One step closer to Big Ten Hockey Conference

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old goalie85
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Post by old goalie85 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:32 am

It will take no longer than five years for the Big ten to be the top conference in college hockey.

mulefarm
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Post by mulefarm » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:38 pm

old goalie85 wrote:It will take no longer than five years for the Big ten to be the top conference in college hockey.
What do you mean by top? Money, attendance, player development, national ratings, ncaa championships

JSR
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Post by JSR » Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:45 pm

mulefarm wrote:
old goalie85 wrote:It will take no longer than five years for the Big ten to be the top conference in college hockey.
What do you mean by top? Money, attendance, player development, national ratings, ncaa championships
If it is money then they are the top conference from day one

NCAA Championships, well if you mean historically again with WI, MN and MI alone they are tops from day one

Attendance, well because they only have 6 teams it might be close but WI is tops in attendance by a long shot and MI and MN are also up there so my guess is that it is likely they'll be at or near the top of that before 5 years.

Player development, that is subjective but who is putting more kids into the pros than the Big Ten schools?

National ratings, that is easy they are tops from day 1 since they have best TV ratings of any other schools already in WI, MN and MI.

My guess is that he meant as far as competitive balance and consistant season in and season out competitiveness top to bottom compared to and against other leagues and possibly even the number of teams that make the NCAA tourney on a regular basis.

no97
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Post by no97 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:13 pm

JSR wrote:
mulefarm wrote:
old goalie85 wrote:It will take no longer than five years for the Big ten to be the top conference in college hockey.
What do you mean by top? Money, attendance, player development, national ratings, ncaa championships
If it is money then they are the top conference from day one

NCAA Championships, well if you mean historically again with WI, MN and MI alone they are tops from day one

Attendance, well because they only have 6 teams it might be close but WI is tops in attendance by a long shot and MI and MN are also up there so my guess is that it is likely they'll be at or near the top of that before 5 years.

Player development, that is subjective but who is putting more kids into the pros than the Big Ten schools?

National ratings, that is easy they are tops from day 1 since they have best TV ratings of any other schools already in WI, MN and MI.

My guess is that he meant as far as competitive balance and consistant season in and season out competitiveness top to bottom compared to and against other leagues and possibly even the number of teams that make the NCAA tourney on a regular basis.
NCAA Championships? No school has ever won a title with a Big 10 patch on their jersey. The WCHA has accounted for 36 National Titles. That won't change with the departure of Minnesota or Wisconsin, just as it didn't change with the departure of Michigan, Michigan State or Northern Michigan (who all won Championships under the WCHA flag).

http://www.wcha.com/men/wcha/history.php

Attendance? The WCHA will do just fine in that area as well - 6 of the top 12 teams last year were in the WCHA (and that includes eliminating Minn and Wisco), and the WCHA will have 7 schools that finished ahead of the poorest-drawing Big 10 school. Those schools should continue to do well going forward.

http://www.uscho.com/stats/attendance/d ... 2010-2011/ *

Player development? Who'd putting more kids into the pro's? Certainly Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan are near the top, but I'd say North Dakota, Denver, Boston College and the like are right there with those teams. It's by no means a run-away for the B1G and Ohio State isn't churning out pros by the truck-load at the moment (and PSU is TBD).


* Note that Michigan's attendance in this link includes the 113,000 at the Big House, making average attendance nearly twice Yost's capacity:

http://www.uscho.com/box/mens-hockey/20 ... -michigan/

old goalie85
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Post by old goalie85 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:28 pm

I meant accross the board. Now that you mention it they will be from day one. Head to head you will see OSU get much better. Kids will gravitate[sp?] to the big ten schools. It is what it is. I'm from Mn. I love Kato,SCSU,BSU,UMD, But the big ten is "the big ten".

warriors41
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Post by warriors41 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:22 pm

old goalie85 wrote:I meant accross the board. Now that you mention it they will be from day one. Head to head you will see OSU get much better. Kids will gravitate[sp?] to the big ten schools. It is what it is. I'm from Mn. I love Kato,SCSU,BSU,UMD, But the big ten is "the big ten".
Yeah it's the Big 10 but let's be realistic. I don't think the conference will be a recruiting tool like the WCHA is now or even Hockey East or some other conferences. The kids who grow up playing hockey usually spend almost all of their time with hockey. They know hockey conferences. They grow up watching hockey teams from the WCHA, CCHA, Hockey East, etc. The Big 10 is the first major conference with other sports that has added hockey to it. You don't see a Big East hockey conference do you? Big 12, SEC, PAC 10, etc. Granted, some of those wouldn't have hockey because geographically it wouldn't make sense but the bottom line is the conferences that are big in say football are known as football conferences or basketball conference. Big 10 hockey is so knew and untested I doubt it will be effective as a recruiting tool. That said, school history will still be effective. Kids who always wanted to be a Gopher will still want to go to the UofM, same with Wisconsin and other places. I don't think many kids will be scared away from the new conference, they just won't be attracted to it because it is such a major force in other sports.

old goalie85
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Post by old goalie85 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:38 pm

Good points. I was thinking, Education, Historys, Fraturnitys, And of course the size of the institutions and athletic depts. Would be attractive to kids. And parents.

MNHockeyFan
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Post by MNHockeyFan » Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:34 pm

Probably more of an "interesting tidbit" than anything, but the Big Ten schools are D1 in all sports they play. The remaining WCHA schools are mostly (if not all?) D1 in hockey only. Doubtful this would influence a potential recruit's decision about where they go, but having "big time athletics" in all sports is a differentiator for the Big Ten schools.

WayOutWest
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Post by WayOutWest » Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:45 pm

no97 wrote: edit - and note I didn't rip on you for misusing "awhile." It's supposed to be two words, not one, in that grammatical form (note examples #1 & #2), idiot :roll:

http://www.grammarmudge.cityslide.com/a ... 3/8557.htm
You don't even realize the tremendous irony in this statement, do you, bright eyes?
Think hard now. Or, ask someone who actually attended college. :oops:

WayOutWest
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Post by WayOutWest » Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:49 pm

warriors41 wrote:
old goalie85 wrote:I meant accross the board. Now that you mention it they will be from day one. Head to head you will see OSU get much better. Kids will gravitate[sp?] to the big ten schools. It is what it is. I'm from Mn. I love Kato,SCSU,BSU,UMD, But the big ten is "the big ten".
Yeah it's the Big 10 but let's be realistic. I don't think the conference will be a recruiting tool like the WCHA is now or even Hockey East or some other conferences. The kids who grow up playing hockey usually spend almost all of their time with hockey. They know hockey conferences. They grow up watching hockey teams from the WCHA, CCHA, Hockey East, etc. The Big 10 is the first major conference with other sports that has added hockey to it. You don't see a Big East hockey conference do you? Big 12, SEC, PAC 10, etc. Granted, some of those wouldn't have hockey because geographically it wouldn't make sense but the bottom line is the conferences that are big in say football are known as football conferences or basketball conference. Big 10 hockey is so knew and untested I doubt it will be effective as a recruiting tool. That said, school history will still be effective. Kids who always wanted to be a Gopher will still want to go to the UofM, same with Wisconsin and other places. I don't think many kids will be scared away from the new conference, they just won't be attracted to it because it is such a major force in other sports.
Absolutely agreed!!
If it ever occurs, it will take decades for great hockey kids to be attracted to Penn State hockey. Any other big ten schools entering the fray would have an even steeper challenge.

WayOutWest
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Post by WayOutWest » Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:55 pm

JSR wrote:You'd earn alot of points in the maturity department by just saying "I was wrong", but that bus left a long time ago.
First, I did admit that I was wrong about the formation of the BIG 10 hockey conference. Please re-read the thread. You will find it if you look. :shock:

Next, you, of all people, are not a credible judge of maturity.
But, thanks for playing. :P

JSR
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Post by JSR » Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:49 am

warriors41 wrote:
old goalie85 wrote:I meant accross the board. Now that you mention it they will be from day one. Head to head you will see OSU get much better. Kids will gravitate[sp?] to the big ten schools. It is what it is. I'm from Mn. I love Kato,SCSU,BSU,UMD, But the big ten is "the big ten".
Yeah it's the Big 10 but let's be realistic. I don't think the conference will be a recruiting tool like the WCHA is now or even Hockey East or some other conferences. The kids who grow up playing hockey usually spend almost all of their time with hockey. They know hockey conferences. They grow up watching hockey teams from the WCHA, CCHA, Hockey East, etc. The Big 10 is the first major conference with other sports that has added hockey to it. You don't see a Big East hockey conference do you? Big 12, SEC, PAC 10, etc. Granted, some of those wouldn't have hockey because geographically it wouldn't make sense but the bottom line is the conferences that are big in say football are known as football conferences or basketball conference. Big 10 hockey is so knew and untested I doubt it will be effective as a recruiting tool. That said, school history will still be effective. Kids who always wanted to be a Gopher will still want to go to the UofM, same with Wisconsin and other places. I don't think many kids will be scared away from the new conference, they just won't be attracted to it because it is such a major force in other sports.
I know hockey kids know hockey but you are fooling yourself if you don't think the Big Ten and it's big name and influence combined with the TV exposue of the BTN won't influence where kids decide to go to school and where their parents want them to go. The conference is technically untested but considering the schools and the administration and the overall athletic conference as a whole is not untested that is rather insignificant. It will be a bigger recruiting tool than the WCHA in short order. Remember PART of the WCHA recruiting tool was MN and WI...... The remaining schools are at a huge disadvantage going forward without those two schools in the conference. Honestly, only UND has the fan base, facilities, history and money to keep pace. DU has SOME of those things but not all and the rest just don't have any of it. Yes, let's be realistic the WCHA needed WI and MN MORE than WI and MN needed the WCHA. Same with MI, MSU and tOSU in the CCHA

JSR
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Post by JSR » Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:55 am

WayOutWest wrote:
warriors41 wrote:
old goalie85 wrote:I meant accross the board. Now that you mention it they will be from day one. Head to head you will see OSU get much better. Kids will gravitate[sp?] to the big ten schools. It is what it is. I'm from Mn. I love Kato,SCSU,BSU,UMD, But the big ten is "the big ten".
Yeah it's the Big 10 but let's be realistic. I don't think the conference will be a recruiting tool like the WCHA is now or even Hockey East or some other conferences. The kids who grow up playing hockey usually spend almost all of their time with hockey. They know hockey conferences. They grow up watching hockey teams from the WCHA, CCHA, Hockey East, etc. The Big 10 is the first major conference with other sports that has added hockey to it. You don't see a Big East hockey conference do you? Big 12, SEC, PAC 10, etc. Granted, some of those wouldn't have hockey because geographically it wouldn't make sense but the bottom line is the conferences that are big in say football are known as football conferences or basketball conference. Big 10 hockey is so knew and untested I doubt it will be effective as a recruiting tool. That said, school history will still be effective. Kids who always wanted to be a Gopher will still want to go to the UofM, same with Wisconsin and other places. I don't think many kids will be scared away from the new conference, they just won't be attracted to it because it is such a major force in other sports.
Absolutely agreed!!
If it ever occurs, it will take decades for great hockey kids to be attracted to Penn State hockey. Any other big ten schools entering the fray would have an even steeper challenge.
LOL, decades????? Really.... that is, well wow. I think if UNO can do it as quickly as they have done it with fewer resources, less money and the fact that they are not in a recruiting hotbed like PSU and the BTN TV exposure lure all make it likely that PSU will be competing with the big boys within 5 years of their existance in D1. Heck they already have a surprisingly semi-ok recruiting class of junior hockey kids coming in next year even though they aren't even a D1 program yet. Those kids are coming in just so they will be upperclassmen for the first year or two of PSU existance in D1. Are they USNDTP caliber or the cream of the crop, no but they are kids who had options. Yet another thing you are wrong about regarding this topic. Keep lobbing them in there though..........

JSR
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Post by JSR » Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:57 am

WayOutWest wrote:
JSR wrote:You'd earn alot of points in the maturity department by just saying "I was wrong", but that bus left a long time ago.
First, I did admit that I was wrong about the formation of the BIG 10 hockey conference. Please re-read the thread. You will find it if you look. :shock:

Next, you, of all people, are not a credible judge of maturity.
But, thanks for playing. :P
I read it, you didn't admit you were wrong. I can read. You back pedaled and just "gave" a statement of hindsight fact but tried to cover it up with more dust and BS. Keep digging that hole. Let me know when you reach China...

old goalie85
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Post by old goalie85 » Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:18 am

Just pure #'s of allumi gives the Big ten schools a certain fan base.

WayOutWest
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Post by WayOutWest » Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:51 am

JSR wrote: I read it, you didn't admit you were wrong. I can read. You back pedaled and just "gave" a statement of hindsight fact but tried to cover it up with more dust and BS. ..
Here, I found it for you:

"I will obviously give you that you were right about the Big10 hockey conference being formed."

It really wasn't difficult. Now, you may not think this is an admission of being incorrect, but then again, you have shown a propensity for having difficulty with reading for comprehension before. :)

WayOutWest
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Post by WayOutWest » Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:10 pm

JSR wrote: LOL, decades????? Really.... that is, well wow. I think if UNO can do it as quickly as they have done it with fewer resources, less money and the fact that they are not in a recruiting hotbed like PSU and the BTN TV exposure lure all make it likely that PSU will be competing with the big boys within 5 years of their existance in D1. Heck they already have a surprisingly semi-ok recruiting class of junior hockey kids coming in next year even though they aren't even a D1 program yet. Those kids are coming in just so they will be upperclassmen for the first year or two of PSU existance in D1. Are they USNDTP caliber or the cream of the crop, no but they are kids who had options. Yet another thing you are wrong about regarding this topic. Keep lobbing them in there though..........
A good comparison for PSU would be to another powerhouse school, like Notre Dame.
Notre Dame has had hockey for nearly a century. They have played D1 since 1968. How many NCAA titles has Notre Dame accumulated? :oops:

Sure, they are okay now, and fairly competitive, but it took a LONG time to get to where they are right now, with still no titles to show for it.

old goalie85
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Post by old goalie85 » Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:36 pm

I don't expect PSU to be a national champ in five years. I do think the Big ten will be a top conference in 5 years.

MNHockeyFan
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Post by MNHockeyFan » Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:16 pm

WayOutWest wrote:A good comparison for PSU would be to another powerhouse school, like Notre Dame.
Notre Dame has had hockey for nearly a century. They have played D1 since 1968. How many NCAA titles has Notre Dame accumulated? :oops:

Sure, they are okay now, and fairly competitive, but it took a LONG time to get to where they are right now, with still no titles to show for it.
Notre Dame is not a good example and for the purposes of this discussion they are irrelevent. Since starting D1 hockey in 1968 they have been an independent (on two different occasions) and members of the WCHA and CCHA for various lengths of time. And for a brief period in the 80's they even gave up their D1 hockey status and played at the club level. So the school hasn't really made hockey a priority until recently (last 5 years) when they've obviously done very well (two frozen four appearances including this year). They are building a new 5,000 seat arena which will give their program more visability both on campus and to potential recruits. In that respect they are similar to Penn State but note that they will remain a member of the CCHA, a conference that will be weakened even more compared to the WCHA. Fortunately for the CCHA they will have Notre Dame as one of their strong anchors once the Big Ten gets going.

DmanDad1980
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Post by DmanDad1980 » Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:20 pm

MNHockeyFan
the CCHA they will have Notre Dame as one of their strong anchors once the Big Ten gets going

...and until Notre Dame joins the Big Ten in Hockey... and Football... :wink:

MNHockeyFan
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Post by MNHockeyFan » Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:25 pm

DmanDad1980 wrote:MNHockeyFan
the CCHA they will have Notre Dame as one of their strong anchors once the Big Ten gets going

...and until Notre Dame joins the Big Ten in Hockey... and Football... :wink:
Possibly, but I don't believe the Big Ten is going to make an exception for any school to play in their conference for just a single sport. In the near future it will be all sports or none (i.e. if you have a D1 team in any given sport you will play in the Big Ten). At Notre Dame football rules the roost, and they have an extremely profitable setup right now.

WayOutWest
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Post by WayOutWest » Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:45 pm

MNHockeyFan wrote: Notre Dame is not a good example and for the purposes of this discussion they are irrelevent. Since starting D1 hockey in 1968 they have been an independent (on two different occasions) and members of the WCHA and CCHA for various lengths of time. And for a brief period in the 80's they even gave up their D1 hockey status and played at the club level. So the school hasn't really made hockey a priority until recently (last 5 years) when they've obviously done very well (two frozen four appearances including this year). They are building a new 5,000 seat arena which will give their program more visability both on campus and to potential recruits. In that respect they are similar to Penn State but note that they will remain a member of the CCHA, a conference that will be weakened even more compared to the WCHA. Fortunately for the CCHA they will have Notre Dame as one of their strong anchors once the Big Ten gets going.
They are as relevent as any. How serious PSU will be in regard to D1 hockey is pure speculation at this point.
And Notre Dame being a "strong anchor" of a weak conference means very little.
Notre Dame has undoubtedly more pull/money than PSU. If they had the will, they could be more influential in attracting kids than PSU.

WayOutWest
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Post by WayOutWest » Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:46 pm

old goalie85 wrote:I don't expect PSU to be a national champ in five years. I do think the Big ten will be a top conference in 5 years.
Right behind the WCHA. :oops:

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Post by PuckU126 » Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:54 pm

MNHockeyFan wrote:
DmanDad1980 wrote:MNHockeyFan
the CCHA they will have Notre Dame as one of their strong anchors once the Big Ten gets going

...and until Notre Dame joins the Big Ten in Hockey... and Football... :wink:
Possibly, but I don't believe the Big Ten is going to make an exception for any school to play in their conference for just a single sport. In the near future it will be all sports or none (i.e. if you have a D1 team in any given sport you will play in the Big Ten). At Notre Dame football rules the roost, and they have an extremely profitable setup right now.
So true.

The Fighting Irish will not be joining the Big Ten in football ever. They make a lot of $$ being televised by NBC. They will remain independent to get that green.

8)
The Puck
LGW

JSR
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Post by JSR » Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:23 pm

WayOutWest wrote:
MNHockeyFan wrote: Notre Dame is not a good example and for the purposes of this discussion they are irrelevent. Since starting D1 hockey in 1968 they have been an independent (on two different occasions) and members of the WCHA and CCHA for various lengths of time. And for a brief period in the 80's they even gave up their D1 hockey status and played at the club level. So the school hasn't really made hockey a priority until recently (last 5 years) when they've obviously done very well (two frozen four appearances including this year). They are building a new 5,000 seat arena which will give their program more visability both on campus and to potential recruits. In that respect they are similar to Penn State but note that they will remain a member of the CCHA, a conference that will be weakened even more compared to the WCHA. Fortunately for the CCHA they will have Notre Dame as one of their strong anchors once the Big Ten gets going.
They are as relevent as any. How serious PSU will be in regard to D1 hockey is pure speculation at this point.
And Notre Dame being a "strong anchor" of a weak conference means very little.
Notre Dame has undoubtedly more pull/money than PSU. If they had the will, they could be more influential in attracting kids than PSU.
Om my dear lord. Seriously...... more money and pull than PSU.... ugh. Everyone knows about Notre Dame's NBC contract but guess what, every single school in the Big Ten brings in MORE money from TV than ND does from NBC. Why do you think ND seriously considered the leap to the Big Ten this year, because they know the BTN deal is worth more money. Also, while I do not doubt Notre Dame's deep pockets to say they have more pull or money than PSU is laughable at best. As for it being a good example, no it's not one. And what is seriously funny is your use of "pure speculation" once again on a subject that is not speculative at all. The facilities and money being put up by PSU donors and the school itself combined with the committment of a BTHC now mean that PSU IS committed to hockey. It is not speculation it's fact, geez.

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