CoVid-19

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grindiangrad-80
Posts: 2504
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:00 pm

Re: CoVid-19

Post by grindiangrad-80 » Wed May 06, 2020 9:41 pm

I reiterate - when this wave escalates out of control this summer and fall, what then?

It's been out of control for 2 months now.

Let's get back to work.

7TIMECHAMPS
Posts: 279
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:58 pm

Re: CoVid-19

Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Wed May 06, 2020 9:43 pm

jg2112 wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 7:51 pm
7TIMECHAMPS wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 6:10 pm
blueblood wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 5:57 pm
Your "wonderful example" causes me to believe that you feel it's in our best interest to be locked up for, say 12 to 18 months, until a FDA approved vaccine is on the market.

Does it also mean that you expect every man, woman, and child to get the vaccine? If so, good luck with that as their are some who believe vaccinating their children is taboo; let alone the persons who don't get a flu vaccine, when they are recommended to do so.
Exact same thought. What is the solution to the problem that is given? Lock everyone down until we have a vaccine? We are nowhere near hospital capacity right now and no hospital system to date has been overwhelmed in the US. Taking steps to open the economy is the logical thing to do.

And in your example the easier way to protect the LT care residents would be to lock down all medical professionals, not everyone. The medical worker isn't at the hockey game and all is well right? Millions of scenarios to go through but it is impossible to stop this thing. It is going to run its course.
Several countries stopped the virus. America chose not to try.

Again, nobody wants to be locked down, and opening up would be fine if we had testing and tracing! Why ignore that reality? Test, trace and isolate. We aren’t even trying. That is the critical problem here.

I reiterate - when this wave escalates out of control this summer and fall, what then?
Not trying? What is it 8 weeks that MN has been on lockdown now? That is not trying?

Didn’t our governor say we needed 5,000 tests a day to open up? What are we doing right now? It is pretty close to that and all indications are we should blow that away in the not too distant future. Did I hear 10,000-20,000 by the end of the month? I am guessing he had some idea what he was talking about when he gave that number but maybe he and his advisors are just full of it idk. So what is the number if it isn’t that?

Study’s in NY are indicating maybe 2,000,000 people there have already had it (I see numbers like 20% of NYC). If that is the case I’m not too worried about it “getting out of control”.

You mention summer and fall. So your solution is to lock down until next winter basically? I’m sorry that just isn’t a viable solution.
Last edited by 7TIMECHAMPS on Thu May 07, 2020 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

Hunters1993
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:22 am

Re: CoVid-19

Post by Hunters1993 » Wed May 06, 2020 10:24 pm

OMG. Lock down the nursing staff? Really!

Do you have any idea what nurses and healthcare professionals do everyday. Even before this pandemic nurses do extraordinary things every day, now they are caring for people daily while putting their lives in danger caring for people who could infect them and cause dire consequences in their lives. Nurses are present day superheroes!
Go to an ICU near you or an Emergency room and watch what occurs on a Friday or Saturday. Don’t watch tv healthcare shows. Try real life!!!
Last edited by Hunters1993 on Wed May 06, 2020 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hunters1993
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by Hunters1993 » Wed May 06, 2020 10:31 pm

What is everyone talking about lockdown for next 2 years.

Curbside service by many businesses.libraries, resturaunts,
Meat packing places ensuring safety of workers and reopening.
MLB opening up in July.
Parks and park trails open.
Businesses create safety plan and submit to government to reopen businesses.
Grocery stores open.
U of M planning to have on campus school and fall sports.

Relax. Things are slowly opening back up. Give it time, it’s not going to be twelve months before stay at home ends.
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Hunters1993
Posts: 415
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by Hunters1993 » Wed May 06, 2020 10:58 pm

I found several documents stating Minnesota has 240 ICU beds. Currently 180 of those beds are being used.

Trending last week ICU beds being used
118
135
155
166
182

Look at number infected over last week
500
400
400
500
600
700.

Stay at home for common good! We have not reached the plateau yet!
#KEEPTHEKIDSINTHECLASSROOM

Hunters1993
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:22 am

Re: CoVid-19

Post by Hunters1993 » Wed May 06, 2020 11:03 pm

7TIMECHAMPS wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 6:10 pm
blueblood wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 5:57 pm
Your "wonderful example" causes me to believe that you feel it's in our best interest to be locked up for, say 12 to 18 months, until a FDA approved vaccine is on the market.

Does it also mean that you expect every man, woman, and child to get the vaccine? If so, good luck with that as their are some who believe vaccinating their children is taboo; let alone the persons who don't get a flu vaccine, when they are recommended to do so.
Exact same thought. What is the solution to the problem that is given? Lock everyone down until we have a vaccine? We are nowhere near hospital capacity right now and no hospital system to date has been overwhelmed in the US. Taking steps to open the economy is the logical thing to do.

And in your example the easier way to protect the LT care residents would be to lock down all medical professionals, not everyone. The medical worker isn't at the hockey game and all is well right? Millions of scenarios to go through but it is impossible to stop this thing. It is going to run its course.

Point is to show you 7Time how little it takes to spread this thing. It will run its course but we can slow the curve. Common good to take precautions.
#KEEPTHEKIDSINTHECLASSROOM

InThePipes
Posts: 927
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by InThePipes » Thu May 07, 2020 7:06 am

Hunters1993 wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 10:58 pm
I found several documents stating Minnesota has 240 ICU beds. Currently 180 of those beds are being used.

Trending last week ICU beds being used
118
135
155
166
182

Look at number infected over last week
500
400
400
500
600
700.

Stay at home for common good! We have not reached the plateau yet!
The number of available ICU beds (240) is incorrect, the state has many more than 240 beds and capacity to create over 1300 more in 72 hours, if needed:

https://mn.gov/covid19/data/response-prep/index.jsp

A week ago the state was generally conducting 2000-2500 test per day, that has increased to 4000-5000 over the last week, so that impacts the number of cases detected...in general the more you shoot the puck (test), the more you'll score (positive COVID-19 result):

https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases ... l#testing1

Be careful with information sources, far too many of them are significantly sensationalized and flawed at a time when it probably isn't helpful to do so.

7TIMECHAMPS
Posts: 279
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:58 pm

Re: CoVid-19

Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Thu May 07, 2020 7:24 am

Hunters1993 wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 10:24 pm
OMG. Lock down the nursing staff? Really!

Do you have any idea what nurses and healthcare professionals do everyday. Even before this pandemic nurses do extraordinary things every day, now they are caring for people daily while putting their lives in danger caring for people who could infect them and cause dire consequences in their lives. Nurses are present day superheroes!
Go to an ICU near you or an Emergency room and watch what occurs on a Friday or Saturday. Don’t watch tv healthcare shows. Try real life!!!
What? A few days ago you if people wanted to leave their houses to go to work you wanted them to sign a document forfeiting their access to healthcare. Now you don't want to be locked down? In the example YOU GAVE you said the issue is that even with locked down facilities healthcare workers are transmitting the virus to LT care residents etc. Okay so wouldn't that solve a lot of the issues here? Arena workers can get back to work, kids can get back to playing the games they love, and people aren't spreading the virus to healthcare workers in public like you said would be a potential issue. You can't say that it is appropriate for people to sacrifice their means of living (business or job) and in the same breath say you aren't willing to sacrifice your ability to watch hockey.

And tell me where I or anyone said anything about what Healthcare workers do? You're trying to pull on some heart strings or something but it is really just more thoughtless babbling. Nobody said anything about what nurses do.

7TIMECHAMPS
Posts: 279
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:58 pm

Re: CoVid-19

Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Thu May 07, 2020 7:41 am

Hunters1993 wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 10:58 pm
I found several documents stating Minnesota has 240 ICU beds. Currently 180 of those beds are being used.

Trending last week ICU beds being used
118
135
155
166
182

Look at number infected over last week
500
400
400
500
600
700.

Stay at home for common good! We have not reached the plateau yet!
Yeah you left out the part where we can have 1300-1400 more ready in 72 hours. So to be clear we are at about 10%-15% capacity. Sure it could "blow up" or whatever but we are nowhere near that right now. At this rate maybe we will "plateau" sometime next summer (sarcasm).

Here is another thing to think about. The health professionals have said for every positive case they expect there are up to 100 more cases in the state that are undetected. I am assuming you have heard this. If that were the case that would mean we have 857,900 cases in the state (8,570*100) and that equates to 180 people in ICU. Now we don't know what that number actually is, but by the health professionals own admission there is a chance that that every person in the state could have this at the same time and we still wouldn't be overwhelmed (population of MN at roughly 5 million).

7TIMECHAMPS
Posts: 279
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:58 pm

Re: CoVid-19

Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Thu May 07, 2020 7:48 am

Hunters1993 wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 11:03 pm
7TIMECHAMPS wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 6:10 pm
blueblood wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 5:57 pm
Your "wonderful example" causes me to believe that you feel it's in our best interest to be locked up for, say 12 to 18 months, until a FDA approved vaccine is on the market.

Does it also mean that you expect every man, woman, and child to get the vaccine? If so, good luck with that as their are some who believe vaccinating their children is taboo; let alone the persons who don't get a flu vaccine, when they are recommended to do so.
Exact same thought. What is the solution to the problem that is given? Lock everyone down until we have a vaccine? We are nowhere near hospital capacity right now and no hospital system to date has been overwhelmed in the US. Taking steps to open the economy is the logical thing to do.

And in your example the easier way to protect the LT care residents would be to lock down all medical professionals, not everyone. The medical worker isn't at the hockey game and all is well right? Millions of scenarios to go through but it is impossible to stop this thing. It is going to run its course.

Point is to show you 7Time how little it takes to spread this thing. It will run its course but we can slow the curve. Common good to take precautions.
If that is the case and all we can do is "slow the curve" did NYC really have it that bad? Keep in mind they never overwhelmed their healthcare system and are now well on their way down. Around 20% of their population now has antibodies. Not saying they for sure come out ahead at the end of this but I am not saying they for sure come out behind either. Time will tell.

jg2112
Posts: 864
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by jg2112 » Thu May 07, 2020 8:16 am

7TIMECHAMPS wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 7:48 am
Hunters1993 wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 11:03 pm
7TIMECHAMPS wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 6:10 pm


Exact same thought. What is the solution to the problem that is given? Lock everyone down until we have a vaccine? We are nowhere near hospital capacity right now and no hospital system to date has been overwhelmed in the US. Taking steps to open the economy is the logical thing to do.

And in your example the easier way to protect the LT care residents would be to lock down all medical professionals, not everyone. The medical worker isn't at the hockey game and all is well right? Millions of scenarios to go through but it is impossible to stop this thing. It is going to run its course.

Point is to show you 7Time how little it takes to spread this thing. It will run its course but we can slow the curve. Common good to take precautions.
If that is the case and all we can do is "slow the curve" did NYC really have it that bad? Keep in mind they never overwhelmed their healthcare system and are now well on their way down. Around 20% of their population now has antibodies. Not saying they for sure come out ahead at the end of this but I am not saying they for sure come out behind either. Time will tell.
New York State has lost almost 26,000 to this virus. That's the city of Winona wiped from the population of New York. That's not even considering the trauma healthcare workers have had to endure because of the complete failure to have equipment and resources they had to sustain. Yes, they have come out of this badly. Very badly. I can't believe this is even a topic of discussion.

Nobody wants to be in lockdown, but we do it to save lives. I don't want to lose my parents and grandparents, so I keep my distance and help to stop the spread.

Nobody telling me to go back and shop for the good of the economy will override my common sense when it comes to stopping this virus, and that's the unspoken truth for business in this country. This country will not "open up" and "be back to normal" again until the virus has been stopped. I completely understand the frustration of businesspeople in this situation, but, reality is that the economy will operate in fits and starts until public health has been secured. That's not political in any way.

7TIMECHAMPS
Posts: 279
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:58 pm

Re: CoVid-19

Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Thu May 07, 2020 9:07 am

jg2112 wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 8:16 am
7TIMECHAMPS wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 7:48 am
Hunters1993 wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 11:03 pm



Point is to show you 7Time how little it takes to spread this thing. It will run its course but we can slow the curve. Common good to take precautions.
If that is the case and all we can do is "slow the curve" did NYC really have it that bad? Keep in mind they never overwhelmed their healthcare system and are now well on their way down. Around 20% of their population now has antibodies. Not saying they for sure come out ahead at the end of this but I am not saying they for sure come out behind either. Time will tell.
New York State has lost almost 26,000 to this virus. That's the city of Winona wiped from the population of New York. That's not even considering the trauma healthcare workers have had to endure because of the complete failure to have equipment and resources they had to sustain. Yes, they have come out of this badly. Very badly. I can't believe this is even a topic of discussion.

Nobody wants to be in lockdown, but we do it to save lives. I don't want to lose my parents and grandparents, so I keep my distance and help to stop the spread.

Nobody telling me to go back and shop for the good of the economy will override my common sense when it comes to stopping this virus, and that's the unspoken truth for business in this country. This country will not "open up" and "be back to normal" again until the virus has been stopped. I completely understand the frustration of businesspeople in this situation, but, reality is that the economy will operate in fits and starts until public health has been secured. That's not political in any way.
It is well established that the virus is bad. The question is will NYC have had it worse off than other places. They very well could end up with a death rate relative to their population that is similar to other areas. By most accounts people didn't die because they couldn't get care. They didn't overrun their capacity.

Complete failure to have equipment? That is a major stretch. Ask governor Cuomo. Everyone that needed a bed or ventilator got one. Most accounts are that NY didn't experience major shortages of equipment. Even the much discussed PPE and ventilators. Here is a quote from Andrew Cuomo around the time of their peak (April 10).

The state of New York is "relatively comfortable" with its supply of ventilators and personal protective equipment, according to Gov. Andrew Cuomo.

New York, which is suffering the worst coronavirus outbreak in the nation, has been struggling with shortages on medical equipment such as face masks, gloves, and ventilators. As of Friday, Cuomo said the state has enough equipment to function.

"We're OK right now. We're OK. PPE you need every day. We have a stockpile where we are now relatively comfortable," Cuomo said. "Remember, what we're saying to these hospitals, they're all uncomfortable. If you ask any hospital if they have enough PPE, they will say no. It is like asking a budget director does he have enough revenue. They will never say yes."

He continued, "These hospitals are accustomed to having a one-month to two-month stockpile. They are now looking at several days of stockpile. So, they are all uncomfortable, but we only have several days for any hospital. And we do have several days for every hospital, and we do have a supply that's coming in. So, compared to how we have been operating on this new dire circumstances, we are relatively comfortable with ventilators and PPE."


Health care workers have a tough job right now, no doubt. However, we are expecting this to spread everywhere right? So how do we know that when all is said and done that they had a worse experience than the same people elsewhere? At least their hospital hasn't closed and they lost their job, or been laid off (even the increased unemployment won't come close to covering a doctor's salary) on top of this. Also, they won't have had to watch their patients suffer from cancer that was diagnosed too late because we are waiting for a peak that takes months to arrive. There was an article in the trib yesteterday detailing this. The Grand Marais hospital is being pushed to the brink and they don't have a single case yet. Most industry experts don't expect rural hospitals to ever fully recover.

You are right demand isn't coming back to where it was prior to the pandemic any time soon, but the best reason to open is to save those that will be able to squeak by. Small business is the engine of America. Some experts are predicting around half of them will be closed for good. If we open everything immediately there will still be a lot of carnage. The longer we wait the more exponentially worse it gets.

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/ ... iness-fear

jg2112
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by jg2112 » Thu May 07, 2020 9:35 am

You win the argument, because I don't want to argue this anymore.

This was an avoidable catastrophe, on both the health and economic fronts. A self-inflicted wound. The lack of leadership and commitment astounding.

Germany, New Zealand, South Korea, even Poland and Denmark committed to test, trace and isolate and they are recovering. German soccer is back next weekend!

Italy, Spain and France got hammered but they bent the infection rate down and are now recovering, opening up from lockdown with a plan.

The U.S.?

Go ahead and open up every aspect of the U.S. economy. I don't think it will matter.

Hunters1993
Posts: 415
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by Hunters1993 » Thu May 07, 2020 10:03 am

OMG. 7Time! You did tell nurses to stay home yesterday!
All I can say is OMG . I am terrified of the lack of knowledge by people like 7Time and some others.

I listed things that are opening up. To show there is a light at the end of the tunnel and it won’t be 12 months of lockdown. We will get back to normal but don’t rush it. For the common good.

Nurses will do our best to get healthcare provided and I hope someone out there has a CDC website they can visit for what to do.

Hopefully the idea of what is for the common good prevails!


I can’t tolerate this nonsense and I’m out!

I listed

Common Good. Not your good, not your kids good, not your businesses good, THE COMMON GOOD
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7TIMECHAMPS
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Thu May 07, 2020 11:04 am

Hunters1993 wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 10:03 am
OMG. 7Time! You did tell nurses to stay home yesterday!
All I can say is OMG . I am terrified of the lack of knowledge by people like 7Time and some others.

I listed things that are opening up. To show there is a light at the end of the tunnel and it won’t be 12 months of lockdown. We will get back to normal but don’t rush it. For the common good.

Nurses will do our best to get healthcare provided and I hope someone out there has a CDC website they can visit for what to do.

Hopefully the idea of what is for the common good prevails!


I can’t tolerate this nonsense and I’m out!

I listed

Common Good. Not your good, not your kids good, not your businesses good, THE COMMON GOOD
Go back and read. In YOUR EXAMPLE the problem was that a nurse went to a hockey game and got infected and then passed that to a LT care resident. So I suggested that maybe just the people that are in contact with LT care residents should stay home instead of everyone. Then you go off on some tangent about how I don't know what nurses do. You told everyone to stay home or else don't ask for healthcare. Now today it seems like you yourself doesn't want to stay home. Make up your mind.

You lacking the ability to follow a conversation very much so terrifies me. Based on your posts in the actual hockey topics it shouldn't surprise me though. Most of them are pointless ramblings about a certain team that aren't even relevant to discussions being had.

You are changing your tune some to acknowledge that things will need to open up and people will need to go back to work though. I will count that as a victory. I would still be interested to hear at what point people can go back to work and not sign their right to healthcare away though.

Hunters1993
Posts: 415
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by Hunters1993 » Thu May 07, 2020 11:11 am

I am acknowledging that it is neccessary to stay at home now. Let the CDC and governor direct. Follow and stay home unless you have to . Just trying to show that things are slowly returning to normal. Take a deep breath and give this thing time.

7Time. Take your head out of the dirt and realize what needs to be done for the common good. Think about it. I know it’s hard.
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Hunters1993
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by Hunters1993 » Thu May 07, 2020 11:15 am

Could you think for a minute about how many people are in contact with healthcare providers every day. Probably 90% of the population. You seriously are asking everyone who is in contact with healthcare people to stay home. So healthcare professionals and all their friends get punished! Their family! Their relatives! Are you kidding me. Punishing those that are working their a.. off keeping people alive and going towards the danger of this thing when caring for people in the hospitals.
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Hunters1993
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by Hunters1993 » Thu May 07, 2020 11:17 am

7Time. You are not only dragging your name in the mud with this stuff but your community by association!
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7TIMECHAMPS
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Thu May 07, 2020 11:20 am

jg2112 wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 9:35 am
You win the argument, because I don't want to argue this anymore.

This was an avoidable catastrophe, on both the health and economic fronts. A self-inflicted wound. The lack of leadership and commitment astounding.

Germany, New Zealand, South Korea, even Poland and Denmark committed to test, trace and isolate and they are recovering. German soccer is back next weekend!

Italy, Spain and France got hammered but they bent the infection rate down and are now recovering, opening up from lockdown with a plan.

The U.S.?

Go ahead and open up every aspect of the U.S. economy. I don't think it will matter.
Avoidable? This was avoidable to nobody. And nothing is apples to apples here as far as countries. Comparing countries (especially like New Zealand and South Korea) to the US is not a good comparison at all. The US is a whole different animal. I could give the same comparison at the state level. Have the bottom six states (Montana, Hawaii, Alaska, Wyoming, South Dakota, and Utah) in cases per 100K done a better job of managing the virus than some of the worst (NY, NJ, Mass, Conn, etc) or are there a lot of other factors at play that influence that? If comparisons like this are useful then maybe we should look at what states like Montana, Hawaii, Alaska, Wyoming, SD and Utah are doing (generally more relaxed approaches). Or we can do a county approach if you want. What is LOW county (zero cases) doing differently than Ramsey or Hennepin? Maybe we ought to send somebody up there to find out!

I agree the leadership and commitment failures were astounding. When I read some of the statements by De Blasio and Cuomo in February and March when the virus was know to be spreading widely there I cringe. And the CDC botching the test they made and not accepting the WHO test is equally as cringe worthy.

7TIMECHAMPS
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Thu May 07, 2020 11:22 am

Hunters1993 wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 11:15 am
Could you think for a minute about how many people are in contact with healthcare providers every day. Probably 90% of the population. You seriously are asking everyone who is in contact with healthcare people to stay home. So healthcare professionals and all their friends get punished! Their family! Their relatives! Are you kidding me. Punishing those that are working their a.. off keeping people alive and going towards the danger of this thing when caring for people in the hospitals.
What are you talking about? You are asking everyone (including healthcare workers to stay home). For healthcare workers what am I saying that is different?

7TIMECHAMPS
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Thu May 07, 2020 11:26 am

Hunters1993 wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 11:17 am
7Time. You are not only dragging your name in the mud with this stuff but your community by association!
This is a real joke of a statement. Roseau county has one case and it was probably a month ago. We have been on lockdown for two months now. For our county this shutdown jumped the gun big time. Most people in Roseau agree with me. Don't believe me? Roseau City council voted unanimously to ask the governor to allow businesses here to open. Look it up there is an article in the GF Herald. Maybe do a little research before saying things like this.

You seriously think this was the right action for NW MN? What a joke.

elliott70
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by elliott70 » Thu May 07, 2020 11:33 am

LOCK IT UP.

BobSaget
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by BobSaget » Thu May 07, 2020 11:44 am

elliott70 wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 11:33 am
LOCK IT UP.
Agreed. It's almost like people have made up their minds and all that's left is deciphering who is willing to go to battle in the unwinnable internet argument.

All I will say on the political side is that with the more stimulus that gets injected into the economy, the more bitcoin I'm buying.

Hunters1993
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by Hunters1993 » Thu May 07, 2020 11:46 am

Don’t worry I am not posting on this subject again. I am done!
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7TIMECHAMPS
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Thu May 07, 2020 11:54 am

Same

Locked