next season please pass it on to those of us who have grown tired of issues like parent coach favoritism lack of development etc. It may well exist there as well but I think there are certain things that would be different that would be worth the look in and of themselves. The primary one being hand picking kids and parents who are commited and cooperative which in the association ranks can not be done within a participatory model. That alone is the biggest reason MN Hockey should allow AAA Tier I & II to exist here.

GR3343 · Post by **GR3343** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:48 pm

100% agreed. I am thankful my oldest is moving on to the high school level next year, although I have a daughter in the program battling the same issues. My hopes are by the time my youngest(mite)is at the traveling stage, this will be resolved. You never know.

Puckhead2 · Post by **Puckhead2** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:30 pm

i think there are lots of good points both ways after reading all those messages.....i dunno, I still think a good coach is a good coach and a bad coach is a bad coach.....and as far as ice time, someone has to decide which kids go out on the ice and the last I checked it was up to the coach.....so the kid that gets a little short changed,his mom or dad are gonna be pissed regardless if its a parent coach deciding or a non parent....I'm sure there are extremes

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