When should an association have to field an A team?

Discussion of Minnesota Youth Hockey

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tunavichy
Posts: 94
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Location: Como area

Post by tunavichy » Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:59 am

I don't care what everyone else wants, Our Pee Wee team scrimmaged Tartan and lost 10-0 but than we played Osseo and were tied 2 -2 going into the third period.

TyrellFashizo
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:26 am

Post by TyrellFashizo » Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:55 pm

Tuna,
which team scrimmaged Tartan? I know the coaches for the peewee teams at Tartan and they didn't play Como yet. How did you loose 10-0?
Maybe you should sober up before you get on line.

tunavichy
Posts: 94
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Location: Como area

Post by tunavichy » Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:52 am

My drinking habits have no bearing here. Oh! by the way we got our way and the district director (TOM MIckus) bought in we are a B team at Pee wees.

SLP/SW Coach
Posts: 149
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Post by SLP/SW Coach » Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:09 am

Reasonably so, The D1 director was at the Washburn scrimmage, as was I.
I saw only about 20 mins of it, but YES, Como should probably be playing B level hockey. Washburn dominated that game. If I remember correctly, the score at one time was 7-1 and Como was going against their own #2 goalie. I think Como had 2 shots on goal for the 20 mins I saw. Playing B was probably the right decision.
I just kinda feel bad for the 2-3 players that could probably compete at an A level. They won't get pushed/challenged to get that much better, in games. The Como Coaches really need to challenge the top level players during practice and help them get better. Cause the other players on their own team sure won't be able to challenge them much.Those couple players are going to suffer for the good of the rest.

Johnsonpres
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Post by Johnsonpres » Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:52 am

I understand what everyone is saying but maybe the same thing happens to our Johnson team against SW/SLP, Highland,or Washburn. So does that mean we run to "B" like Como did last year and win the league and end up in 8th ranking like tunavich said or do we take our lumps. It could happen!!

SWPrez
Posts: 370
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:48 am

Johnson Prez

Post by SWPrez » Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:04 pm

I don't see a problem with the move to "B" for Como. If they got shelled by Washburn by 10 goals or something like that, I don't think they would find themselves fairing much better against the other "A" competition in District 1.

Two years ago, we fielded only "B" level teams at PW and Bantams. I believe that both teams won districts.

Last year's Como team was a "B" team with the exception of two skaters and their goalie - all nice players. Their top kid would net virtually 2-3 or more goals a game. He was a strong Peewee A player if he played at any District 1 program - and the unfortunate thing was he could turn it up a notch and totally dominate a game. I assume these three players moved on to Bantams. Without those three, Como would have been middle of the district at the "B" level from what I saw.

When an individual kid is misplaced it does a big disservice to the kid and the competitive spirit of opposing teams (might as well put a high school player out there as he would dominate just the same). When a team is completely misplaced (as it appears Como would be), it does nothing for the development of the kids and is a waste of an hour of ice for both teams that have to play the game --- not to mention their self-esteem.

This was Southwest's dilemma two years ago (as well as Saint Louis Park who were planning to field NO teams at the "A" level one year ago). Our top "A" players were leaving for "AAA" (we lost 5 or 6 two years ago...only one this year), our top bantams were being picked off by our weak high school teams, we were losing 3-4 bantams to Blakes Bantam B program, and we were progressively losing ground on developing our programs as a result.

As policy, we also refuse waivers to other associations unless we do not have room for a player on our lowest playing team at that level. When they ask to waive...the answer is there is no 'free agency'. You need to move if you don't want to play here. I have talked with Como's prez and it sounds like they and Johnson have the same issues --- just refuse to waive as an association policy (this is also Washburns policy). This may also strengthen your numbers.

Yes, some team needs to be at the top and the bottom. However, if I was getting destroyed every time I went to the rink and my team was clearly misplaced...I would just phone in the forfeits and go practice rather than waste an hour of ice. I have to support Como's move on this one. =D>

Johnsonpres
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Post by Johnsonpres » Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:30 pm

I like what you say about waivers but when you have like Highland waivering players in from all over to get a step up at Cretin you lose players. It would be best for everyone if there were no waivers but the District needs to agree on a policy. If they don't do something soon Como and Johnson will be were Southwest was two years ago. The rich get richer and the poor fade away. I think thats what some folks want.

TyrellFashizo
Posts: 139
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Post by TyrellFashizo » Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:46 pm

2. RESIDENCY RULE A. Youth hockey players must play within their “natural hockey community” as defined by Minnesota Hockey. If a player desires to play on a team outside of the players “natural hockey community”, the player must obtain written permission (waiver release) from the president of the governing body of BOTH the releasing and receiving organization and receive the approval of the cognizant district
director(s). A player that participates without a necessary waiver is considered an ineligible player. A waiver must be obtained before a player can participate outside their natural hockey community. A player that registers or participates with their natural hockey association cannot participate with any other hockey association without a waiver. The Minnesota Department of Children, Family and Learning Open Enrollment program does not affect this rule.

I think it is rather selfish for an assocaition to hold kids from leaving just because they think the team will be better for them.

SWprez, this sounds like something that needs to be taken up in the thread about increasing hockey enrollment in the inner city. I think your sw/slp coach already started it.

TyrellFashizo
Posts: 139
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Re: Johnson Prez

Post by TyrellFashizo » Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:53 pm

This was Southwest's dilemma two years ago (as well as Saint Louis Park who were planning to field NO teams at the "A" level one year ago). Our top "A" players were leaving for "AAA" (we lost 5 or 6 two years ago...only one this year), our top bantams were being picked off by our weak high school teams, we were losing 3-4 bantams to Blakes Bantam B program, and we were progressively losing ground on developing our programs as a result.

As policy, we also refuse waivers to other associations unless we do not have room for a player on our lowest playing team at that level. When they ask to waive...the answer is there is no 'free agency'. You need to move if you don't want to play here. I have talked with Como's prez and it sounds like they and Johnson have the same issues --- just refuse to waive as an association policy (this is also Washburns policy). This may also strengthen your numbers.


Why are your kids leaving?????
Sounds like waivers aren't the problem.

Johnsonpres
Posts: 172
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Post by Johnsonpres » Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:54 pm

Yes waivers are a problem, In the past if an association declined to give a waiver all the district director has to do is sign it and over ride the association. I know the new district director wants to get all of the association presidents together and decide which way it will be. Now day kids go to different parts of the city for specialty schools and become friends with people from other areas and decide to play together. Sure some don't like certain coaches or certain kids on the same team but these people have to learn in life you can't always get what you want.

SWPrez
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Tyrell

Post by SWPrez » Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:14 pm

Tyrell,

Waiver requests are few and far between this year because we have a program that provides for all skill levels --- which we didn't have a few years ago.

Kids aren't leaving our program anymore for AAA or any other reason - both parents and kids are pretty charged up about what we have done with SLP in creating MPLS*Park. This year, we might even be able to retain some of our top bantams.

We have also worked a little harder on getting kids into the game so that we don't have numbers issues down the road (we should have 45-50 Mighty Mites this year). These aren't Edina numbers, but if we can get 100-150 kids between Park and Southwest trying out at a level five to six years from now, I believe we can put some very serious teams on the ice.

I have received a few requests for waivers for SPA kids to go skate at Highland and they have been turned down. I have received requests from parents that weren't happy with what team their kid got placed on...turned down. Again, no 'free agency' in youth hockey is our policy.

54fighting
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SWPrez

Post by 54fighting » Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:24 pm

I am confused. At one point you say that it is a disservice to the skater if he is grossly misplaced. And then in the next paragraph you say you have a blanket "No Waiver" policy regardless of talent.

I have a hard time with the idea of telling a skater and his or her family that even though you may be one of the best players in your district, we own your rights and you are going play on our B team or not at all.

As a former president of a small association I always tried to ask myself, how can I get the maximum number of skaters playing at the level they will get the most enjoyment out of the game. Sometimes that meant trying to combine with another association, sometimes it meant going A on our own, and other times it meant that a skater or two would be best served by waivering to a place that had a better fit for him/her.

SWPrez
Posts: 370
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:48 am

54 Fighting....nice catch

Post by SWPrez » Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:16 pm

54Fighting...thanks for catching that.

That is where our waiver policy does have an exception. If we do not provide a team at the skill level for the player, we would waive out.

If we decided in the past to have a "B" team, we allowed our "A" level players to waive out if they desired because we did not provide "product" for them.

We would do the same if a "C" level player wanted out to play "C" elsewhere and we didn't have a "C" team for them to play on.

So yes, you are correct in your observation of my comments - we have no waivers unless we do not provide product for that player. We would release an "A" level player under our policy if we were only fielding a "B" team. swprez

TyrellFashizo
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Post by TyrellFashizo » Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:16 pm

What level do you coach?

lowlyIQ
Posts: 29
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Location: North Saint Paul

Post by lowlyIQ » Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:26 pm

I think he is the "B" pee wee coach at SW/Slp and like you Tyrell at Johnson. Maybe you guys should make side bets when you play each other like loser buys dinner and a drink.

TyrellFashizo
Posts: 139
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Post by TyrellFashizo » Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:36 pm

Do I know you?

I don't think that is a very nice thing to comment about.

Do you gamble too much?

lowlyIQ
Posts: 29
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Location: North Saint Paul

Post by lowlyIQ » Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:41 pm

I think that you guys are the gamblers. Sw/Slp coach seems to be the one that wants to bet. If it was me I would bet that NSP would end up lower in the standings than White Bear. But thats in our district.

Gildan2036
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Location: East St. Paul

Post by Gildan2036 » Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:43 pm

I'm returning to the reason I started this thread:

Does Como have what they need to be at the A level for Peewee's??

How can Edison have an A team, but Como not?????

Sounds like weak minded thinking.

tunavichy
Posts: 94
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Location: Como area

Post by tunavichy » Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:59 pm

Just face the facts most of the people holding this district together are from Come so we get what we want. The other half are Highland people and they have all the numbers due to the lack of a waiver policy in our district.

TyrellFashizo
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:26 am

Post by TyrellFashizo » Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:08 pm

I would agree with that,
i've seen how johnson works from the inside and all I can say is slim shady and I don't mean EMNEM.

tunavichy
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:43 pm
Location: Como area

Post by tunavichy » Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:20 pm

Rumor here is that you Tyrell are now the top player in the Johnson game.
It's going to be enjoyable finally getting someone there at Johnson that will get something done.

TyrellFashizo
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:26 am

Post by TyrellFashizo » Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:31 pm

I'm not a player in this at all anymore. I stopped coaching at that level, didn't you hear the news>

barado23
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:44 am

Post by barado23 » Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:36 pm

You should be honest Tyrell, you were just never a player.

Up nort, we didnt talk aboot stuf like this, we settle it on the rink.

TyrellFashizo
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:26 am

Post by TyrellFashizo » Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:40 pm

Well spoken there barado23

Put the foil on

tunavichy
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:43 pm
Location: Como area

Post by tunavichy » Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:43 pm

Tyrell, You mean the news that your helping with goalies at Johnson High? That came out a while ago when I was at Strauss and that was the funniest thing I ever heard. Moose now has your nose so far up his b-tt and you took it hook line and sinker. When you two are together you can't tell there are two seperate beings.

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