northern teams

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:34 pm

It looks like the north may have 8 Jr. Gold A teams.

hawkeyes100 · Post by **hawkeyes100** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:55 am

Who are they.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:51 pm

If memeory serves right - there are the normal teams of Moorhead, Grand Rapids, Duluth, and then Bemidji, Cloquet (Carlton/Esko), Brainerd, and Walker. Chisholm is in the process of trying to form something. The idea is for all to play A so they can have a good schedule up north and then a north region event with a couple of teams moving off to state. I know some may not be that strong, but Walker has a kid moving up from bantams that will make them better. Bemidji will have several senior kids, Brainerd should have most kids back as seniors. So they may not be able to beat Moorhead or Duluth but they should make it interesting for them. And of course these associations can 'rainbow' kids in from other programs so Chishol could pick up IR area kids that do not make a HS team or do not want to play HS.

Suckerpunch · Post by **Suckerpunch** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:29 pm

Ahhhhhhh..... The Metro league vs the Northern league. This should make the State Tournament more exciting. I've always felt that the northern teams could dominate Jr Gold if they only had more teams to play. Bigger a better run leagues always draw in bigger and better talent.

hawkeyes100 · Post by **hawkeyes100** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:01 pm

Thanks, This season should be very interesting. I heard Cloquet has a very high number to work an Jr.Gold team this year, with quys from esko carlton mooselake hermantown also going out for this team. This should make for a good season. But.. I feel Duluth will be beatable this year. Transfers to other schools and the fact that East will pull a high number Bantams up to fill spots on their High School team will not help Duluth out at all. They depend on the east program to fill spots up. From whats been talked about there arn't many cuts this year from the High School levels. With a new disrtict 11 manager I hope he will watch for players being put on teams after Dec 31. My concern from what was told to me is the Duluth JRA team place a goalie well after the Dec 31 date. We need to play fair and keep this program going strong. These young guys give all they have to this sport. I noticed you mention Cloquet are they having a team there or at Calrton. Cloquet has one of the nicest buildings up north from the cities. I've been to Carltons shelter once and man let me till you something thats below a shelter. I hope they have a fundraiser and raise alot of money that place needs it. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... eyes100</A> at: 9/16/05 1:13 pm

duluth17 · Post by **duluth17** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:42 pm

I'd be really surprised if that many teams materialized. It would be great for the Northland. But: Cloquet - They have the players but need coaches. Carlton - need coaches and a governing body that will support the program. Bemidji - They always wait until late Nov. to see who's playing hockey and who's going sledding. Chisholm - There was a rumor last year about getting a team together. It could happen, but who's in charge? As for Duluth, Here are some things people down in the Cities might not know about Butch and his tricks. Here's a few things he's been know to do: 1.) Add players after the deadline (last year he did this with a goalie, year before with a forward). 2.) Cut players at the December 31st deadline so they can’t be picked up by other teams in the area. His teams are typically formed after the deadline. Many players in the area end up quitting hockey, never to return. 3.) Does not encourage more than one “A” locally (example: Carlton). He would rather have them “B” teams. This way, he gets the best players from the region. For the past few years, Duluth has had more than enough for two “A” teams, yet DAHA only fields one. 4.) Tries to suspend players from opposing teams for “off ice” issues that are none of his business.

hawkeyes100 · Post by **hawkeyes100** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:23 am

I've heard rumors of Butch and the games he playes. Why doesn't someone step in and do something. How can he be allowed to do thses things? And whats up with DAHA why isn't there another team in Duluth at least make it a B team. From all the bits and pieces I've picked up both Butch and the district 11 manager and Daha are all in this together. What shame. As for the other teams I hope they make it this year. I myself would have enjoyed to get back in the Jr.Gold program, this is something I've been pushing around for a year. My job will interfer with any coaching but down the road I hope things will straighten out. Hell I,m only 25 so something should give down the road.

troll21 · Post by **troll21** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:54 am

Elliot70 Its great to hear that the Jr. Gold in the northern regions will expand. Duluth 17 - I would assume with Butch being around for more than 20 years coaching Jr. Gold Hockey, 35 plus years of coaching, I think that the folks in the cities and MINNESOTA hockey know him pretty well. He is one of the most respected Jr. Gold coaches in the state. Before you open your trap, you should really look at what you are saying. The deadline issue: I am sure Elliot 70 could answer that question on why a player can be added after the deadline. Cutting kids on December 31, for they can not be picked up by other teams? come on. He is one of the biggest supporters of creating more teams, he helped Carlton and Chisolm. Do you think he likes coming to the cities every weekend for good competition? In regards to the numbers, read the DAHA minutes and you will see the numbers for Jr. Gold. Suspend players from other teams? Great! 99% of coaches would thank him. YOU should not be smoking, drinking, or chewing while participating in youth hockey and put yourself in that position. Hawks - weren't you offered the job? I have heard a rumor that is looking to turn the reins over to somebody who wants the job. Funny, he has offered the position in the past but no one steps up. At his coaching clinics, he uses the saying, "if you can do a better job, here is the whistle". If there where registration or eligibility problems, do you really think a coach would jeopardize his teams chances for MAHA playoffs or state and being suspended from coaching hockey in Minnesota? Hawks and Duluth 17, there are people that monitor the situations you both are complaining about. You go after a coach, that is fine, you start going after DAHA or Minnesota Hockey, your coaching tenure will be short in Minnesota.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 10:01 am

From what was discussed last weekeknd and from what I have learned this week: Moorhead, Brainerd, Walker & Bemidji will probably co-op, Grand Rapids, Chisholm, Duluth, Cloquet-Carlton-Esko and possibly Mesabi East area. 7 to 8 teams. Walker & Bemidji may possibly have two teams but only time will make that determination. I know nothing of the Mesabi East situation other than I was told they may have a team. As of today I would say there will be 7 teams with an 8th possilbe. Regions will be held in Chisholm. 2 teams will advance to the State Jr. Gold A.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 10:05 am

Last year I heard rumors of funny business in Distrtict 11 regarding Jr. Gold. I asked the Gold vice president and he said he was aware of the rumors but was working closely with the organizations and assured me everything was on the up and up. If a person ahs evidence of a MN / USA Hockey violation they should bring it to the cognizant District Director. If they feel that he has not handled it properly they should file a grievance with MN Hockey.

duluth17 · Post by **duluth17** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:18 am

"He is one of the biggest supporters of creating more teams, he helped Carlton and Chisolm." Troll, Butch has suppressed Carlton since the demise of the Cloquet program years ago. Who do you think has had a say on whether Carlton can be an "A" or a "B" team. District 11 has always asked Butch's "opinion" on where Carlton should be placed. Why? Were is one of the programs Butch gets his players...Cloquet. If Carlton is made a "B" team, those guys can go to Duluth. Case in point, where did Duluth's #1 goalie come from last year? When he went down in mid December with an ankle injury, Butch scrambled to find another goalie (BTW, he was carring two at the time). Thus the "late" addition to his roster. As for growth? Year before last Duluth had 27 kids tryout for the team. This was BEFORE high school cuts. None of those kids who got cut came back to try out last year. Because of that numbers were down. "Cutting kids on December 31" - Ever play his team after Christmas and then after the 31st? "YOU should not be smoking, drinking, or chewing while participating in youth hockey and put yourself in that position." - It had nothing to do with that. Again...it was none of his business. "Last year I heard rumors of funny business in Distrtict 11 regarding Jr. Gold." - You got that right. Respected? Think again. Maybe by a few, but not by all.

troll21 · Post by **troll21** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:20 pm

We will go back and forth on what we know and hear. We are entitled to our opinion and our statements. Quote: Butch has suppressed Carlton since the demise of the Cloquet program years ago. Who do you think has had a say on whether Carlton can be an "A" or a "B" team. District 11 has always asked Butch's "opinion" on where Carlton should be placed. Why do you think the district asked for his opinion? He may know something. The ultimate decision comes down to the ASSOCIATION not the opinion of one guy. Talk to your association for making the choice, not another coach. Carlton belonged in the B division, they had no business at the A level. I said it before on this forum, Carleton play ed with a lot of heart and passion for the game but did not have the skill to play at the A level. You should really read the bylaws of your local association. The player has to seek the approval of there local association for a waiver to go and play in Duluth. The local assocaition let the player go, don't fault another coach for taking him. I believe the injury issue is allowed by MN HOckey but I am not certain. Check the MN Hockey By laws.... Numbers, They have been trying to establish a B team for years but there has not been a coach or enough interest from the cut players. Attend the DAHA meetings, you will hear the same issue. Since you are done playing Jr. Gold, step up and offer to coach a team. I have played Butch many times in the last 15 years. You are correct about the roster changing after Christmas and after December 31. It's allowed to change your roster in that 6 day period. I have done it myself. Funny business is when we make jokes. The roster was checked in all the tournaments he played in. Roster was checked in regionals and it was ok. What is the problem? I have a lot of respect for the Distrcit directors and MAHA directors. IF there where rumors, I am sure it was checked and looked into. Do you have an interest in the smoking or drinking issue that happend in Brainerd outside the hotel room? Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... troll21</A> at: 9/20/05 12:22 pm

hawkeyes100 · Post by **hawkeyes100** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:24 pm

troll21 No I wasn't offered any coaching job. I was very interested last year in coaching and still would like to get a shot down the road. From what I've heard and saw myself I feel there should be changes(Duluth Jr Gold). Fair is fair and I know for a fact that rules have been broken. I may be young but I'm fair, the 30+ years that the duluth coach has done has been appreciated. I had the honor to watch the duluth team practice and play afew times as well as some of the other teams. I also heard alot of rumors but the only way to find the truth is to go to the source. I'm sure Daha dosent know everything with the Jr Gold team but that coach does. And rules are rules. This is for all teams, I heard Carlton had issues Superior, Grand Rapid, braneird also did. Deal with them and be fair. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... eyes100</A> at: 9/20/05 1:27 pm

duluth17 · Post by **duluth17** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:41 pm

Hawk is right. Butch has had the team for years. It's his team and DAHA leaves him alone. He manipulated rules often. Troll, I'll let it go at that. You are making too many assumptions on a lot of these issuses. For instance, the incident I am refering to was not at Brainerd. As for knowing it or hearing it... I lived it and witnessed it. As for stepping up and coaching it...did it. As a matter of fact in that district... under Mr. Coole.

troll21 · Post by **troll21** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:08 pm

I know we are way of the thread and I apologize to the readers. However, DAHA would know everything in regards to registration, as would the District director; they are the one's that MUST sign and prepare the roster. I agree rules must be followed, I am the biggest jerk in the world in regards to following rules and making sure others do the same. Just got of the phone with Butch and if you have issues with him or his Jr. Gold team call him; he will take you out for a beer, discuss your concern, listen to you, talk about the issue, and shake your hand after everything has been said. Think you can do a better job, tell him you want his job and apply. As Elliot stated earlier, what are your facts? Everything that has been said is a rumor or funny business. Don't drag a man's reputation and team into an issue unless you have facts. Stating the facts on this website are inappropriate and should be brought to the DAHA board. They are in the phone book. If you have a concern, get of the computer and call them. I am sure Mr. Cole would listen to your concern( If he is still the President). Hawks I appreciate your enthusiasm to coach at the Jr. GOld level. I would assume you played for Butch or you where cut. Not beng aprart of the program, associated with DAHA, or MN HOCKEY, it would be very hard to figure out if a rule was broken or a violation occured. If you are a member of DAHA you have a right to the minutes of the association ( MInnesota statute 318.??). If you are not, you are out of luck. Manipulaiton of the rules and breaking of the rules are two different things. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... troll21</A> at: 9/20/05 2:13 pm

hawkeyes100 · Post by **hawkeyes100** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:08 pm

The only time I met Butch was after a game in Grand Rapids and mentioned good game, and thats just by walking by him. I never played for butch. This game needs to stay for these young guys. But the bad side of this sport is to be the best. And yes rules are broken. Having put a forward, Goalie on after Dec 31(6 day grace period like mention)is wrong. Yes I've heard about Carlton to Branierds problems from Superior to Grand Rapids problems also. These like many other teams I've seen play and also told their coaches good games. I will fallow this teams this year and will have an ear open to talk too. But one thing I will stress is Fair play all around and it starts and ends with the coaches. No one is going after DAHA, they have a program to keep going. If something was or is going on I don't think they would allow it(I hope not). troll21 what happened at Brainerd with the smoking you mentioned. Was that directed too me? I hope not never made it there last season. Hoping this year I'll get down to see a game or two there. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... eyes100</A> at: 9/20/05 4:32 pm

troll21 · Post by **troll21** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:14 am

Not directed to you hawks unless you where with DULUth17 in Brainerd? You are of legal age. Seriously, if you are looking to coach call Butch. He needs/wants another assistant. Retirement is in the horizon and he wants an experienced coach to turn the team over too. Keep in mind, the time and commitement you need. Run two tournaments, travel arrangements, games, and find players to fill a team. Good luck. If you come south or when I come north for his tournament, we will have to hook up for a beverage and discuss Jr. Gold hockey.

hawkeyes100 · Post by **hawkeyes100** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:36 am

No I've never been at brainerd at all.What happened at there Brainerd? Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... eyes100</A> at: 9/21/05 12:37 pm

duluth17 · Post by **duluth17** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:42 pm

I couldn't tell you. I wasn't there. Troll, yet again, is making an assumption that I was.

troll21 · Post by **troll21** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:21 pm

Duluth17 - I assumed you had something to do with the Brainerd episode because you stated: Quote:4.) Tries to suspend players from opposing teams for “off ice” issues that are none of his business. If you where/are a coach, why would you be upset when a fellow colleague advised you of inappropriate behavior of one of your players? Unfortunately do to the incidents of minors, I will not elaborate.

duluth17 · Post by **duluth17** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:42 pm

There was more than one off ice issue that didn't have to do with Brainerd. As for the incident that I am refering to, it was minor inident and was not during a game. The individual was reprimanded by his team officials and other authorities having jurisdiction. Butch had no business in this matter but he wanted the player suspended for the rest of the year. It was handled properly and it was none of his business. He wanted the kid off the team for personal gain. I have no problem with players being held accountable. It's supposed to be the same or coached also.

hawkeyes100 · Post by **hawkeyes100** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:27 am

Duluth17, what happened last year I think we all are waiting for the story.

Suckerpunch · Post by **Suckerpunch** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:15 pm

Troll is very intune with Duluth. I know for a fact that he knows whats going on in the Duluth Jr Gold program. The rest of you are eating crow. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... erpunch</A> at: 10/10/05 2:30 pm

IceProphet07 · Post by **IceProphet07** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:46 pm

I seriously doubt that Butch would try to get someone kicked off a team for "personal gain," i mean the guy has been around the game long enough to know that "personal gain" isnt that prevalent in Jr Gold, no offense to Jr. Gold coaches or players, but it isnt exactly the most prestigious level of competition, most, not all, j-gold players seem to be players who couldn't compete at the H.S. level. Don't get me wrong, I love the Jr Gold level, I think its great. Also I find it funny that Duluth17 hasn't posted since someone asked him about the incident, was it an illegal activity perhaps, an event which isn't talked about because it is so wrong? One last thing, I heard that butch invited some players from the Carlton district from his team last year after they asked him to play, and I also heard that he helped coach the team when the head coach couldn’t be there. If I’m wrong Duluth17 then please enlighten me with your infinite wisdom.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:04 am

This is what I am aware of as of 10/19/05. Cloquet Duluth Grand Rapids Chisholm Bemidji Moorhead all Junior Gold A teams. Regions in Chisholm. Junior Gold B teams - Brainerd & Leech Lake Area. Regions not decided yet.

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